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[Man God]

It's because Nintendo knows that a decent amount of its audience can't buy M rated games, a fairly unique position especially compared to the other companies bringing over niche RPGs. The only other company left that cares about ratings is Natsume. XSEED and ATLUS's stock and trade are M rated titled seemingly. NISA and AKSYS don't shy away either.

It's some bean counter over here who calculates the sales lost from outrage posters versus those lost when an otherwise T game gets moved up to M for ridiculous reasons.

 

[ShinRPGamer]

My understanding is there's two DLC Hot Springs packs (one with the girls & one with the guys. Funny enough, the guys is twice the price as the girls) where you get new costumes for said gender then a "special TV program" where you watch said characters in said costumes talk about the hot springs they're in.

It's not even towels, just swimsuits. Men, Women.

So once again, swimsuits = too lewd for Nintendo. I do agree I'd be more annoyed at gameplay being removed/altered, but it's still disappointing for what is going to be a rather niche game. Granted, considering this is Nintendo & how they want to keep their reputation as family friendly as possible at times if they're directly involved with the development (I totally understand & side with them with Xenoblade X, though question Fatal Frame).

I don't know, I've pretty much voiced all that I can with previous stuff like Bravely Default, Fatal Frame, Xenoblade X, Criminal Girls, etc.

You think the removal of the bust slider was a good thing? Explain...

 

[skLaFarebear]

Stopped caring about TMS after it's first trailer tbh. The crushing disappointment (which I've admittedly gotten over) of that being the FE x SMT trailer after two years of nothing, plus everything I've seen afterwards from trailers/directs being pretty boring. SMT4:A being announced also for a 2016 Summer release was pretty much the nail in the coffin for me. I'd much rather throw my time and money in the Atlus game that actually looks cool and it being a sequel of a game I really like helps too.

 

[ShinRPGamer]

Stopped caring about TMS after it's first trailer. The crushing disappointment (which I've admittedly gotten over) of that being the FE x SMT trailer after two years of nothing, plus everything I've seen afterwards from trailers/directs being pretty boring. SMT4:A being announced also for a 2016 Summer release was pretty much the nail in the coffin for me. I'd much rather throw my time and money in the thing that actually looks cool and it being a sequel of a game I really like helps too.

I have to agree with you. I was initially excited for the game even after the first trailer but now I just can't really get myself excited for the game even discounting the localization bollocks. I'm better off just spending 65 bucks on SMT: A

 

[Zonic]

I always assume Nintendo's nightmare PR scenario is something getting traction on FOX News.

Exactly. "YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT THIS 13-YEAR-OLD WEARS IN THIS NINTENDO GAME!!"

People need to understand a company's reputation is at risk & they can be under the fire of said people who don't want said things in games, even if they weren't going to get it in the first place.

Someone like Xseed doesn't have that big of an issue since they're more niche & that's their market, plus they're not as well known compared to bigger companies like Nintendo or Square-Enix.

You think the removal of the bust slider was a good thing? Explain...

Oh, I forgot about that. That specifically, I find puzzling & question why it was removed considering female players might want to try & replicate themselves. I was more referring to removing the bikini for Lin, the 13-year-old.

 

[Man God]

I probably would have liked a pitch black demonic Fire Emblem game but Idol Emblem also sounds pretty good to me.

They missed a hell of an opportunity by not branding it Persona x Fire Emblem in the beginning.

 

[ShinRPGamer]

Oh, I forgot about that. That specifically, I find puzzling & question why it was removed considering female players might want to try & replicate themselves. I was more referring to removing the bikini for Lin, the 13-year-old.

Lin's alterations were a good thing. Better too look like a nudist beach reject than 13 year old jail bait.

The removal of the Bust slider is the worst instance of censorship from them since the stream of localization edits started. Who the hell is going to get mad at you having a bust slider? It's straight up baffling.

On a side note, TIL that the Fundoshi outfits were also altered in the western release for Xenoblade X.

 

[BassForever]

think that the best thing for Nintendo to do, going forward, is to make it a point that game content is identical across all regions. If a bust slider is in the Japanese release, you keep it in the western versions. If NoA wants hot springs to be excised, you axe it in the Japanese version as well. That way you don't have you the problems that have plagued recent releases and maybe Treehouse can regain some of the respect it deserves.

