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TolkienGAF |OT| The World is Ahead

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L

Loxley

Member
META said:
That was really good. Feel like there could be a bit more buildup to it, though. Like, have the version sung by the dwarves playing as the orcs are lining up, and then transition into the more triumphant version like in that video.
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Oh yeah, that would've been great.

Vashetti said:
Has there been any news on the TBOTFA EE?
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None so far. We usually start hearing about them in April - after the theatrical cut has been released. WB probably doesn't want to risk losing sales on the theatrical cut by hyping up the EE beforehand.
 
S

SiegfriedFM

Member
Loxley said:
Somebody edited the Misty Mountains theme into the scene in BOTFA where Thorin and the dwarves charge out of Erebor at the orc army - and it's great. Makes me once again mourn it's absence post-AUJ.



My girlfriend recently gifted me fresh copies of the History of The Lord of the Rings, which is great since my old copies have become pretty beaten-up. So tonight is all about 'The Return of the Shadow' :) Not particularly friendship related, but hey, I'm just jazzed to read through these again.
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That reminded me that I have "The Return of the Shadow", but hadn't yet started it. It's interesting so far... even in that very first draft of the book, the party was relatively detailed. It's also interesting how he juggled it between Bilbo and Bingo (lol) and set it at different times, and also how the very first embers of the idea of the four travelling hobbits came to be.
 
L

Loxley

Member
The Hobbiton movie set facebook page just posted this lovely view:

uqIxJUH.jpg
Click to expand...


I fiddled with the colors and wallpaper'd it in case anybody is interested:

MQWNGAw.jpg
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terrisus

terrisus

Member
Loxley said:
The Hobbiton movie set facebook page just posted this lovely view:

uqIxJUH.jpg



I fiddled with the colors and wallpaper'd it in case anybody is interested:

MQWNGAw.jpg
Click to expand...

I should get that enlarged and use it as a windowshade for my window <3

(It would be better than looking at the burnt, gutted, and abandoned house that's right outside otherwise >.>)
 
M

mre

Golden Domers are chickenshit!!
Edmond Dantès;157383628 said:
In terms of writers, the following are similar without being overly derivative:


  • R.A. Salvatore (The Dark Elf Trilogy, The Icewind Dale Trilogy, The DemonWars Saga etc.)
  • Christopher Paolini (The Inheritance Cycle)
  • Cecilia Dart-Thornton (The Bitterbynde Trilogy and others)
  • Guy Gavriel Kay (Tigana and others. He also worked on The Silmarillion with Christopher Tolkien)
  • David Eddings (The Belgariad, The Mallorean)
  • Lloyd Alexander (The Chronicles of Prydain is a series that draws from a source material that also influenced Tolkien)
The following either predate Tolkien fantasy or were written concurrently.


  • Lord Dunsany (Pre-Tolkien fantasy and an influence on Tolkien himself)
  • George MacDonald (The Princess and the Goblin, Phantastes: A Faerie Romance for Men and Women, also pre-Tolkien)
  • E. R. Eddison (The Worm Ouroboros, Zimiamvian Trilogy)
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Did you just describe Paolini as not being "overly derivative"?

Man, I appreciate your knowledge of Tolkien, but that's just wrong.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Edmond Dantès;157383628 said:
In terms of writers, the following are similar without being overly derivative:


  • R.A. Salvatore (The Dark Elf Trilogy, The Icewind Dale Trilogy, The DemonWars Saga etc.)
  • Christopher Paolini (The Inheritance Cycle)
  • Cecilia Dart-Thornton (The Bitterbynde Trilogy and others)
  • Guy Gavriel Kay (Tigana and others. He also worked on The Silmarillion with Christopher Tolkien)
  • David Eddings (The Belgariad, The Mallorean)
  • Lloyd Alexander (The Chronicles of Prydain is a series that draws from a source material that also influenced Tolkien)
The following either predate Tolkien fantasy or were written concurrently.


  • Lord Dunsany (Pre-Tolkien fantasy and an influence on Tolkien himself)
  • George MacDonald (The Princess and the Goblin, Phantastes: A Faerie Romance for Men and Women, also pre-Tolkien)
  • E. R. Eddison (The Worm Ouroboros, Zimiamvian Trilogy)
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Any that you recommend?
 
