Agree 100%. Everyone always complains that Joel should have let them murder what has effectively become his daughter, as if anyone would do that. The Fireflies plan was pretty much:
1: murder girl
2: remove brain
3: ????????
4: profit
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
TLOU Ending or: How I learned to Stop Worrying and Love the End
- Thread starter Hispanic! At the Disco
- Start date
Agree 100%. Everyone always complains that Joel should have let them murder what has effectively become his daughter, as if anyone would do that. The Fireflies plan was pretty much:
1: murder girl
2: remove brain
3: ????????
4: profit
I never thought the right answer was to sacrifice Ellie, that never even crossed my mind. I was there to stop her being murdered by the Fireflies as I was damn sure they weren't going to give her the option to change her mind at the last minute. Everything I saw in there reinforced my decision as they appeared incompetent and hiding a lot of doubt and horrors over what they had been up to. As such, I didn't really have that dissonance between player and avatar. I agreed entirely with what he did, and if it had been my daughter with her choice to live or die on her own terms removed by violent people desperate to cut her up I would have done exactly the same except with even less worrying about consequences than Joel.
This is also true. I'm somewhat choosing to assume the fireflies were capable of curing the virus, but yes there is another level of ambiguity when you consider how likely that actually is.
And then you also have to consider that one person's life is probably still less important than the chance of saving humanity. So do you truly believe the fireflies shouldn't have had this chance, or is this just a comforting thing you tell yourself to justify your actions?
"????" is analysing the brain, compare it to normal brains, find the difference and find a way to activate this difference in other people.
The biggest problem is the whole removing the brain part, which is stupid on a scientific level! The brain doesn't produce anything, it sends orders to the body and the organs, which create stuff. Cutting out the brain would mean, they don't know, where those orders are sent to. Maybe the antidote is created in the liver and sent through the body. Who knows.
Cutting the brain should never be your first order, since there is no way back.
But this is simply a plot-hole, which isn't important for the story of Joel and Ellie.
The ending is perfect and the only right ending for that narrative/ Weak ass multiple endings merely to satisfy those who want to write their own inferior take would have hurt the impact of the title.
At that point in the game all of Joel's old wounds have been torn open, he has, against his initial intent, completely bonded with Ellie and simply cannot lose her nor allow her to die nor allow himself to "fail" again in protecting a young woman he dearly loves as a parent.
His actions are completely in character and while of course everyone is free to interpret how selfish they might be (or not) there is not doubt they are the only right actions for that character at that moment. Anything else would have been a narrative lie.
The best narratives, stories and exploration of themes require honesty and commitment and unwavering focus on their goals. TLOU, very unusually for a videogame narrative in my experience, had that in spades and right to the end too.
Player choice was only every merely how to proceed through each traditional gameplay mechanic and combat arena. The themes, narrative and characters were never in the player's hands. They direct you and they take you where they will whether you like it or not.
Terrific stuff.
At that point in the game all of Joel's old wounds have been torn open, he has, against his initial intent, completely bonded with Ellie and simply cannot lose her nor allow her to die nor allow himself to "fail" again in protecting a young woman he dearly loves as a parent.
His actions are completely in character and while of course everyone is free to interpret how selfish they might be (or not) there is not doubt they are the only right actions for that character at that moment. Anything else would have been a narrative lie.
The best narratives, stories and exploration of themes require honesty and commitment and unwavering focus on their goals. TLOU, very unusually for a videogame narrative in my experience, had that in spades and right to the end too.
Player choice was only every merely how to proceed through each traditional gameplay mechanic and combat arena. The themes, narrative and characters were never in the player's hands. They direct you and they take you where they will whether you like it or not.
Terrific stuff.
Amen to all of this.
I figure I'm one of those monsters that felt like we had just gone on the wildest adventures for survival just to make it so that Ellie wound up on the operating table for some sacrifice? Cut her up for a possible chance that not only would be a cure but maybe we'd trust these shoddy Fireflies to administer it to the grand population. To save humanity?! What fucking humanity was left?! I just got done smashing other men's faces in with bricks, fighting for one more crafting resource, avoiding the real threat of other people trying to kill for scraps. We were all monsters, situational or not - the idea of cure, respecting Ellie's choice, going along with some fairy tale save the world mess just didn't add up for me.
