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[Spacecowboy77]

First leaked review from spanish magazine PlayMania -

Graphic: 88
Sound: 90
Diversion: 92
Duration: 86
OVERALL: 90 out of 100

They say the game is 10-15 hours long. not bad!

Ref - http://baziwood.ir/1392/11/26/first-thief-reboot-review-score/

 

[Jb]

I'll pick it up at some point, whether it's at full price of for 20 bones later in the year will depend on how open and varied the game ends up being.

 

[murgo]

So let's talk difficulty mods. Since Thief may turn out to be a single-playthrough type of game, I'm going to try to knock out as many achievements in that run as possible. One achievement is for beating the game with a certain amount of difficulty points, and while we don't know the point values for each mod yet, I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts on which will enhance or hinder the quintessential "Thief" experience. Here are mine below:

Actually, we DO know the point values for those options They showed all difficulty options in a video last month (it's in the OP as well). I just watched it and made a list:

• Chapter Saves Only – 180
• No Focus – 50
• Stealth Takedowns Only – 50
• No Reticle – 30
  
• Speciality Arrows Only – 50
• No Food or Poppies – 100
• Zero Damage – 60
• Expensive Resources – 70
• Slowed Movement – 45
  
• Iron Man – 250
• No Upgrades – 100
• No Kills or Knockouts – 170
• No Alerts - 145
  

No idea if those values will be exactly the same in the retail version, but this'll give us an idea. One trophy will require a playthrough with 700 or more points.

 

[Shinta]

Nice OT. I'm getting this as soon as I get a PS4. Probably this summer.

 

[glaurung]

Actually, we DO know the point values for those options They showed all difficulty options in a video last month (it's in the OP as well). I just watched it and made a list:

• Chapter Saves Only – 180
• No Focus – 50
• Stealth Takedowns Only – 50
• No Reticle – 30
• Speciality Arrows Only – 50
• No Food or Poppies – 100
• Zero Damage – 60
• Expensive Resources – 70
• Slowed Movement – 45
• Iron Man – 250
• No Upgrades – 100
• No Kills or Knockouts – 170
• No Alerts - 145
  

No idea if those values will be exactly the same in the retail version, but this'll give us an idea. One trophy will require a playthrough with 700 or more points.

That total comes up to 1300.

700 shouldn't be too hard.

 

[Alkastelca]

I know some already have the game, can you answer this questions about replayability please ?


Is there a new game + ?
Since you're upgrading Garrett skills trough the story.... can you replay missions with fully upgraded/unlocked skills ?

Any word on Challenge Mode (it's a separate mode in the menu) ? What is it ?
I assume it's missions based on locations from campaign but with different criteria ? Pre-order Bank Heist dlc and any upcoming dlc is probably listed here ?

Thanks

 

[Dawg]

That total comes up to 1300.

700 shouldn't be too hard.

As long as you don't need the 'Chapter Saves Only – 180' bonus, it doesn't seem that bad. You can get past an enemy and save. It's one of those save systems where it loads the exact location of where you saved.

 

[Moff]

Actually, we DO know the point values for those options They showed all difficulty options in a video last month (it's in the OP as well). I just watched it and made a list:

• Chapter Saves Only – 180
• No Focus – 50
• Stealth Takedowns Only – 50
• No Reticle – 30
  
• Speciality Arrows Only – 50
• No Food or Poppies – 100
• Zero Damage – 60
• Expensive Resources – 70
• Slowed Movement – 45
  
• Iron Man – 250
• No Upgrades – 100
• No Kills or Knockouts – 170
• No Alerts - 145
  

No idea if those values will be exactly the same in the retail version, but this'll give us an idea. One trophy will require a playthrough with 700 or more points.

I dont understand, is this only achievement related? or do those options give mor XP or anything in the game?

although I expect the worst, I'm really looking forward to this game, I really hope I can unlock it on the 25th via VPN.

 

[murgo]

I dont understand, is this only achievement related? or do those options give mor XP or anything in the game?

although I expect the worst, I'm really looking forward to this game, I really hope I can unlock it on the 25th via VPN.

Apparently you get a higher score multiplier and get better Leaderboard positions the harder you play.

 

[G_Berry]

So buying this shit on my PS4.

 

[Witchfinder General]

I hope Nixxes come out and itemize the specific graphical enhancements going in to the PC version. They've already stated "higher res textures and shadows" on their website but nothing more. I remember just before Tomb Raider came out they did a Q & A where they answered a ton of questions on the port.

