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TLOU Ending or: How I learned to Stop Worrying and Love the End

SPOILERS
obviously.
SPOILERS

the%20last%20of%20us%20ending.jpg


Last Summer I played through TLOU. My wife watched me play most of it as the characters and story were both griping and full of life. The game's story, characters, pacing, setting, world, detail, music, graphics, art, writing; it was all fantastic. I really felt like I was Joel and I really felt that I needed to help Ellie on our big goal to find a cure. I felt as if my relationship with Ellie grew as Joel's did. I felt like the motivation to push onward were one in the same. I very rarely feel "immersed" in games or feel as if I am the character, but that's exactly what happened.

Then came the end of the Fall chapter. Escaping the university. Bloody, injured, barely surviving. I felt adrenaline pumping through me trying all I could to get us out. That brutal impaling scene with the iron rod. I was almost shouting at the tv rooting for Joel to get up and keep pressing on. The game really felt like I was going through all of this.

Winter. Now I'm Ellie. I loved playing in Ellie's shoes this chapter. It really felt as if her whole life was leading up to finding this cure and she would stop at nothing to reach the end. She's shown how much she had grown and came into being her own woman and I feel like giving control of Ellie to the player really helped express how strong she was and how far she had come. Very well done.

Spring. Back to Joel. Finally reached the end goal. Everything was so touching and it really felt like this was the end for the pair, at least for me it did. I felt as if Joel and Ellie were both ready to say goodbye. At least I was ready. I thought well Joel will realize it is for the greater good. Joel will come to his senses sooner or later. Joel will think about what Ellie would want, respect her desires, respect how much blood, sweat, and tears Ellie had put to make this happen. Joel of all people will decide that this is Ellie's choice and he can't take that away from her.

TheLastOfUs-ElliesSurgery_1_590x333.jpg


It was about 1am. My wife was in bed after asking me to let her know how it ended. I wandered around the room for a bit looking for another solution. I waited what felt like an eternity. I got put the controller down and started texting my friends asking if this was really how it ended. I paced around my house for a few minutes, contemplating just turning off the game. I hated the idea of it ending like this. The entire game was falling apart before my eyes. This journey meant nothing to me now. Eventually I pulled the trigger, both figuratively and literally. I pushed through to the end not out of the same zeal of before but out of obligation. I got this far and me turning off the console wouldnt change the ending, may as well watch the credits roll.

I went to bed and my wife woke up as I walked in. "How was it??" "Terrible. You would've hated it. Go back to sleep." Next day of course I told her and she hated it. To this day she cannot be convinced it was not one of the most disappointing endings of anything she's seen before. The ending stewed within me for weeks and months. I argued with friends and looked online for similar opinions and felt like I was going crazy. No way could people enjoy this ending! It ruins Ellie as a character! It shows a total lack of disrespect for Ellie as a person from Joel! There's no pay off! There's no real meaning other than oh yeah, Joel's a jerk haha oh well! The world will continue to burn because of his selfishness and always doing everything for himself, not even for those he grew to love. This journey meant nothing to him other than to replace what he had lost. I hated it. So much.

Not sure why or when but one day I complained about how during the impaling scene. In that scene I felt like I was Joel. Every action in from start of the game to the end of the Fall chapter really felt like I was Joel and all of my motives and actions were in sync with Joel. I felt as if I was the one on this journey with Ellie. I was just controlling some video game character through this world and story. I thought about how it contrasted to the ending where I no longer had control. I no longer was in sync. My motives no longer matched. I had no control over the actions of this character.

As much as I believed it, Joel was not me and I was not Joel. The outcome of the Fall chapter was not due to anything I accomplished. I merely pressed the buttons required to watch the scene play out. Ellie's fate was never in my hands, nor was Joel's. I could not make decisions for Joel. I could not change Joel's views nor his thoughts. I was not controlling Joel's outcomes and actions through my Dual Shock but instead Naughty Dog was controlling my actions and outcomes through their writing and directing.