It's all bleak. I'd selfishly shoot those doctors over and over again.
I murderized the shit out of those doctors. I'd do it again too, and would if I was in Joel's place. As far as I'm concerned, when you scoop out teenage girl brains without their consent you loose any sympathy from me towards your death. Still, I was so pissed off when I shot them I wasn't even really thinking until they were all dead. I felt quite a bit like a psychopath, and it was a really interesting moment for me.
The ending was great, definitely my favorite of any game ever. It was such a perfect conclusion, wrapping up the threads that had to, but leaving that tiny bit of doubt that really gets you thinking. The fact that in 2017, encroaching on three years after the game, the ending still generates this much discussion shows how truly powerful it was. Love it or hate it, the ending definitely left an impact.
The ending was great, definitely my favorite of any game ever. It was such a perfect conclusion, wrapping up the threads that had to, but leaving that tiny bit of doubt that really gets you thinking. The fact that in 2017, encroaching on three years after the game, the ending still generates this much discussion shows how truly powerful it was. Love it or hate it, the ending definitely left an impact.
GreenMonkey
Member
I always have trouble with the people that insist Joel is a monster for not letting the Fireflies murder Ellie for the chance of a cure.
The people that insist it is a 100% cure must not be paying attention to the tapes that show they have failed at this before. Even if it was a 99% chance...
Did we not learn from the Nazi medical experiments? Do people know so little about history? The consensus is that deliberate harm in the name of medical research is wrong.
It's wrong to hurt people in the name of the greater good. That logic is how you end up using torture, or using prisoners on death row as medical experiments. See the Tuskegee Syphilis experiments or the stuff Nazis did in WW2.
If it was my kid I'd give those bastards all the knife too, and yeah, probably lie about it if necessary.
The people that insist it is a 100% cure must not be paying attention to the tapes that show they have failed at this before. Even if it was a 99% chance...
Did we not learn from the Nazi medical experiments? Do people know so little about history? The consensus is that deliberate harm in the name of medical research is wrong.
It's wrong to hurt people in the name of the greater good. That logic is how you end up using torture, or using prisoners on death row as medical experiments. See the Tuskegee Syphilis experiments or the stuff Nazis did in WW2.
If it was my kid I'd give those bastards all the knife too, and yeah, probably lie about it if necessary.
Generic Power Ranger
Member
I thought the game was great, but I also thought there was a very simple solution which wouldn't require all of the fighting in the end.
Wake her up and ask her.
Instead of both sides deciding for her and killing each other over it, just wake her up and ask her.
Also you should be able to let all the doctors flee. I shot him in the foot.
Wake her up and ask her.
Instead of both sides deciding for her and killing each other over it, just wake her up and ask her.
Also you should be able to let all the doctors flee. I shot him in the foot.
I loved the ending. During the credits I found myself just sitting there thinking how much of absolute lunatic Joel is. He doesn't take loss very easy which is apparent throughout the entire game, and he goes berserk when he realizes he is about to lose the next person he cares about most.
And just watching that switch in character between Ellie and Joel after winter and especially after the hospital. It went from Ellie being the joyful spirit throughout the game as Joel kind of just deals with it, to Joel happily looking forward to a future with Ellie and being open with her (even casually mentioning his daughter by the end of it, a topic he had repressed for years) and Ellie is just shuffling in the background quietly with her head in the clouds.
And then directly at the end where Joel so easily lies to Ellie about the choice he took away from her. Fucking Joel, man. But that's what so good about the character. He is human. He is no hero.
And just watching that switch in character between Ellie and Joel after winter and especially after the hospital. It went from Ellie being the joyful spirit throughout the game as Joel kind of just deals with it, to Joel happily looking forward to a future with Ellie and being open with her (even casually mentioning his daughter by the end of it, a topic he had repressed for years) and Ellie is just shuffling in the background quietly with her head in the clouds.
And then directly at the end where Joel so easily lies to Ellie about the choice he took away from her. Fucking Joel, man. But that's what so good about the character. He is human. He is no hero.
If someone asked me for my child's life to save humanity I know what my response would be. It would involve "killing every last one of them"
Joel made the decision that I fully expected him to given what we'd learned about his character throughout the game. In fact if he'd have given up on Ellie I'd be calling BS on the whole plot.
