Thicc Enigma
Member
Let's rage. Start the thread on Era. Series S no disc drive= anti consumer. They're trying to force me to buy the more expensive Series X for a disc drive. Very anti consumer. How dare they?!
Tom Warren: XSS specs (20CU at 1.55Ghz ≈ 3.97TF, similar CPU to XSX, PCIe4 SSD ,, >250W, 10GB of ram and no disk drive)
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Isn't the XSS to XSX like the XB1 is to the XB1X. Why would you skip a platform that has the same technology just scaled down? On top of that the XSS would most likely have more customers if the price is right so that would make even less sense.
I agree but I hope you will rage at the PS5DE too. If no disc drive is anti-consumer for Xbox it is for PlayStation too.
Thicc Enigma
Member
The people who have no technical understanding of what's in these machines that are also saying 6TF in a Xbox One X is better than 4TF in a Series S, please go do some Googling and YouTube searches to educate yourselves on the matter. You're looking incredibly stupid talking as if you know what you're talking about when in fact you clearly don't. This applies to 12GB GDDR5 RAM> 10GB GDDR6 RAM statements as well.
Yet the 5Tflop 5500XT is 10% faster than the 6.3Tflop rx580 (which is Polaris 20 btw). If we convert that to a very rough fps/tflop metric you get 10/Tflop on the rx580 and 13.6/Tflop on 5500XT. That means that a 4 Tflop RDNA GPU with sufficient bandwidth would match a 5.44Tflop Polaris GPU.
RDNA2 is superior to RDNA and it will only take a 10% IPC uplift for 4Tflop RDNA2 to match 6Tflop Polaris and considering the 50% perf/watt increase AMD is touting 10% IPC is on the low end of what is required.
geordiemp
Member
Oh the Xb1, XB1X and ps4 are all crap compared to Zen2, RDNA2 and SSD in any configuration, there is no comparison to be made.
Thicc Enigma
Member
I mean, I'm being sarcastic on my reply lol but to entertain your post. The PS5 DE and thicc PS5 are the same exact console minus a disc drive. The Series S vs the Series X is a different scenario. It's a weaker console than Series X only offering a digital version for a completely different console that will also be considerably cheaper does suck. It forces people to buy the Series X although they just wanted a disc drive for next gen content. PS5 DE and PS5 Thicc are the same console with and without a disc drive and rumored to be $50-$100 cheaper than the one with the disc drive while the Series S/X is looking like a $200 difference. Makes sense?
And just as a reminder, I was being sarcastic in my initial reply but I figured why not entertain your silly post.
Tulipanzo
Member
You're using metrics that are based on just one datapoint (which you still haven't provided a link to btw).
DF actually looked at IPC gains by matching the cards.
So, by looking at multiple cards, including the RX580 in fact, improvements are 18% over Polaris.
Still, I'd love to know why a 1080p device would ever need to run 4K enhancements.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Your prices are TERRIBLE! My god man lol. MS wouldn't even make Lockhart if the XSX was $100 cheaper than the PS5 Physical. It'll defeat the purpose.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
What seems pretty silly to me is to have a double standard. Giving consumers a choice is a good thing. The XSS is 'weaker' but has much more current tech than the XB1. If it plays the same games at a lower rez and minus a few effects it shouldn't be a problem at all. If people are looking for a good deal the missing disc drive won't be a reason to get upset especially if Sony is also selling a discless option. Do you rage at Nvidia for selling a 'weaker' GPU than the GTX 2080? I sure hope so.
Tulipanzo
Member
I think the major issue I wanted to bring up was how the Series S may not run X1X-specific 4K enhancements.
A GPU in the same ballpark but with a completely different CUs, clocks, and architecture seems like it'd create compatibility problems, and I don't see why a 1080p device would need to run 4K content anyway.
The Series S, to be clear, is more advanced in many regards, but I feel is a much tougher sell than a cheap used X1X at this point. The lack of a disc-drive, and potentially running X1 games at lower res are the big ones, and MS is still refusing to market the thing. I suspect they're aware of how hard it is to explain, especially so close to launch.
