Titanfall ditching CoD shooter tropes

Grief.exe said:
Why do console games have auto aim?

I would imagine for an everyone can win mentality, but that just sounds horrible for competitive play.
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Some games enable you to disable aim-assist on consoles. I did well at PC shooters but aiming on a console with analogs without any magnetism or aim-assist is extremely difficult against a reasonably mobile target. I still disable it when I can but I think that's because of a streak of masochism more than anything. I can absolutely understand the vast majority of players having a far more enjoyable experience with it on and it having nothing to do with everyone can win. I imagine for many people it just wouldn't be much fun. But I'd separate auto aim/aim assist and quick scoping. Quick scoping is really just a bug or exploit that has become a standard feature of CoD games since players came to rely on it. And once again quick scoping is 100% going to be in Titanfall as well. The developer said as much.

Call of Duty Ghosts prerelease quick-scoping dev commentary:
..in re-envisioning sniper rifles [for Call of Duty: Ghosts] some aspects, such as sway timing, have changed the way sniper rifles function and so traditional “quick-scoping” has been affected. Is it gone completely? Maybe. It certainly won’t be viable in the way it previously was..

Titanfall prelease quick-scoping dev commentary:
Sniping is in [Titanfall], but due to how the game plays it's a pretty different animal than you'll find in your run of the mill modern military shooter. Quick scoping and no scoping are ineffective.

Gee, notice any similarities? It's a pity people buy so much into this pre-launch hype bullshit since it encourages devs to spend more money on making promises and hand sculpted demos/vids than just making good games and letting the game speak for itself when it's finally and fully available.
 
Dire said:
Gee, notice any similarities? It's a pity people buy so much into this pre-launch hype bullshit since it encourages devs to spend more money on making promises and hand sculpted demos/vids than just making good games and letting the game speak for itself when it's finally and fully available.
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How is this hype? Its a comment made by one of the devs on their forums that addressed a specific topic. There was no money marketing spent here.

You have a chip on your shoulder.
 
Sub_Level said:
How is this hype? Its a comment made by one of the devs on their forums that addressed a specific topic. There was no money marketing spent here.

You have a chip on your shoulder.
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So you think regular devs are allowed to go around casually posting about games in development months before they're released? Let alone decisions on specific and controversial mechanics? Let me introduce you to everybody's favorite little bugger, the NDA! Suffice to say - they're not.

Especially on a game with this sort of marketing level around it, you're getting a carefully crafted picture from the ground up. That absolutely includes public posts/tweets/etc from accounts branded with the company name. And though the account's comment seems benign enough to me, it's apparently fantastically crafted to let people see it however they want. He said they're leaving in quick/auto scoping which is going to satisfy the market that enjoys that stuff, and here you have a thread of people celebrating "Titanfall ditching CoD shooter tropes." It's marketing that succeeded in leaving two inherently opposite and opposed sides both feeling like they're getting what they really want.

I mean seriously people need to wake up here, they're even using strikingly similar language which essentially comes down to:

Call of Duty: We'll have it, but it won't be viable.
Titanfall: We'll have it, but it won't be effective.
 
Everything about this game seems great. This and playing old ps2 games (Bully, GTA's, Psychonauts) is driving me to build a pc.
 
Dire said:
He said they're leaving in quick/auto scoping which is going to satisfy the market that enjoys that stuff, and here you have a thread of people celebrating "Titanfall ditching CoD shooter tropes."
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I've already criticized the wording of the thread title, though, repeatedly in the thread. I'm with you on that one. I just don't think this is some kind of slick marketing move. Even if it turns out that quickscoping is still viable in Titanfall, that doesn't retroactively prove that this forum post was meant to lure people in as you're suggesting. It's a dev making a comment that may or may not be accurate (or accurate to peoples' expectations). And neither you nor I know the details of their ndas lol and how strict they are. It's a fairly benign comment made on their official forums, where other tidbits of information have likely also been released. If it breaks the rules that's their problem.

I think the rational thing to do is wait and see and hope there's a quick public beta before launch or at least weekend trials on Xbox Live/Origin. Haven't preordered myself yet.