 

[Moff]

Apparently you get a higher score multiplier and get better Leaderboard positions the harder you play.

hm, a bit similiar to hitman absolution, I liked that

 

[Remachinate]

No because if its anything like Hitman Absolution, the game will be designed around the focus tested xray vision and other added game assists, and thus if you turn those off you are fucked. Theres nothing else in the game that conveys or explains what you need to do because the game is designed around those components. They are not optional in the grand scheme.

There is an achievement for never using it once. I'd like to think that even if the team didn't capture the essence of old Thief, they're not releasing a broken mess with impossible achievements.

It's worth noting that focus essentially works like SIMPLE ART DESIGN did in the first game--that is, it breaks down interactive and non-interactive objects. In Thief, they simply didn't have stuff. So of, say, three objects in a room, that one object you saw was PROBABLY something you could interact. Highlighting basically lets them increase graphical fidelity while still maintaining the "oh, it's really obvious I can touch that thing" of the original games. I've never had a problem with it, and I kinda think anyone who does isn't being particularly thoughtful.

Didn't I read that focus had more uses than simply highlighting stuff in a room? Seeing enemy footsteps behind doors, slowing down time--these seem more like crutches than compensation for a more elaborate art design.

Actually, we DO know the point values for those options They showed all difficulty options in a video last month (it's in the OP as well). I just watched it and made a list:

Thanks for that. Annoyingly, I get to 695 with the options I chose before No Reticle, so I guess that'll be enabled too.

 

[IcyEyes]

I don't need any review of this game !!! I already love it !

 

[SJRB]

This.

I thought about doing a shoutout to Derrick for a moment, but I decided to keep the OT as neutral and informative as possible. The personal opinion of Derrick, me or any other user is irrelevant for an OT.

Not to mention I have no interest in fanning the flames of biased hate towards this game even higher.

 

[Cave Johnson]

Devs "dumb" the AI down:

Earlier builds of upcoming Thief originally had AI that was so intelligent the engineers had to dumb it down so that players stood a chance.

That's according to game director Nic Cantin, who claims that guards were too realistic and they'd find protagonist Garrett without much trouble.

For the sake of keeping Thief a fun experience, the engineers had to tone things down slightly.

"The engineers were very proud," Cantin told ArabicGamers. "With the AI they did something that was really good, but when you were trying to distract a guard in that direction for example, they were so intelligent he'd anticipate you and find you and there'd be a big fight.

"So it was too realistic at some points and we had to balance those elements and spend a lot of time with AI to make sure there is no anticipation.

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. God, just listening to these devs are already pissing me off. It's realistic because the guard anticipated you? Seems like an auto-target on you the moment you initiate action that has been seen in so many AI-deprived based games. And they consider that realistic? Spare me.

Even if the AI is too "realistic", the game should give enough player-agency to the character to offset the balance. Heck, even the basic inventory of Thief is enough to put you in an advantage.

So let me get this straight: They believe that, for the "hardcore" fans reservations; disabling features while requiring them to play in the most restrictive way possible...... is far more fair than their "realistic" AI.

Are they for real?

"It's not about being hyper-realistic, it's about being credible but it's still a game."

No, it's you trying to take away player experience in favor of your typical AAA set-piece avenue because you can't resist. I was giving the benefit of the doubt despite it's intended change in design but this kind PR dissuaded any reservations I have for this game.

 

[KojiKnight]

Mantle support out of the box right? Should be a good test bed since Swarm is iffy as a benchmark and BF4 seems to lack parity (still?) between graphic quality on mantle and non-mantle.

 

[SkyTurnsRed]

Devs "dumb" the AI down:



Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. God, just listening to these devs are already pissing me off. It's realistic because the guard anticipated you? Seems like an auto-target on you the moment you initiate action that has been seen in so many AI-deprived based games. And they consider that realistic? Spare me.

Even if the AI is too "realistic", the game should give enough player-agency to the character to offset the balance. Heck, even the basic inventory of Thief is enough to put you in an advantage.

So let me get this straight: They believe that, for the "hardcore" fans reservations; disabling features while requiring them to play in the most restrictive way possible...... is far more fair than their "realistic" AI.

Are they for real?



No, it's you trying to take away player experience in favor of your typical AAA set-piece avenue because you can't resist. I was giving the benefit of the doubt despite it's intended change in design but this kind PR dissuaded any reservations I have for this game.

To be fair, it's not like Thief II's AI were geniuses. I played through that for the first time a month ago and some of the AI were absolutely brain dead.

 

[Akira83]

Devs "dumb" the AI down:



Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. God, just listening to these devs are already pissing me off. It's realistic because the guard anticipated you? Seems like an auto-target on you the moment you initiate action that has been seen in so many AI-deprived based games. And they consider that realistic? Spare me.