I saw Joel develop into a real, believable character. Not just an avatar for my actions.
Perfect ending for me and deserves a lot of credit.
Joel made the decision that I fully expected him to given what we'd learned about his character throughout the game. In fact if he'd have given up on Ellie I'd be calling BS on the whole plot.
I saw Joel develop into a real, believable character. Not just an avatar for my actions.
Perfect ending for me and deserves a lot of credit.
DodgyGeezerFella
Member
You kinda knew what Joel was like from the start of the game when he drove past that family shouting for help .......
See problem is - how do you achieve the narrative goals noted in updated quote?
Langdon Alger
Banned
If they were going to force me to kill that doctor, then they should have done it in a cutscene.
Too easy. Wasn't easy for Joel, wasn't supposed to be easy for you.
FantasticMrSnake
Member
From the OP:
I really love this ending, and I think it's because of that, it didn't took the usual approach: "oh let's save the world, as always, let's do the """"""right""""" thing", no, I love it, it's the fucking end of the world and Joel was a selfish bastard and I love him for that =), there are few games out there that makes you feel like the character has its own personality and this is one of them.
I never got that, I rarely fell related to a character in a video game, and that's why I love them.
I really love this ending, and I think it's because of that, it didn't took the usual approach: "oh let's save the world, as always, let's do the """"""right""""" thing", no, I love it, it's the fucking end of the world and Joel was a selfish bastard and I love him for that =), there are few games out there that makes you feel like the character has its own personality and this is one of them.
Nah that's a pivotal part of the ending. It's when you finally realise that this isn't your story, it's Joel's, and he's not leaving this room without killing at least one doctor. Making you do it yourself is a fantastic way of forcing you into that realisation.
His "daughter" is unconscious, strapped to a table and about to be murdered. His reaction is what I'd come to expect from a man whose grief has consumed him for 20 years +. He's been granted a reprieve and a chance at a normal life in the form of Ellie. Damned if he'd let anyone stand in the way of that.
Nope lessens the impact.
If I ever get around to a LTTP on Life is Strange I'd touch on this aspect and how the game uses it and how TLOU uses it too.
By making you chose against your wishes the emotional reaction is increased. It's an interesting mechanic narratively and one I've only really felt TLOU and LiS have exploited well.
The effect is what we have here: prolonged discussion and deep, strong reactions from players (positive or negative).
Unlike TLOU LiS uses this mechanic even more and really puts the player through the wringer with uncomfortable and challenging choices.
The other aspect of TLOU (and LiS) that I like narrative is they exploit gamers natural expectation there's a way to "win" the game and get the result they want. Instead they subvert this and instead only allow you to get the outcome they wanted and deny you the "win" you want.
Again, this is terrific stuff and challenging expectation and exploiting the medium to achieve thematic and narrative goals.
Stiler
Member
You say that you felt like Joel and his actions aligned with yours.
Tell me, if you had a daughter, which is what Ellie became to Joel by the end of the game, would you want to let her die?
The fireflies did NOT tell her they had to kill her to try and find the cure, she didn't go in there expecting to die 100%. She wanted to be able to help people but the people who were going to do that to her lied to her.
To Joel this was a line, he didn't want to lose yet another daughter, and just like his real daughter this wasn't at the hands of the infected, but rather by human hands.
Tell me, if you had a daughter, which is what Ellie became to Joel by the end of the game, would you want to let her die?
The fireflies did NOT tell her they had to kill her to try and find the cure, she didn't go in there expecting to die 100%. She wanted to be able to help people but the people who were going to do that to her lied to her.
To Joel this was a line, he didn't want to lose yet another daughter, and just like his real daughter this wasn't at the hands of the infected, but rather by human hands.
ShironRedshift
Member
That's part of it, but there's a whole 'nother level to it as well that doesn't get talked about quite as much: even if the Fireflies were successful in actually making a cure... then what? What happens next exactly?
The entire game itself is the answer to that: consider everything Joel and Ellie had to do, everything they had to endure to make it all the way to the hospital at the end. They should have been dead like a thousand times over. And indeed, some of the writings and audiologs you can find in the game describe the "pair of survivors" wandering across the game as essentially complete freaks for being able to survive everything they do IIRC and more of a force of nature than anything, precisely because of how insane it is that Joel and Ellie were actually able to survive everything they did.