Lol using 3d mark and DX 11 when xbox is dx12. What the fuck.
Navi vs Polaris. This is the 5700/XT review for perf/flop where Navi is 39% ahead of polaris 30.
5500XT vs RX580.
What 4k enhancements are you blathering about? VRS, fp16, int8, RTRT are all effective at 1080p and 1440p.
WatDat
Banned
I wish to HELL it didn't make me so sick though. Tried it NUMEROUS times but perhaps my eyes/brain are just not wired correctly.
It's like motion sickness combined with day after Jägermeister hangover.
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Craig of War
Banned
The price is gone to be the most important thing to the casual gamer the hardcore fans will go for the higher end wile the casual will go for the cheapest so if they price it right 199-299 is the sweet spot anything higher and it will not do well.
Thicc Enigma
Member
You really don't get it do you.
It's not a double standard. It's not about "it's stronger than XB1" but Xbox and Sony's offerings will be stronger than previous gen machines. That's a fact. The issue here is that Xbox is offering a lower entry to next gen with a only digital machine at or around $299 WHILE also being weaker than the true next gen machine that they'll probably sell at $499 that includes more upgrades and not just a disc drive. That's a $200 difference.
Sony is offering a digital entry (probably at $399) to next gen that's ALSO equivalent to the disc version that they'll probably sell at $499. That's a $100 different for the SAME experience as the disc version.
If Xbox wants to capitalize on their cheaper entry to next gen they SHOULD also offer a disc version of the Series S so that more people can buy their system resulting in a shit ton of sales for them. So imagine a scenario where they have a disc and discless Series S at $249-$299 and a Series X at $499. The Series S will be selling like hot cakes. By locking the Series S to only digital for next gen sucks, especially if it's a lesser experience than the Series X. PS5 DE and PS5 Thicc are offering the SAME experience at a price delta that's insignificant in comparison.
WatDat
Banned
Tulipanzo
Member
If you actually read the linked article they tested DX12 right below it, and a Navi card at 4TF would still be outperformed.
If you're bringing in an article from some website in Germany as your only proof that all is fine, then sorry if that's not a whole lot.
Still, I was talking specifically about X1X-specific patches.
4K enhancements are the patches that bring X1 games to 4K when running on X1X, and I don't see how those would translate to a card with completely different RAM, CUs, clock setups on a different architecture. Or frankly, why a 1080p device would need to run such 4K patches in the first place.
anothertech
Member
BWAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAAAA
You said it yourself pipe dreamer!
More likely scenario: dad sees Craig, immediately buys the other console...
Tulipanzo
Member
It seems some people can't take any criticism to the box MS is too afraid to actually show to the public.
Please explain why you think the Series S, a 1080p console, would need to run 4K patches for X1 games. Or how patches built specifically for more RAM, and a more performant, albeit older, GPU would translate without extra work.
When it comes to hardware computerbase, anandtech, techpowerup etc are far more reliable sources than Digital Foundry. I could have used Techpowerup numbers but they test a lot of older games too which is perfectly valid in the PC sphere but for forward looking consoles it skews the picture. You could also look at stuff like Forza Horizon 4 and gears 5 where the 5500XT is 10% ahead of the RX580.
The 4k stuff for one x will work just fine on series s because RDNA supports the APIs GCN does.
It's incredible that you can do a "great job" on speculation and rumors.
What a stupid hype cycle this upcoming gen has already.
It makes a site become untrustworthy, it's almost as bad as DigitalFoundry doing speculative analysis by comparing PCs with "similar" specs that don't have any of the "secret sauce" optimizations when they were always primarily a solid source for information that did STRICTLY analysis of real world performance of products.
IF this is all just garbage and not true, it's a road that once you go down, "reporting" on farts in the wind, that you can't come back from.
Many of these articles are the equivalent of real journalist writing pieces about Trump's 2020 inauguration before it actually happens or results come out.
This entire thread is a great time to step back and realize how pathetic and piety it is to fight over speculative articles from random sources and see how much anxiety and stress all this bullshit brings to people.