Also you're really underestimating word of mouth if the game turns out to be shit. It's no coincidence that Ghosts is not as successful as Blops 2 (no offense to Ghosts fans :p)
 
I'm going to have to just take their word for it, because everything they've shown just looks like call of duty with mech's.
 
Dire said:
So you think regular devs are allowed to go around casually posting about games in development months before they're released?
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Obviously you're welcome to think what you want, but that's exactly what a lot of us at Respawn do on our forum. That is also exactly what happened here. No master PR and marketing plan. Just a designer who saw a question and answered it as well as he thought he would be allowed to. We even had a good chuckle in his office when I told him about this thread. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Lots of insane theories and assumptions about how games are made and "marketed" going around. Reality is (for us, at least) we're just a bunch of dudes having fun making something we like to play. Oh well, speculate away! Can't wait for everyone to play the game in a couple months!
 
DKo5 said:
Obviously you're welcome to think what you want, but that's exactly what a lot of us at Respawn do on our forum. That is also exactly what happened here. No master PR and marketing plan. Just a designer who saw a question and answered it as well as he thought he would be allowed to. We even had a good chuckle in his office when I told him about this thread. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Lots of insane theories and assumptions about how games are made and "marketed" going around. Reality is (for us, at least) we're just a bunch of dudes having fun making something we like to play. Oh well, speculate away! Can't wait for everyone to play the game in a couple months!
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I can't wait to play it either. Heh it is funny yeah how people can speculate like that.
 
Grief.exe said:
I want to go back and play the MW1 and COD2 campaigns as those tend to be lauded as the best of the series. I have a feeling they won't hold up in my eyes.
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I played the MW1 campaign this summer. The first time I touched a CoD since CoD2 came out (I really really liked CoD1,UO and 2 back then) and sadly I had a rather annoying experience. It's cool that people enjoy it, but this formula is not for me anymore it seems. Mind you this was only the SP, haven't touched the MP.

Out of the 3 shooters I played this summer (MW1, Bulletstorm and Minerva:Metastasis) I thought the latter held up the best.
 
Coxswain said:
Guns that let you shoot with full accuracy while running are fundamental to a shooter that isn't broken. I mean, you can have them and still have a game that is broken, but you can't have a game that isn't broken that doesn't have them.
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I disagree. IMHO, a properly balanced shooter should always have a trade-off for mobility vs. lethality. Counter-Strike, one of the best competitive shooters ever created, doesn't allow for perfect accuracy while being mobile.

There are many other games that don't have fully accurate shooting on the run, such as the Tom Clancy/SOCOM series and even pre-BF4 Battlefield games. They're becoming the minority though. The masses seem to prefer COD style constant run-n-gun style gameplay and loathe anything that makes them have to stop and think.
 
DKo5 said:
Obviously you're welcome to think what you want, but that's exactly what a lot of us at Respawn do on our forum. That is also exactly what happened here. No master PR and marketing plan. Just a designer who saw a question and answered it as well as he thought he would be allowed to. We even had a good chuckle in his office when I told him about this thread. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Lots of insane theories and assumptions about how games are made and "marketed" going around. Reality is (for us, at least) we're just a bunch of dudes having fun making something we like to play. Oh well, speculate away! Can't wait for everyone to play the game in a couple months!
Click to expand...

Hey thanks for the clarification! Quick question. Aren't you the guy in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F8kI_kWIMk also clarifying that Titanfall would be impossible without the power of the magical Microsoft cloud and stating and I quote: "We wont get all the nice-ities on PCs that you get on Xbox One. There will be some re-engineering things."

Oh curious that video seems to be temporarily unavailable. Well you need only search the internet for your quote for a million sources. Anyhow, glad to hear you're just a bunch of dudes having fun making something without any real concerted PR crap getting in the way! Right on!
 
I can't say if this is akin to MMO developers saying "Our MMO is going to be totally different from other MMOs, it won't have any of those dumb things that you hate!" and then the game releasing and selling copies and everyone realizing it's the same old garbage or if it's legitimately the devs trying to make a different, good game. Why is there so little footage of Titanfall? All we've seen is one map and a couple walkthroughs of it. Isn't this game coming out in 2 months or so? I've heard so much "Trust me, this is the best game ever!" and "These game mechanics are completely mind-blowing and different" but so little gameplay. Why tell when you can just show?
 