Even if the AI is too "realistic", the game should give enough player-agency to the character to offset the balance. Heck, even the basic inventory of Thief is enough to put you in an advantage.

So let me get this straight: They believe that, for the "hardcore" fans reservations; disabling features while requiring them to play in the most restrictive way possible...... is far more fair than their "realistic" AI.

Are they for real?



No, it's you trying to take away player experience in favor of your typical AAA set-piece avenue because you can't resist. I was giving the benefit of the doubt despite it's intended change in design but this kind PR dissuaded any reservations I have for this game.

Nostalgia is clouding your judgment . guards in thief 1 and 2 were dumb as rocks

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

To be fair, it's not like Thief II's AI were geniuses. I played through that for the first time a month ago and some of the AI were absolutely brain dead.

Stealth game AI has to be bordering on braindead or the player would never have a chance. Predictable responses, moving in search patterns with obvious blind spots, lack of meaningful coordination other than mobbing the player when spotted, dull senses, inability to look up and extreme short term memory problems. These are tools of the trade for stealth AI design, and thief is not totally innocent of similar crutches.

 

[Moff]

I would even go so far that stealth games need dumb enemies.
they need to reset after a certain time, even if they saw you, wich is completely dumb.
"must have been the wind"

and it probably needs extra effort to make them dumb

 

[Maxwood]

Great OP.

Can't wait! I love everything i've seen so far. Pre-ordered and ready.
That Thief 101 Trailer from a couple of weeks ago was especially hype inducing. I love trailers where they explain some of the game's world and mechanics.

 

[Dawg]

I would even go so far that stealth games need dumb enemies.
they need to reset after a certain time, even if they saw you, wich is completely dumb.
"must have been the wind"

and it probably needs extra effort to make them dumb

They actually say something similar to that in the game, yes.

 

[Cave Johnson]

Nostalgia is clouding your judgment . guards in thief 1 and 2 were dumb as rocks

To be fair, it's not like Thief II's AI were geniuses. I played through that for the first time a month ago and some of the AI were absolutely brain dead.

Just to set the record straight, I only played the original Thief last year. Haven't played Thief 2 yet. So that nostalgia argument goes outside the window.

Secondly, this is a direct criticism to the developers intention of dumbing down the AI and at no point did I make any comparison to the "old" games.

Stealth game AI has to be bordering on braindead or the player would never have a chance. Predictable responses, moving in search patterns with obvious blind spots, lack of meaningful coordination other than mobbing the player when spotted, dull senses, inability to look up and extreme short term memory problems. These are tools of the trade for stealth AI design, and thief is not totally innocent of similar crutches.

To be fair, AI is just all smoke and mirrors. Regardless of how "intelligent" they are, there would always be a blind angle to their instructions.

Let's use Thief as an example:

Thing is, you can have "realistic" AI NPC's that will hunt you down or exhibit tracking ability. But this is where you as a Thief come into play. You have tools of either deterrent or an emergency box (smoke bombs, rope-arrows). No MATTER how good an AI is in the game, he is only limited to what his agency allows.

A normal guard shouldn't be as fast, agile as the "thief" player, meaning you can "break" the AI by utilizing every tool you have at your disposal which is why player-agency is required for simulation type of games.

You can create a variety of NPC's to make up for the disadvantage of one. This forces the player to adjust their tactics on the fly instead of relying on what they're accustomed to. Imagine the AI scenarios that can do what other NPC's couldn't and the combination of both (possibly) can push the player to do drastic attempts to get away.

Thing is, if you're just "Man-who-wants-to-steal" type of game, then I can understand the realistic AI criticisms. But you are a thief - a master one at that. Which means you have skills and abilities that counter any normal, so-called realistic aspects of the game.

It's just talentless developers who don't have have the vision or talent to push through these type of experience that's the problem. If only games weren't restricted by budget, we may actually see a proper evolution of the Thief franchise.

 

[Insane Metal]

I wanna see the reviews/impressions.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Really hoping this is good so I can pick it up and have something new to play. I'm waiting for reviews to drop, though. Any word on embargo?

 

[greatestjediever]

It's just talentless developers who don't have have the vision or talent to push through these type of experience that's the problem. If only games weren't restricted by budget, we may actually see a proper evolution of the Thief franchise.

I understand what you're trying to get at, but seriously? Do you know how hard it is to develop a realistic AI, much less one that is still remotely accessible to a majority of users? Calling developers talentless is a pretty brash statement, unless you've developed your own game engine and AI to accommodate for all these variables you are looking for already.