Naughty Dog presented me their story in a way only this medium can provide. I was the player character being pushed to move forward and complete objectives, not Joel. Joel was merely a vessel in which they used to tell their own story to be presented to me in their own way. Me disagreeing and hating the outcome and Joel's choices is and was part of that experience. The fact that I can come to NeoGAF and tell people the ways this ending made me feel, to have you all soon now tell me that it made them feel completely opposite; that's what makes this ending so good. It's deep with a definitive ending that is also up for interpretation. It sends ripples back in time throughout the entire path we have all walked through in The Last of Us that we make reflect on all that has happened and what it all means, while setting our eyes to the future. Most importantly it touches us deeply on our own views and morals and helps us express ourselves to each other.

I hate the ending to The Last of Us and that is a great thing.
 

Veelk

Banned
One of the most significant things about empathy in videogames is that it can allow you to realize how much you are like another person while simultaneously making you realize how much you are not.

Very few games capitalize on this precious ability.
 

chitnex

Member
Don't worry, I wasn't a fan either. It felt like Joel made an incredibly selfish decision, but it's stuck with me more than most endings.
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
It always bugs me that people are upset that Joel ignored Ellie's choice, and I get that. But I also get Joel and why he did that. Yeah, it should have been her choice, and what he did was super selfish and I get that. But man, unless you've felt that kind of loss before in your life, you never really can get why he did it. To me, it wasn't so much a choice between Ellie or the world as much as living and dying. In the ending where players get the choice, I don't think they realize Joel kills himself a moment later. Because that kind of pain isn't survivable twice.
 
It always bugs me that people are upset that Joel ignored Ellie's choice, and I get that. But I also get Joel and why he did that. Yeah, it should have been her choice, and what he did was super selfish and I get that. But man, unless you've felt that kind of loss before in your life, you never really can get why he did it. To me, it wasn't so much a choice between Ellie or the world as much as living and dying. In the ending where players get the choice, I don't think they realize Joel kills himself a moment later. Because that's kind of how that pain works.

it bugs me more that people wanted the option to choose
 

Kalentan

Member
It always bugs me that people are upset that Joel ignored Ellie's choice, and I get that. But I also get Joel and why he did that. Yeah, it should have been her choice, and what he did was super selfish and I get that. But man, unless you've felt that kind of loss before in your life, you never really can get why he did it. To me, it wasn't so much a choice between Ellie or the world as much as living and dying. In the ending where players get the choice, I don't think they realize Joel kills himself a moment later. Because that's kind of how that pain works.

Uh... What Ellie's choice? You mean the choice the Fireflies gave her? Oh wait, they didn't give her any. They were so fearful that she would say no, they kept her under. All she remembered was falling in the water and then walking up in Joel's car. Yeah, he totally ignored her non-existent choice.
 

AAK

Member
It took just 2 minutes for TLOU to go from 9.5/10 -> 8/10 game for me.

Putting me in the room full of the doctors that are the most brilliant minds in the world for that setting who are the pioneers in preserving humanity and forcing me to kill them was stupid. I spent 2-3 minutes trying to get out of the room or bypass the sequence without hurting them. The fact that the game gives you control but still doesn't provide any agency to affect the outcome was so unfortunate. Ruined what would have been a very powerful final hour of the game. If they just kept it a cutscene then I never would have been given hope of invoking a different ending.

I shot one doctor on the toe and it was still instant death....
 

Veelk

Banned
In the ending where players get the choice, I don't think they realize Joel kills himself a moment later. Because that kind of pain isn't survivable twice.

Well...no, he doesn't.

His entire mantra is that "you always find a reason to survive", no matter what happens. He'd revert to his listless self of not caring for anyone, sure, but the center of Joel's character is that he survives until he finds a reason to continue surviving. To think that Joel would kill himself over this is to misunderstand his entire character arc, which revolves around this one thing that is enduring and unchanging: Always survive. Think of a reason for it later.

He'll survive, no matter what. It's just a matter of whether he'll have a soul while doing it.

