This doesn't make sense. Is the Wii having bad 480p output?

Ranger X

Member
Ok i've been testing the Wii on my new HDTV (Samsung LN40A550).
Of course the image looks softened because of the upscaling but there's also some white halo, some color warping of some sort when i set the Wii in 480p.

Now here's what doesn't make sense:

-The Wii is the only console that does that on my TV. I've tested a PS2 and a PSP and it doesn't happen.
-To get rid of that "halo", i need to put the Wii in 480i.

It doesn't make any sense that it looks better in 480i than 480p. Is the official Nintendo component cables that sucks or the Wii is having WORSE upscaling than my TV ????
 
By halo you mean ghosting?

Are you running through any switchboxes, etc? Used to happen to me when I had to use a component switcher.
 
Sounds like a digital noise reduction problem. I would look in your TV settings and disable any such feature. I know you said that the PS2 and PSP don't do it, but it's entirely possible that the mangling of the image just isn't as apparent on those signals.
 
Nope i don't mean ghosting.

It's not my component switchox because the PS2 and PSP were also hooked in there.

Finally, it's not the digital noise reduction because it was turned off.

:(
 
Ranger X said:
Nope i don't mean ghosting.

It's not my component switchox because the PS2 and PSP were also hooked in there.

Finally, it's not the digital noise reduction because it was turned off.

:(


Even though all my friend's component devices go through the component switchbox, it's only on the Wii that everything shifts and glows on white images. And the image drops out on some loading screens. Joytech released an adapter to supposedly fix the switchbox (it's a common problem that is all over internet forums with the 540C) but it didn't do much good.
 
I get little white dots all over the screen with the Wii on 480p. Also the only device I own that does that. Looks like shimmer. Wii plus big screen apparently is not a good mix.
 
Ranger X said:
It's not my component switchox because the PS2 and PSP were also hooked in there.

I would try a direct connection between the Wii and TV at this point just for troubleshooting purposes anyway. I know that it doesn't make sense for the switchbox to cause noticeable signal degradation in one signal but not the others, but testing a direct connection will either allow you to associate this weirdness with the switch or eliminate it with 100% confidence.

Ranger X said:
Finally, it's not the digital noise reduction because it was turned off.

:(

Bugger. Well, ultimately I'd blame the video output from your Wii before I'd blame the component cable. Maybe the signal strength is too low to make it through the switch and additional cabling cleanly?
 
Something similar happens to me. When i set it to 480p the image looks like it has noise. I'm also using the official component cables. No other console does it.
 
Ranger X said:
Nope i don't mean ghosting.

It's not my component switchox because the PS2 and PSP were also hooked in there.

Finally, it's not the digital noise reduction because it was turned off.

:(
I assume you've tried plugging the Wii directly into the TV first? If not, that should have been your first step.

Could you describe in more detail what's wrong with the picture?
 
Wii: 480p output problems are most likely a hardware issue

Update2: I talked with Nintendo today. Very friendly customer support. The customer service dude asked if I had another TV to hook it up to. Uh, no, only one 1080p, component video capable, monitor in the house. He also asked if I had tried the regular video cables as it might be a scaling issue. Nope — but I have a number of other video sources that are scaled to the same or greater degree without problem. That was that — shipping label on the way. Clearly, this is not an uncommon problem. Nintendo will cross ship if you don’t have data on the box. If you do, it needs to be shipped in to have the data transferred from the old machine to the new, presumably so that Nintendo can activate the data & games on the new box.

Update: Consensus indicates that this is a hardware issue with my Wii. Furthermore, it seems to be a not terribly uncommon failure mode. I’ll get in touch with Nintendo and update this post when I get a response. For now, Paper Mario has my attention– what an awesome game!

I ran across a post on Engdaget discusses numerous reports of problems with component video output from the Nintendo Wii.