 

[Alcoholikaust]

will we see a real review before Tuesday? don't want to miss out on that free heist DLC for preordering

 

[twobear]

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. God, just listening to these devs are already pissing me off. It's realistic because the guard anticipated you? Seems like an auto-target on you the moment you initiate action that has been seen in so many AI-deprived based games. And they consider that realistic? Spare me.

Even if the AI is too "realistic", the game should give enough player-agency to the character to offset the balance. Heck, even the basic inventory of Thief is enough to put you in an advantage.

So let me get this straight: They believe that, for the "hardcore" fans reservations; disabling features while requiring them to play in the most restrictive way possible...... is far more fair than their "realistic" AI.

Are they for real?

Actually, it sounds like they made a good call, if I understand it properly. They're basically saying that the 'too good' AI was going to where you fired, say, a noisemaker arrow from rather than where you were firing it to.

In a sense that's more realistic, but it also makes noisemaker arrows nearly pointless. The fun and skill in Thief comes from your being able to manipulate the AI to a point where you can sneak past them, and it sounds as though the changes enable that, because it stops you from getting into constant fights.

 

[murgo]

Thanks for that. Annoyingly, I get to 695 with the options I chose before No Reticle, so I guess that'll be enabled too.

Same here. I don't think aiming will be that hard though.

 

[codhand]

will we see a real review before Tuesday? don't want to miss out on that free heist DLC for preordering

that's how they getcha

 

[petethepanda]

Whoa. I had no idea this was out so soon.

 

[mantidor]

Actually, it sounds like they made a good call, if I understand it properly. They're basically saying that the 'too good' AI was going to where you fired, say, a noisemaker arrow from rather than where you were firing it to.

In a sense that's more realistic, but it also makes noisemaker arrows nearly pointless. The fun and skill in Thief comes from your being able to manipulate the AI to a point where you can sneak past them, and it sounds as though the changes enable that, because it stops you from getting into constant fights.

I don't follow your example, you go to where the noise is coming from, only after you see it's in arrow you would go to where it came from.

I don't see why you have to dumb down the AI, what you need is to give the player more options to overcome the AI, you get spotted but then you have rope arrows and can access inaccesible areas, or you remember that little hole when you first entered the mansion where you can hide, it´s about your items and the opportunities they give you, and the level design, thats the whole point of a Thief game for me.

 

[Hamster Plugin]

Price: $59.99/€59.99 [prices may vary depending on platform of choice]

That Euro price is wrong for all platforms. It's €69.99 on consoles, €49.99 on PC.

EDIT: oops, it is €59.99 on digital. The retail versions are €69.99 though.

 

[thenexus6]

There is a guy on Twitch playing it now I am watching on my PS4.. He's playing like a schmuck but hey game looks good!

 

[Kouichi]

There is a guy on Twitch playing it now I am watching on my PS4.. He's playing like a schmuck but hey game looks good!

Dammit. I want to watch, but I don't want to spoil!

Glad to see it's looking good though.

 

[Alcoholikaust]

that's how they getcha

yeah I know. I figure it was with amazon credit anyways. I'll consider it a wash if it's bad haha

edit:that twitch stream is excellent. looks great!

 

[Moff]

I don't follow your example, you go to where the noise is coming from, only after you see it's in arrow you would go to where it came from.

I don't see why you have to dumb down the AI, what you need is to give the player more options to overcome the AI, you get spotted but then you have rope arrows and can access inaccesible areas, or you remember that little hole when you first entered the mansion where you can hide, it´s about your items and the opportunities they give you, and the level design, thats the whole point of a Thief game for me.

the problem is, if the AI is too smart, or if you have to use items every time, the game will become unforgiving, and that would just lead to a quickload orgy.

thief 1 and 2 were VERY forgiving, on purpose, again my example of guards who chased you, and after 1 minute thought it was only the wind, and follow their old patrol.
I really liked that, it made the games much more enjoyable than any other stealth game.

 

[twobear]

I don't follow your example, you go to where the noise is coming from, only after you see it's in arrow you would go to where it came from.

I don't see why you have to dumb down the AI, what you need is to give the player more options to overcome the AI, you get spotted but then you have rope arrows and can access inaccesible areas, or you remember that little hole when you first entered the mansion where you can hide, it´s about your items and the opportunities they give you, and the level design, thats the whole point of a Thief game for me.

The way I understood it, they're not going to the arrow, seeing it's an arrow, and then looking for you. They're immediately going to the source of the arrow instead of where it's fired, hence 'anticipating' you. That just sounds like it makes the game boring to play, if you're hiding behind a box but as soon as you fire an arrow for distraction they look behind the box instead of where they heard the arrow land.