Anyway, Joel made a selfish decision, and that's good storytelling, but I wouldn't bother trying to justify it morally. The reasons he made that decision are based in the relatable phenomenons of pain and fear, but that doesn't make it morally right. The thing I feel people miss is that moral rightness is not supposed to be the point. It's right for narrative reasons because that's the character Joel has been built up as through the story.
 

GametimeUK

Member
I loved the ending. I hate that Joel did what he did, but I understand why he did it. It was a fitting end to their journey and an awesome way to see how the characters had developed. I immediately related to Joel during all of this. Not because I agree with his actions, but simply because I understand them.

Brilliant.

And to the people talking about "morals" and such, you must realise that this world isn't the same the same as the civilised one we live in. It's not as if the Fireflies were necessarily nice either.
 
I like the idea of the ending, but the execution sucks. It is overly manipulative in trying to make Joel seem like he is making the right decision. They didn't need to make the fireflies seem like total assholes for no good reason. It only makes the player feel more justified in slaughtering them at the end. When really, the opposite reaction should be happening.
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Putting me in the room full of the doctors that are the most brilliant minds in the world for that setting who are the pioneers in preserving humanity and forcing me to kill them was stupid.
You don't have to kill them. Also, where did you get the idea they are the most brilliant minds? Their whole operation looks like total mess and if you read and listen to the audio recordings you can find in the hospital, it's just one failed attempt after another. Thy sound like they have no clue how to proceed in making a cure, really.

I like the idea of the ending, but the execution sucks. It is overly manipulative in trying to make Joel seem like he is making the right decision. They didn't need to make the fireflies seem like total assholes for no good reason. It only makes the player feel more justified in slaughtering them at the end. When really, the opposite reaction should be happening.
Yeah, if anything, I can agree with this. But I realize why they did it. And after all, practically no one in that world is not an asshole anymore.
 
It took just 2 minutes for TLOU to go from 9.5/10 -> 8/10 game for me.

Putting me in the room full of the doctors that are the most brilliant minds in the world for that setting who are the pioneers in preserving humanity and forcing me to kill them was stupid. I spent 2-3 minutes trying to get out of the room or bypass the sequence without hurting them. The fact that the game gives you control but still doesn't provide any agency to affect the outcome was so unfortunate. Ruined what would have been a very powerful final hour of the game. If they just kept it a cutscene then I never would have been given hope of invoking a different ending.

I shot one doctor on the toe and it was still instant death....

Those brilliant minds had already operated on others without any results. So, the only thing that really happened is that someone lost their life and others lost a loved one for no reason.
 

Flux

Member
I loved the ending. I hate that Joel did what he did, but I understand why he did it. It was a fitting end to their journey and an awesome way to see how the characters had developed. I immediately related to Joel during all of this. Not because I agree with his actions, but simply because I understand them.

Brilliant.
Yup, can't make a sequel if Joel didn't make that choice. He would be leaving money on the table like a fool!
 

hawk2025

Member
I like the idea of the ending, but the execution sucks. It is overly manipulative in trying to make Joel seem like he is making the right decision. They didn't need to make the fireflies seem like total assholes for no good reason. It only makes the player feel more justified in slaughtering them at the end, when the opposite reaction should be happening.

The doctor scene does precisely the opposite.
 

GribbleGrunger

Dreams in Digital
The most courageous and meaningful ending in video game history. That 'OK' lead to a thousand stories and interpretations. Once people understand THAT'S the point they'll understand how wonderful it is.
 

Kalentan

Member
I like the idea of the ending, but the execution sucks. It is overly manipulative in trying to make Joel seem like he is making the right decision. They didn't need to make the fireflies seem like total assholes for no good reason. It only makes the player feel more justified in slaughtering them at the end. When really, the opposite reaction should be happening.

Through out the game if you read about the fireflies, you really find is that they're hardly better than the Military Government they fight and are very incompetent.
 
