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Tom Clancy's The Division |OT 3| Crafted From 150 OT 2’s

G

GazzaGSi

Member
EL CUCO said:
LOL in Massive's defense, performance has been rock solid since PS4 pro update. Even tho R6 targets 60, I've heard it drops frames a bunch.
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Shame they can't sort the lag, sometimes I'm running around the city and it literally pauses then sprints really quick to catch up. Not very often but is annoying, I'm also disappointed they haven't sorted the texture loading out when entering a new area and everything is popping in and still sorting itself out. The 4k HUD has actually helped though, used my OG ps4 the other night and the text is quite fuzzy compared to the pro.
 
W

Wallach

Member
Ruthless_Barbarian said:
But also increased the damage they do to compensate.

I bet the accuracy doesn't actually get patched and NPC's still do extra damage ;)
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That seems specific to Legendary. I'm referring to the global change. Shit was annoying across this entire game.

Showstopper only got an 11% base damage increase. I'll take it I guess, not sure it's enough though.
 
M

MythicReclaimer

Member
Ruthless_Barbarian said:
But also increased the damage they do to compensate.

I bet the accuracy doesn't actually get patched and NPC's still do extra damage ;)
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Reading that section of the changes made to Legendary missions this morning really made me shake my head.

"Slightly decreased accuracy, aiming and weapon spread of NPCs."

...but...

"Slightly increase NPC damage to compensate for accuracy and aiming changes."

The use of "slightly" makes me say why bother to the former and completely unnecessary to the latter.
 
M

MythicReclaimer

Member
So, yeah, Massive has drastically lowered the amount of +Health you can roll on gear in this PTS version where it used to be 25,000 on vest and kneepads it is now 14,000, 25,000 on backpacks is now 11,000, and 13,000 on Holsters is now 7,000.

Overall toughness is taking a huge hit because of this and about that free 80K Toughness, where is it?

This can't be right but I can't see them making such a huge mistake either.

I'm about to start a Legendary mission with 320K Toughness.
 
M

MythicReclaimer

Member
Mullah88 said:
what is the historians exotic talent?
Click to expand...

Each bullet embeds itself in target and explodes two seconds later for 20% skill power.

So I was using the exact same build as with the previous PTS (Reclaimer, 275K DPS, 400K Toughness, and 200K Skill Power, 33% Armor Mitigation) and with the massive reduction in +Health was only able to achieve 320K Toughness. I only went down twice during a completed Times Square Legendary run but was way too squishy. This is not how you increase difficulty.
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Last Stand is whatever to me. It's totally not for me.

DZ changes are nice, but you still run into ganking assholes (like I did) so it's not my cup of tea. Though I wish they'd put the leveling speed of the PTS in live for that.

Otherwise the one good thing the patch brings is PvE ganking Survival changes.

But still no endgame content for PvE players. :/
 
M

MythicReclaimer

Member
Just for comparison sake I went into the main game and equipped the same Reclaimer gear and same gear overall as well and these are the results with the same exact gear...

The Division 1.5 - 420K Toughness
The Division 1.6 PTS 1 - 400K Toughness
The Division 1.6 PTS 2 - 320K Toughness

...now take into account that every piece of gear that you can roll +Health on in that 1.6 PTS 2 setup has it rolled to near max. They just said yesterday they wanted the players to not have to roll +Health on everything possible in order to create build diversity. They've accomplished the opposite with this PTS 2.

Edit: Oh, wow, apparently this wasn't a mistake they just failed to mention that Stamina was going to scale differently now. The "free" 80K is included in that putrid 320K Toughness. A stealth Health/Toughness/Stamina nerf. Take cover agents.
 
G

GazzaGSi

Member
MythicReclaimer said:
Just for comparison sake I went into the main game and equipped the same Reclaimer gear and same gear overall as well and these are the results with the same exact gear...

The Division 1.5 - 420K Toughness
The Division 1.6 PTS 1 - 400K Toughness
The Division 1.6 PTS 2 - 320K Toughness

...now take into account that every piece of gear that you can roll +Health on in that 1.6 PTS 2 setup has it rolled to near max. They just said yesterday they wanted the players to not have to roll +Health on everything possible in order to create build diversity. They've accomplished the opposite with this PTS 2.
Click to expand...

You reckon they forgot that 80k health?
Health still seems BiS for all pieces that can roll it.
 
M

MythicReclaimer

Member
GazzaGSi said:
You reckon they forgot that 80k health?
Health still seems BiS for all pieces that can roll it.
Click to expand...

Nope, apparently some players over on reddit went sniffing around some game files a bit...

https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/5qkx8i/stamina_stealth_nerfed_in_pts_week_2/

...this is, umm, quite the change. It used to be 1 Stamina = 30 health points and now it's 1 Stamina = 15 health points.