This will never happen, the moment you localize a game you are inherently changing things from the Japanese version. If people want the Japanese version of the game as is they need to learn Japanese and buy their version of the game. Localization SHOULD rationalize things to work best in that market, if we had to make games that were 100% identical across all regions you couldn't release 95% of games because what is culturally acceptable varies so much around the world. If a game is banned in Australia should it be recalled worldwide? Should Fallout 3 have been recalled because the Japanese version removed the ability to detonate the nuke since Japanese localizers felt it would be in poor taste to lets Japanese citizens have an option to nuke themselves. Should the last of us be recalled since the European version doesn't have exploding heads in multiplayer?

The treehouse will never "regain the respect it deserves" since it never had respect from these people anyways nor should they even try since those people will never be happy.

Lin's alterations were a good thing. Better too look like a nudist beach reject than 13 year old jail bait.

The removal of the Bust slider is the worst instance of censorship from them since the stream of localization edits started. Who the hell is going to get mad at you having a bust slider? It's straight up baffling.

On a side note, TIL that the Fundoshi outfits were also altered in the western release for Xenoblade X.

Because with the bust slider you could make your main character a 13 year old girl main character which would completely defeat the point of censoring Lyn. There options were make it so the main character could never wear the sexy swim suits or remove the boob slider forcing female avatars to be a certain age.

 

[BatDan]

I've stopped taking people crying about localization seriously when I saw a bunch of them say that "localization" should just be word-for-word translation and they shouldn't spice it up or try to make it interesting.

Basically, morons.

 

[Grexeno]

I think you mean weebs.

 

[Seda]

Did u know

In the Japanese version of Link's Awakening, you can fish up a swimsuit top. In the NA version you fish up a necklace.

Also, changes relating to stuff like hot spring DLC or whatever it is, I honestly can't bring myself to care.

 

[Jarate]

there's nothing I hate worse then localizations of japanese games where they keep the "OH LOOK IT'S MARIE-CHAN"

PEOPLE WHO SPEAK ENGLISH DO NOT NEED HONORIFICS. OUR LANGUAGE IS SET UP IN A WAY WHERE WE CAN REALIZE THINGS FROM THE TEXT.

it basically made Persona 4 unplayable to me. And dont give me that bullshit of "it takes place in japan" no, fuck you, this is still a fucking translation

 

[Zonic]

Jarate-kun is really mad, isn't he, Seda-san?

 

[Man God]

I remember when the big thing was "resubbing SNES classics to fit the original authorial intent" wave that occurred about a decade ago. I played the FF VI one for a laugh. How something can be so incomprehensible and dry and boring at the same time I'll never know. People who think that direct translation is the best just do not understand the first thing about languages. The thousands of quirks and idioms that just do not directly translate. Different humor standards. Ingrained cultural references that you'd need a footnote to even begin to explain to people outside of their country.

Hell ever hear a Spanish person complain when they get a dub/sub version from Mexico or vice versa? Same damn language yet a million miles apart in some ways.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Baka!

 

[Jarate]

there's not a lot of things on this earth that piss me off, but this one is one of the things that frustrates me to no end. I hate it, I hate everything about it. I even have a hard time with it during subs, I can see why they do it, but im reading a subtitle because I don't understand japanese you nitwits.

 

[Man God]

Did u know

In the Japanese version of Link's Awakening, you can fish up a swimsuit top. In the NA version you fish up a necklace.

Also, changes relating to stuff like hot spring DLC or whatever it is, I honestly can't bring myself to care.

Did U know

The German localization of Link's Awakening was done by someone who literally did not give a fuck? Famous for other interesting choices in that era of SNES/GB games.

 

[BatDan]

Did u know

In the Japanese version of Link's Awakening, you can fish up a swimsuit top. In the NA version you fish up a necklace.

Also, changes relating to stuff like hot spring DLC or whatever it is, I honestly can't bring myself to care.

Same.
I'm sick of the hot spring trope in Japanese media anyway. It wouldn't be bad if it was just a normal trip, but soooo many series have to always make it perverted. I have to imagine TMS #FE would be similar.

