The seascooter session in the pools in London is really really painful and annoying to play. Probably the worst part of the whole trilogy.
Tomb Raider I-III Remastered |OT| Don't you think you've seen enough?
Alex11
Member
IDK, I never had any problem with the save system, yeah, it's much easier with unlimited now, too easy in fact. In an RPG it's a given to have unlimited saves, but in a platformer, it kind of defeats the purpose.
I mean, what's the point of that perfect series of jumps and stuff if we're gonna save after every step? Beating TR3 on new game+ is nerve wrecking, but so good.
Maybe the best would have been to have more crystals.
Well, I personally don't have a problem with those levels, but I can understand how those are the least favourite.
The only thing I didn't like was the underwater section with the UPV, that thing can fuck off into oblivion. IMO the boss fight there was very interesting and I liked it.
But yeah, comparing the classics to the new TR trilogy, what a difference, I need to play these on the most extreme difficulty - which I normally don't like - to have that feeling back.
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SkylineRKR
Member
The limited saves worked in TR1 for me. That game felt balanced, without too much shit going on. I beat the PS version without too much issues save for a few tough levels here and there (Sr Francis and Atlantis). The sequels ramped the death traps up tenfold, and TR2 upped the ante with hitscan enemies as well. Recently I needed the saves to beat TLR. You can ofcourse opt not to save too often.
TLR runs circles around the latest trilogy.
TLR runs circles around the latest trilogy.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
The first London level was really good! I was stuck for a few minutes towards the end, when I thought I had to make a ridiculously precise jump into a small pool of water. I knew it was too precise to be mandatory, but I gave it a few tries anyway. The real solution, of course, was much simpler.
My main problem with TR3 is that it's very hard to see shit at times. The original graphics are awful on modern TVs, and the contrast is simply terrible with a lot of stuff hidden in pure darkness. The remaster has some legibility problems too, though. In the jungle levels they added foliage that hides some platforms you have to reach, it's stupid.
Those climbable surfaces in the Pacific levels are the worst. I don't understand how one was supposed to recognize them in the original game. They're very generic textures, nothing makes them stand out from the background textures.
My main problem with TR3 is that it's very hard to see shit at times. The original graphics are awful on modern TVs, and the contrast is simply terrible with a lot of stuff hidden in pure darkness. The remaster has some legibility problems too, though. In the jungle levels they added foliage that hides some platforms you have to reach, it's stupid.
Those climbable surfaces in the Pacific levels are the worst. I don't understand how one was supposed to recognize them in the original game. They're very generic textures, nothing makes them stand out from the background textures.
The point is that after that perfect series of jumps, the game will troll you with a curveball more often than not. The Pacific levels here must have had people pulling their hair out back in '98 with limited saves. It's literally trap after trap after trap, and some are definitely going to kill you at least the first time unless you have perfect reflexes and can figure your way out in a split second. Madubu Gorge almost made me ragequit the game for good, but that temple after the gorge was egregious too.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Dumb ass 14 year old me came from the previous generation not knowing you need a memory card.
And because of that I completed TR1 & RE1 without saves....that was painful.
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NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
Aldwych is now officially one of my favorite TR levels of all time. An absolute monster of a level, twisting and turning in so many ways and with so many interesting rooms. It's also very fair, with few insta-death traps and only one really unforgiving setpiece. Plus, the enemies are very manageable. The atmosphere is top-notch too, with the horror vibes that come from exploring a (quasi) deserted everyday place.
The level has one issue though, and that's the fact that there's a couple of things you have to interact with and it's not clear at all that you can interact with them. Plus, finding one of those two keys had me stuck for a long time. Still an incredibly designed level.
The level has one issue though, and that's the fact that there's a couple of things you have to interact with and it's not clear at all that you can interact with them. Plus, finding one of those two keys had me stuck for a long time. Still an incredibly designed level.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
It is indeed a great level, but you're in Lud's Gate now so you're officially TR3's bitch for the duration of that level. Good fucking luck cuz you'll need it.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
I dunno man, Lud's Gate wasn't really that bad imo.