Our Wii is connected to a 46″ Sony Bravia XBR-B2 TV (which, btw, runs Linux internally). We picked up this particular TV because it makes an absolutely gorgeous monitor for a Mac Mini (which does a decent job of scaling– not up-converting or re-sampling or whatever, as far as I know — DVDs) and, in theory, for the Wii. That, and it has a zillion inputs, including a couple of S-Video, a composite video (remember those?), and an HDMI with separate audio input.

Wii UI Dot Trash
While I haven’t [yet] experienced the black outs during Zelda or the Wii Console interface, I do see a lot of noise in the image. It is almost like the textures aren’t quite connected correctly and a handful of pixels here and there are all washed out. In Zelda, nothing is sharp and the colors are all washed out.

In the screenshot to the left, you can see a vertical column of dots in between the YES and NO buttons. This is pervasive throughout most of the standard UI presentations on the Wii.

But I think it is a software issue. Why? Because game cube games are so frighteningly bright, sharp and flawlessly displayed at 480p that I’m tempted to wear sunglasses (actually, turn down the brightness on the display). Seriously. Game cube games are just flat out gorgeous. I’m sure I could have the same experience with the game cube itself if I were to grab a set of component cables for it. After all, the Wii is just a souped up game cube with a lot of networking and wireless features tacked on.

Also, the newer games look better. Wii Play, for example, is rendered in the same style as the launch title Wii Sports. But Wii Play is sharper and has less aliasing at the edges of stuff.


I hope that Nintendo will eventually release a software update to fix the blown pixels in the main console UI. It is unfortunate that Zelda will never be updated, but the game is so great that the visual artifacts are more annoying that a total joy killer. To the right is a screenshot of general game play (opening credits, in this case). Here is a closeup of some dot trash in part of a castle wall.

Actually, it appears that one of the most recent software updates has made the problem less prevalent in standard UI components. It may also simply be because it added a channel to the main display, thus causing a slightly layout change. Zelda isn’t any better, which isn’t terribly surprising. I do wonder if Nintendo has a mechanism for providing patches for games on disc?

http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/02/18/wii-480p-output-problems-are-most-likely-a-software-issue/
 
VideoMan said:
I assume you've tried plugging the Wii directly into the TV first? If not, that should have been your first step.

Could you describe in more detail what's wrong with the picture?

Yup i did.
The kinda color bleeding is still there even if it's hooked directly to the TV.
 
Ok look at that pic from some article:

394375847_ceada7e15b.jpg



I don't have the dots (not yet, lol) but do you see that white all around the black letters on the buttons?
Amplify this quite a bit more and there is the problem i have.
 
That artifact is called ringing. It's usually caused by over-eager sharpening filters (you can replicate it easily in Photoshop et al). If your TV offers a "sharpness" option, turn it all the way down to minimum. That's the only advice I have for you. Otherwise use what works. If 480i is the only thing that helps, use 480i. I (fortunately) don't have these problems on my display, and I'm using component as well.

The Wii's analog output is weird, just like the Gamecube's. The voltage range is a bit above the standard, which can saturate/overdrive some TVs' input buffers. Aggressive SD signal "enhancing" in HDTVs and the Wii's menu being just about the worst-case scenario for high-contrast black and white further adds to the problem.
 
That's so bad. Can't the Wii be anymore cheap?

My sharpness setting right now was 50/100 (default). There's no edge enhancements effects turn on either.

What irks me is that the PS2 and PSP doesn't ring with the same freaking settings. Jeez the Wii sucks. :(
 
infinityBCRT said:
Try turning down the sharpness on your TV.
Yep. Crank the sharpness WAY down (though you should determine whether or not the TV does negative sharpness as turning it to the bottom could actually blur the image). Make sure that all artificial image enhancements are disabled and turn down the sharpness. That SHOULD solve it, hopefully.
 
Ranger X said:
Ok look at that pic from some article:

394375847_ceada7e15b.jpg



I don't have the dots (not yet, lol) but do you see that white all around the black letters on the buttons?
Amplify this quite a bit more and there is the problem i have.