Also, people seriously need to read Clyde Manelin's site about the importance of localization and ways you can end up with a good or bad one.

 

[Jarate]

Ive always wanted to visit a hot springs. I betcha it feels really nice

 

[Seda]

there's nothing I hate worse then localizations of japanese games where they keep the "OH LOOK IT'S MARIE-CHAN"

PEOPLE WHO SPEAK ENGLISH DO NOT NEED HONORIFICS. OUR LANGUAGE IS SET UP IN A WAY WHERE WE CAN REALIZE THINGS FROM THE TEXT.

it basically made Persona 4 unplayable to me. And dont give me that bullshit of "it takes place in japan" no, fuck you, this is still a fucking translation

Ive noticed Japanese language in general refer to the other person's name in conversational dialogue much more often than in English. What I mean is, in English you usually don't say another person's name when talking to them unless you are trying to get their attention. And you especially don't refer to your siblings as "brother" and such.

Also, more Toonami related. When Leorio kept asking to be called "Mr. Leorio", what was the Japanese equivalent dialogue that stemmed from?

 

[BassForever]

Same.
I'm sick of the hot spring trope in Japanese media anyway. It wouldn't be bad if it was just a normal trip, but soooo many series have to always make it perverted. I have to imagine TMS #FE would be similar.

Also, people seriously need to read Clyde Manelin's site about the importance of localization and ways you can end up with a good or bad one.

It's especially dumb since the dlc (just looked it up) was just 4 special scenes there was no real gameplay at all and since the game isn't dubbed you literally could have just watched the scenes online with fan subs and saved the $2-3 dollars you'd have paid to buy the dlc anyways.

Ive noticed Japanese language in general refer to the other person's name in conversational dialogue much more often than in English. What I mean is, in English you usually don't say another person's name when talking to them unless you are trying to get their attention. And you especially don't refer to your siblings as "brother" and such.

Also, more Toonami related. When Leorio kept asking to me called "Mr. Leorio", what was the Japanese equivalent dialogue that stemmed from?

That's Leorio-SAN to you

Spoiler

yes that's why it was Mr Leorio in the US version

 

[Moaradin]

Ive noticed Japanese language in general refer to the other person's name in conversational dialogue much more often than in English. What I mean is, in English you usually don't say another person's name when talking to them unless you are trying to get their attention. And you especially don't refer to your siblings as "brother" and such.

Also, more Toonami related. When Leorio kept asking to me called "Mr. Leorio", what was the Japanese equivalent dialogue that stemmed from?

"That's Leorio-san to you"

 

[BatDan]

Ive noticed Japanese language in general refer to the other person's name in conversational dialogue much more often than in English. What I mean is, in English you usually don't say another person's name when talking to them unless you are trying to get their attention. And you especially don't refer to your siblings as "brother" and such.

Also, more Toonami related. When Leorio kept asking to me called "Mr. Leorio", what was the Japanese equivalent dialogue that stemmed from?

"That's Leorio-SAN to you"

There's a One Piece character muuuuuuch later on that does a similar thing.

EDIT: Son of a...

It's especially dumb since the dlc (just looked it up) was just 4 special scenes there was no real gameplay at all and since the game isn't dubbed you literally could have just watched the scenes online with fan subs and saved the $2-3 dollars you'd have paid to buy the dlc anyways.

Well that sounds pointless.
I could understand the complaints if there was a special bonus boss that could only be fought here. But even then they would probably add the boss to the main game or to a separate DLC package. I know some localizations did that.

 

[Seda]

"That's Leorio-san to you"

Yep. Sensible.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Ive noticed Japanese language in general refer to the other person's name in conversational dialogue much more often than in English. What I mean is, in English you usually don't say another person's name when talking to them unless you are trying to get their attention. And you especially don't refer to your siblings as "brother" and such.

Also, more Toonami related. When Leorio kept asking to me called "Mr. Leorio", what was the Japanese equivalent dialogue that stemmed from?

It's also cuz Leorio is a little shit lol

 

[Jarate]

wait, did they remove something from #FE?

I keep a media lockout nowadays on every game im somewhat interested in since I don't like to be spoiled on stuff

 

[Zonic]

wait, did they remove something from #FE?