My only huge problem with it was that sometimes it's really, really hard to spot essential items in this game, especially with the remastered graphics. I got very close to the end of the level, only to find I'd missed a required key and had to look up where it was... and no, it didn't really stand out from the floor it was on.
Incidentally, when looking up where to find the damn key, I also found out I had missed a pretty sizeable optional chunk of the level when I decided to drop down that chute instead of going beyond those sarcophagi. TR3 has a bunch of levels where like half of the walkable space is completely optional.
Anyway, the only really hard moment in Lud's Gate was finding the air pocket in that wretched underwater section. The rest went by pretty smoothly. I had way more trouble with finding my way through Aldwych.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Well thats impressive. It was quite an ordeal for me and I was so glad once I got past it.
Enjoy Antarctica if you headed there next; its so beautiful and the atmosphere is top tier!
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
I still have Nevada to do before that.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
So I've beaten TR3 for the first time.
It's fair to say this game has some of the best levels in the series. Nevada is consistently great; I enjoyed having one level where you are unarmed until the end and have to deal with beating enemies in other ways. It's ridiculous that fucking Area 51 has less fierce security than, say, Venice from TR2, but game logic. And to think I kept Nevada for last because I thought it'd be the hardest!
London is great too, in spite of a rough start at the wharf. Aldwych is a fantastic level. Lud's Gate is a good, if frustrating, challenge.
South Pacific was the worst of the bunch by a mile. Madubu Gorge was by far the most frustrating level in the game. After a rather manageable start, it had me banging my head against the wall several times. Way too long, too much high-precision platforming, and that blasted kayak.
Madubu Gorge is but a taste of what's coming in the final three levels. The mines are downright criminal with those cart rides and that terrible, terrible section with the freezing water that forces you to heal to not die. This is not good design, in a game where underwater sections are already as trial-and-error as they get. I had my complaints about TR2 starting levels with Lara underwater and a limited time to get her to safety, but this here is way worse than that.
Then you have that lost city that after a mild start, first gives you a cryptic puzzle that I can guess had many people stumped throughout the years. And then there's that whole series of ordeals that barely hold together, or make sense. The underwater trial is absolutely crazy, the swamp and the way back from there is horribly annoying, and the fire trial is borderline idiotic.
And then you have that disgrace of a final level. First the boss fight with the boss that has a lock-on, unavoidable one-hit kill that he will use as soon as you step over an arbitrary boundary, as if the arena wasn't a pain in the ass already. Then, right at the end, you have to wait for the helicopter to land and the final gate to open instead of just triggering a cutscene when you reach the gate. I kept going back and fro through the level for minutes, convinced I had missed some switch or ledge, because the gate wouldn't open until I spent enough time in front of it. Bad, bad design.
It's fair to say this game has some of the best levels in the series. Nevada is consistently great; I enjoyed having one level where you are unarmed until the end and have to deal with beating enemies in other ways. It's ridiculous that fucking Area 51 has less fierce security than, say, Venice from TR2, but game logic. And to think I kept Nevada for last because I thought it'd be the hardest!
London is great too, in spite of a rough start at the wharf. Aldwych is a fantastic level. Lud's Gate is a good, if frustrating, challenge.
South Pacific was the worst of the bunch by a mile. Madubu Gorge was by far the most frustrating level in the game. After a rather manageable start, it had me banging my head against the wall several times. Way too long, too much high-precision platforming, and that blasted kayak.
Madubu Gorge is but a taste of what's coming in the final three levels. The mines are downright criminal with those cart rides and that terrible, terrible section with the freezing water that forces you to heal to not die. This is not good design, in a game where underwater sections are already as trial-and-error as they get. I had my complaints about TR2 starting levels with Lara underwater and a limited time to get her to safety, but this here is way worse than that.
Then you have that lost city that after a mild start, first gives you a cryptic puzzle that I can guess had many people stumped throughout the years. And then there's that whole series of ordeals that barely hold together, or make sense. The underwater trial is absolutely crazy, the swamp and the way back from there is horribly annoying, and the fire trial is borderline idiotic.
