Support NeoGAF

[dripdripsplash]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middl...h-with-israeli-troops-201462243230205740.html

Palestinian dead in clash with Israeli troops

West Bank man is third to die in clashes as Israel continues its operation to find three missing teenagers.

Israeli forces have shot and killed a Palestinian from the occupied West Bank during a confrontation, as Israel steps up its operation to find three missing teenagers.

Ahmad Sa'd Khalid, a 27-year-old resident of al-Ein refugee camp northwest of Nablus, died of four gunshots overnight when Israeli soldiers fired at stone-throwing residents, local sources told Al Jazeera on Sunday.

The latest death brings to three the number of confirmed fatalities since Israel started its operation to find the missing teens. A fourth shooting death was reported in Ramallah, but the circumstances behind the incident remains unclear.

Another Palestinian, who was shot in the head is in a critical condition.

Israel has said its West Bank operation is twofold - to find Gil-Ad Shaer and US-Israeli national Naftali Fraenkel, both aged 16, and Eyal Yifrah, 19, who went missing near an Israeli settlement on June 13, and to deal a substantial blow to Hamas.

Hamas has neither denied nor confirmed involvement in the disappearance of the youths.

Shortly after the Israeli troops withdrew, angry Palestinians reportedly attacked a police station, chanting against security coordination. The Palestinian Authority officers fired warning shots injuring two other Palestinians, witnesses told Al Jazeera.

Clashes also erupted in Ramallah, leaving at least 11 Palestinians wounded.

'Collective punishment'

Before dawn, Israel carried out air strikes on four sites in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip after armed groups launched three rockets from the territory into Israel. No casualties were reported on either side.

On Saturday, Israel sent more troops into the occupied West Bank. Its military said it arrested 10 Palestinians and that about 1,350 sites in the West Bank had been searched so far and more than 330 Palestinians detained.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has condemned the kidnapping but said the Israeli military sweep amount to collective punishment.

An Israeli military spokeswoman said the soldiers found "electronic devices and magnetic media used for terrorism" that she said belonged to Hamas, without going into further detail.

Israel has also targeted welfare organisations it accuses of aiding Hamas. Soldiers raided 30 such institutions on Thursday and 15 more on Saturday, a military spokesman said.

Campaign group the Palestinian Prisoners Club said the army had arrested 37 people on Saturday.

.

 

[Betty]

Seems those three teenagers have been found dead.

 

[Randam]

Now this will start even more so

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middl...h-with-israeli-troops-201462243230205740.html

Hamas has neither denied nor confirmed involvement in the disappearance of the youths.

Seems those three teenagers have been found dead.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Hamas was responsible, a claim the Palestinian militant group has denied.

hmmm.
I smell riots ah comin'.

 

[ShinHayase]

This will get more dirty, real fast.

 

[C4Lukins]

So I tried to search for it. Where is the Amjad thread about the kidnapping of three Jews?

I know that they have been murdered now, but I just want to read up on the initial concern for their lives.

 

[Dryk]

The Israeli government sure is quick to play into the hands of whoever did this and come down hard on the Palestinians. Bad idea.

 

[DrForester]

NYT piece on it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/world/middleeast/Israel-missing-teenagers.html

Bit I found interesting.

The crisis has weakened President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority, who condemned the kidnapping and deployed his security forces to cooperate with Israel’s hunt. Hamas leaders ridiculed Mr. Abbas as a traitor, and a Palestinian mob smashed four of the authority’s police cars and stormed its police station in Ramallah’s central square. Israel, meanwhile, said Mr. Abbas’s words were meaningless unless he severed the pact with Hamas.

 

[m_shortpants]

Israel has launched airstrikes on Gaza. The Palestinian people will pay for this, unfortunately.

 

[dude]

My heart is with all 9 dead and their families in this incident. Also with all the detainees, arrested, mourners...
This is a horrible situation and one that reminds you of the madness of this place.

 

[RiZ III]

Sad on both sides. I have little sympathy for the settlers in general, but it breaks my heart knowing that these kids were picked up and executed like that. It's sick. Also sad to know that so many innocent people are being imprisoned right now including minors who had nothing to do with this and the fact that Israel is most likely going to go on a killing spree now bombing Haza indiscriminately.

 

[fallagin]

NYT piece on it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/world/middleeast/Israel-missing-teenagers.html

Bit I found interesting.

Oh geeze, this guy is getting fucked from both sides.

 

[Dryk]

Israel has launched airstrikes on Gaza. The Palestinian people will pay for this, unfortunately.

Bomb enough people and I guess you'll kill the culprits eventually!

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

so im gonna throw on conspiracy hat and say neither hamas, israel, or abbas is in on this.

what purpose does killing 3 boys do except incite Israel?