Sub_Level said:
Don't buy it, saw some strange looking contrails in the sky the other day. Sink water tasted funny too.



A lot of people had plenty of fun with CoD4 and MW2. Sorry :(
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How did you deduce from my post that I was trying to imply that COD4 and MW2 were not fun? I had a lot of fun with COD4. Also, WoW was very fun when it first came out, but when games are still trying to copy its mechanics with minor twists 6 years after its release, the same shtick kind of gets old, which was what I was referring to.

The meat of my post was the following, anyway:

nynt9 said:
Why is there so little footage of Titanfall? All we've seen is one map and a couple walkthroughs of it. Isn't this game coming out in 2 months or so? I've heard so much "Trust me, this is the best game ever!" and "These game mechanics are completely mind-blowing and different" but so little gameplay. Why tell when you can just show?
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nynt9 said:
How did you deduce from my post that COD4 and MW2 were not fun? I had a lot of fun with COD4. Also, WoW was very fun when it first came out, but when games are still trying to copy its mechanics with minor twists 6 years after its release, the same shtick kind of gets old.
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Sorry, I misinterpreted your post and was defensive. Any cod past 4 tends to get a significant amount of vitriol (which is fine, the popularity of the series certainly led to less-than-ideal trends in fps game design) but it's always expressed with an almost objective tone, like those games WERE shit period and if you like them you're a shit eater lol. That method of conversation has it's place too, but it's generally best left to the likes of 4chan.

It's hard to say how close to CoD it will be. Filling xp bars and ads is obviously in, which automatically puts entire groups of people off, but like you said there's only two real scripted trailers to go by so we'll have to wait and see. Personally, quickscoping doesn't bother me that much; it was never a significant problem in cod and good snipers in counter-strike or team fortress 2 are far more likely to actually mean something in regards to who wins the game. I'm more concerned about the day 1 dlc and microtransactions. Just waiting for that moment when gamestop preorder bonus map gets announced ._. (if its like a costume skin or whatever then cool)
 
Sub_Level said:
Sorry, I misinterpreted your post and was defensive. Any cod past 4 tends to get a significant amount of vitriol (which is fine, the popularity of the series certainly led to less-than-ideal trends in fps game design) but it's always expressed with an almost objective tone, like those games WERE shit period and if you like them you're a shit eater lol. That method of conversation has it's place too, but it's generally best left to the likes of 4chan.

It's hard to say how close to CoD it will be. Filling xp bars and ads is obviously in, which automatically puts entire groups of people off, but like you said there's only two real scripted trailers to go by so we'll have to wait and see. Personally, quickscoping doesn't bother me that much; it was never a significant problem in cod and good snipers in counter-strike or team fortress 2 are far more likely to actually mean something in regards to who wins the game. I'm more concerned about the day 1 dlc and microtransactions. Just waiting for that moment when gamestop preorder bonus map gets announced ._. (if its like a costume skin or whatever then cool)
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Oh yeah, being MS exclusive, published by EA and online only, I'm almost certain this game will include microtransactions and day 1 DLC. I've already given up being worried on that since it's more or less unavoidable in my mind, but I'm actually starting to get concerned if the gameplay is any good at all since we're getting closer to the release and there's not that much footage of the game available. I'm wondering if the devs are rushed and we'll have another BF4-like debacle, if the game won't be good at all, or if it will be delayed.

Maybe it'll be fine, all of the worries I expressed could easily be addressed by showing more of the game instead of telling us how awesome it is.

Edit: Scratch that about Day 1 DLC and microtransactions, see post below me.
 
Chobel said:
But Respawn themselves said Titanfall won't feature day-one DLC or microtransactions.
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That was stated long before EA secretly went behind Respawn's back and made an exclusivity deal with Microsoft. I doubt we'll see preorder bonus maps though. Critical mass - in other words ensuring any player can get paired against a comparably skilled group of players in a reasonable time frame - is going to be crucial for the game's success and day 1 bonus maps work against that by splintering the playerbase.
 