And then you have that disgrace of a final level. First the boss fight with the boss that has a lock-on, unavoidable one-hit kill that he will use as soon as you step over an arbitrary boundary, as if the arena wasn't a pain in the ass already. Then, right at the end, you have to wait for the helicopter to land and the final gate to open instead of just triggering a cutscene when you reach the gate. I kept going back and fro through the level for minutes, convinced I had missed some switch or ledge, because the gate wouldn't open until I spent enough time in front of it. Bad, bad design.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
TR3 is all over the place. It starts with a trap slide, then you get the temple which is virtually on par with TR1 and 2's longest and hardest levels. Then a couple of short intermission levels, and from there it swings from high to low without rhyme or reason. The game loves throwing you a curveball, like in that jungle level with the piranhas in the river or the wall to blow. It's so wildly inconsistent with its design and difficulty. TR1 was a nice crescendo of complexity and difficulty, and TR2 was a bitch from the start, but they were consistent. TR3 is clearly a patchwork of ideas that don't share a common blueprint. When they got it right, it's brilliant. When they just didn't have a solid idea behind a level, they went all out with the deathtraps.
The game's main problem, though, is that you can't see shit. The remake puts a partial patch to the original's lighting, but it's still hit and miss. Sure, some ridiculously dark parts like the underwater section in Lud's Gate, which must have been an absolute nightmare in the original, are now way more readable. But there's so many levers and switches and interactive monitors that are too hard to spot in both versions, as if the levels weren't already complicated enough. The lower section in the mines with the giant mutants is batshit crazy whatever version you're playing. Utterly impossible to understand what's going on there unless you light a flare, but then of course you have to fight against these hulking brutes in tight tunnels. Brilliant, just brilliant.
I salute those who managed to beat the game on PlayStation. The infinite saves of the PC and modern versions make TR3 bearable in spite of some insane parts. But I can't imagine doing it on console, with limited saves and those loading times. I remember barely beating TR2 on console, but using the level skip cheat in some of the later levels. I don't really regret being so burned by TR2 that I abandoned the series completely until Anniversary.
The game's main problem, though, is that you can't see shit. The remake puts a partial patch to the original's lighting, but it's still hit and miss. Sure, some ridiculously dark parts like the underwater section in Lud's Gate, which must have been an absolute nightmare in the original, are now way more readable. But there's so many levers and switches and interactive monitors that are too hard to spot in both versions, as if the levels weren't already complicated enough. The lower section in the mines with the giant mutants is batshit crazy whatever version you're playing. Utterly impossible to understand what's going on there unless you light a flare, but then of course you have to fight against these hulking brutes in tight tunnels. Brilliant, just brilliant.
I salute those who managed to beat the game on PlayStation. The infinite saves of the PC and modern versions make TR3 bearable in spite of some insane parts. But I can't imagine doing it on console, with limited saves and those loading times. I remember barely beating TR2 on console, but using the level skip cheat in some of the later levels. I don't really regret being so burned by TR2 that I abandoned the series completely until Anniversary.
Rivdoric
Member
Well, since this thread is getting bumped up, you guys should REALLY try the new "Gold Edition" mod made by some of the best modders of Tomb raider forums :
www.nexusmods.com
This is worth every patch the devs never cared to release.
They reworked basically everything.
Tomb Raider I-III Remastered Gold Edition
The Gold Edition is a major overhaul update of the remasters, including higher resolution textures, countless improved or remade 3D objects, fully revamped sound effects, improved sound design, better
www.nexusmods.com
This is worth every patch the devs never cared to release.
They reworked basically everything.
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TerribleAtThisGame
Member
I had TR3 on PS1 and considering how rare it was for me to get a new game due to age + price, I stopped playing it after a few levels even then. Like you said, the game is fucking bipolar. It goes from wowing you to absolutely stupid gotcha death trap fests quickly. Many of them are designed in a way that you end up creeping through levels at a snail's pace and still end up inevitably getting screwed because the reaction times aren't reasonable.