S

Skellig Gra

Member
Hey guys, first wanted to say great job to Dantes and Loxley for setting this up and second I wanted to brag because my wife just got me tickets to the LOTR orchestra at Lincoln Center for my birthday next week! I'm super excited.
 
L

Loxley

Member
Tizoc said:
Maybe I missed it in the OP but I was recommended this edition of the LotR books
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0618517650/?tag=neogaf0e-20

How big is the font size? I've had like 2 editions so far where the font is soooo tiny, I want one with normal sized font and if possible an edition that has artwork from Tolkien if possible.
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It's a beautiful edition, one that every die-hard Tolkien fan should have, but it's not exactly the most convenient to read due to the book's shear bulk. The font size is perfectly fine in my opinion, I took a couple photos comparing it to the size of the font in the pocket edition of The Hobbit:

7Uri6hf.jpg


NFhk8kB.jpg
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S

ScottSullivan

Member
I haven't bought any of the EE Blu Rays yet so part of me wants to wait for the final final final release of everything in a couple of years or whatever, but man, those hobbit movies were really disappointing, if not actively bad. WHY IS ALFRID A CHARACTER
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
I have the EE of LotR, we're planning on getting a new HDTV so re-watching them on a really good HDTV is gonna be a great experience.
 
terrisus

terrisus

Member
Been listening through a reading of The Silmarillion (as I've mentioned earlier), which I last read through as a teenager.
Near the end of Volume 2 right now (CD8 in the reading I'm listening to).

...

I think I may have to stop it, though.
It's just making me way too depressed.

Not the book itself so much...
But thinking about how my life was at that point...
And the paths that I should have taken from there...
And how much better my life could have been...
And how it's nothing like what I wanted now...

I just have all sorts of personal and emotional issues >.>
=(
 
L

Loxley

Member
Tolkien FAQ Part 2 - By Edmond Dantès

Edmond Dantès said:
Where in Middle-earth were the Blue Wizards and did they fail in their duties?

Off in the East of Middle-earth dealing with Sauron's forces via subterfuge. In Tolkien's later musings Alatar and Pallando are not seen as failures, but rather as playing a decisive role in subduing Sauron's easterly forces.

Tolkien in the Unfinished Tales explained the following: that the 'other two' came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age. Glorfindel was sent to aid Elrond and was (though not yet said) preeminent in the war of Eriador. But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Romestamo. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause dissension and disarray among the dark East. They must have had a very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of the east who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have outnumbered the West.

Did Elves actually have pointed ears?

Tolkien points out the following:

“The Quendian ears were more pointed and leaf-shaped than [human].”
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- History of Middle-earth, Volume 5, Etymologies.

Did Frodo fail the quest?

Yes, in Tolkien’s view:

Frodo indeed ‘failed’ as a hero, as conceived by simple minds: he did not endure to the end; he gave in, ratted. I do not say ‘simple minds’ with contempt: they often see with clarity the simple truth and the absolute ideal to which effort must be directed, even if it is unattainable. Their weakness, however, is twofold. They do not perceive the complexity of any given situation in Time, in which an absolute ideal is enmeshed. They tend to forget that strange element in the World that we call Pity or Mercy, which is also an absolute requirement in moral judgement (since it is Present in the Divine nature). In its highest exercise it belongs to God. For finite judges of imperfect knowledge it must lead to the use of two different scales of ‘morality’. To ourselves we must present the absolute ideal without compromise, for we do not know our own limits of natural strength (+grace), and if we do not aim at the highest we shall certainly fall short of the utmost that we could achieve. To others, in any case of which we know enough to make a judgement, we must apply a scale tempered by ‘mercy’: that is, since we can with good will do this without the bias inevitable in judgements of ourselves, we must estimate the limits of another's strength and weigh this against the force of particular circumstances.

I do not think that Frodo’s was a moral failure. At the last moment the pressure of the Ring would reach its maximum - impossible, I should have said, for anyone to resist, certainly after long possession, months of increasing torment, and when starved and exhausted. Frodo had done what he could and spent himself completely (as an instrument of Providence) and had produced a situation in which the object of his quest could be achieved. His humility (with which he began) and his sufferings were justly rewarded by the highest honour; and his exercise of patience and mercy towards Gollum gained him Mercy: his failure was redressed. - Letter #246.