I keep a media lockout nowadays on every game im somewhat interested in since I don't like to be spoiled on stuff

Yeah, the Japanese text, now it's been replaced with filthy ENGLISH.

................also maybe some bikini & swimsuit costumes for all the characters.

 

[ShinRPGamer]

This will never happen, the moment you localize a game you are inherently changing things from the Japanese version. If people want the Japanese version of the game as is they need to learn Japanese and buy their version of the game. Localization SHOULD rationalize things to work best in that market, if we had to make games that were 100% identical across all regions you couldn't release 95% of games because what is culturally acceptable varies so much around the world. If a game is banned in Australia should it be recalled worldwide? Should Fallout 3 have been recalled because the Japanese version removed the ability to detonate the nuke since Japanese localizes felt it would be in poor taste to lets Japanese citizens have an option to nuke themselves. Should the last of us be recalled since the European version doesn't have exploding heads in multiplayer?

The treehouse will never "regain the respect it deserves" since it never had respect from these people anyways nor should they even try since those people will never be happy.

The first part of your argument seems to be mostly relating to dialogue. I wasn't talking about dialogue when I made that statement, I'm referring to content within the game specifically which you bring up as your second point. While you have a point with the examples you mentioned, the fact is that some of the stuff Nintendo did remove like the bust slider and the swimsuits in Fates and TMS are not only things prevalent in video games but in the case of the latter, it is a normal sight to see in real life even by youth.

Basically my point is that if you're a developer making a game that you know is going to be released in other parts of the world, you should at least attempt to make it so that a game can come out internationally with little to no edits to the game outside of the dialogue. And given that scale of the edits in Nintendo titles like Fates and X, that should be a very doable task.

As for Treehouse, well I do know people who once liked Treehouse that are now not a fan of them due to the changes in recent games. Maybe some people's perception will reverse if we go through a streak of Treehouse localizations that do not censor game content.

Because with the bust slider you could make your main character a 13 year old girl main character which would completely defeat the point of censoring Lyn. There options were make it so the main character could never wear the sexy swim suits or remove the boob slider forcing female avatars to be a certain age.

Here's the thing: There are women with small or big chests that wanted to use the bust slider to recreate themselves in the game. In fact, those groups of women were the ones most pissed off by its removal. If Nintendo was so concerned about that, why not just reduce the bust slider so that 25% in the Japanese version is 0% in the western releases? That would have been a good compromise IMO. Women could still use it to better recreate themselves and NoA wouldn't have to worry about people recreating Lin.

 

[Mizerman]

Baka!

Nani?!

 

[Cornbread78]

I think you mean weebs.

I don't think "weebs" is a ToonamiGAF approved word. You all watch dubbed shit so it just doesn't work, lol.

 

[Jarate]

Is there anyone here who uses a bust slider and doesn't max that shit out?

I don't think "weebs" is a ToonamiGAF approved word. You all watch dubbed shit so it just doesn't work, lol.

It's not my fault japanese goku sounds like english frieza

 

[B-Dubs]

It's also cuz Leorio is a little shit lol

Leorio is the best, don't you shit talk him!

 

[Schadenfreude]

Is there anyone here who uses a bust slider and doesn't max that shit out?

But then how can i have humorous scenes where a well endowed rival character makes fun of the flat chested heroine for being flat chested?

 

[Man God]

I don't think "weebs" is a ToonamiGAF approved word. You all watch dubbed shit so it just doesn't work, lol.

 

[Zonic]

But then how can i have humorous scenes where a well endowed rival character makes fun of the flat chested heroine for being flat chested?

I'd make a Slayers reference if I actually saw Slayers.

 

[Jarate]

it's like the booty slider in a game, You know im gonna max out the ass

 

[Schadenfreude]

Leorio is the best, don't you shit talk him!

No one loves that man more than I, trust me, but he's a little shit lol

 

[Seda]

I guess my stance on stuff like this is:

If the localization is changing stuff I don't care about anyway, then I don't care. I'm not one to think that the game HAS TO BE unchanged from the Japanese version. I can think it's weird, I can disagree with the change, I can think it's unnecessary, I can think it's baffling, but I still don't really care - especially when it's not even close to being an integral part of the the game.