I've always considered it too frustrating and convoluted for its own good. But your post is spot on. The game tricks you into loving it, then follows with a level that makes you wonder why the hell you're playing this mess. I still think they nailed the formula the first time and kept over-tweaking it in every sequel.
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
Hats off to these guys and shame on the company handling this project. The usual. Pump out the bare minimum and the dedicated fanbase ends up sacrificing their own precious time doing god's work for free.Well, since this thread is getting bumped up, you guys should REALLY try the new "Gold Edition" mod made by some of the best modders of Tomb raider forums :
Tomb Raider I-III Remastered Gold Edition
The Gold Edition is a major overhaul update of the remasters, including higher resolution textures, countless improved or remade 3D objects, fully revamped sound effects, improved sound design, better
This is worth every patch the devs never cared to release.
They reworked basically everything.
SkylineRKR
Member
This is why for me TR4 and TR1 are the best.
Tomb Raider 4 is difficult though, but mostly because of the lack of a map and some puzzles barely make sense. I found the amount of death traps to be manageable, and there aren't too many enemies (the few set pieces against mercs are actually good). Its authentic tomb raiding.
T8SC
Member
I agree, TR3 for me wasn't great. I had them all back on the PS1 in the 90s, TR1 & 2 were amazing. Ok TR2 had a few too many human enemies but the level design for the most part was brilliant. TR1 is just unbeatable. TR4 went back to it's roots in a sense, doing some actual 'tomb raiding'. London & Nevada just didn't feel like Tomb Raider.
Branded
Member
That's actually insane.Well, since this thread is getting bumped up, you guys should REALLY try the new "Gold Edition" mod made by some of the best modders of Tomb raider forums :
Tomb Raider I-III Remastered Gold Edition
The Gold Edition is a major overhaul update of the remasters, including higher resolution textures, countless improved or remade 3D objects, fully revamped sound effects, improved sound design, better
This is worth every patch the devs never cared to release.
They reworked basically everything.
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
I fully agree. I have more nostalgia for TR2 ultimately but TR4 feels like they took a step back for a minute and balanced the scales again for the most part and made possibly the best one after TR1. It's not perfect but a lot more coherent and thought-out than TR3 in my opinion.
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
Would that theoretically work on the Deck too?Well, since this thread is getting bumped up, you guys should REALLY try the new "Gold Edition" mod made by some of the best modders of Tomb raider forums :
Tomb Raider I-III Remastered Gold Edition
The Gold Edition is a major overhaul update of the remasters, including higher resolution textures, countless improved or remade 3D objects, fully revamped sound effects, improved sound design, better
This is worth every patch the devs never cared to release.
They reworked basically everything.
Not that it matters but it would be great portable to have.
Rivdoric
Member
Would that theoretically work on the Deck too?
Not that it matters but it would be great portable to have.
Yes it should afaik.
The only increase should be memory usage because all assets are now 1024X1024 instead of 512X512.
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NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
I only tried 2-3 levels in TR4 and I had a lot of trouble figuring out some stuff. There was a couple of rooms with mummies where I spent several minutes just trying to figure out what the game wanted me to do.
Rivdoric
Member
TR4 is great once on you know everything. Replaying it, it is probably one of the best.
However, it's absolutely crazy hard the first time due to the interconnected levels nature.
You can miss a key or lever somewhere 3-4 levels back and will get stuck forever, not knowing what the fuck you're supposed to do or find.
It's a crazy maze to play. I don't know a single person who finished that game without a walkthrough and those who did reported running around in circle for hours and hours.
I'm up for patience and observation but this one was very difficult as a kid, near torture level.
TR3 was fucking frustrating as well but for other reasons lol.
God, i remember this london metro level, this is probably one of the worst level ever released.
I finished all of them with pistol only + 0 medikit and TR3 was the tougher challenge in that regard.
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Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
Finally got to install it, not a bad mod at all
