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[Satyamdas]

Their effect on society might be minimal and subtle but it is there nonetheless.
I suspect that you must have missed the whole "Dickwolves" controversy where a notorious web comic creator merely said something in defence of a previous rape comic which he was heavily criticized for - both cases being an example of how widespread rape culture is.

I am aware of the "Dickwolves" incident and that is by far the lamest example you've used so far. How can you say we promote a rape culture in the U.S. if there is a huge outcry about a harmless joke in a fucking web comic? Seems to me that a culture which accepts rape as normal behavior wouldn't even bat an eye at such a joke. Nothing you have provided establishes a culture which celebrates or promotes rape in any fashion. Some pockets of depraved individuals scattered throughout a country should not be an indictment of an entire populace.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I don't care how it happened I'd be happy if the thread title eventually changed to

Thirteen adult men and five boys arrested in gangrape of an 11 year old then they were all killed.

Oh what a wonderful society we would live in if this was the answer to everything

excuse me while i go live in fascist Germany

 

[Frostburn]

I'm not saying it is the answer to everything, I just wouldn't care if it happened to people like them.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I'm not saying it is the answer to everything, I just wouldn't care if it happened to people like them.

The thing is, if this logic was applicable to all terrible human acts it would lead to a slippery slope of even worse things

 

[Satyamdas]

Oh what a wonderful society we would live in if this was the answer to everything

excuse me while i go live in fascist Germany

The answer to everything? I don't see anyone calling for blood for those who have parking tickets or get caught speeding or who shoplift. What if it's only the answer to those who rape, maim, kill, and torture?

 

[Frostburn]

I'm not even saying this needs to be the punishment for this type of act, merely that I would not care at all if they were killed because of what they did. In jail perhaps, doesn't matter.

 

[Shanadeus]

I am aware of the "Dickwolves" incident and that is by far the lamest example you've used so far. How can you say we promote a rape culture in the U.S. if there is a huge outcry about a harmless joke in a fucking web comic? Seems to me that a culture which accepts rape as normal behavior wouldn't even bat an eye at such a joke. Nothing you have provided establishes a culture which celebrates or promotes rape in any fashion. Some pockets of depraved individuals scattered throughout a country should not be an indictment of an entire populace.

Again, rape culture =/= general populace accept, celebrate or promote rape. It is a much wider concept where someone joking about women being bad drivers are directly participating in the process of normalizing rape and sexual assaults.

The huge outcry came from a relatively small group as you might recall and not at all a good measure of large a part of society reinforces rape culture.

 

[ZephyrFate]

The answer to everything? I don't see anyone calling for blood for those who have parking tickets or get caught speeding or who shoplift. What if it's only the answer to those who rape, maim, kill, and torture?

We live in a society where those who rape, maim, kill, and torture are not met by the same actions they committed. We've moved past that... you know, becoming civilized, something you seem to regret.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

When I was in tech school, there were a lot of chicks there who loved it. Line up 20 marines and have at it.

And I'm sure none of these incidents involved girls who were damn near blackout drunk? :rollseyes

 

[Nekofrog]

And I'm sure none of these incidents involved girls who were damn near blackout drunk? :rollseyes

Nope. Not a single one. But maybe being in basic training, segregated from the opposite sex whilst constantly being yelled at just turns people into whores.

Moreso than most men already are.

 

[Orayn]

The answer to everything? I don't see anyone calling for blood for those who have parking tickets or get caught speeding or who shoplift. What if it's only the answer to those who rape, maim, kill, and torture?

Speaking hypothetically... It would be the answer for whatever the most people want, and therein lies the problem. In one community, that might be limited to rape and murder. In another, it might be speaking the wrong language, profaning the wrong religion, or disagreeing with the wrong political party.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Speaking hypothetically... It would be the answer for whatever the most people want, and therein lies the problem. In one community, that might be limited to rape and murder. In another, it might be speaking the wrong language, profaning the wrong religion, or disagreeing with the wrong political party.

Again proof enough that mob mentality is the worst mentality.

 

[Satyamdas]

Again, rape culture =/= general populace accept, celebrate or promote rape. It is a much wider concept where someone joking about women being bad drivers are directly participating in the process of normalizing rape and sexual assaults.