Honestly I'm not particularly excited about this game, partly because of the gameplay, but largely because they've butchered the setting. But I don't think this is a reason to get mad at the developers.

 

[Dawg]

PS4 controller lighting up (white color) when Garrett is in a place with light is a cool detail in my opinion, they even went as far as to use it in cutscenes.

 

[Big-ass Ramp]

Whoa. I had no idea this was out so soon.

me neither. these under the radar releases always make me question a game's quality. I don't know if that's reasonable or not.

 

[ys45]

As a long time fan of the series I'm Pretty confused about this game I watched the 17 mins (1st mission) video and I kinda like what I saw, if the game is half as good as was Dishonored Il be glad .

Or maybe I'm just desperate to play another Thief game ....
We will see next week (still going to wait for review)

 

[kudoboi]

pre ordered on pc. can't wait

 

[FlyinJ]

Ultimate Thief looks like the way to play... but what's up with "take any damage and the mission is over"?

No Thief game ever had that system...

 

[NHale]

Is there any other game releasing next week? Because I've seen a couple of reviewers tweeting about the game they are reviewing right now and if nothing else is launching next week, it's probably about Thief.

 

[runnin_blue]

It's just talentless developers who don't have have the vision or talent to push through these type of experience that's the problem. If only games weren't restricted by budget, we may actually see a proper evolution of the Thief franchise.

I respect the right for someone to have their own opinion but in saying that, do you realise the stupidity of bagging out a game AND calling it's developers "talentless" before the game has even released and you've even played it?

Wait and play the game son, then if you don't like it, you can have your soapbox back.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

OP is missing the Derrick01 Memorial Seal of Approval

I demand a redo

 

[Cave Johnson]

I understand what you're trying to get at, but seriously? Do you know how hard it is to develop a realistic AI, much less one that is still remotely accessible to a majority of users? Calling developers talentless is a pretty brash statement, unless you've developed your own game engine and AI to accommodate for all these variables you are looking for already.

But that's why I pointed to that specific argument: (check my post at #116)

Earlier builds of upcoming Thief originally had AI that was so intelligent the engineers had to dumb it down so that players stood a chance.

That's according to game director Nic Cantin, who claims that guards were too realistic and they'd find protagonist Garrett without much trouble.

See, right there they admitted for developing this so-called "realistic AI" but then dropped it because excuses. Which is funny considering they could've reserved that for the hardcore difficulty... but no. "It's disabling HUD and highlights for you buddy, that's the way it's supposed to be. #dealwithit"

Actually, it sounds like they made a good call, if I understand it properly. They're basically saying that the 'too good' AI was going to where you fired, say, a noisemaker arrow from rather than where you were firing it to.

In a sense that's more realistic, but it also makes noisemaker arrows nearly pointless.

It really depends on how you apply it. You can go to the extreme where the AI is fully aware of it's surroundings and still make the game work, provided you are given the tools necessary. In my opinion gameplay comes first. Work the mechanics - then push the AI to the degree that doesn't exceed your player agency. The fact the game is designed for stealth playthrough gives developers more leeway than say your average shooter.

Realistic in this case is all relative. We have realistic visuals (check the Order: 1886) but it still has some surreal aspects to it that makes sense to the game. AI is no different, you're only presenting challenge to the player not replicating another "second life" video game.

The fun and skill in Thief comes from your being able to manipulate the AI to a point where you can sneak past them, and it sounds as though the changes enable that, because it stops you from getting into constant fights.

Exactly, this works in many examples such as Metal Gear or Splinter Cell. The thing is, how FAR you can push the AI above what the previous gen is capable of before it breaks the game. TLOU was supposed to be this game, unfortunately, even they fall short of such expectations. Hell, even the original E3 Bioshock: Infinite trailer showcased some really diverse AI (which never made it to the game).

This only highlights the real issue in game design in general. It goes to show how AI is significantly ignored by AAA studios in favor for more flashy visuals. The original Thief's AI is dated in comparison but that is an old old game. It makes no sense to use that as a benchmark since it's clearly limited by their technology at that time, but you know what? It still delivered despite it's setbacks. The tech of today doesn't have that kind of restrictions back then so I'm actually surprised to see developers "pull back" on realistic AI when they have nothing to show for it.

 

[ced]

There is a guy on Twitch playing it now I am watching on my PS4.. He's playing like a schmuck but hey game looks good!

I'm watching here and there, can't believe this guy is playing with the objective marker on. Actually it's a fucking shame they are in there in the first place, but at least we can disable that stuff.

 

[garath]

Damn. I had no idea it was so close. I need to get this.