Chobel said:
But Respawn themselves said Titanfall won't feature day-one DLC or microtransactions.
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Yeah I know I posted that earlier in the thread lol. Here's hoping they don't backtrack on it.

Metalingus5150 said:
Doesn't this game have a pistol that automatically targets people without you having to aim?
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I believe that you can use it against npcs only, not pilots, and you must play as a tactician to have that pistol (which counts as a primary weapon). I'm certain of the second part, mostly certain but not completely sure of the first.
9638958268_69e39af952.jpg
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Dire said:
That was stated long before EA secretly went behind Respawn's back and made an exclusivity deal with Microsoft. I doubt we'll see preorder bonus maps though. Critical mass - in other words ensuring any player can get paired against a comparably skilled group of players in a reasonable time frame - is going to be crucial for the game's success and day 1 bonus maps work against that by splintering the playerbase.
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Really?

you really think EA went behind Respawn's back on a complete lockdown deal? Like Zampella was going to let a pub push around it's weight like Activision did a few years ago? Their not stupid. That deal to make it a full lockdown title was known well before it hit the mainstream. It wasn't out of the blue
 
Gorillaz said:
Really?

you really think EA went behind Respawn's back on a complete lockdown deal? Like Zampella was going to let a pub push around it's weight like Activision did a few years ago? Their not stupid. That deal to make it a full lockdown title was known well before it hit the mainstream. It wasn't out of the blue
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https://twitter.com/VinceZampella/status/395325209521029120

Always MS exclusive at launch, great partner and focus is good for a startup. EA made a deal for the rest, we only found out recently =(

-Zampella
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antitrop said:
The problem with Ghosts multiplayer is that the maps are designed in such a way that you can never reasonably cover all possible danger areas without camping.

It's not fun and deaths feel random and unfair, unless you're a camp whore.
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You can't really camp in CoD. They spawn enemies on your back.
 
Gorillaz said:
Really?

you really think EA went behind Respawn's back on a complete lockdown deal? Like Zampella was going to let a pub push around it's weight like Activision did a few years ago? Their not stupid. That deal to make it a full lockdown title was known well before it hit the mainstream. It wasn't out of the blue
Click to expand...

The deal to release it with MS as a partner exclusively on MS platforms at first was known, not lifetime lockdown. Also, it's "they're" :| (sorry just sayin')

SapientWolf said:
You can't really camp in CoD. They spawn enemies on your back.
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Haven't played Ghosts myself, but I'd say it depends on the game type, no? Can't imagine camping would be super effective in FFA or TDM, but in an objective game mode like Search or Blitz wouldn't it be?
 
Will Titanfall have custom servers? At this point this is the only thing that is preventing me from pre-ordering.
 
Notice the

+25
+25
+25

in the gif. 25 is what you get for npcs, 500 is for human opponents based on the trailers.
 
Dire said:
So you think regular devs are allowed to go around casually posting about games in development months before they're released? Let alone decisions on specific and controversial mechanics? Let me introduce you to everybody's favorite little bugger, the NDA! Suffice to say - they're not.

Especially on a game with this sort of marketing level around it, you're getting a carefully crafted picture from the ground up. That absolutely includes public posts/tweets/etc from accounts branded with the company name. And though the account's comment seems benign enough to me, it's apparently fantastically crafted to let people see it however they want. He said they're leaving in quick/auto scoping which is going to satisfy the market that enjoys that stuff, and here you have a thread of people celebrating "Titanfall ditching CoD shooter tropes." It's marketing that succeeded in leaving two inherently opposite and opposed sides both feeling like they're getting what they really want.

I mean seriously people need to wake up here, they're even using strikingly similar language which essentially comes down to:

Call of Duty: We'll have it, but it won't be viable.
Titanfall: We'll have it, but it won't be effective.
Click to expand...

You've got to admire the craft of the PR guys over there.
 
DKo5 said:
Obviously you're welcome to think what you want, but that's exactly what a lot of us at Respawn do on our forum. That is also exactly what happened here. No master PR and marketing plan. Just a designer who saw a question and answered it as well as he thought he would be allowed to. We even had a good chuckle in his office when I told him about this thread. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Lots of insane theories and assumptions about how games are made and "marketed" going around. Reality is (for us, at least) we're just a bunch of dudes having fun making something we like to play. Oh well, speculate away! Can't wait for everyone to play the game in a couple months!
Click to expand...

