Unknown?
Member
The Shadow campaign is better than the rereleased game though. They had to include it for length reasons.
Also Sonic Superstars is just as good as Mania.
This press persecution of SEGA irritates me, it's been 25 years of attacks, camouflaged as ''history'' and ''analysis'' of the company's memory.
- Thread starter Geometric-Crusher
- Start date
Also Sonic Superstars is just as good as Mania.
They do it because negativity drives engagement. Doing these videos and articles must be getting a lot of clicks for them, so they keep doing it. If you don't want to see them anymore, you and the other Sega fans need to stop engaging and drawing attention to these videos and articles.
MMaRsu
Member
But Shadow is fucking stupid.
I want Sonic. I don't need to play as his shitty friends, Knuckles and Tails were good but damn keep it at that.
They lost me at Sonic with guns. I always found Shadow stupid, just when it came out
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
The important thing is the concept, Shadow campaign is better than any 3d Sonic game, so the next Sonic game that uses this formula will be the best Sonic game.
Unknown?
Member
You're stuck in some 2010 thought process. Also there were people who said tails and knuckles were too much and shouldn't have been created. Just a really silly take.
You don't have to like Shadow but if you think he's stupid then I guess Metal Sonic is too...
MMaRsu
Member
But Metal Sonic was in Sonic 3
And he's just a worse robot version of Sonic, made by Robotnik in line with his other lame robots that never amount to anything
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Crayon
Member
Maybe they could have survived the cd and 32x. The dreamcast was dead before it came out, though. Reason being, people really, really liked their ps1's. It was hard to even ride out the generation with a saturn. At a time where it was less common to own more than one console, a lot of people actually got a ps1 to replace their saturn that was running out of gas.
This is a thing people don't realize enough. People carrying a torch for sega have always cited ps2 hype as the reason buyers flocked to ps2. That's true in a way. But the lie is that this was all due to sony making boisterous claims about the upcoming ps2. How is that explanation necessary at all when you account for how incredibly successful the ps1 was and how much the saturn lagged behind?
While some consoles get shelved before the user replaces them, strong releases were still coming out for ps1 when the dreamcast came along and the saturn was well behind in the rear view mirror. People were playing those ps1's till the day they brought that ps2 home.
Customer satisfaction is what made the ps2 sell like crazy and the dreamcast sink.
This is a thing people don't realize enough. People carrying a torch for sega have always cited ps2 hype as the reason buyers flocked to ps2. That's true in a way. But the lie is that this was all due to sony making boisterous claims about the upcoming ps2. How is that explanation necessary at all when you account for how incredibly successful the ps1 was and how much the saturn lagged behind?
While some consoles get shelved before the user replaces them, strong releases were still coming out for ps1 when the dreamcast came along and the saturn was well behind in the rear view mirror. People were playing those ps1's till the day they brought that ps2 home.
Customer satisfaction is what made the ps2 sell like crazy and the dreamcast sink.
SweetTooth
Banned
Man Nintendo is paying billions then!
nkarafo
Member
It was a console disguised as an addon. Which hurt it's reach.
Never heard anyone ever saying that.
It's just a bad deflection for Sonic's shitty friends in later games.
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Magic Carpet
Gold Member
Time for the Pink Hedgehog to get her own game.
Stronger than Sonic and Faster than Knuckles. More irritating than Tails.
She's the total package.
Stronger than Sonic and Faster than Knuckles. More irritating than Tails.
She's the total package.
bender
What time is it?
diffusionx
Gold Member
I think for the most part the CD and 32X was ignored. If you were a kid at the time, you couldn't afford either, like if you got a Genesis in 1991 for Christmas your parents weren't buying you a Sega CD in 1992. I also am of the opinion that the Sega CD was lowkey great at the time and was generally liked by people and it has gotten a bad rape since, mostly because FMV games understandably losttheir luster. So maybe I'm biased.
The 32X, nobody cared about. Totally irrelevant, t otally flopped. The real issue here is the Saturn struggled out of the gate and SEGA OF AMERICA ABANDONED IT. By 1997 we were getting fuck all in terms of new Saturn games while great PSX games were coming out weekly. All the good Saturn games were in Japan. So people went and said fuck it I'm getting a PSX, and all those people, the chance of them getting a Dreamcast was totally zero.
Sethbacca
Member
On a positive note for you Sega fans, the failure of Xbox seems to be on track to make the failure of Sega look small by comparison. So these videos will probably be supplanted by Microsoft variants of the same story in the coming decades.
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ozz ex machina
Member
OP - we get it. You think sonic is really cool and always have done. It's been noted and your name has been added to the list. Thankyou for making us aware of your affliction.