TL;Can't Read: Sane people need to read this and step back and realize how dumb this entire thing has gotten, refocus and wait for actual information.
What a stupid hype cycle this upcoming gen has already.
It makes a site become untrustworthy, it's almost as bad as DigitalFoundry doing speculative analysis by comparing PCs with "similar" specs that don't have any of the "secret sauce" optimizations when they were always primarily a solid source for information that did STRICTLY analysis of real world performance of products.
IF this is all just garbage and not true, it's a road that once you go down, "reporting" on farts in the wind, that you can't come back from.
Many of these articles are the equivalent of real journalist writing pieces about Trump's 2020 inauguration before it actually happens or results come out.
This entire thread is a great time to step back and realize how pathetic and piety it is to fight over speculative articles from random sources and see how much anxiety and stress all this bullshit brings to people.
TL;Can't Read: Sane people need to read this and step back and realize how dumb this entire thing has gotten, refocus and wait for actual information.
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GHG
Member
I gave you the "empathy" emoji because I genuinely feel for you.
Delusion can be tough to deal with sometimes.
AllBizness
Banned
Poor thing, my 6 year old nephew can play some games like Teris in VR with no problem.I wish to HELL it didn't make me so sick though. Tried it NUMEROUS times but perhaps my eyes/brain are just not wired correctly.
It's like motion sickness combined with day after Jägermeister hangover.
Tulipanzo
Member
In this case DF got the same results that AMD advertised, so I don't know where exactly you think they went "wrong". You're just using a single card pairing, using general results, then extrapolating about how a card that's 20% weaker, AND slower, than the 5500xt would do. That to me seems pretty silly.
APIs are a way to interface with the tool. The same code will be understood, that doesn't mean it will run.
Both Sony and MS, working on much more powerful machines, are still working hard to ensure compatibility. A GPU "in the same ballpark" with less RAM and a GPU with less raw power are far more complicated.
Still, why would a 1080p device need to run 4K patches in the first place? It seems like a needless waste of resources for something your target audience won't use.
Angel of BOOM!
Member
I'd be tempted by an XBsS after getting a PS5 if it was cheap enough (299).
However, the biggest thing putting me off is not know what games will work with it. For example, Fable is targeting XBsX. Does that mean it will not run on XBsS? Their message need major clarify. At least with the two PS5 editions I know what I'm getting. Know that all the future PS5 games will work on either of them.
I'm not so sure about the XBsS...
However, the biggest thing putting me off is not know what games will work with it. For example, Fable is targeting XBsX. Does that mean it will not run on XBsS? Their message need major clarify. At least with the two PS5 editions I know what I'm getting. Know that all the future PS5 games will work on either of them.
I'm not so sure about the XBsS...
Tulipanzo
Member
It's a matter of getting more used to it, and some games do a way better job of handling motion sickness.I wish to HELL it didn't make me so sick though. Tried it NUMEROUS times but perhaps my eyes/brain are just not wired correctly.
It's like motion sickness combined with day after Jägermeister hangover.
I could only handle an hour of DOOM VFR, but could play Resi 7 or Superhot no problem
Tulipanzo
Member
It's weird af, because I'd say it'd run, but then Tom Warren posts this graph with "Series X Exclusives" on it. Delaying the announcement is only creating more confusion.
Games should run on both, but it's likely the Series S has the same problem the X1S does, where stuff just runs bad because developers don't optimize for the console.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Hahahaha this is the best post seen all day.
Well done son.
People concerned about the Series S not having a disk drive are a special breed.
We need them to keep us entertained....please protect them.
Thicc Enigma
Member
It's better than the One X that sold for $499 when it launched. At $299 it's the sweet spot for this.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
geordiemp
Member
Shame I think the lockart is a good idea, decent spec for what its doing and much better than XB1X and more efficient and better than anything current gen. Zen2 alone sees to that,
Should of had a disk drive for back compat though...it is one of the xbox strengths.
I prefer sony this gen yes, last gen was 360 preference, but a good idea is a good idea. There should always be a mini me and a big console for the differing tastes, bedroom tvs and 65 inch oleds.