Not only that but there was a massive change in the amount of +Health you can roll on gear from PTS 1 to PTS 2.

Edit: Honestly, at this point who knows what the numbers actually mean. 320K Toughness might be the old 420K and maybe I had a bit of a negative placebo effect. I'm going to run a couple more Legendary missions and see how it feels.
 
G

GazzaGSi

Member
MythicReclaimer said:
Nope, apparently some players over on reddit went sniffing around some game files a bit...

https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/5qkx8i/stamina_stealth_nerfed_in_pts_week_2/

...this is, umm, quite the change. It used to be 1 Stamina = 30 health points and now it's 1 Stamina = 15 health points.

Not only that but there was a massive change in the amount of +Health you can roll on gear from PTS 1 to PTS 2.

Edit: Honestly, at this point who knows what the numbers actually mean. 320K Toughness might be the old 420K and maybe I had a bit of a negative placebo effect. I'm going to run a couple more Legendary missions and see how it feels.
Click to expand...

Who knows what they're doing lol
Hopefully whatever it is they're attempting to achieve pays off.
 
M

MythicReclaimer

Member
GazzaGSi said:
Who knows what they're doing lol
Hopefully whatever it is they're attempting to achieve pays off.
Click to expand...

This iteration feels the absolute worst the game has ever felt for me. Horrendously long TTK for anything that isn't a red bar in Legendary missions and you might as well have zero toughness while all the enemies have the same speed and agility of a jaguar.

If they wanted everyone to be hunkered down in one spot with Smart Covers and Health Stations they should have left 1.3 alone but considering the movement speed of which all the enemies have now in Legendary, the 1.3 version might have felt better overall. My G36 felt like they gave it negative stability or something as well and this was with keyboard and mouse.

In the matter of three days I've gone from Legendary missions being the best thing I ever experienced in the game to now such a boring slog that I never want to play one again if this is the version we'll be getting. It's garbage. Well, Times Square seemed Ok but I was basically a feather, Napalm on the other hand was a nightmare in every respect even though we completed it. I have no desire to mess with WarrenGate right now.
 
R

Ruthless_Barbarian

Member
Smart cover is making a comeback with Skill builds being super OP.

So yeah, get ready to huddle into a corner behind cover all over again.

Not sure why people are complaining, they are making it a cover based game again ;)

ODDI said:
LVOA-C on sale at the Terminal
Adept
Vicious
Deadly
20% EaD
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lol that's pretty terrible.

MythicReclaimer said:
In the matter of three days I've gone from Legendary missions being the best thing I ever experienced in the game to now such a boring slog that I never want to play one again if this is the version we'll be getting. It's garbage. Well, Times Square seemed Ok but I was basically a feather, Napalm on the other hand was a nightmare in every respect even though we completed it. I have no desire to mess with WarrenGate right now.
Click to expand...

I've watched a couple of Legendary runs and I think they are pretty terrible, especially Napalm. All that time and effort for what, some mediocre looking cosmetics?

Smarter AI was one thing but that Napalm missions has like 250+ LMB mobs that just keep on coming and I practically fell asleep watching people shoot NPC's forever. With no checkpoints, one mistake can make all your progress worthless.

Massive hasn't learned anything in the pve department - making a harder difficulty = throwing endless waves of mobs at you.
 
F

fr0st

Banned
My fucking god more hidden changes that wasn't mentioned in the patch notes are being discover.

I guess it's a habit for them to do it.
 
S

SoulCaptain

Member
I know this is the thread for another Ubisoft multiplayer action game, but whatever:
I have 1 extra invite to the "For Honor" beta on PC,
if any of you fellow Division agents are interested,
post your Uplay nickname and I'll send you a friend request so I can invite you.
mine is "IdanDalal", feel free to add me anyway.
 
R

Ruthless_Barbarian

Member
fr0st said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/5qkx8i/stamina_stealth_nerfed_in_pts_week_2/

https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/5qlza3/minor_hidden_changes_for_pts_week_2/
Click to expand...

Oh yeah I know about those. (they said it on SotG but obviously didn't mention explicitly that stamina scaling was going nerfed to 50% lol)

It makes sense to massive because they uncapped skill power scaling till 450k so heals and smart cover get super effective. Hence the stamina scaling nerf keeping in tune with their design to reduce time to kill in pvp.

What is does though is make us squishier in pve (esp after the buff to npc damage) and the only way to stay alive would be to invest heavily in skill power for a strong heal and strong damage resistance from smart cover.

So...we're back to 1.3! GG Massive.
 