Crayon
Member
It's a good point that the CD and 32x couldn't do all that much damage when not that many people even bought them. It was down to people feeling like they bought the wrong system when they ended up with the saturn. PlayStation was the thing to have, and even N64 what's that occasional world beating game drops.
StreetsofBeige
Member
The only main console company with a shitload of arcade games to back it up (both games and profits as at the time their arcade division was making good coin). All they had to do is ride off the back of them and perk them up with extra content or a twist for the home market. Sony had to make all their games from scratch.
Instead, Sega basically just tries to replicate the arcade games for consoles with no lasting appeal.
Even DC was a strategic blunder. Good system, good gamepad, $200 price. But then they borked up third party support where so many of them barely made games (or none). The system sold well right away so gamers were there.
Instead, Sega basically just tries to replicate the arcade games for consoles with no lasting appeal.
Even DC was a strategic blunder. Good system, good gamepad, $200 price. But then they borked up third party support where so many of them barely made games (or none). The system sold well right away so gamers were there.
Skifi28
Member
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Er, Sega released loads of longform/home/non arcade games themselves, on Saturn alone we got 2x Dragon Force, 3x Shining Force III, Shining the Holy Ark, Deep Fear, The Legend of Oasis, Panzer Dragoon Saga, 2x Sakura Wars and more (hell, Shenmue would have been on it had it lasted), as well as many other 2nd & 3rd party games they published, or not (as for racing & arcade ports, Saturn was dead before Gran Turismo changed trends, that's why many of them didn't even get translated). Even the arcade style home only titles like NiGHTS or Panzer Dragoon Zwei clearly had thought put into replayability and longer gameplay and story telling than the average arcade focused game. Of course I'd adore something like a Namco style Sega Rally home faux sequel with a longer championship mode (like Dreamcast's Sega Rally 2 did get, which was pretty great despite some of its tech issues - use the 30fps cap cheat to play) over more Daytona attempts and some other Saturn releases but oh well, it was great output for one company. The era's best attach rates were 10-15:1, even with rentals & region restrictions Saturn had more ace games, in any style, than anyone could play.
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Polygonal_Sprite
Member
Since when is a 70 metacritic "really good" lol…
Unknown?
Member
Nah, the whole "shitty friends" narrative is 2010s edgelord fan fiction. Get with the times.
cireza
Member
The amount on control Nintendo have over communication for their brand is most certainly the highest.
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TransTrender
Gold Member
I disagree with the OP because Sega is constantly fucking themselves.
Even if 10% of the stuff Matt McMuscles says is true on his What Happened series regarding a Sega game or hardware platform then there's more than enough evidence they are their worst enemy and deserve the criticism.
Even if 10% of the stuff Matt McMuscles says is true on his What Happened series regarding a Sega game or hardware platform then there's more than enough evidence they are their worst enemy and deserve the criticism.
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JPSLotus97T
Member
The Dreamcast suffered from bad timing. 1998/1999 for a new console was probably the worst time period of that decade since things were starting to gear up for the PS2. Going with a DVD drive for the PS2 pretty much killed the Dreamcast. Though I suppose Sega could have pivoted to carving out its own niche at that time were they so inclined. But it probably would have required pushing a lot of Naomi arcade ports and the like, which is a shame because if they had kept the focus on an arcade machine for home and worked on getting other easy to jump into single player games, I think the Dreamcast could have survived till 2003 or thereabouts. Might have saved us the Xbox from ever existing. Then again, looking at the console market for the roughly last 20-25 years, I am not sure it would have been able to support 3 consoles at any point. MS managed up till now thanks to their money, but given how things are going there, it looks like we are reaching the end of the road for MS as a major console market player and we'll be back to 2 consoles taking up the market for the most part.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Dreamcast was doomed before it even came out. They did the worst thing you could do which was antagonize your customers and chase them into the arms of a competitor.
Dreamcast in a vacuum did everything right, didn't matter. They pissed off everyone.
Sonic Frontiers is good, but was obviously rushed. It could have been so much more. I've bought it, but have yet to play Shadow Generations, but I hear it's fun! I certainly won't mind playing through Sonic Generations again, unless they screwed it up. Too many games, not enough time.
Saturn Dragon
Member
It's just youtubers that know shit about Sega.
Saturn and Dreamcast didn't die. They just couldn't keep up with the biggest videogame monster ever created: SONY.
Saturn and Dreamcast didn't die. They just couldn't keep up with the biggest videogame monster ever created: SONY.
March Climber
Member
The gaming community runs too heavily on nostalgia and it is partially causing a detrimental effect to the large number of newer games coming out.
One thing that the PS360 generation did wrong was create a generation of gamers who are only used to high budget cinematic experiences with multiplayer, and thus a large amount of that generation doesn't care about the quirky stuff that the generations before used to try out on a whim, unless it's been heavily pushed by word of mouth as a 'flavor of the year' type of indie game.