HOW IN THE FUCK ARE YOU MAKING THIS CONNECTION?! Please explain to me how a joke about women being bad drivers is the same thing as condoning sexual assault or rape against them??? I refuse to believe that you actually believe this tripe. You are good at repeating it, but not so good at elucidating. So if you can't break this connection down for me, I will be forced to conclude that you are just trollololollin.

We live in a society where those who rape, maim, kill, and torture are not met by the same actions they committed. We've moved past that... you know, becoming civilized, something you seem to regret.

If we are so civilized, then why are these actions repeatedly committed again, and again, and again?

Speaking hypothetically... It would be the answer for whatever the most people want, and therein lies the problem. In one community, that might be limited to rape and murder. In another, it might be speaking the wrong language, profaning the wrong religion, or disagreeing with the wrong political party.

But I wasn't speaking hypothetically about political affiliations or speaking the wrong language. I was referring specifically to reserving the harshest punishment strictly for the most heinous forms of human rights violations such as rape, torture, and murder.

 

[Riposte]

Any time someone says "rape culture", I laugh a little at the sheer ridiculousness and obvious feminist propaganda nature of the term. Does that mean rape culture is apart of rape culture?

 

[Kusagari]

Again, rape culture =/= general populace accept, celebrate or promote rape. It is a much wider concept where someone joking about women being bad drivers are directly participating in the process of normalizing rape and sexual assaults.

The huge outcry came from a relatively small group as you might recall and not at all a good measure of large a part of society reinforces rape culture.

So making any sort of joke about women is participating in a rape culture? That's the only way what you're saying makes sense because there's no other connection between women being bad drivers and rape.

 

[Shanadeus]

HOW IN THE FUCK ARE YOU MAKING THIS CONNECTION?! Please explain to me how a joke about women being bad drivers is the same thing as condoning sexual assault or rape against them??? I refuse to believe that you actually believe this tripe. You are good at repeating it, but not so good at elucidating. So if you can't break this connection down for me, I will be forced to conclude that you are just trollololollin.

So making any sort of joke about women is participating in a rape culture? That's the only way what you're saying makes sense because there's no other connection between women being bad drivers and rape.

Because these jokes and attitudes contributes to an unequal and sexist treatment of women that in turn result trivialization of their personal rights of bodily autonomy and freedom - which enables rapist and sexually violent behaviour aimed at women.

And that's just a simplification of the situation.

 

[Satyamdas]

Because these jokes and attitudes contributes to an unequal and sexist treatment of women that in turn result trivialization of their personal rights of bodily autonomy and freedom - which enables rapist and sexually violent behaviour aimed at women.

And that's just a simplification of the situation.

It is a gross simplification to the point of complete and utter absurdity, and you have no choice but to simplify like that because the connection falls apart under any serious scrutiny. A rapist is going to rape regardless of any bad women driver jokes he has heard in his lifetime, and I dare say that those jokes play ZERO part in his choice to violate a woman sexually. ZERO.

For every joke about women, there is another joke about men. Are these male jokes somehow less harmful to attitudes about men and their character or personal rights?? For fucks sake, you can't watch a tv show, commercial, or movie these days without seeing the stereotypical dumb male bumbling around like a moron, usually only holding himself together through the help of his witty, charming, and superior intelligence possessing wife or girlfriend.

 

[Peasant Princess-King]

In both cases the men or boys claimed to not know how old the girls were. What I want to know is how the hell does knowing someone's true age warrants a gang rape?

 

[Shanadeus]

It is a gross simplification to the point of complete and utter absurdity, and you have no choice but to simplify like that because the connection falls apart under any serious scrutiny. A rapist is going to rape regardless of any bad women driver jokes he has heard in his lifetime, and I dare say that those jokes play ZERO part in his choice to violate a woman sexually. ZERO.

For every joke about women, there is another joke about men. Are these male jokes somehow less harmful to attitudes about men and their character or personal rights?? For fucks sake, you can't watch a tv show, commercial, or movie these days without seeing the stereotypical dumb male bumbling around like a moron, usually only holding himself together through the help of his witty, charming, and superior intelligence possessing wife or girlfriend.

Of course the jokes themselves have a very minor effect on the potential rapist/sexual assaulters but you shouldn't underestimate the cumulative effect of a thousand year long denigration of females that has only recently started to get balanced out by make sexist jokes (which I'd say are also contributing to rape culture by portraying men as dumb beasts who can't control their instincts, in effect normalizing and condoning the lack of self-control).