M

MythicReclaimer

Member
The idea that Massive somehow made changes based off data/feedback from PTS 1 without having implemented the drastic game-changing Health/Toughness changes that are in PTS 2 really tells me a lot about how they go about development. I mean they already knew they were going to destroy Stamina yet took feedback in regards to AI movement, damage output, etc. from a build that had essentially the same (maybe a little less) Toughness properties as 1.5 in a lot of respects. All of those things changed drastically when they decided to kill Stamina which made the feedback useless. I wanted Skill Power to be more of a factor as I complained about it since 1.4 but not with such a drastic change/sacrifice to Toughness.

1.4/1.5 was a total waste of time as 1.6 plays nothing like those iterations. You will be playing a version of the Division that is a lot closer to 1.3 than the past two updates. I'm utterly shocked they have gone back in that direction. They told you Health/Toughness was not going to be a big deal as you'll have plenty of it and we're even giving you 80K base Health for free. As a result you'd be able to spec differently with new/old options. Yeah, what they failed to tell you was that rolling +Health was going to be useless because of the way Stamina will now scale thus forcing you to pick another perk/attribute for some gear slots.

1.7 will probably feel like another drastic sway in one direction or another which just lends to consistently not having a well-balanced and stable core game.

Edit: I mean seriously it boggles my mind that they made changes to the Reclaimer set, etc based on a completely different functioning game from a Health/Toughness/Stamina standpoint.
 
M

MythicReclaimer

Member
For those who care there is a god-rolled VX-1 (12x) scope at The Crypt. Buy as many as you need and some extras for convenience sake.

Ruthless_Barbarian said:
I've watched a couple of Legendary runs and I think they are pretty terrible, especially Napalm. All that time and effort for what, some mediocre looking cosmetics?

Smarter AI was one thing but that Napalm missions has like 250+ LMB mobs that just keep on coming and I practically fell asleep watching people shoot NPC's forever. With no checkpoints, one mistake can make all your progress worthless.

Massive hasn't learned anything in the pve department - making a harder difficulty = throwing endless waves of mobs at you.
Click to expand...

They were a lot of fun in PTS 1 as you could be mobile yet you still had to coordinate and take cover at times or the threat of a wipe was very possible. In combination with the enemies being given more speed, agility tactics, increased damage output, harder armor to shred due to less EAD and the awful nerf to Health/Toughness/Stamina in PTS 2 they have been reduced to a boring slog that probably isn't even worth it for the Exotic Cache.

In their previous iteration there was some real fun to be had from moment-to-moment gameplay that really included everything the game had to offer from skills-to-movement-to-cover mechanics, Now? Huddle-up agents it's 4th down and 30.

My only hope now is at the very least they come to some middle-ground on this but I have a feeling they're going to be real stubborn.
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
How the hell are you supposed to go through the Incursions even on 1.5?

Me and someone else partied up, did the first(?) one to the north. We get through the first part in 30 mins of struggling (not knowing the enemies were infinite until you breached) and get to the second one. In a mad dash to kill the mortar, we have to HAUL containers through infinite enemies as well?

WTF?
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Ullus said:
My team and I just said fuck it once we got to the containers, no one was having fun.
Click to expand...

Yeah, as soon as I stealth'd past the enemies who were aggro'd on my party member. I went "fuck it" as soon as the objective changed to the containers.

Impossible to do that with 2, even worse with infinite spawns.
 
U

Ullus

Member
Wouldn't be so bad if the enemies spawned in waves, leaving you some time to move/rest. But the way it is now just makes it frustrating.
 
M

MythicReclaimer

Member
Just to give you an idea of how bad the Stamina main stat scales now...

Stamina at 4817 and Toughness at 312,607 while using a Firearms Barret's chest with two Electronic +Health mods

...now when I switch to a Stamina chest...

Stamina at 6360 and Toughness at 322,178 while using a Stamina Barret's chest with two Stamina +Health mods

...I just added 1500 to the Stamina main stat including replacing two Electronic Health mods with two Stamina Health mods and couldn't even gain 10k in Toughness.

Played a bit of Legendary WarrenGate with this Reclaimer setup (300K DPS, 312K Toughness, 200K Skill Power, 33% Armor Mitigation) as it is just about as min/maxed as you can get after recalibrating for free in PTS 2. The experience makes playing against Level 35 enemies in 1.3 seem like easy work. It's beyond dreadful.
 
R

Ruthless_Barbarian

Member
TheSeks said:
How the hell are you supposed to go through the Incursions even on 1.5?

Me and someone else partied up, did the first(?) one to the north. We get through the first part in 30 mins of struggling (not knowing the enemies were infinite until you breached) and get to the second one. In a mad dash to kill the mortar, we have to HAUL containers through infinite enemies as well?

WTF?
Click to expand...

Ullus said:
My team and I just said fuck it once we got to the containers, no one was having fun.
Click to expand...

TheSeks said:
Yeah, as soon as I stealth'd past the enemies who were aggro'd on my party member. I went "fuck it" as soon as the objective changed to the containers.