Not saying this is definitely your problem, but that is a common issue with most scaling algorithms. Its called ringing. Try turning down the sharpness/edge enhancement on your TV.
 
bcn-ron said:
That artifact is called ringing. It's usually caused by over-eager sharpening filters (you can replicate it easily in Photoshop et al). If your TV offers a "sharpness" option, turn it all the way down to minimum. That's the only advice I have for you. Otherwise use what works. If 480i is the only thing that helps, use 480i. I (fortunately) don't have these problems on my display, and I'm using component as well.

The Wii's analog output is weird, just like the Gamecube's. The voltage range is a bit above the standard, which can saturate/overdrive some TVs' input buffers. Aggressive SD signal "enhancing" in HDTVs and the Wii's menu being just about the worst-case scenario for high-contrast black and white further adds to the problem.


Do you think there's still a possibility of hardware problems that would cause more ringing from my Wii than other's?
 
Onix said:
Not saying this is definitely your problem, but that is a common issue with most scaling algorithms. Its called ringing. Try turning down the sharpness/edge enhancement on your TV.

All the enhancements and such are turned off already. My sharpness setting is at 50/100 (default) and does not cause problems with other old consoles.
If i drop the sharpness under 30 it gets blurry. :(
 
WOW

394375847_ceada7e15b.jpg


Guys I really want to help you out with this and be prepared to realise that your Wii has big a problem... I did have those dots all over my screen with my first Wii I bought. Seriouslly I was pretty desapointed. I ended up Exchanging it with a newer model and I don't have that roblem anymore.

It's verry sad but i think this has to do with the Hardware. Please Nintendo realise this problem and help people out with this.
 
One of the sharpness settings should disable the edge enhancement entirely. It might be 30, it might be 0. Play a game and give your eyes some time to adjust - the picture might seem very 'soft' especially when you've just changed the setting, but after about five minutes you won't notice anything. You want the minimum sharpness setting that doesn't actually engage a blur filter (destroying image information).

Your other consoles don't have the problem with ringing, but disabling edge enhancement certainly won't hurt their picture quality and might even offer a very slight improvement. 50% sharpness is almost certainly a less-than-ideal setting on any HDTV with any SD signal.
 
XGoldenboyX said:
WOW


Guys I really want to help you out with this and be prepared to realise that your Wii has big a problem... I did have those dots all over my screen with my first Wii I bought. Seriouslly I was pretty desapointed. I ended up Exchanging it with a newer model and I don't have that roblem anymore.

It's verry sad but i think this has to do with the Hardware. Please Nintendo realise this problem and help people out with this.
I'm pretty sure if you send it back to Nintendo they'll send you a new one.
 
XGoldenboyX said:
WOW



Guys I really want to help you out with this and be prepared to realise that your Wii has big a problem... I did have those dots all over my screen with my first Wii I bought. Seriouslly I was pretty desapointed. I ended up Exchanging it with a newer model and I don't have that roblem anymore.

It's verry sad but i think this has to do with the Hardware. Please Nintendo realise this problem and help people out with this.

My problems are not the dots.
 
The Wii does the same bullshit 4:3 to 16:9 stretching that TBS HD uses... I.e. the center of the image is 4:3, and has the correct PAR, but the edges of the screen are stretched and warped to fill up a 16:9 screen, and the PAR is completely fucked. And it muddies EVERYTHIGN.

It pissed me off so much, I disabled widescreen in the Wii system menu (I don't let my TV stretch it etiher) and it looks SO much better... Sure I've got pillar-boxes, but I've also got a sharp, clean, CORRECT Pixel Aspect Ratio screen.

Everyone should at least try, it, see what they like better.
 
XGoldenboyX said:
WOW

Guys I really want to help you out with this and be prepared to realise that your Wii has big a problem... I did have those dots all over my screen with my first Wii I bought. Seriouslly I was pretty desapointed. I ended up Exchanging it with a newer model and I don't have that roblem anymore.