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Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
you didn't understand in fact many users missed the point. The center of the debate in this thread is not SEGA's so-called mistakes but a fight for the truth, it is ridiculous how IGN and other media groups have the agenda of demonizing the SEGA brand through the constant construction and repetition of a biased narrative.
It's time to change the narrative, the modern Sega Sammy is better, bigger and more capable than the Sega of IGN, the Sega of blogs and channels.
Sega is fine now okay and that's the narrative that matters.
It's time to change the narrative, the modern Sega Sammy is better, bigger and more capable than the Sega of IGN, the Sega of blogs and channels.
Sega is fine now okay and that's the narrative that matters.
cartman414
Member
The gamepad was a step down from the Saturn 3d pad, and the $200 price was something they could not afford at a time they were in the red.
Crayon
Member
Oh you mean now? Yeah they're fine. The failure of the dreamcast is a big historic thing, though. It's like our pearl harbor. That's immediately what everyone thinks when sega is brought up. It does overshadow anything they have done since. Being a pretty good publisher is not super interesting.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Us Sega fans are practically political prisoners.
Azure Crystal Gaming
Member
While I was more of a Nintendo and PlayStation fan, I loved the Dreamcast. It was my first and sadly last Sega Console.
diffusionx
Gold Member
nobody is demonizing Sega now, everyone knows it's a different company.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
They fear SEGA?!
LMAO. What are you smoking? Do you really think IGN are scared of SEGA? Why? Fucking lol.
I'm not an IGN fan, but if they really hated or feared SEGA, do you think they'd be giving SEGA games decent reviews? Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth was given a 9/10 by IGN.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Most IGN writers are scared of their own genitals, so I can understand the sentiment.
LavitzSlambert
Member
Imagine having a revisionist history where Sega didn't consistently shit the bed and architect their own removal as a viable platform.
Hero_Select
Member
You're falling for the bait
wowbaggerBR
Member
Sites will keep publishing the amazing ways Sega fucked things up beyond all reason because this sort of content generates clicks.
Do you know why? It's because it's always fascinating to people to learn stories of abject failure and Sega is/was really outstanding at coming up with new ones.
There's a whole new generation ready to learn how stupid Sega was with their products to a point where outright killing them was the only option remaining.
Do you know why? It's because it's always fascinating to people to learn stories of abject failure and Sega is/was really outstanding at coming up with new ones.
There's a whole new generation ready to learn how stupid Sega was with their products to a point where outright killing them was the only option remaining.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Agreed. Reading the OP while sober this morning, it does come across as a poor trolling attempt.
Sega was losing money since 96-97 in more than 300 million dollars every year, not even their arcade business was doing massively hot as it did with Daytona USA and Virtua Fighter, Model 3 was less successful than Naomi for example, and they had misses with their amusement parks investment worldwide that they were stuck with until early 00s.
The higher ups knew by 98-99 that they only had one year to turn around and even Bernie Stolar had done preliminary deals with Acclaim for Nintendo 64 ports of Crazy Taxi and VF3 without Sega of Japan knowledge, this would then turn into the western publishing of F355 Challenge by the company, and finally months later with the first PS2 ports. Gamespot reported this all way back in 99 but the author, James Mielke, had to state it as a rumor because he wouldn't name his Acclaim and Sega US sources who where from the same building/neighborhood.
Despite selling pretty well at its US launch, the Dreamcast slipped behind even the Nintendo 64 yearly figures pretty quick, it was selling around twice as fast as the Saturn but Sega needed more, it didn't help they were losing like 50 dollars per unit in an attempt to make everyone to forgive them for their previous mess.
The higher ups knew by 98-99 that they only had one year to turn around and even Bernie Stolar had done preliminary deals with Acclaim for Nintendo 64 ports of Crazy Taxi and VF3 without Sega of Japan knowledge, this would then turn into the western publishing of F355 Challenge by the company, and finally months later with the first PS2 ports. Gamespot reported this all way back in 99 but the author, James Mielke, had to state it as a rumor because he wouldn't name his Acclaim and Sega US sources who where from the same building/neighborhood.
Despite selling pretty well at its US launch, the Dreamcast slipped behind even the Nintendo 64 yearly figures pretty quick, it was selling around twice as fast as the Saturn but Sega needed more, it didn't help they were losing like 50 dollars per unit in an attempt to make everyone to forgive them for their previous mess.
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nial
Member
That sounds nothing like the Dreamcast, and Sega literally can't produce as many games as they did in 1999 and 2000 (and the same could be said for Sony and Nintendo).
JimboJones
Member
Sony would be paying trillions but you do it all for free, your missing out.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
yes, you're right
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