I know some people who might argue "well, it's about principle!". I dunno, I guess this is where I can be pretty ... selfish. I know some people love fanservice stuff. To some, hot spring stuff may be the reason to buy the game. I'm not those people though, and whether or not I enjoy the game is not influenced by those factors. I might adore the game, I might hate it, but the 'censorship' would have no bearing on that. It's not going to ruin a game I love, it wouldn't have made the game better if it was included. So, ultimately, when it comes to my own enjoyment, it doesn't matter. I'm not saying I'm pro censoring, I'm just not crusading against it. I'm not going to stand on a soapbox and say what I think Nintendo /should/ do. Even though I know the censorship might detract from other's enjoyment of the game, I can only speak for and about myself.

---

This is going off topic a bit, but talk about hot springs and honorifics kinda relate to a game I'm playing for review. It's Ray Gigant, a PSVita dungeon crawler with some visual novel elements. Despite being anime and on Vita, it has virtually no fanservice.

There was scene early on in the game where the cast goes to a hotspring inn. Commence eyerolls. While the game doesn't have actually animated cutscenes, I fully expected an artwork of the female cast in the spring because Japan.

Instead, the game used a more innocuous art of a pillow fight. I was, in a sense, pleasantly surprised that it subverted my expectations even slightly.

The other thing is the game uses honorifics, but only occasionally. Doesn't really bother me. I'm rambling now.

 

[Mizerman]

I don't think "weebs" is a ToonamiGAF approved word. You all watch dubbed shit so it just doesn't work, lol.

Hey, I don't got time to decode all of that moon language. So dubbed is the next best thing.

 

[Jarate]

how do you get a sexy ass game review job. Is shitposting part of the job, because im real good at that

 

[Seda]

how do you get a sexy ass game review job. Is shitposting part of the job, because im real good at that

Hobby, not a job.

 

[Cornbread78]

We are blessed to have Yui in our lives.

It's not my fault japanese goku sounds like english frieza

Lol.

Hey, I don't got time to decode all of that moon language. So dubbed is the next best thing.

Who knows, even though I have to read the subs the Japanese VAS are so much more expressive with the voices.. I learned to deal, lol.

 

[Schadenfreude]

man, you get to play ray gigant early? Consider me jealous, Seda. Do they have any openings at whatever site you're on?

 

[Jarate]

Hobby, not a job.

oh, so now you're telling me I have to write well. Well, I'll have you know, I made a thread on gaming that broke down why Tecmo Superbowl for the NES was a competitive masterpiece that got 0 replies

Spoiler

I wish I wasnt a perfectionist with all of my work. I do a lot of stuff that im horrified of ever putting online because I have a huge fear of becoming Andrew Dobson

 

[Doctor Decimate]

Basically my point is that if you're a developer making a game that you know is going to be released in other parts of the world, you should at least attempt to make it so that a game can come out internationally with little to no edits to the game outside of the dialogue. And given that scale of the edits in Nintendo titles like Fates and X, that should be a very doable task.

Here's the thing, though. If we're gonna talk about maintaining the original artistic intent or whatever, doesn't asking developers to tailor their vision to suit all markets also interfere with artistic intent? The only difference is when in the process it happens. Currently, Fallout 3 gets the nuke option taken out after the game is made. But in what you propose, they just tell the guys in charge of that quest that they're not allowed to have that nuke option during development because of Japan. I don't see how that's any better other than you maybe don't find out about it as easily.

And that's not even getting into how many factors an internationally released game would have to consider to begin with.

 

[B-Dubs]

Here's the thing, though. If we're gonna talk about maintaining the original artistic intent or whatever, doesn't asking developers to tailor their vision to suit all markets also interfere with artistic intent? The only difference is when in the process it happens. Currently, Fallout 3 gets the nuke option taken out after the game is made. But in what you propose, they just tell the guys in charge of that quest that they're not allowed to have that nuke option during development because of Japan.

And that's not even getting into how many factors an internationally released game would have to consider to begin with.

There's also the fact that the sort of stuff we're talking about may have only been put in because the Japanese audience wanted it and the devs may not have. Talking about artistic intent in games, and TV and movies, is far more complicated than most people realize.