The bad woman driver jokes won't make a person more likely to rape. The culture that accept bad woman driver jokes on the other hand, will make a person more likely to rape.

In both cases the men or boys claimed to not know how old the girls were. What I want to know is how the hell does knowing someone's true age warrants a gang rape?

Trying to go for rape of an adult rather than a child.
It won't work though as it doesn't matter what age you thought she or he was (at least that's the case here).

 

[Satyamdas]

The bad woman driver jokes won't make a person more likely to rape. The culture that accept bad woman driver jokes on the other hand, will make a person more likely to rape.

No. This is wrong. Factually incorrect, and utilizes surprisingly unintelligent reasoning.

Rational people have the ability to laugh at others without wishing harm on them or thinking that it is acceptable to do harm to them. The person who would violate a woman sexually is an irrational person, they are operating outside of society's accepted parameters for behavior. If no jokes about women existed at all, they would be no less likely to commit rape or sexual assault. That you would try to connect the two as some symptom of "rape culture" in the U.S. is frighteningly pathetic and reeks of desperation.

 

[Morphie]

Because these jokes and attitudes contributes to an unequal and sexist treatment of women that in turn result trivialization of their personal rights of bodily autonomy and freedom - which enables rapist and sexually violent behaviour aimed at women.

And that's just a simplification of the situation.

:nods: Perpetuation of sexism and perpetuation of rape culture go hand in hand. It seems harmless to joke about "women this or that", but you essentially have half of a population who is not fully empowered to possess their own selves by the society around them, and by continuing with an often-implicit-and-sometimes-explicit oppression of them by engaging in sexist dialogue, you are in fact Not Helping and even Actually Making Things Worse.

 

[Shanadeus]

No. This is wrong. Factually incorrect, and utilizes surprisingly unintelligent reasoning.

Rational people have the ability to laugh at others without wishing harm on them or thinking that it is acceptable to do harm to them. The person who would violate a woman sexually is an irrational person, they are operating outside of society's accepted parameters for behavior. If no jokes about women existed at all, they would be no less likely to commit rape or sexual assault. That you would try to connect the two as some symptom of "rape culture" in the U.S. is frighteningly pathetic and reeks of desperation.

It's actually not a mere "joke is said, rape is done"-scenario but rather I used the example of jokes as something that contributes to a society with a more sexist outlook which in turn does result in more rapes.
If no jokes about women existed at all and there was less sexism because of this - I'm certain that there would be less rapes.

What morphie said as well:

:nods: Perpetuation of sexism and perpetuation of rape culture go hand in hand. It seems harmless to joke about "women this or that", but you essentially have half of a population who is not fully empowered to possess their own selves by the society around them, and by continuing with an often-implicit-and-sometimes-explicit oppression of them by engaging in sexist dialogue, you are in fact Not Helping and even Actually Making Things Worse.
Today 09:25 AM

 

[Peasant Princess-King]

Trying to go for rape of an adult rather than a child.
It won't work though as it doesn't matter what age you thought she or he was (at least that's the case here).

Well... that is just silly. Rape is emotionally scarring with damaging consequences no matter what age you are. :/ That's the thing I don't understand, you know? Why should those people deserve a lesser sentence had she or he had been older? That person will still be traumatized by the experience no matter what their age is. Sometimes children can even cope better than some adults. People who deliberately do that to other people should suffer the same consequences no matter what the victim's or victims' age(s)/gender is.

It is just sickening to think that one of their defenses was that they weren't aware of their victim's age, it shouldn't matter.

 

[Riposte]

Because these jokes and attitudes contributes to an unequal and sexist treatment of women that in turn result trivialization of their personal rights of bodily autonomy and freedom - which enables rapist and sexually violent behaviour aimed at women.

And that's just a simplification of the situation.

Right, so plain-as-day, it is a feminist trick to get people to shut up about "their people of choice". Criminalizing sexism of all degrees(from sportsmanship to chivalry) with rape is extremely useful for feminists(and to a much lesser degree women in general). However as a person who finds politically-incorrect jokes funny and is immune to guilt memes, I find this despicable. It is not like you can possibly succeed in getting rid of sexism, short of turning everyone into women or men. (And even then, you might get something like manly men looking down at girly men is some fashion or another, like through sports. You'd have to make everyone the same. Or maybe get rid of everyone but one person. Only then does equality stop being fictional concept.)