It's verry sad but i think this has to do with the Hardware. Please Nintendo realise this problem and help people out with this.
there are two different problems in that picture - (1) the overheated wii frambuffer issue, and (2) scaler ringing, and the OP suffers from the latter. as re the former, it's been known for a long time now.

Spasm said:
The Wii does the same bullshit 4:3 to 16:9 stretching that TBS HD uses... I.e. the center of the image is 4:3, and has the correct PAR, but the edges of the screen are stretched and warped to fill up a 16:9 screen, and the PAR is completely fucked. And it muddies EVERYTHIGN.

It pissed me off so much, I disabled widescreen in the Wii system menu (I don't let my TV stretch it etiher) and it looks SO much better... Sure I've got pillar-boxes, but I've also got a sharp, clean, CORRECT Pixel Aspect Ratio screen.

Everyone should at least try, it, see what they like better.
wii does linear widescreen stretching. check your tv settings.
 
Spasm said:
The Wii does the same bullshit 4:3 to 16:9 stretching that TBS HD uses... I.e. the center of the image is 4:3, and has the correct PAR, but the edges of the screen are stretched and warped to fill up a 16:9 screen, and the PAR is completely fucked. And it muddies EVERYTHIGN.

It pissed me off so much, I disabled widescreen in the Wii system menu (I don't let my TV stretch it etiher) and it looks SO much better... Sure I've got pillar-boxes, but I've also got a sharp, clean, CORRECT Pixel Aspect Ratio screen.

Everyone should at least try, it, see what they like better.

That sounds like an issue with the way your TV stretches images as the Wii only ever outputs a 640x480 signal.

Are you using some kind of "smart stretch" option? Its use on an anamorphic signal would cause exactly the problems you describe, so you should disable it.
 
It USED to do linear widescreen stretching. I think that changed with an update. That's my theory. My TV does not have a non-linear AR stretching mode, so what else could it be?
 
Ranger X said:
All the enhancements and such are turned off already. My sharpness setting is at 50/100 (default) and does not cause problems with other old consoles.
If i drop the sharpness under 30 it gets blurry. :(

Unfortunately, if you have post-processing off, and have turned the sharpness down to the point of blurring and its still there ... its likely the scaling.

Not much you can do about I'm afraid.
 
Onix said:
Unfortunately, if you have post-processing off, and have turned the sharpness down to the point of blurring and its still there ... its likely the scaling.

Not much you can do about I'm afraid.
Yep. A lot of flat panels simply do a poor job with lower resolution material. Ringing is one of those common flaws. There's likely nothing that can be done about it.
 
Spasm said:
It USED to do linear widescreen stretching. I think that changed with an update. That's my theory. My TV does not have a non-linear AR stretching mode, so what else could it be?

I have no idea - my Wii has always properly scaled to 16:9 when I set it to 480p widescreen. Are you sure you don't have a distorted stretch mode set on your TV end? For example, if I set my Toshiba to "TheaterWide 1" as opposed to "Full", I would get the effect you describe.
 
dark10x said:
Yep. A lot of flat panels simply do a poor job with lower resolution material. Ringing is one of those common flaws. There's likely nothing that can be done about it.

*Cries*

Than why is the PS2 not ringing when plugged on the very same TV??
Seriously the Wii sucks. I have to play in 480i so it actually look BETTER.
 
dark10x said:
Yep. A lot of flat panels simply do a poor job with lower resolution material. Ringing is one of those common flaws. There's likely nothing that can be done about it.

Sadly, even most high-end processors add noticeable ringing when going from 480->1080. Lumagen is the only company with the balls to claim no-ringing.



Ranger X said:
*Cries*

Than why is the PS2 not ringing when plugged on the very same TV??
Seriously the Wii sucks. I have to play in 480i so it actually look BETTER.

Are you using game mode? Its possible they type of deinterlace/scaling combo used for 480i material doesn't produce ringing. Of course what comes with that is poorer image quality?