It was only the intervention of Gollum that caused the Ring to be destroyed. If they had bypassed Gollum altogether would any of them when in a position to destroy it, actually do it? Even the most powerful of the Maiar would have succumbed while in such close proximity to the Crack of Doom. Not many were above the will of the One; Eru and the Valar certainly, Tom seemingly, but that was in his territory.

What are the origins of the Orcs?

The origins of the Orcs are shrouded in mystery but the closest to a definitive answer is this; degenerate men taken in by Melkor long before Men started mingling with Elves. Melkor appeared to them in fair form as a false saviour and corrupted certain numbers of them He made an ill of the Gift of Iluvatar (death, freedom from Arda) that would later have such repercussions for the Men of Numenor. The dark early history that the race of Men are so reluctant to talk about. Then the degenerates were crossbred with Elves who had not made the journey to Valinor. Thus, the Orcs were engineered by Melkor, not created. Evil cannot create in the Legendarium, one of the reasons behind Melkor's fall, his bitterness of being impotent in that regard. Some of the more powerful Orc captains were Maiar incarnate, who better to lead the Orcs on the battlefield than Maiar who are aligned to you.

Later on the Orcs were once again crossbred with a breed of very hardy men, hence the Uruk-hai. Some Orcs actually took on the characteristics of Men rather than Orcs, hence these half-breeds looking almost human. These were seen at Bree by Frodo and co.”

Were the Elves diminishing?

Yes, the Elves were diminishing in strength and spirit especially after the fall of Sauron and his Ring. Without the Rings of Power (Narya, Nenya and Vilya) the Elves could no longer stem the tide of progress. They were essentially luddites and represented Tolkien's views on industrialization, but their leaving of Middle-earth essentially mirrored his coming to terms with the inevitability of industrial progress.

Also, the Race of Men were preordained by Eru to become the dominant species on Arda.

An Elf remaining in Middle-earth would have eventually diminished so much that their physical body would be gone leaving only the spirit (hröa) which would be invisible to the Race of Men.

What were Sauron’s motives?

With Sauron the secondary factors were order and discipline, two things he was obsessed with, which Melkor took advantage of. His desire to finish what Melkor had started his main desire. Even going so far as to create cults in his Master’s name, vague forms of religion in a work largely devoid of references to religion.

What would happen if Gandalf took the One Ring for himself?

Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great).

What would be construed as good would be obscured beyond reason.

One must also remember the Norse sagas that greatly influenced the Legendarium as a whole. The dominant theme of many of these sagas is moral ambiguity, the Laxdæla saga in particular.

Why is there a lack of females in Tolkien’s works?

Many of Tolkien's great female characters were saved for his most beloved work The Silmarillion (Luthien, Melian, Morwen, Nienor etc) and work that went unpublished; The Mariner's Wife (Erendis) and Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth (Andreth).

In an ideal world, the works above would have been completed and published during Tolkien's lifetime, as a result people would be far more aware of the majestic female characters that Tolkien was responsible for creating.

The main factor in influencing Tolkien's female characters was his mother who died after refusing medical intervention due to her beliefs. He martyrized her in a sense and this greatly affected his approach in developing female characters. You'll notice that many females in the Legendarium are of a good nature. The few exceptions include the spiders, the vampire, a Numenorean and a certain Queen with a fondness for cats. But the vast majority reflect what he saw in his mother, his wife and the countless women he encountered during the War.

In terms of The Hobbit, Tolkien wasn't wholly swept up by the zeitgeist of the time, he and his children (which included his little girl Priscilla) when developing The Hobbit just couldn't find an appropriate place to put one of his females in.

Who or what is Gandalf?

He's a lesser angel restricted in what he can do in Middle-earth by the Valar. He's there to guide and provide council to the Children of Iluvatar, not do as Sauron did and Melkor before him.