 

[MuzzledBasher]

I think before getting the pitchforks ready, people should wait until the accused are convicted through trial. It really worries me how every time there is a news of some awful crime many internet posters always seem to have total disregard for a just procedure and presumption of innocent until proven guilty.

Seriously, the parents of these rapists sound like they're straight out of the middle east, blaming a woman for getting gang raped because she went somewhere without her dad or brother.

Okay I'd hate to derail the thread and in the process come off as one of those over sensitive "PC" people, and maybe it is because I am actually from ME but that comes off as rather offensive, dare I say even prejudiced (tho I doubt you are) and over all a generalisation of the region.
I can't help but feel that if you had said those parents sound like they are black or that they sound like they come from Africa people would have at least questioned you about it.

 

[Morphie]

Right, so plain-as-day, it is a feminist trick to get people to shut up about "their people of choice". Criminalizing sexism of all degrees(from sportsmanship to chivalry) with rape is extremely useful for feminists(and to a much lesser degree women in general). However as a person who finds politically-incorrect jokes funny and is immune to guilt memes, I find this despicable. It is not like you can possibly succeed getting rid of sexism, sort of turning everyone into women or men. (And even then, you might get something like manly men looking down at girly men is some fashion or another, like through sports. You'd have to make everyone the same. Or maybe get rid of everyone but one person. Only then does equality stop being fictional concept.)

Hear that ladies? You're never going to stop being oppressed for being female. The feminisation of yourselves or male members of society inspires men to hate, and you should not bother hoping for a better world, so sit down and STFU.

(or at least that's what I got out of this extraordinarily well-written and relevant response). :/

I mean, just for a second, imagine if we were talking about how racism perpetuates the miscarriage of justice in the legal system and someone started going on about how you "just couldn't get rid of racism, I mean, it's always going to exist on some level - like what if you just made everyone white, well some people would *act* like [minority] and they would be looked down upon". I mean - how offensive is that??

The very fact that you think it's okay and inevitable that sexism exists is a perfect example of the overarching problem that is our society's treatment of women.

 

[Satyamdas]

It's actually not a mere "joke is said, rape is done"-scenario but rather I used the example of jokes as something that contributes to a society with a more sexist outlook which in turn does result in more rapes.
If no jokes about women existed at all and there was less sexism because of this - I'm certain that there would be less rapes.

What morphie said as well:

It's nonsense. You are drawing an unbelievably flimsy connection. What about women who joke about other women in any number of different instances? Are they sexist and contributing to rape culture? You really think a society of uptight people who aren't allowed to poke fun at others would somehow be LESS likely to lash out violently or sexually? Incredible.

:nods: Perpetuation of sexism and perpetuation of rape culture go hand in hand. It seems harmless to joke about "women this or that", but you essentially have half of a population who is not fully empowered to possess their own selves by the society around them, and by continuing with an often-implicit-and-sometimes-explicit oppression of them by engaging in sexist dialogue, you are in fact Not Helping and even Actually Making Things Worse.

Rape culture is a loaded phrase that is intellectually dishonest and irresponsibly used. Sexism exists and is a fine descriptor of an attitude which is harmful to women (and men). Insinuating that the majority of people are OK with rape in any form is despicable and thoughtless.

I think that a world where we can laugh and poke fun at each other freely is far more desirable to one where we are all muzzled and afraid of offending feelings -- especially if this muzzling is done in the name of preventing something as vague and dishonest as a "rape culture".

A censored society is much worse than one which is free to express themselves, be it politically, philosophically, or humorously, and I for one am glad that people like you or Shanadeus have no means by which to enforce your draconian ideas.

 

[Riposte]

Hear that ladies? You're never going to stop being oppressed for being female. The feminisation of yourselves or male members of society inspires men to hate, and you should not bother hoping for a better world, so sit down and STFU.

(or at least that's what I got out of this extraordinarily well-written and relevant response). :/

Most of that is just stuff you made up to fill in the blanks of my post. Like for example, I never brought up what inspires hate.

 

[Shanadeus]

It's nonsense. You are drawing an unbelievably flimsy connection. What about women who joke about other women in any number of different instances? Are they sexist and contributing to rape culture? You really think a society of uptight people who aren't allowed to poke fun at others would somehow be LESS likely to lash out violently or sexually? Incredible.