Albert. Penello.
 
Dire said:
Hey thanks for the clarification! Quick question. Aren't you the guy in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F8kI_kWIMk also clarifying that Titanfall would be impossible without the power of the magical Microsoft cloud and stating and I quote: "We wont get all the nice-ities on PCs that you get on Xbox One. There will be some re-engineering things."

Oh curious that video seems to be temporarily unavailable. Well you need only search the internet for your quote for a million sources. Anyhow, glad to hear you're just a bunch of dudes having fun making something without any real concerted PR crap getting in the way! Right on!
Click to expand...

That is indeed me, and I've had to clarify that quote a few times now.

At the time I was under the impression that some of the things that we get "for free" from the MS Cloud service were going to have to be done by hand by us on PC. Thats not the case now and we're using the same stuff for both X1 and PC.

nynt9 said:
Why is there so little footage of Titanfall? All we've seen is one map and a couple walkthroughs of it. Isn't this game coming out in 2 months or so? I've heard so much "Trust me, this is the best game ever!" and "These game mechanics are completely mind-blowing and different" but so little gameplay. Why tell when you can just show?
Click to expand...

If you check our Youtube channel you'll see there are two gameplay videos showing two maps for a total of almost 10 minutes of unedited gameplay footage. Not to mention the announce trailer, a behind the scenes video, and three Titan chassis videos - all with more footage from the game adding up to something like 20+ minutes of game being shown. I know everyone won't be happy until there's a constant live stream from my desk on Twitch every time I'm playing - but thats a lot of footage compared to most unreleased games months before release.

We've actually gone to great lengths to not just make "trailers" but really show off the gameplay with the footage we've released. As you mentioned, there's lots of "you have to see/experience it to understand" that comes with Titanfall, which is why we took an extremely early pre-Alpha build to something like 8 press and consumer events during the summer and fall to let people get hands on time with the game, as that speaks way louder than any video can.
 
What vid is that pistol gif from?
Dire said:
https://twitter.com/VinceZampella/status/395325209521029120
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Yea I know about the tweet already, like I said Zampella is smart, he isn't the type to get fucked ove like that, again. He probably already know something was going down and wanted to damage control it. It would have made more ripples in the water if it was a complete out of nowhere deal
Sub_Level said:
The deal to release it with MS as a partner exclusively on MS platforms at first was known, not lifetime lockdown. Also, it's "they're" :| (sorry just sayin')


Haven't played Ghosts myself, but I'd say it depends on the game type, no? Can't imagine camping would be super effective in FFA or TDM, but in an objective game mode like Search or Blitz wouldn't it be?
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lmao yea I know I relax a bit on professionalism when typing on forums. I spend all day with it papers in class.

Alot changes behind the scenes with deals like that tho. Alot more then we know
 
DKo5 said:
Actually, its from the E3 Behind the Scenes video :P

Here's a direct feed version:
http://eaassets-a.akamaihd.net/prod...s/RESPAWN_E3_BTS_Extended_FINAL_ESRB_x264.zip
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That was pretty great. There's been a lot of negativity regarding the graphics of the game, but I think it looks absolutely phenomenal. That art style is incredible.

Yeah, it's not Killzone: Shadow Fall, but Titanfall is one fine looking game. I really cannot wait. I haven't enjoyed Call of Duty in years and I feel like I've been waiting for Titanfall, well... since shortly after MW2 came out.
 
Game seems more colorful than e3 showing would have one believe.

It is not a technical showcase by any means, but I think it looks pretty darn slick, especially in motion.
11701453636_b8b7bc867b_o.png
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Only ever saw the direct feed footage of the e3 trailer, none of the subsequent footage until now.
 
Grief.exe said:
Why do console games have auto aim?
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Because dual analog is a garbage as fuck imprecise/inaccurate control scheme for shooters.

Without any aim assist, most people wouldn't be able to hit a pig in the ass with a handful of pebbles from 20 feet.

The vast majority of the player base getting frustrated because they (and/or the control scheme) suck is bad for business.
 
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