Then consider the journals/audio-logs you can pick up from Firefly members across the game as you're following after them. They similarly describe that Marlene's group, and the Fireflies in general, sacrificed a fuckton to even make it to the hospital. Even if they make a cure, they still have to get it back to a safe zone. And considering how hard fought the journey to the hospital was to begin with, the chances that they'd have a successful return trip, vaccine in tact, are extremely low. They were lucky to even get there; the chances they'd be lucky again and extremely low. Again, consider all the people that that tried to fuck with Joel and Ellie along their journey, nevermind the Clickers. That's all stuff they'd have to deal with going back, while protecting not only their lives but the vaccine as well.
Then on top of that consider that the world of The Last of Us in general is a kind of fucked up place. One of the clear messages of the game is that humans are more dangerous than the Cordyceps, because at least with Cordyceps you know what to expect but with humans you never know when you'll be stabbed in the back. And if a vaccine were to be developed, everyone there would know exactly how powerful a bargaining chip such a thing could be, how much money they could get from such a thing, how much power over others they could gain from it. With how fucked up the world of the game is and how one of the themes is that you never can be sure who you can trust and who you can't, there's no way every single doctor would suddenly turn into pure noble saints were such a thing to be developed. No, at least a few of them would be tempted by greed, and that's all it would take to turn into an all out struggle over who will get the fame and glory by delivering the vaccine. And if someone somehow would make it out of that struggle alive with the vaccine, well, they would just be easy prey for the clickers once they get out and it wouldn't matter anyway.
And on top of that there's also the factor of how the Fireflies... aren't exactly the most, well, popular of groups, with many just seeing them as outright terrorists. A Firefly says they've actually developed a vaccine? Well, especially in a world like that of TLOU, something like that would sound too good to be true, wouldn't it? People would naturally be skeptical of such an outlandish claim, especially coming from a group like the Fireflies of all groups. Instead, many people are the type that would just kill any Fireflies they see, on sight and assume any "cure" is just some poison that they'd instantly just destroy rather than take any chances on. So that's something they'd have to deal with on top of the Clickers, in-fighting, and the other shit in attempting to make sure a vaccine gets all the way back.
And of course, all of this is on top of, as you said, the low chances of them even developing a vaccine successfully in the first place.
When you put all this together, the entire game itself is a complete rebuttal to the idea that the Fireflies quest for a cure is nothing but a wild good chase in the world of The Last of Us. There's a billion different ways in could end in failure.
Considering all of that, in aggregate... yeah, there's absolutely no way I can disagree with what Joel decided to do. All it would take is even just one, just a single one, of those things I described to happen for sacrificing Ellie to have been a complete waste, and the chances that not a single one, not even a single one of those scenarios actually occurring are impossibly, ridiculously low. Of course, Joel wasn't truly thinking about any of that. He was just thinking of doing whatever it took to protect Ellie, because he couldn't handle losing another daughter. But nonetheless, I can't imagine making any other decision with that all being the case.
Generic Power Ranger
Member
I don't disagree, but at the same time, I don't think it justifies their actions either. And it's not just Joel here. Based on the whole sequence where you find tapes etc, it seems that they have had her there for a bit. The tapes make it seem like an impossible situation, well. Wake her up and talk to her about it instead of keeping her drugged and just doing it. Waiting a day shouldn't make that big of a difference.
And the doctors thing is silly. They should really just run off. Also that shot in the foot shouldn't terminate him. It's such a grunded and cinematic game, but the way that situation is handled is a bit silly and very gamey.
I still think it's fantastic. But that doesn't mean I can't find flaws in it
Hmm, maybe I should play Life is Strange
To me it is a weird thing to even have to debate. As a father (i think that is the reason) I already knew my choice before realising there was none. And lucky for me it went where I wanted it too. Now Joel was not Ellies father..he knows that deep down but the connection they have and the loss of his daughter years prios due to the ignorance and fears of adults made him act the same way. I would be just like him. The drive to keep my kids safe is bigger then the greater good.