Rape culture is a loaded phrase that is intellectually dishonest and irresponsibly used. Sexism exists and is a fine descriptor of an attitude which is harmful to women (and men). Insinuating the majority of people are OK with rape in any form is despicable and thoughtless.

I think that a world where we can laugh and poke fun at each other freely is far more desirable to one where we are all muzzled and afraid of offending feelings -- especially if this muzzling is done in the name of preventing something as vague and dishonest as a "rape culture".

A censored society is much worse than one which is free to express themselves, be it politically philosophically, or humorously, and I for one am glad that people like you or Shanadeus have no means by which to enforce your draconian ideas.

When those jokes to contribute to a general feeling of superiority in one gender in regards to certain areas then you're way past the point of just having a laugh. But really, it's not as if you can't use these jokes with people you are friends with and who can take your jokes in good humour - whether it's a sexist or a racist joke.

I am not insinuating that the majority of people are okay with rape in any form, my guess is that an overwhelming majority is strongly against it. But that doesn't preclude the possibility of them enabling rapists in their, to them harmless, behaviour. Then we have studies such as the one I linked above that shows that society is pretty sexist and partially rape apologetic even if they don't condone rape.

 

[Devolution]

When those jokes to contribute to a general feeling of superiority in one gender in regards to certain areas then you're way past the point of just having a laugh. But really, it's not as if you can't use these jokes with people you are friends with and who can take your jokes in good humour - whether it's a sexist or a racist joke.

I am not insinuating that the majority of people are okay with rape in any form, my guess is that an overwhelming majority is strongly against it. But that doesn't preclude the possibility of them enabling rapists in their, to them harmless, behaviour. Then we have studies such as the one I linked above that shows that society is pretty sexist and partially rape apologetics even if they don't condone rape.

There was a also a study done about how rapists think. They think all men rape, and just haven't gotten caught. So guess who feels reinforced about their ideas when people make rape jokes?

 

[Night_Trekker]

I don't even think we all have the capacity to commit murder, unless you would consider lethal self-defense murder. Having the physical ability to do something and having the moral desire or willingness to do it are completely different, and I would wager that a sizable portion of the population could never bring themselves to murder in cold blood.

I think you are completely wrong about that. And no, I do not consider lethal self-defense murder.

 

[Satyamdas]

There was a also a study done about how rapists think. They think all men rape, and just haven't gotten caught. So guess who feels reinforced about their ideas when people make rape jokes?

So now everyone should be tiptoeing around and watching what they say because of what some deranged fuckwad might take from it?? Really? And if we don't all engage in this self-consorship, we are in fact encouraging and propagating the act of rape? Fuck outta here with that shit, it just holds no water.

A person given to that level of violation will do so regardless of the prevailing attitudes or mores of a society. Trying to pin their outlandish actions on other people for something like a bad woman driver joke, a rape joke, or masculine and feminine pronouns, is the height of lunacy and the complete abdication of critical thought.

I think you are completely wrong about that. And no, I do not consider lethal self-defense murder.

That's interesting. I consider myself an impossibly cynical fucker and yet you have managed to outdo even my own incredibly jaded view of humanity. Kudos, I guess?

 

[Morphie]

What about women who joke about other women in any number of different instances? Are they sexist and contributing to rape culture?

Oftentimes, yes.

You really think a society of uptight people who aren't allowed to poke fun at others would somehow be LESS likely to lash out violently or sexually? Incredible.

More like; a society that was more aware of the problems its women face would be less likely to think these jokes were funny/amusing.

Rape culture is a loaded phrase that is intellectually dishonest and irresponsibly used. Sexism exists and is a fine descriptor of an attitude which is harmful to women (and men). Insinuating that the majority of people are OK with rape in any form is despicable and thoughtless.

They perhaps aren't *Actually Okay With Rape* when pressed by it as the outcome of a set of behaviors, but very few do anything to press back against the ideals/behaviors/expectations/treatments that help build a societal framework which concludes with women getting raped.

I think that a world where we can laugh and poke fun at each other freely is far more desirable to one where we are all muzzled and afraid of offending feelings -- especially if this muzzling is done in the name of preventing something as vague and dishonest as a "rape culture".

A censored society is much worse than one which is free to express themselves, be it politically, philosophically, or humorously, and I for one am glad that people like you or Shanadeus have no means by which to enforce your draconian ideas.