One of the most important characters in the story, but it is difficult to tell in his first appearance in how much the later character was present in Tolkien’s mind in The Hobbit and how much he developed in the course of Tolkien’s writings, partly because the character in The Hobbit is deliberately kept somewhat mysterious. Certainly, the phase ‘Gandalf the Grey’ is never used in The Hobbit, being part of many layers of later accretions the character picked up over the years. Gandalf in The Hobbit in contrast is never associated with any one colour , indeed, the first description of him offers quite a variety; blue hat, grey cloak, silver scarf white beard and black boots. Gandalf is an ennobled character in The Lord of the Rings, in comparison to the wandering wizard who flits in and out of the narrative of The Hobbit.

This Odinic figure is an angel in incarnated form, a Maia, one of the five Istari, bearer of the Ring of Fire, whose other names are Mithrandir and Olorin, who passes through death and returns as Gandalf he White, the Enemy of Sauron, altogether a much more dignified, powerful, and political figure than the ‘little old man’ Bilbo meets on his doorstep one day in the quiet of the world. In the essay on the Istari, Tolkien states that they were supposed at first by those that had dealings with them to be men who had acquired lore and arts by long secret study. However, it is by no means clear whether or not Tolkien himself was of the same opinion when he first wrote The Hobbit. Like so much else in the story, Gandalf’s nature is ambiguous, no doubt deliberately; so he might be human, or he might be something more. If we only had The Hobbit itself to go by, we should certainly have no reason to doubt that he was what he appeared, ‘a little old man’.

However, The Hobbit does not stand alone and once viewed in the context of The Silmarillion material, Tolkien’s other tales and its own sequel, the case for Hobbit Gandalf being more than human grows somewhat stronger. If Hobbit Gandalf and similar figures appearing in Tolkien’s other writings such as Roverdandom’s Artaxerxes are not human, is it possible to determine where they fit within the context of Tolkien’s legendarium? The key figure in answering that question is Tuvo the wizard, a figure who evolved into Tu the fay and eventually Thu the Necromancer. Tuvo is emphatically neither elf or human ( in fact he plays a part in the discovery and awakening of the first humans in Middle-earth) but rather a fay, the catch-all term Tolkien used at the time for beings created before the world and who came to inhabit it, including the Maiar. Thus, from Tolkien’s very first wizard, who existed in the unfinished ‘Gilfanon’s Tale at least a decade before Hobbit Gandalf first came on the scene, can already be found the conceptual precedent for Tolkien’s much later bald statement that ‘Gandalf is an angel’ or at least in the case of Hobbit Gandalf, a supernatural being incarnated within the world, neither human nor mortal but very human in his behaviour and character.
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L

Loxley

Member
Yes, the Elves were diminishing in strength and spirit especially after the fall of Sauron and his Ring. Without the Rings of Power (Narya, Nenya and Vilya) the Elves could no longer stem the tide of progress. They were essentially luddites and represented Tolkien's views on industrialization, but their leaving of Middle-earth essentially mirrored his coming to terms with the inevitability of industrial progress.
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I've always found the elves to be fairly tragic figures. They were one of many aspects of Middle-earth that I came to appreciate more as learned about the kind of man Tolkien was.
 
T

tryagainlater

Member
Another enjoyable read. I look forward to more. And I feel the same way, Loxley. I've known about Tolkien's feelings toward the increased industrialization for a while but it's only recently, I've begun to appreciate how much of that we can see throughout his writings.
 
L

Loxley

Member
Turin747 said:
Were the orcs and uruk-hai simply incapable of being anything other than malevolent?
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If I remember correctly, Tolkien never believed the orcs were inherently evil to an extent. They were a product of evil but themselves were more or less just tools/puppets used for nefarious purposes.

Vashetti said:
That's an interesting question actually. Is there any mention whatsoever in Tolkien lore of there being a 'good', or nice Orc?
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Hmm...none that I'm aware of.
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
mre said:
Did you just describe Paolini as not being "overly derivative"?

Man, I appreciate your knowledge of Tolkien, but that's just wrong.
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Yes indeed.
HK-47 said:
Any that you recommend?
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The pre-Tolkien fantasy certainly. None of the others.