This must be the work of a 4th actor. one who benefits from the continual israel/palestinian conflict

 

[ramuh]

Bomb enough people and I guess you'll kill the culprits eventually!

Well. As the Israel Government, you think they would have to something. The problem is the risk of it spiraling out of control leading to more kidnappings, bombings and retaliatory killings on both sides. The Middle East has so many problems going on.

 

[dude]

so im gonna throw on conspiracy hat and say neither hamas, israel, or abbas is in on this.

what purpose does killing 3 boys do except incite Israel?

This must be the work of a 4th actor. one who benefits from the continual israel/palestinian conflict

This was a local initiative in Hebron, probably of a local Hamas cell - unconnected with any of the four "main" Hamas heads. The killing was probably unplanned as it would be more profitable to keep them alive in order to exchange them for prisoners (see Gilad Shalit.) The three called the police minutes after the kidnapping and were murdered minutes later - The culprits probably got scared by the call and decided to change course and kill them after that.

 

[m_shortpants]

so im gonna throw on conspiracy hat and say neither hamas, israel, or abbas is in on this.

what purpose does killing 3 boys do except incite Israel?

This must be the work of a 4th actor. one who benefits from the continual israel/palestinian conflict

Well, it prolongs peace, which means Israel can continue building settlements unimpeded. But they would be doing that anyway, peace talks won't stop it.

Well. As the Israel Government, you think they would have to something. The problem is the risk of it spiraling out of control leading to more kidnappings, bombings and retaliatory killings on both sides. The Middle East has so many problems going on.

Collective punishment and disproportionate response do not aid any situation. It's sad. Both sides will do anything to be able to continuously demonize the other.

 

[Dryk]

Well, it prolongs peace, which means Israel can continue building settlements unimpeded. But they would be doing that anyway, peace talks won't stop it

The housing minister has already called for increased construction activities. Blaming Hamas so quickly with no basis also says to me that they're more than happy to escalate this situation and kill innocent people.

Every time Israel tries to claim that they're better than everyone else in the region I just laugh

 

[squidyj]

so im gonna throw on conspiracy hat and say neither hamas, israel, or abbas is in on this.

what purpose does killing 3 boys do except incite Israel?

This must be the work of a 4th actor. one who benefits from the continual israel/palestinian conflict

Clearly Obama ordered the hit.

 

[Enron]

so im gonna throw on conspiracy hat and say neither hamas, israel, or abbas is in on this.

what purpose does killing 3 boys do except incite Israel?

This must be the work of a 4th actor. one who benefits from the continual israel/palestinian conflict

Why does Hamas fire rockets into Israel? Why does Hamas do anything to Israel at all? What is the purpose except to incite israel? That's exactly the purpose.

 

[ramuh]

Why does Hamas fire rockets into Israel? Why does Hamas do anything to Israel at all? What is the purpose except to incite israel? That's exactly the purpose.

Probably because they advocating no peace with Israel? Who knows. Maybe after the Hamas-Famas split they saw their coffers were running dry and need international attention. Bellicose actions encourage international ones.

 

[AAK]

Wow @ the retaliation, this is some judge, jury, executioner shit:

https://twitter.com/halazzouni/status/483790573233770496

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

Wow @ the retaliation, this is some judge, jury, executioner shit:

https://twitter.com/halazzouni/status/483790573233770496

You do realise that completely separately to these brutal murders, rockets have been falling over Israel from Gaza on pretty much a daily basis over the past weeks? And that Israel has a duty to protect its people?

Also want to add that the killing of innocents, through purpose or neglect, and even more shocking in the case of minors, is never justified. Hopefully Israelis will bear this in mind too as they plan their response.

 

[m_shortpants]

Wow @ the retaliation, this is some judge, jury, executioner shit:

https://twitter.com/halazzouni/status/483790573233770496

Like I said above, collective punishment and disproportionate response. This has always been Israeli policy.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

Like I said above, collective punishment and disproportionate response. This has always been Israeli policy.

So would murdering 3 Palestinian teenagers being a good proportional response? Firstly as mentioned above, air strikes are often used as responses to rockets aimed at Israel, many of which have been fired in recent days and weeks. Secondly, these strikes target military facilities and tunnels used for smuggling weapons. Thirdly you have no evidence that these strikes are punishing civilians - despite the fact Hamas purposefully carry out their activities in the heart of civilian areas, civilian casualties are surprisingly rare and the most recent air strikes apparently resulted in no casualties (Hamas themselves said 4 Palestinians were treated for minor injuries, and they never distinguish their own members from civilians unless they have an opportunity to parade the body of a dead child in front of the cameras). Finally, this is a war, just not a traditional one, and then entire concept of proportionate response in war is flawed and unrealistic.