Ellie's death would have been pointless. There is no way the fireflies had the means to manufacture and disperse a vaccine, even IF they were able to synthesize one, and it's really REALLY unlikely they would have been able to. Look at the state of the world...Joel made what I consider to be the moral choice (although I wouldn't have killed the doctor if I had any option).

That said I don't believe that factored into Joel's decision in the slightest, and I love that. This isn't about morality, or logic. It's about parental love in a broken world.

Fantastic ending.
 

Col.Asher

Member
It took just 2 minutes for TLOU to go from 9.5/10 -> 8/10 game for me.

Putting me in the room full of the doctors that are the most brilliant minds in the world for that setting who are the pioneers in preserving humanity and forcing me to kill them was stupid. I spent 2-3 minutes trying to get out of the room or bypass the sequence without hurting them. The fact that the game gives you control but still doesn't provide any agency to affect the outcome was so unfortunate. Ruined what would have been a very powerful final hour of the game. If they just kept it a cutscene then I never would have been given hope of invoking a different ending.

I shot one doctor on the toe and it was still instant death....

I wouldn't call them the most brilliant minds since they just went straight to killing Ellie instead of keeping her around as a living specimen. What if it was a gene mutation that Ellie can pass to her offspring?
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Ellie's death would have been pointless. There is no way the fireflies had the means to manufacture and disperse a vaccine, even IF they were able to synthesize one, and it's really REALLY unlikely they would have been able to. Look at the state of the world...Joel made what I consider to be the moral choice (although I wouldn't have killed the doctor if I had any option).

That said I don't believe that factored into Joel's decision in the slightest, and I love that. This isn't about morality, or logic. It's about parental love in a broken world.
Yeah, this reflects my thoughts on the ending to a T.
 

Flux

Member
I wouldn't call them the most brilliant minds since they just went straight to killing Ellie instead of keeping her around as a living specimen. What if it was a gene mutation that Ellie can pass to her offspring?
I don't think scientific accuracy went into the writing of the end. But I get your point. It was convenient for the plot and to enhance the shock value or weight of the decision.
 
Through out the game if you read about the fireflies, you really find is that they're hardly better than the Military Government they fight and are very incompetent.

That stuff should not exist. I think the ending would be much more powerful if the fireflies were just good guys trying to do the right thing. It would make Joel's action in destroying them far more impactful.

When the player can justify in their head "Yeah, well, the fireflies were corrupt assholes, so saving Ellie was the right choice." It sort of diminishes what the ending was trying to do in the first place.

The doctor scene does precisely the opposite.

Not really

I believe you can find files or recordings that say they aren't sure if they can even create a vaccine with Ellie. That sort of information gives the player justification to murder them.
 

AAK

Member
You don't have to kill them. Also, where did you get the idea they are the most brilliant minds? Their whole operation looks like total mess and if you read and listen to the audio recordings you can find in the hospital, it's just one failed attempt after another. Thy sound like they have no clue how to proceed in making a cure, really.

That's not at all what I inferred from the recordings. I only listened to them once so I could be wrong but I only recall hearing that none of the patients were even marginally as adept at cordycep immunity compared to Ellie. The reason they failed was because the none of the patients could have yielded as good of a result as Ellie.

But regardless if it wasn't them then who else could do it? They're the only doctors left with any practice.
 

autoduelist

Member
There is absolutely no way in hell I would have let those doctors kill her. Zero. It wasn't for the greater good, it wasn't even a sure thing. It's not like she would be the only immune person in the world, or that they would be the only ones working on a cure.

Joel only had one choice, and he made it. Anything else would have not been joel.

Anyone that choose to have their child sacrificed for the 'greater good' is a monster. And ellie clearly takes that place in joels heart.

Wouldn't have been as bad if the game had multiple endings, then that could've been the bad ending.

It's would be the good ending. Fuck the greater good, there is no way I'd let doctors kill my kid just because they might find a cure. We are surviving as it is, making a new world as it is. The bad ending is letting people convince you killing a child is worth it.