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Jon Neu
Banned
You're gonna probably have those games in the gamepass anyway.
Craig of War
Banned
What did you expect bro The Sony fanboys made up like 80 percent of the people on here do not expect any Xbox or even Nintendo thread to not get troll lol
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Its not Tom Warrens graph.
TweakTown made it, they likely put Series X exclusive simply to mean nextgen games.
Xbox games for the Series branch of consoles will work on both X and S and an eventual Series U(ltra)
IF thats really confusing to you id hate to imagine what real life must be like for you.
The reason current titles say Series X is because there isnt officially a Series S so they cant put Series S on the box or whatever.
Just think; if the new game has an Xbox logo on it, and you have a new Xbox console the game will work.
Dont think too hard about it.
geordiemp
Member
If I got a lcokart i would want to be beaking out by gaiden 360 collection......
Knitted Knight
Banned
AMD advertised 50% perf/watt over Vega and they hit or exceeded that.
A single card pairing? I gave a link that compares a 1.5Ghz 5700XT to a 1.5Ghz RX590 and across a multi game test the RDNA gpu was 39% faster with the same amount of compute performance. I also gave a link comparing the 5500XT to the RX580 which when normalised shows a 36% performance uplift with a more bandwidth constrained iteration of RDNA. This also compares Navi10 and Navi 14 to Polaris 30 and Polaris 20 respectively.
As I said when it comes to testing PC hardware DF is a long way down my list of trusted sources.
The Series S is a 1080p device for next gen games. For current gen running the one x enhancements seems. For example my ryzen 2200G has a crap GPU but it can easily run older stuff at 4k. Same will apply to the series S GPU.
Jon Neu
Banned
Sometimes it feels like 95%. And the funny thing is how they mass report everything that they don't like but I'm pretty sure they hardly get reported for their shit. It's another advantage of the vastly superiority in numbers.
It is what it is, I guess.
geordiemp
Member
Yes, anyone who thinks a zen2 and RDNA2 with SSD can be challenged by current gen consoles is smoking the funny shit, there is no contest.
Jaguar needs to die already.
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WatDat
Banned
Digital Foundry did the tests and 4TFLOPS RDNA is around same performance as 6TFLOPS GCN. And performance will be even better on Lockhart because RDNA 2 can give even better performance per TFLOP, so Lockhart GPU will for sure be better then Xbox One X
Also, Lockhart don't need that much RAM, because console is targeting 1440p/1080p. Xbox One X targeted 4K resolutions. And I'm not event talking about fact, that Lockhart has access to XVA and NVMe SSD drive. And also way better CPU
So, XsS will have better performance, access to current gen technologies while targeting lower resolution then Xbox One X.
And that's enough
I thought I explained it. If you're happy with your 1080p TV (millions of people) you may feel paying more for a system just for a higher resolution is a waste of money.
It's like if you have a 1080p monitor and buy a 2080 Ti. It's overkill.
geordiemp
Member
Well you would expect a ratio similar to console owndership, so 66 % or so.
Back on topic, hope they release a disk drive for lockart..
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Sucks that it will be wasted on just "higher resolution" of a much more anemic box, GPU wise.
Tulipanzo
Member
???
Consoles aren't PC, you have to code games to include these enhancements.
You'd have to check compatibility with Series S against a GPU with more raw power on a system with more RAM.
All this, so your 1080p device can boast 4K patches? Seems very unlikely and a waste of resources
Knitted Knight
Banned
How many threads are you going to go into and whine about PS "fanboys".... put your big boy pants on. You literally go crying about woke Sony on PS threads yet ask for safe space? What are we doing here?
Same dude that went months trolling TLOUII threads, even well past release with obvious trolling.
Xbox fans have it great on Gaf. First page alone is full of Xbox related threads. Considering the share of consumers Xbox makes up, the rate at which MS loses souls the more Phil talks..... the quality of the games or lack of that get released for the Xbox systems and the state of affairs you would think Xbox would be a blip in the radar.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
So less RAM than the X1X?