He lost his daughter and his entire life pretty much as the world crumbled. It completely broke him. Years later Ellie shows up and over time she practically becomes his daughter, probably stirring emotions that he had completely shut off years ago. Now he has the power to stop her from dying. Is he going to sit there and go through the same crap all over again even though he's capable of saving her? He might as well be putting a bullet to his own head if he lets her die. He's seen the worst of humanity, does humanity even deserve a second chance anyway? It's not hard to imagine what he was thinking and feeling, and what he did totally made sense for his character even if it was the "wrong" thing to do. It was a perfect ending in my opinion, and the only way it could've ended.
I don't need comfort regarding their chances of success to justify my actions to stop them scooping the brain out of an unconscious teenager they've captured. The Fireflies could have had that chance if they hadn't resorted to kidnap and attempted murder. If I knew that Ellie had freely chosen to go there and die for a slim chance, had been presented with the true facts of the research done, with the option to walk away at any point and without a load of liars tellling her it would definitely work, I would be far less comfortable with busting heads than I was considering the way they went about it as thugs, kidnappers and attempted murderers. At that point they werent seeing a girl, they were no better than any other gang seeing a valuable resource to use up.
If you only look at things in terms of cold statistics, which is what people are doing when suggesting that someone ignore that the people they love matter more to them than a tiny chance of saving a potentially large number of strangers, then sure, it's worth it. It's easy to say 'but research! you're a monster if you choose the few over the many!' if it's not your loved ones being slaughtered for science.
Relationships are based around the fact that individuals matter to other individuals, and people who cut up teenagers while telling them lies about the odds of survival and success are hardly the best arbiters of morality. I wouldn't give up a member of my family to save a million others, particularly if a disorganised gang with a half-arsed plan acting on behalf of said others started kidnapping and sedating my loved ones and suggesting I was being selfish for standing in the way of their murder on behalf of humanity. Fuck that, and fuck them at that point.
xenorevlis
Member
It's interesting to see just how many people didn't pay attention to the details during exchanges between characters or the notes and recordings left for the player to find.
Naughty Dog absolutely made it clear that Ellie had no choice at the end, that the Fireflies couldn't even get across the country without losing most of their people, that Marlene and Joel have history, that Joel is not a good guy.
Also the ending was not targeted to please as many people as possible. In fact more than half of my friends who finished it were unhappy with it and didn't understand why things ended up that way. It's definitely a bold choice, and I was upset with it when I first played on PS3.
I loved it though, in the end. Especially as a filmmaker who has writing and character / world building experience. It really messes with people and will only truly make sense to those who paid attention to the motivations of each character.
A lot of really good points in this thread, too.
Naughty Dog absolutely made it clear that Ellie had no choice at the end, that the Fireflies couldn't even get across the country without losing most of their people, that Marlene and Joel have history, that Joel is not a good guy.
Also the ending was not targeted to please as many people as possible. In fact more than half of my friends who finished it were unhappy with it and didn't understand why things ended up that way. It's definitely a bold choice, and I was upset with it when I first played on PS3.
I loved it though, in the end. Especially as a filmmaker who has writing and character / world building experience. It really messes with people and will only truly make sense to those who paid attention to the motivations of each character.
A lot of really good points in this thread, too.
bitbydeath
Member
Put yourself in Ellies shoes, she can either end her life in hope of a cure is made or she can say no and face every day seeing people die around her and continue watching the world fall apart all because she chose to live.
Do you really think she can say no and not be feeling guilty about her decision every day after?
That is no choice and Joel fixed that for her.
whalleywhat
Member
It was pretty easy for me.
potatohead
Member
Spinal
Fluid
Tap
Fluid
Tap
eso76
Member
Ending was perfect.
Had things played out the way they were supposed to, that would have been a clear cut closure. A sad one, but still clear cut, with little significance, not a lot to ponder or discuss.
Also, in Joel's shoes I would have totally done the same, with absolutely no hesitation or regret. I am a terrible human being.
Had things played out the way they were supposed to, that would have been a clear cut closure. A sad one, but still clear cut, with little significance, not a lot to ponder or discuss.
Also, in Joel's shoes I would have totally done the same, with absolutely no hesitation or regret. I am a terrible human being.
I thnk the biggest issue people have with the ending is the fact that you are no longer a hero/savior of the world. Video games have conditioned us to be the good guy, which Joel is not, he´s simply a person.
Personally I really loved the ending as it fit the overall story really well. Also if I were given the choice of sacrificing a person I love for the possible (hell even guaranteed) saving of mankind...well mankind had a good run I guess?