I mean, imagine if ellie was your kid, or little sister, or little brother. You're dead. Would you want some stranger to find her, save her, come to love and protect her like his own,.. then let her Die? Hell no.
 
Wouldn't have been as bad if the game had multiple endings, then that could've been the bad ending.

It would've been the good ending. The bad ending would've been when you let it happen and they didn't actually make any meaningful progress towards a vaccine (seriously... there is no way...). Then it really would've all been for nothing.
 

JusDoIt

Member
I don't know what kind of emotionless monster you have to be to expect Joel to just be like, "Yeah, you're right, kid. Go ahead and die."
 

Servbot24

Banned
The ending made me really upset actually. I hated that I had to play as Joel. And that's why I loved it.

The ending is one of my absolute favorites. Perfect ambiguity.

Hmm, I didn't think the ending was too ambiguous. That's part of why it was great though. It lays everything out and punches you in the gut in a way you didn't expect. If you're referring to plot, then yeah it was a bit open-ended, but plot is just a vessel and by the end the delivery had already been made.
 

Veelk

Banned
(although I wouldn't have killed the doctor if I had any option).

This particular sentiment is something that always puzzles me. People always refer to the doctors as people who they would have spared for some reason, even if they have no problem killing soldiers (who could be snuck around) and Marlene (who definitely wasn't a threat).

It's odd because the doctors make the same moral choice that all the other parties of the Fireflies. In fact, they are arguably the party most responsible for the decision to kill Ellie since they are the ones who inform Marlene that, based on their expertise, killing Ellie is the only way to bring about the cure. Marlene was relying on their expertise to make an informed decision...which could be either reliable or not. The likelihood of a vaccine that is iffy if you can look at it realistically, but since this is a game with some outlandish stuff despite the heavy realism, so it's perfectly possible that in the universe of LoU, they were absolutely right that they could have gotten a cure by killing her. But regardless, they're the ones who give Marlene the situation as it is, and if you are viewing it 'realistically', then they're insane for advising their leader to kill off the only potential cure to the virus instead of doing experimentation with her while alive.

The doctors in the room were the source advocates of murdering a little girl. The soldier's defended their station, Marlene ordered it, but they were the ones who were both willing and eager to do it. And when Joel was in the room, the only doctor who was standing between Joel and Ellie was an immovable obstacle who would kill Joel should he get near.

Yet it's Marlene and the Soldier's who were the expedible ones, while the doctors should have been spared? Logically, it doesn't make much sense to me why killing the former is acceptable while the latter is immoral. I personally think the moral choice was to have Ellie murdered, as much as killed me, since I have no reason to doubt that the doctors were telling the truth to the best of their ability, but if you think it was right to save Ellie and that the Fireflies were making a morally wrong choice, I don't understand how the doctors are exempt from that to the point that you'd want to spare them, while saying Joel was right to kill Marlene despite neutralizing her as a threat (regardless of what Joel says, 'realistically', Marlene was not gonna follow them in her condition and the fireflies who were able bodies would be hunting them down regardless of whether he killed marlene)
 

HAWDOKEN

Member
While I enjoyed the game and I thought the ending was interesting, the conflict at the end between Joel and the firefly leader (forgot her name) felt like an excuse for more shooting. It just felt more exhausting to me rather than moving.
 

Icolin

Banned
Oh, me too. The ending was so daring to me. I couldn't believe ND did that, and I respect them so much for it.

Yep. Even though the majority of TLOU Part II will pick up a few years later, I hope at least the prologue picks up right after this ending.
 

Minions

Member
If you listen/pick up all the audio files you learn that they have done things to other people that didn't accomplish anything. Also everyone involved with the fireflies are pretty much assholes.

http://thelastofus.wikia.com/wiki/Surgeon's_Recorder

recorder said:
April 28th. Marlene was right. The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen. The cause of her immunity is uncertain. As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenic titers of the patient's Cordyceps remain high in both the serum and the cerebrospinal fluid. Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab... however white blood cell lines, including percentages and absolute-counts, are completely normal. There is no elevation of pro-inflammatory cytokines, and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of fungal-growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany the prodrome of aggression in infected patients.