 

[m_shortpants]

So would murdering 3 Palestinian teenagers being a good proportional response? Firstly as mentioned above, air strikes are often used as responses to rockets aimed at Israel, many of which have been fired in recent days and weeks. Secondly, these strikes target military facilities and tunnels used for smuggling weapons. Thirdly you have no evidence that these strikes are punishing civilians - despite the fact Hamas purposefully carry out their activities in the heart of civilian areas, civilian casualties are surprisingly rare and the most recent air strikes apparently resulted in no casualties (Hamas themselves said 4 Palestinians were treated for minor injuries, and they never distinguish their own members from civilians unless they have an opportunity to parade the body of a dead child in front of the cameras). Finally, this is a war, just not a traditional one, and then entire concept of proportionate response in war is flawed and unrealistic.

Lol, it's not a war when one side is shooting metal cans and the other is using artillery and air strikes.

It's like shooting someone with a shotgun after they attacked you with a plastic spork.

 

[dude]

Apparently the Palestinian death count in the West Bank after tonight is 9. Not clear yet what's the situation in Gaza.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Sad on both sides. I have little sympathy for the settlers in general, but it breaks my heart knowing that these kids were picked up and executed like that.

Two of the three kids came from inside the Green Line but don't let that stop you from naming them settlers who deserved to die.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

Lol, it's not a war when one side is shooting metal cans and the other is using artillery and air strikes.

It's like shooting someone with a shotgun after they attacked you with a plastic spork.

Those 'metal cans' you are laughing about have also killed children, but you pretty much seem a disgraceful human being and I'm not entirely sure why I'm even wasting my time replying.

 

[PopeReal]

Feel bad for those teenagers. Must have been awful.

Feel bad for the Palestian civilians who didn't do anything and are paying the price.

 

[wedward]

Apache helicopters and fighter jets vs RPGs.

Seems fair.

 

[Tactics18]

Lol, it's not a war when one side is shooting metal cans and the other is using artillery and air strikes.

It's like shooting someone with a shotgun after they attacked you with a plastic spork.

It wasn't metal cans that blew off the roof and the top floors of a 20 storey building in my neighbourhood.

 

[Dead Man]

Israel needs to just admit it will not be happy until they control all the Palestinian lands, just round them up and ship them off or something. At least they would be honest then.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Like I said above, collective punishment and disproportionate response. This has always been Israeli policy.

I fail to see how targeting 34 terror bases in response to terrorists murdering 3 children for being Jewish (never mind the endless barrage of indiscriminate rocket fire) is "disproportionate".

Apparently the Palestinian death count in the West Bank after tonight is 9. Not clear yet what's the situation in Gaza.

The Arab killed was shot after throwing a grenade at soldiers arresting Hamas terrorists. I'd say he had it coming.

Apache helicopters and fighter jets vs RPGs.

Seems fair.

Why should Israel feel sorry about this?

Israel needs to just admit it will not be happy until they control all the Palestinian lands, just round them up and ship them off or something. At least they would be honest then.

Dead Man needs to just admit he really doesn't care about the three murdered and mutilated school kids and will take just about any opportunity to throw blame on Israel.

 

[Bronetta]

The Arab killed was shot after throwing a grenade at soldiers arresting Hamas terrorists. I'd say he had it coming

Do you have evidence to prove this?

 

[Dead Man]

Dead Man needs to just admit he really doesn't care about the three murdered and mutilated school kids and will take just about any opportunity to throw blame on Israel.

Try again, but stay angry, it's cute.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Do you have evidence to prove this?

Yes

Try again, but stay angry, it's cute.

Glad you can take such a jovial attitude about such a serious incident. Speaks volumes of your character.

 

[Katsa]

Apache helicopters and fighter jets vs RPGs.

Seems fair.

Like when Europeans massacred the native Americans in what we call now United States, right? Gun powders vs arrows?

 

[dude]

Yes

Military report, not very trustworthy, probably a "kastah" (covering their ass.)
Also, a month a half old Palestinian infant was injured, did he also throw a grenade?

 

[Jimothy]

You do realise that completely separately to these brutal murders, rockets have been falling over Israel from Gaza on pretty much a daily basis over the past weeks? And that Israel has a duty to protect its people?

Also want to add that the killing of innocents, through purpose or neglect, and even more shocking in the case of minors, is never justified. Hopefully Israelis will bear this in mind too as they plan their response.

This is what happens when you push a people to absolute desperation like the Israelis have been doing to the Palestinians since 1948. What's been going on is ethnic cleansing, straight up. You can't expect people to act rationally when they've been brutalized for decades.

 

[Kiraly]

GAF is always so one-sided, even though both parties are beyond shit.