Try Jack Vance's Lyonesse trilogy and Patricia A. McKillip's Riddle-Master trilogy and The Forgotten Beasts of Eld.
Turin747 said:
Were the orcs and uruk-hai simply incapable of being anything other than malevolent?
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As Loxley said. They were subject to the discord of Melkor and his lieutenant; even after the fall of the two Dark Lords, the residual influence of Melkor (known as Morgoth's Ring) would have prevented them from truly reforming. Would there be a place in the Second Arda for Orcs who tried to reform? Tolkien never stated anything of the sort, only theorising that Dwarves would aid in the creation of the Second Arda and that the Children of Iluvatar would live in a Kingdom of Heaven free from Melkor's discord.
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
George RR Martin, Game of Thrones and the triumph of fantasy fiction

Fantasy fiction is being feted as never before. As Game of Thrones returns to our TV screens, John Mullan conveys the magic of the genre and explores the alternative universes of Tolkien, Terry Pratchett, Neil Gaiman – and the reigning laureate of fantasy, George RR Martin

Excerpts:
Tolkien himself has not been entirely cold-shouldered by serious critics. There is by now a substantial secondary literature on his fiction that finds shelf space in many a university library. Yet look closer and you will find much of it irritable at the exclusion of their author from the academic canon. The Lord of the Rings is accepted by literary scholars as an important fact of cultural history, rather than a great book. Or it is a spell you fall under for a while, but then wake up from. Yet for many who go on to relish sophisticated literary novels, it is an early, formative experience of fiction’s power to absorb us. No wonder that when the BBC’s The Big Read conducted its poll of the nation’s favourite book in 2003, The Lord of the Rings was the winner. It is the work that schools readers for later experiences of fiction.
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For me, this was certainly the case. I vividly remember one day, aged 14, climbing like a pilgrim the worn wooden steps to Tolkien’s room in Merton college, Oxford in the company of his grandson, who was a school friend. I was clutching my battered paperback copy of The Lord of the Rings, much reread. And there was the great man in his beautiful room, crowded bookshelves up to the ceiling, a vision of lawns beyond. He sucked his pipe and chatted benignly. I was encountering the most important writer in the world, as it then seemed, though I was struck by the mismatch of this tweedy English grandfather and his lofty Wagnerian creation. He was telling me of the physical pleasure of writing. “Did I enjoy the sensation of using a really good ink pen?” I could see why he might be asking this when he signed my copy of his magnum opus: runic is the only word for the style of the inscription. Seeing Professor Tolkien in situ suddenly made it obvious how bookish an endeavour it was, this business of creating of an alternative world.
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Compared to The Lord of the Rings, A Song of Ice and Fire is morally complex and undecideable. “No character is without moral ambiguity,” observes the critic and Martin admirer Amanda Craig. There are no Aragorns or Gandalfs, with their uncompromised nobility. Even the best of Martin’s characters can be ruthless or vengeful or simply wrong. Tolkien’s Mordor was the home of all evil; orcs embodied mere malice. Martin is more interested in the kinds of viciousness, ambition and vengefulness that we recognise from human history. Human actions are capricious; luck seems to play more of a part than any authorial desire to fashion just conclusions. As in real history, outcomes are not foreordained. Martin has said that he was influenced most in the composition of his saga by Maurice Druon’s Les Rois Maudits, a seven-volume fictional chronicle of the French dynastic wars of the middle ages. Martin could, of course, write ripping historical fiction if he wished, but by escaping real history he denies the reader any privilege of knowing what is destined to take place.
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http://www.theguardian.com/books/20...of-thrones-and-the-triumph-of-fantasy-fiction

Interesting points.
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Who here has used the The Lord of the Rings as training wheels before moving on to superior fantasy and literature in general?

This thread has less life in it than the author who it attempts to celebrate.
 
G

Gabriel_Logan

Member
Edmond Dantès;159745714 said:
Who here has used the The Lord of the Rings as training wheels before moving on to superior fantasy and literature in general?

This thread has less life in it than the author who it attempts to celebrate.
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I used Tolkien as a jumping off point for The Count of Monte Cristo and War and Peace. It's definitely hard to jump cold turkey into classical literature.

Edit: Though in the forward of The Count of Monte Cristo that I have the author pretty much calls it a children's book.
 