Personally I really loved the ending as it fit the overall story really well. Also if I were given the choice of sacrificing a person I love for the possible (hell even guaranteed) saving of mankind...well mankind had a good run I guess?
This is it. I don't understand people wanting some kind of choice when it's not a story about them, it's about experiencing the story of a broken parent who "selfishly" saves a young girl's life--a life he couldn't save with his daughter. It's about that parental instinct, and I'm not sure it's something that people who don't have or work with children fully understand.
Amazing ending, loved it.
I think whether or not you are a parent yourself greatly influences whether or not you can empathise with Joel's actions. I have 2 kids, the beginning tore me up, the ending is exactly what I would have done.
Interesting discussion though, some well thought out ideas. For what it's worth I subscribe to the idea that humanity isn't doomed, it's adapted well enough to the new world thus a vaccine is, if not pointless, not really something that will drastically influence how the future of mankind plays out. Thus killing Ellie for this notional vaccine would have been abhorrent.
I think whether or not you are a parent yourself greatly influences whether or not you can empathise with Joel's actions. I have 2 kids, the beginning tore me up, the ending is exactly what I would have done.
Interesting discussion though, some well thought out ideas. For what it's worth I subscribe to the idea that humanity isn't doomed, it's adapted well enough to the new world thus a vaccine is, if not pointless, not really something that will drastically influence how the future of mankind plays out. Thus killing Ellie for this notional vaccine would have been abhorrent.
whalleywhat
Member
So you reasoned around a potent moral quandary until it was safely explicable for you.
There was no moral quandary for me. At no stage was I beset with any fears that what I might be doing was wrong. I was fully on board with Joel and his course of action. After the credits roll and you start to think about everything you've done and played, you can take more time to coldly rationalise events, hence my conclusions over the state of the world and the ultimate redundancy of a vaccine; but in the heat of the moment? I was steaming along, killing anyone who presented a barrier to me saving Ellie, I was Joel 100%.
whalleywhat
Member
Yes, this is exactly what I said. At the time, you were caught up in the emotional situation of the character, as was I, but if there was no moral quandary for you, you wouldn't have engaged in the rationalisation afterwards.
Perhaps rationalise was the wrong choice of words from me; it was more a process of confirmation bias I think. I already knew I made the correct choice, any thought process during the credits was more confirming all the reasons why I was correct (heh). It's not a quandary as such if one option is never seriously considered as a viable course if action.
A powerful ending though. I need to re-buy and replay again (if only for the HDR this time around).
I had no qualms with Joel choosing to save Ellie. I was a little annoyed I couldn't just punch the doctor in the face which would have accomplished the same thing without having to kill him.
thecouncil
Banned
The ending should have been:
Joel: Swear to me. Swear to me that everything you've said about killing this kid and making a cure is true.
Doctor: *shifts uncomfortably* I swear.
*pause*
Joel: *slight nod* OK.
*cut to black*
Joel: Swear to me. Swear to me that everything you've said about killing this kid and making a cure is true.
Doctor: *shifts uncomfortably* I swear.
*pause*
Joel: *slight nod* OK.
*cut to black*
It's not for everyone and is quite different from TLOU but it got so much notice and exceeded developer expectations massively for a reason.
It's very rough around the edges compared to TLOU but it delivers strong characters and very real world challenges and like TLOU's ending will brutally cut across what you think you can achieve and how much agency you have to make you experience and appreciate tough decisions.
TBH around the web the level of discussion I've seen on say TLOU ending/narrative is nothing compared to the level of reaction I've seen to LiS and in particular it's ending.
I think there's a demo for part of first episode so I'd try that first. The dialogue can be pretty scrappy but it grows on you.
TannerDemoz
Member
This. I really don't understand people's gripe with the ending from what I've read. A lot of the negativity around it seems to be because it didn't end the way THEY wanted it to?
But that's the reason Joel starts fighting them - they are robbing her of her choice and kicking him out when he starts arguing against it.
By the time Joel gets to the doctors it's too late to just wake her up. He's already killed a couple of fireflies. Joel and Ellie aren't getting out of there alive unless he runs out of there carrying her unconscious body.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I disagree! I've never had that kind of loss and I understood it totally! The game clearly walks you though that pain he had when his daughter died.