Again, if you had any idea what you were talking about, you wouldn't find the jokes so amusing in the first place. No one is saying you 'can't' express your ideas in ways that you find humorous, all they're saying is it contributes to the oppression of a marginalized group, and it does. You can tell all the sexist/racist/classist/ageist/ableist jokes you want, but the fact is it does cause harm, and it is your contribution to a larger problem that emerges when no one sees what that pervasive attitude/mentality is doing to the people it marginalizes.

 

[Devolution]

So now everyone should be tiptoeing around and watching what they say because of what some deranged fuckwad might take from it?? Really? And if we don't all engage in this self-consorship, we are in fact encouraging and propagating the act of rape? Fuck outta here with that shit, it just holds no water.

Have you made a rape joke in front of a victim? Had them tell you they were raped because of your insensitive joke? God forbid people not remind those people of that traumatic event.

A person given to that level of violation will do so regardless of the prevailing attitudes or mores of a society. Trying to pin their outlandish actions on other people for something like a bad woman driver joke, a rape joke, or masculine and feminine pronouns, is the height of lunacy and the complete abdication of critical thought.

These things add up. It's incredibly short sighted and shallow to think that a larger cultural narrative isn't helped up by smaller seemingly innocuous attitudes.

 

[Morphie]

"Not liking" a guy because he's a "girly man" is hatred of feminization, idc what anyone says.

 

[Night_Trekker]

That's interesting. I consider myself an impossibly cynical fucker and yet you have managed to outdo even my own impossibly jaded view of humanity. Kudos, I guess?

It has nothing to do with cynicism. Given the right set of circumstances, anyone could lose it and kill another human being. We are animals and we have animal instincts, and there are situations in which those instincts are overpowering. We might like to believe otherwise, but we would like to believe a lot of things that aren't true.

And what's with the snarky little "kudos" nonsense? Come off it. There's a huge difference between holding a belief about human nature and being proud of it. There's also a huge difference between believing in unshakable human goodness and being a great guy because of that belief.

"Not liking" a guy because he's a "girly man" is hatred of feminization, idc what anyone says.

No, it's a hatred of weakness. (And I do not profess to support that stance at all.)

Not caring what anyone says about a controversial subject makes you sound childish and close-minded.

 

[Riposte]

There was a also a study done about how rapists think. They think all men rape, and just haven't gotten caught. So guess who feels reinforced about their ideas when people make rape jokes?

I have to commend the audacity of people presenting such non-concrete information and then warping it into a guilt trip. Rape-fueled guilt no less. Aiming for the heart rather than the brain. Such tactics really betray one's intentions.

And someone can really be putting down the driving ability of women(a generalization) and just be having a laugh at the same time. Only they would be doing something YOU, the individual, don't like. So naturally you want to bully them into thinking like yourself.

 

[Satyamdas]

Have you made a rape joke in front of a victim? Had them tell you they were raped because of your insensitive joke? God forbid people not remind those people of that traumatic event.

I don't make rape jokes, and when I hear them my reaction is usually disgust. And I suspect this is the case for most people. Rape is a terrible thing, but it is not magically off limits from being made light of, just like other terrible subjects like racism, the holocaust, or any other "bad" thing.

These things add up. It's incredibly short sighted and shallow to think that a larger cultural narrative isn't helped up by smaller seemingly innocuous attitudes.

My contention is to the degree to which this narrative exists. By saying we are awash in a rape culture implies that the vast majority of the populace is totally cool with rape and sexual assault, that it is so common as to be regarded as a natural and normal occurrence. And if rape culture doesn't imply complicity of rape, then the term is being erroneously and dishonestly used to stir emotions rather than to accurately describe. It's tarring and feathering everyone for the actions of a small minority, for no good reason.

 

[Devolution]

I have to commend the audacity of people presenting such non-concrete information and then warping it into a guilt trip. Rape-fueled guilt no less. Aiming for the heart rather than the brain. Such tactics really betray one's intentions.

Non-concrete information?

http://www.menspeakup.org/why-rape-jokes-are-never-ok

 

[Morphie]

I have to commend the audacity of people presenting such non-concrete information and then warping it into a guilt trip. Rape-fueled guilt no less. Aiming for the heart rather than the brain. Such tactics really betray one's intentions.

And someone can really be putting down the driving ability of women(a generalization) and just be having a laugh at the same time. Only they would be doing something YOU, the individual, don't like. So naturally you want to bully them into thinking like yourself.