C

Corrupt

Member
Edmond Dantès;159745714 said:
Who here has used the The Lord of the Rings as training wheels before moving on to superior fantasy and literature in general?

This thread has less life in it than the author who it attempts to celebrate.
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Everyone's saving their discussion for when someone makes the next battle thread: 'Goku Vs. Frodo armed with a frying pan. Who would win?' lol

I read the LoTR books and then jumped to Terry Pratchett books which were a nice palate cleanser with them being more comedy and less landscape description, haha.

It was only a few years ago that I even discovered the existence of the Silmarillion because of all your posts in the LoTR discussion threads, so it was awesome finding a new trove of stories from the books I'd read ages ago. At a few points I did have to force myself to keep reading though, I knew that I wouldn't get the juicy Middle-Earth lore without a fight :p
 
B

butalala

Member
Edmond Dantès;159745714 said:
Who here has used the The Lord of the Rings as training wheels before moving on to superior fantasy and literature in general?
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I wouldn't say that I've used Tolkien as a stepping stone to "superior" writers exactly (since I don't consider his writing to be inferior to others), but when I finally finished The Silmarillion after a few false starts over the years it left me with a feeling of pride that I had to share with other fans and a sense of achievement that made me realize that I could read and enjoy anything if I gave it the attention it deserves. I consider it a step along the path to fulfilling two personal goals: reading The Canterbury Tales in Middle English and reading an unabridged Les Miserables (sadly not in French)
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Gabriel_Logan said:
I used Tolkien as a jumping off point for The Count of Monte Cristo and War and Peace. It's definitely hard to jump cold turkey into classical literature.

Edit: Though in the forward of The Count of Monte Cristo that I have the author pretty much calls it a children's book.
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Dumas is an interesting case. He himself would have been the first to admit that his works were not particularly profound, just good romps presented in the serial format.
Corrupt said:
Everyone's saving their discussion for when someone makes the next battle thread: 'Goku Vs. Frodo armed with a frying pan. Who would win?' lol

I read the LoTR books and then jumped to Terry Pratchett books which were a nice palate cleanser with them being more comedy and less landscape description, haha.

It was only a few years ago that I even discovered the existence of the Silmarillion because of all your posts in the LoTR discussion threads, so it was awesome finding a new trove of stories from the books I'd read ages ago. At a few points I did have to force myself to keep reading though, I knew that I wouldn't get the juicy Middle-Earth lore without a fight :p
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Those types of threads are certainly quite fun, although there's too much in the way of repetition in them.

The works of Terry Pratchett are a natural progression for many of the Tolkien readers that I've come across. You're certainly in good company.

I'm certainly very glad that my posts induced you to search out The Silmarillion and stick with it.
butalala said:
I wouldn't say that I've used Tolkien as a stepping stone to "superior" writers exactly (since I don't consider his writing to be inferior to others), but when I finally finished The Silmarillion after a few false starts over the years it left me with a feeling of pride that I had to share with other fans and a sense of achievement that made me realize that I could read and enjoy anything if I gave it the attention it deserves. I consider it a step along the path to fulfilling two personal goals: reading The Canterbury Tales in Middle English and reading an unabridged Les Miserables (sadly not in French)
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That's very interesting. The Silmarillion has been described as antiquated, annalistic in style and a challenging read, something akin to the prose style of Thucydides in his History of the Peloponnesian War. That it gave you the confidence and will to read anything, however challenging it may be, is certainly something very good. May you achieve your goals.
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Tolkien's Greatest Hits - The Most Impressive Wordplay from our Favorite Author

ib1YGXQZ2XBp3M.jpg



Most bittersweet line:

"I have quite finished, Sam," said Frodo. "The last pages are for you."


Best exclamation of joy:

"Ass! Fool! Thrice worthy and beloved Barliman!"


Most perfect description of beauty:

Young she was and yet not so. The braids of her dark hair were touched by no frost; her white arms and clear face were flawless and smooth, and the light of stars was in her bright eyes, grey as a cloudless night; yet queenly she looked, and thought and knowledge were in her glance, as of one who has known many things that the years bring.