 

[Dead Man]

Glad you can take such a jovial attitude about such a serious incident. Speaks volumes of your character.

Jovial attitude? Do you have reading comprehension issues? You love the ad hominems though, don't you? Keep going, it'll be fun to see how long it takes for you to actually make an argument that is not just attempts to insult me.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

This is what happens when you push a people to absolute desperation like the Israelis have been doing to the Palestinians since 1948. What's been going on is ethnic cleansing, straight up. You can't expect people to act rationally when they've been brutalized for decades.

By saying since 1948 and not since 1967 you make it clear the very presence of a Jewish state is the problem and has little to do with occupation. Shame events such as the 1929 massacre in Hebron can't even be blamed on that.

 

[Dead Man]

By saying since 1948 and not since 1967 you make it clear the very presence of a Jewish state is the problem and has little to do with occupation. Shame events such as the 1929 massacre in Hebron can't even be blamed on that.

The method of creation could be an issue, the existence of any ethnic or religious state could be an issue, all without needing to invoke anti Semitism.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

Two of the three kids came from inside the Green Line but don't let that stop you from naming them settlers who deserved to die.

The poster you quoted said they found the incident heartbreaking.

So I tried to search for it. Where is the Amjad thread about the kidnapping of three Jews?

I know that they have been murdered now, but I just want to read up on the initial concern for their lives.

Those 'metal cans' you are laughing about have also killed children, but you pretty much seem a disgraceful human being and I'm not entirely sure why I'm even wasting my time replying.

Dead Man needs to just admit he really doesn't care about the three murdered and mutilated school kids and will take just about any opportunity to throw blame on Israel.

Yes

Glad you can take such a jovial attitude about such a serious incident. Speaks volumes of your character.

Well this thread is off to a great start.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

The method of creation could be an issue, the existence of any ethnic or religious state could be an issue, all without needing to invoke anti Semitism.

How often did Palestinians rise up against their occupation by Jordan, Egypt, Syria etc? I wonder what was different between those occupiers and Israel.

There are many problems in Israel and many problems exacerbated and perpetuated by the occupation, which I do not support. But it is fundamentally the Jewish presence in 'Muslim lands' that drives terror such as that of Hamas. They say it enough themselves so I don't see why anyone would object.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

There are many problems in Israel and many problems exacerbated and perpetuated by the occupation, which I do not support. But it is fundamentally the Jewish presence in 'Muslim lands' that drives terror such as that of Hamas. They say it enough themselves so I don't see why anyone would object.

I'm pretty sure that if Martian Scientologists started emigrating to the region en masse, then carved out a new state in the middle there, the response would have been exactly the same.

 

[Dead Man]

How often did Palestinians rise up against their occupation by Jordan, Egypt, Syria etc? I wonder what was different between those occupiers and Israel.

There are many problems in Israel and many problems exacerbated and perpetuated by the occupation, which I do not support. But it is fundamentally the Jewish presence in 'Muslim lands' that drives terror such as that of Hamas. They say it enough themselves so I don't see why anyone would object.

Don't conflate Palestinians with the poster you replied to. All of this post has nothing at all to do with the post you replied to, unless that poster is a Palestinian who did not fight against earlier rulers and now is fighting against Israel. Which I find doubtful.

Additionally, all regimes are not the same. If they were treated well why would they revolt under a different regime?

 

[mcflyOS]

This is what happens when you push a people to absolute desperation like the Israelis have been doing to the Palestinians since 1948. What's been going on is ethnic cleansing, straight up. You can't expect people to act rationally when they've been brutalized for decades.

It's puzzling to me how people can claim arabs have been ethnically cleansed for 50 years when they're outpacing Jews in growth outside and inside of Israel proper, that's even though Israel has basically an open door policy for Jews worldwide. No serious person should take that argument seriously, but many people do.

I could also point out that Jews have been persecuted for centuries... and not simply "brutalized" for decades, they were exterminated in the millions. So, if you're going to play the sympathy card, I think it's fair to understand the mindset of Israelis, who haven't had the chance for self-determination for over a thousand years. It's not like Arabs are in a similar situation, they're the overwhelming majority in every country surrounding Israel, and in many other countries in the region. There's nearly six times more arabs in Egypt alone then there are Jews worldwide... let's stop acting like Israel is not the vulnerable party here.

 

[MisterFalcon]

How often did Palestinians rise up against their occupation by Jordan, Egypt, Syria etc? I wonder what was different between those occupiers and Israel.

The Palestinian nation was always supposed to exist in place of Israel. Palestine national charter of 1964:

Article 24: This Organization does not exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or in the Himmah Area. Its activities will be on the national popular level in the liberational, organizational, political and financial fields.

In 1968 this clause was removed, Gaza and the West Bank were now suddenly Palestinian all along.