 

[Crocodile]

*Looks around*

This is the Toonami thread right? LMAO at a discussion apparently aimed at hypothetical localization?

If I'm to chime in, I'll say that in the vast majority of circumstances I'm a person who is slow to anger and extreme opinions on subjects I deem undeserving of extreme opinions put me off. Very few subjects that get discussed on Gaming Side are worth getting particularly upset about one way or the other and the fact that threads on certain subjects always end up being like 135341234132 posts long with the "usual suspects" on both sides either turning red or acting holier than thou or whatever often is off-putting - even in the circumstances where I feel compelled to reply (even when my posts are verbose, they are very rarely angry). I have no real qualms altering material that I think is legitimately offensive or I can reasonably put myself in someone else's shoes and see how that could be legitimately offensive to them.

I think my only concern is that the list of "offensive" or "problematic" things seems to be getting longer and longer everyday. In part that's an actively good thing as it generally means those who have often lacked a voice are getting better represented and are now better able to relay the complaints they've always had. Often times though I feel it ends up with a lot of people becoming oversensitive? I have to be careful when I say this because unfortunately a lot of people like to say the sort to dismiss legitimate complaints people have. "Political correctness" for example is a term, among others, that has lost value because so many people like to throw it out to critique any progressive sentiment rather than specifically any progressive sentiment that's poorly thought out or actually dumb.

To that end, I rarely care about the removal or change of a "problematic" element from a game moving across oceans but I'm often left wondering "man life must be hard for you" for those who get really bothered by some of those elements. Sometimes its obvious - "this shit is creepy, remove, the end". Nowadays though, everything is creepy (a little hyperbole but not much) When I see people actively grateful the Bravo Bikinis (and that dude's speedo) were removed/edited from BD I think to myself "man life must be hard for you". When people were swearing up and down they wouldn't buy Fates because they thought the rubbing mini-game was "disgusting" I thought to myself, "man life must be hard for you". I don't care if some singer's outfits in #FEMS get changed but considering the outfits pop musicians typically wear, if something like that rustled your jimmies I can only think to myself "man life must be hard for you".

On the flipside, when I see people upset about Lyn's edited outfit I think to myself "man life must be hard for you". (The issue could have been avoided if Japan stopped trying to cram kid characters into every narrative but I guess that's a separate issue) Or people who start twitter harassment campaigns about any localization change I think "man life must be though for you" (or more likely "man your parents failed in raising you right").

In summary I rarely feel bothered by most pieces of media (unless they actually cross a line) or localization changes (unless I think the logic for change is really faulty). I'm more likely to be bothered by people who either find everything creepy or go off the deep end for any localization change and start raging out of control. I just want to yell "chill the fuck out!" to everyone all the time

Does that make sense?

 

[Seda]

I just want to yell "chill the fuck out!" to everyone all the time

yeah basically


EDIT


I gotta say, staying actively away from the Gaming Side has genuinely improved my mood overall, and not insignificantly. There's a part of me wondering if I'll return to checking it even after finishing up with school.

 

[unknownstranger]

there's nothing I hate worse then localizations of japanese games where they keep the "OH LOOK IT'S MARIE-CHAN"

PEOPLE WHO SPEAK ENGLISH DO NOT NEED HONORIFICS. OUR LANGUAGE IS SET UP IN A WAY WHERE WE CAN REALIZE THINGS FROM THE TEXT.

it basically made Persona 4 unplayable to me. And dont give me that bullshit of "it takes place in japan" no, fuck you, this is still a fucking translation

I find it amusing watching One Piece subbed when Luffy's going for the final attack and a bunch of different characters say his name with different things on the end.

"Luffy-san!"
"Luffy-dono!"
"Luffy-chin!"
"Luffy-ya!"

Spoiler

Most of these are from different arcs but you get my point.

 

[Regiruler]

I'm trying to remember the last time there was a mature (read: T-rated) Nintendo game that wasn't overshadowed by some kind of localization bollocks. It's depressing how I'm drawing a blank for the most part.

And no Bayonetta 2 doesn't count.

Why doesn't Bayonetta 2 count?