Most poetic description of the weather:

The weather was grey and overcast, with wind from the East, but as evening drew into night the sky away westward cleared, and pools of faint light, yellow and pale green, opened under the grey shores of cloud. There the white rind of the new Moon could be seen glimmering in the remote lakes.


Most shocking moment:

But even as it fell it swung its whip, and the thongs lashed and curled about the wizard's knees, dragging him to the brink. He staggered and fell, grasped vainly at the stone, and slid into the abyss.


Most gruesome encounter:

Then Pippin stabbed upwards, and the written blade of Westernesse pierced through the hide and went deep into the vitals of the troll, and his black blood came gushing out.


Most colorful analogy:

"Troubles follow you like crows, and ever the oftener the worse."


Best example of friendly competition:

"Forty-two, Master Legolas!" he cried.


Most powerful moment of rage:

Then he charged. No onslaught more fierce was ever seen in the savage world of beasts, where some desperate small creature armed with little teeth, alone, will spring upon a tower of horn and hide that stands above its fallen mate.


Best invitation to dinner:

"You shall come home with me! The table is all laden with yellow cream, honeycomb, and white bread and butter."


Wittiest rejoinder:

Saruman- "For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker, Saruman of Many Colors!"
Gandalf- "I liked white better."


Spookiest moment:

Farmer Cotton found Frodo lying on his bed; he was clutching a white gem that hung on a chain about his neck and he seemed half in a dream. "It is gone forever," he said, "and now all is dark and empty."


Most gothic description of evil:

Paler indeed than the moon ailing in some slow eclipse was the light of it now, wavering and blowing like a noisome exhalation of decay, a corpse-light, a light that illuminated nothing.


Most shrewd political advice:

"He uses others as his weapons. So do all great lords, if they are wise, Master Halfling."


Single best piece of advice:

"Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."


Single funniest line:

"What's taters, precious, eh, what's taters?"


Funniest exchange between two characters:

Eomer- "For there are certain rash words concerning the Lady in the Golden Wood that lie still between us. And now I have seen her with my eyes."
Gimli- "Well, lord, and what say you now?"
Eomer- "Alas! I will not say that she is the fairest lady that lives."
Gimli- "Then I must go for my axe."


Most beautiful dream sequence:

As he fell slowly into sleep, Pippin had a strange feeling: he and Gandalf were still as stone, seated upon the statue of a running horse, while the world rolled away beneath his feet with a great noise of wind.


Most enigmatic historical allusion:

"Fair was she who long ago wore this on her shoulder. Goldberry shall wear it now, and we will not forget her!"


Strongest statement of gender equality:

"In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen."


Most romantic kiss:

And he took her in his arms and kissed her under the sunlit sky, and he cared not that they stood high upon the walls in the sight of many.


Most exciting call of alarm:

AWAKE! FEAR! FIRE! FOES! AWAKE!


Most intimidating description of geography:

Ever and anon the furnaces far below its ashen cone would grow hot and with a great surging and throbbing pour forth rivers of molten rock from chasms in its sides. Some would flow blazing towards Barad-dur down great channels; some would wind their way into the stony plain, until they cooled and lay like twisted dragon-shapes vomited from the tormented earth.


Most beautiful sunset:

But in front a thin veil of water was hung, so near that Frodo could have put an outstretched arm into it. It faced westward. The level shafts of the setting sun behind beat upon it, and the red light was broken into many flickering beams of ever-changing colour. It was as if they stood at the window of some elven-tower, curtained with threaded jewels of silver and gold, and ruby, sapphire and amethyst, all kindled with an unconsuming fire.


Most insidious falsehood:

"Our friendship would profit us both alike. Much we could still accomplish together, to heal the disorders of the world."


Most spectacular moment of destruction:

Towers fell and mountains slid; walls crumbled and melted, crashing down; vast spires of smoke and spouting steams went billowing up, up, until they toppled like an overwhelming wave, and its wild crest curled and came foaming down upon the land.


Most moving speech on the battlefield:

"But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you if you touch him."


Most Shakespearean dialogue:

"Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed for myself," said Denethor. "Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse lay yet in the dregs?"


Most wonderful hobbit irony:

Then there was Lobelia. And there was such clapping and cheering when she appeared, leaning on Frodo's arm but still clutching her umbrella, that she was quite touched, and drove away in tears. She had never in her life been popular before.