We must find a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions. We're about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. After years of wandering in circles, we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back into control of its own destiny. All of our sacrifices and the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause, or worse, will not be in vain. "

"The contents of this particular recorder shed some light on Joel's story to Ellie in the game's epilogue. The surgeon mentions "past cases", which essentially means that they have experimented on other people who were infected but were unable to find a cure, but notes that Ellie's immunity may be the key to creating a vaccine. "
 
This particular sentiment is something that always puzzles me. People always refer to the doctors as people who they would have spared for some reason, even if they have no problem killing soldiers (who could be snuck around) and Marlene (who definitely wasn't).

It's odd because the doctors make the same moral choice. In fact, they are arguably the party most responsible for the decision to kill Ellie since they are the ones who inform Marlene that, based on their expertise, killing Ellie is the only way to bring about the cure. The likelihood of accomplishing that is iffy if you look at it realistically, but since this is a game with some outlandish stuff, it's perfectly possible that in the universe of LoU, they were telling the perfect truth. But regardless, they're the ones who give Marlene the situation, and if you are viewing it 'realistically', then they're insane for advising their leader to kill off the only potential cure to the virus instead of doing experimentation with her while alive.

The doctors in the room were the source advocates of personally murdering a little girl. The soldier's defended their station, Marlene ordered it, but they were the ones who were both willing and eager to do it. And when Joel was in the room, the only doctor who was standing between Joel and Ellie was an immovable obstacle who would kill Joel should he get near.

Yet it's Marlene and the Soldier's who were the expedible ones, while the doctors should have been spared? Logically, it doesn't make much sense to me why killing the former is acceptable while the latter is immoral.

The amount of expertise required to be a surgeon (and if memory serves, a brain surgeon) and the amount of expertise required to be a soldier are not equivalent. I would've avoided killing the surgeon if possible simply due to my personal interest in keeping as many people with that skill set alive who can teach others. It's not about his intent or crimes in my eyes (I think this world is past that point), it's about pragmatism. As for sneaking around the soldiers, I'm fully aware I need to get out after I get Ellie. Every soldier I sneak around is a soldier there on my way out. They picked up guns for a cause, the surgeon picked up a scalpel. They needed to be killed, the surgeon I would have shot in the leg.

I don't think the Fireflies are necessarily evil, I think they are misguided in an "ends justify the means' type of way - and I think they are totally wrong regarding their odds of producing a cure at the cost of executing an innocent.
 

AAK

Member
If you listen/pick up all the audio files you learn that they have done things to other people that didn't accomplish anything. Also everyone involved with the fireflies are pretty much assholes.

And Joel has done worse things than the Fireflies. Between assholes, I have more sympathy for the ones that were fighting for the preservation of their species.
 

Icolin

Banned
If you listen/pick up all the audio files you learn that they have done things to other people that didn't accomplish anything. Also everyone involved with the fireflies are pretty much assholes.

http://thelastofus.wikia.com/wiki/Surgeon's_Recorder



"The contents of this particular recorder shed some light on Joel's story to Ellie in the game's epilogue. The surgeon mentions "past cases", which essentially means that they have experimented on other people who were infected but were unable to find a cure, but notes that Ellie's immunity may be the key to creating a vaccine. "

This. Apparently Colin Moriarty had this same feeling (that the Fireflies proved themselves to be incompetent assholes), but Neil Druckmann basically said to him that the Fireflies' plan was 100% going to work.

I'd still agree with Joel's choice though.
 
How can people hate the ending? Like.... how?

I would've done the same thing Joel did. The Fireflies didn't give Ellie any say in what was happening and you can find evidence of their experiments going wrong.

How can people think sacrificing Ellie would be the "good" ending?
 

Cess007

Member
Props to ND, almost 4 years after release, the ending still brings a lot of discussion everytime is mentioned (not only here, even irl at my workplace lol)
 
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