Not sure.
 
Spasm said:
It USED to do linear widescreen stretching. I think that changed with an update. That's my theory. My TV does not have a non-linear AR stretching mode, so what else could it be?

No it's perfectly fine. It's your TV settings. Fiddle with them using the Wii menu, it's actually awesome to test that since you can look at the channels and compare their shape all over the screen.
 
Ranger X said:
No it's perfectly fine. It's your TV settings. Fiddle with them using the Wii menu, it's actually awesome to test that since you can look at the channels and compare their shape all over the screen.
Well, I haven't tried widescreen since the last update... till just now. It DOES indeed look linearly stretched. But as Jebus as my witness, I did not imagine the whole thing. A friend who plays his a lot more than me actually told me about it. And yeah, the channels looked like little 4:3 TVs at the center, and 16:9 TVs at the edges.

New theory. They started with linear, went to warped, then back to linear in cause it looked so shitty. :D
 
Onix said:
Sadly, even most high-end processors add noticeable ringing when going from 480->1080. Lumagen is the only company with the balls to claim no-ringing.





Are you using game mode? Its possible they type of deinterlace/scaling combo used for 480i material doesn't produce ringing. Of course what comes with that is poorer image quality?

Not sure.

I have the Samsung LN40A550. There's no game mode but the menu is gentle enough to let you turn off all the stuff manually. (wich i did of course)
 
Seeing as I'm gonna upgrade to component cables tomorrow in honour of Wario Land.
Is the risk of image distortion lower on a 720p set?
 
Spasm said:
New theory. They started with linear, went to warped, then back to linear in cause it looked so shitty. :D

I've played widescreen games on every single NA Wii firmware and my Wii has never once output non-linear scaling. I don't think it's even possible for a Wii firmware update to affect this globally - how the widescreen setting is handled by the software is determined by each individual title. MM9, the first Trauma Center, Mario Party 8 and Wario Shake all do pillarboxing instead of anamorphic WS for example.
 
Easy_D said:
Seeing as I'm gonna upgrade to component cables tomorrow in honour of Wario Land.
Is the risk of image distortion lower on a 720p set?

Logically yes. But still, the shittier your TV upscale, the more you'll have ringing and other problems.
 
I have to leave my Wii to 480i too when plugged with component cables for the better PQ. I had to do the same thing with my PS2. Leave your TV do the job at deinterlacing. I have a Sony LCD btw.
 
All systems will have this problem on your display, it's nothing specific to the Wii. However, it is more obvious when you have a high contrast image on the screen (e.g. black text on a white background) so it may be more obvious when using the Wii.

Samsung displays generally have quite poor SD handling with very ‘ringy’ scaling compared to other manufacturers.

Here's an example off a fairly recent Samsung LCD that has been set up properly. (sharpness at 0, edge enhancement and other picture enhancements disabled etc.)

 
65536 said:
All systems will have this problem on your display, it's nothing specific to the Wii. However, it is more obvious when you have a high contrast image on the screen (e.g. black text on a white background) so it may be more obvious when using the Wii.

Samsung displays generally have quite poor SD handling with very ‘ringy’ scaling compared to other manufacturers.

Here's an example off a fairly recent Samsung LCD that has been set up properly. (sharpness at 0, edge enhancement and other picture enhancements disabled etc.)


I found my problem. My TV is properly set. The ringing problem is not bothersome anymore if i play the Wii in 4:3 (or the PS2)
Since they zoom and cut the image (fake 16:9), the Wii and PS2 were looking shittier than they were supposed to. Now in 4:3 is looking good (like in your picture).
 
Spasm said:
It USED to do linear widescreen stretching. I think that changed with an update. That's my theory. My TV does not have a non-linear AR stretching mode, so what else could it be?

ROTFL

Sorry but no.

Wait, actually I'm not sorry and neither you should be since there's hope, you can fix it because the Wii manages perfectly linear anamorphic widescreen. :)
 
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