Two moments that surely inspired the 60's hippie counter-culture:

1. "Cast off these cold rags! Run naked on the grass, while Tom goes a-hunting!" The hobbits ran about for a while on the grass, as he told them.

and

2. All that day they walked about in the woods with him, singing, and laughing; for Quickbeam often laughed. Whenever he saw a rowan-tree he halted a while with his arms stretched out, and sang, and swayed as he sang.


Passage of utmost triumphant rapture:

And he sang to them, now in the Elven-tongue, now in the speech of the West, until their hearts, wounded with sweet words, overflowed, and their joy was like swords, and they passed in thought out to regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness.


Most poignant:

There still he stood far into the night, hearing only the sigh and murmur of the waves on the shores of Middle-earth, and the sound of them sank deep into his heart.​
 
S

Scottify

Member
That is just great, thanks for sharing. I love reading about author's and their feelings of certain passages in their books.
 
S

SiegfriedFM

Member
I've been slightly bedridden the last few days and plowed through a few Pratchett books again, but I've also been working through The Return of the Shadow. Does it ever go back and restart the story as we know it? It's fascinating to see how much of the story was written before even the most basic parts were decided - and how much was pasted onto new characters without missing a beat.

The idea of a gritty hobbit ranger is outrageous though. I keep picturing Trotter as The Mole from South Park.
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
SiegfriedFM said:
I've been slightly bedridden the last few days and plowed through a few Pratchett books again, but I've also been working through The Return of the Shadow. Does it ever go back and restart the story as we know it? It's fascinating to see how much of the story was written before even the most basic parts were decided - and how much was pasted onto new characters without missing a beat.

The idea of a gritty hobbit ranger is outrageous though. I keep picturing Trotter as The Mole from South Park.
Click to expand...
It was a natural evolution throughout Tolkien's drafting phases of The Lord of the Rings, with certain elements from different manuscripts been integrated to suit the needs of the narrative. There wasn't an abandonment and rebirth as dramatic as that of The Book of Lost Tales and The Silmarillion material. There was however a period where he abandoned writing of the story. When he did return to it, certain key changes were implemented, including Bingo's change of name to Frodo.
 
bengraven

bengraven

Member
Edmond Dantès;160336834 said:
Man builds Doors of Durin in his house

Tolkien’s drawing of the Doors of Durin in The Fellowship of the Ring, recreated in the films, is a well-known scene in The Lord of the Rings – now imagine building it in your own home.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ZS43Vt8G8
Click to expand...

Mellon.

Edmond Dantès;160233841 said:
Tolkien's Greatest Hits - The Most Impressive Wordplay from our Favorite Author
Click to expand...

Biutiful.
 
C

Corrupt

Member
Has Tolkien ever revealed more on the fate of Earnur? I know the Witch-King's challenge lured him into Minas Morgul and that he was never seen again, but I was wondering if Tolkien ever expanded on this in his letters? With Hurin and Thrain (maybe more who don't currently come to mind) being left alive to suffer I was interested to see if he hinted at the Witch-King doing similar.
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Corrupt said:
Has Tolkien ever revealed more on the fate of Earnur? I know the Witch-King's challenge lured him into Minas Morgul and that he was never seen again, but I was wondering if Tolkien ever expanded on this in his letters? With Hurin and Thrain (maybe more who don't currently come to mind) being left alive to suffer I was interested to see if he hinted at the Witch-King doing similar.
Click to expand...
Tolkien never did expound upon the fate of Earnur. He was a character whose fate Tolkien left to the imagination of his readers.

It can't have been a happy ending though. His reckless behaviour, akin to that of Fingolfin, could only lead to his destruction.
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Duress said:
I just finished the Silmarillion. How come Tolkien, never got around to fleshing out the Dwarven lore?
Click to expand...
As the language remained unfinished, the history of the Dwarves did too. It wasn't intentional, although he did seem to favour the Children of Iluvatar over the stepchildren. There simply wasn't enough time for Tolkien. Christopher Tolkien did however include much of the unfinished work relating to the Dwarves in the History of Middle-earth series.
 
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