Yep, it's all about "being right" and not at all about "being tired of being considered a lesser person and subject to the risks of having my bodily autonomy violated just because i have different plumbing". You know who we should ask about what women want? Men.

Your posts are surprisingly astute and insightful.

 

[Riposte]

Non-concrete information?

http://www.menspeakup.org/why-rape-jokes-are-never-ok

Quote what is important about this piece and I will talk about it. I am not reading anything titled "Feminism 101"(for the same reason I wouldn't read anything titled "Neo-Nazism 101", it is repulsive and propaganda).

If it is just another rant based on feelings, I am not interested at all.

 

[Devolution]

Quote what is important about this piece and I will talk about it. I am not reading anything titled "Feminism 101"(for the same reason I wouldn't read anything titled "Neo-Nazism 101", it is repulsive).

If it is just another rant based on feelings, I am not interested at all.

Totally comparable. Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[Morphie]

No, it's a hatred of weakness.

so feminization = weakness? wtf?

 

[Future]

Non-concrete information?

http://www.menspeakup.org/why-rape-jokes-are-never-ok

That is ridiculous. Basically laughing at a rape joke means I am siding with a rapist, and thus supporting their behavior. Right. Not even worth discussing.

 

[Devolution]

That is ridiculous. Basically laughing at a rape joke means I am siding with a rapist, and thus supporting their behavior. Right. Not even worth discussing.

You're laughing at the expense of a rape victim at the very least. It doesn't surprise me that the article is lost on a bunch of people who don't mind being insensitive assholes.

 

[Riposte]

Totally comparable. Welcome to my ignore list.

By being added to your ignore list the only thing has changed is that I'll see less hotlinking. How about an argument?

 

[Night_Trekker]

so feminization = weakness? wtf?

Nice try. Females are generally less physically powerful than males. You're not going to debate that, are you?

You're laughing at the expense of a rape victim at the very least.

Or you're laughing at the audacity of the joke-teller for saying something that you recognize to be completely socially unacceptable. Most "shock humor" works that way.

 

[Riposte]

Yep, it's all about "being right" and not at all about "being tired of being considered a lesser person and subject to the risks of having my bodily autonomy violated just because i have different plumbing". You know who we should ask about what women want? Men.

Your posts are surprisingly astute and insightful.

Am I suppose to feel sad or something? Don't you realize how pointless it is to appeal to my feelings when I am thinking logically. I am looking at the bigger picture here. Imagine if sexist jokes were made illegal. What would happen to all my favorite comedians who say such things(and mean it, to degree)? Of course, not to mention how totalitarian this would be on every individual.

 

[Satyamdas]

It has nothing to do with cynicism. Given the right set of circumstances, anyone could lose it and kill another human being. We are animals and we have animal instincts, and there are situations in which those instincts are overpowering. We might like to believe otherwise, but we would like to believe a lot of things that aren't true.

What are these "circumstances"? I can think of nothing other than immediate self defense where I would physically be able to kill another person. I hardly think I am alone. Out of ~7 Billion people on the planet, how many do you think commit murder each year? Under 1 million, surely? So, given that the rest of us can seem to get by just fine without murdering, and that even in the face of our "animal instincts" we can remain relatively civil, I stand by my assertion that a sizable portion of humanity would not be able to bring themselves to murder. I think you are underestimating man's ability to hold his urges in check, far more than I am overestimating them.

And what's with the snarky little "kudos" nonsense? Come off it. There's a huge difference between holding a belief about human nature and being proud of it. There's also a huge difference between believing in unshakable human goodness and being a great guy because of that belief.

It wasn't intended to be snarky, I was just genuinely shocked that my cynical outlook of man was outdone and chose poorly in saying so. I didn't mean to imply you were proud of your belief, and I certainly agree that a faith in the goodness of humans does not make one a great guy. I honestly was not trying to make a value judgment of your belief, I was just taken aback by it.

 

[Future]

You're laughing at the expense of a rape victim at the very least. It doesn't surprise me that the article is lost on a bunch of people who don't mind being insensitive assholes.

Insanity. People laugh about fucked up jokes all the time. This does not mean you condone the fucked up behavior, or are laughing at the expense of any person unfortunate enough to fall victim to it. It does not mean you promote the behavior, or passively recommend this behavior to anyone else as this article suggests.

Being sensitive or not has no part in this. The logic is poor and the conclusion is absurd.