Impossible to do that with 2, even worse with infinite spawns.
Click to expand...

Ullus said:
Wouldn't be so bad if the enemies spawned in waves, leaving you some time to move/rest. But the way it is now just makes it frustrating.
Click to expand...

Clear Skies is definitely one incursion that a really good player can solo at the same time an uncoordinated group of 4 can be stuck at for hours ;)

It's not that hard but if you don't understand the "mechanics" you will only get frustrated and wipe over and over.

1) In the starting area, kill the snipers and push ahead to spawn the shotgunners and the elite with the bomb. Focus on the elite asap, grab the bomb and plant it. More enemies will spawn including 2 heavies, and the mortar will start targeting you as well.

2) Kill the heavies and don't stay in one spot all the time or the mortar will make it very hard for you. As soon as the other bomb elite spawns, focus him down, plant the second bomb and go through the container. You can leave the remaining enemies behind, no need to finish them. Good teams can clear this part in under 5 mins ;)

3) Welcome to the circle of hell. The ammo box on the outside will refill all ammo, medkits and frag nades. The 2 ammo crates inside will only refill ammo.

4) There are multiple ways to tackle the circle. One way is to have everyone on the same side and stay together. Another way is to split up into 2 teams on each side. You could also set up on one of the elevated posts and snipe enemies till one person can pick up the fuse.

5) For new players the best strategy is to stay together and one side. Start from the left. The game will tell you that you have to activate a console in the front of the circle first - that is actually not required. You can start the waves by running straight to the fuse and picking it up.

6) The whole mechanic here is around aggro and keeping threat away from the fuse carrier. Killing enemies does not matter since they respawn infinitely and within seconds. Have 2 players assigned to dps/tank who will hold the aggro of the mobs while one player picks up the fuse and takes it to the generator, supported by the last payer with heals. Survival link helps a lot here since you get damage resistance and faster movement speed.

7) The dps/tank players need to be able to maintain the aggro while the fuse carrier does its job. Important thing to remember here is that you don't want to split the aggro, so don't shoot any enemies on the other side. If you do, they will flank you from behind. If they get aggro'ed on their own, they usually run from the front so you can maintain the aggro in one direction. The one thing you have to worry about is the mortar - dodge that ASAP. As for the NPC's, priority is killing the shotgunners and snipers. Crowd control works wonders here.

8) Fuse carrier can walk either front or take it via the back, whatever feels safer to the team. Front is riskier but tanky players can do it pretty quickly. Back route is slightly longer but can be a lot safer if other players are able to hold off aggro. If fuse carrier gets targeted by the mortar, drop it and roll away asap. Once you plug in the first fuse, rotate to the other side (from the back) and repeat the same thing.

9) Once you plug in both the fuses, you have to activate the laptop in the front to summon the boss. Don't worry about the mobs, focus the boss. Flank him and try to get his backpack. As soon as you kill the boss, the mobs will stop respawning. Finish off the mobs and you're done.

10) Ideally your group setup should be 2 tanks (D3-FNC set works wonders), 1 healer (reclaimer or tactician) and 1 with dps/crowd control. Flame turrets, gas mines and flash bangs work really well for crowd control. Good luck.
 
M

MythicReclaimer

Member
Still managing to have fun with the Legendary Times Square mission even with the current Toughness situation probably because of it's layout more than anything else as it allows for a lot of tactical strats with tons of cover at the street level and a few snipers' nests here and there instead of play-spaces that essentially force you to bunch up nearly all the time and funnel the enemies toward you. Plus it cracks me up seeing enemies come out up through manholes for some reason (during first street encounter).

Finally got a Ferro's mask from an Exotic Cache after opening 113 of them although it doesn't fit nor is it necessary with my Reclaimer build.

Edit: To expand on Times Square a bit, after the first two encounters the mission opens up and allows you to push directly forward with lots of strategically placed ground cover and as mentioned some sniper spots as well. I was with a group last night that essentially pushed and confused the AI by placing a sniper on the left side, myself in the middle with a G36/Historian combo with the Reclaimer set, and the other two players together on the right side with ARs/LMGs and a Reclaimer as well. We pushed and pushed until completion with some slight variations in formation as necessary along the way. This setup allowed us to trap the enemy in crossfire while getting/creating good lines of sight as they would attempt to try and flank unsuccessfully due to our team being spread out. These are the type of tactical experiences I want from the game rather than the the huddled up Napalm and WarrenGate slogs.
 
M

MythicReclaimer

Member
Insane Metal said:
Hahahahahahahah

Oh man I'd laugh my ass off if I saw that in the DZ. 😂
Click to expand...

Unless it is exclusive to one platform which I don't think it is you'll be seeing it in the 1.6 update.

Regarding Toughness, some developers have relayed that everything is being "closely" monitored, taking into account/consideration. We'll see.
 
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