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Toonami |JunJul16| You Thought It Was Dragon Ball Super, But It Was ME, DIO!
- Thread starter Grexeno
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You don't have to torture yourself like that.
Easily in the running for the absolute worst ToonamiGAF post of the year.
Why in the absolute fuck would you destroy any sense of combat design for the entire game?
"Wow, I have boobs"
What
-because the gameplay is broken by design, there are things that can one shot the hardest enemies in the entire game
-because you're going to level up naturally anyways, grinding is not new to rpgs when you're underleveled, nor is level capping
Worst post of toonamigaf for the year is not going to "I grinded in a JRPG where you can beat it way faster if you grind". Breaking the game is hiring max level with blossom dance from the start and going to the hardest area, since Blossom dance with certain classes can kill anything at any level in under 15 seconds.
We call this combat design flaws on the devs part, not on the players part. If you can be a 20 and kill a 40 on the spot and get a level or two, why would you ever fight walls of 20s for leveling? It's easier fights (read: more mindless, if I can hold my own against something twice my level) and less exp.
lazybones18
Banned
no lies detected. the perfect waifu
This reminds me of Lost Dimension (a an Atlus-localized FuRyu-developed SRPG thing), where near the end of the game, there's a sidemission you can complete in one turn, many times over, to get loads of money and EXP. It's not a cheat DLC, it doesn't even seem like it's meant to be be a booster mission or anything, just for some reason it's easily beatable and and can be used for exploitation. If the game it self is going to give me an "I win" button, it's kinda difficult to analyze game design.
The best challenges in games are where you have to utilize everything the game has to offer to succeed: from knowledge of mechanics (ie skill) s to using the best equipment/collectables, and maybe even a tidbit of luck. One reason why I like The Last Remnant so much. Some of those sidequest bosses are TOUGH and there's no way to cheese them (there is no standard EXP). You just have to know how the play the game and create a team to counter them effectively.
Although self-handicaps are fun too. I've played Fire Emblem 7 with so many self-imposed various limiters (only mages, only pre-promotes, etc). Can be pretty fun.
StarSketch
Banned
-sits down to watch sailor moon because she feels like an old lady and wants to feel older by watching anime she watched as a kid-
-can't pick between original sailor moon and Crystal, dub or sub-
Goddamn it.
-can't pick between original sailor moon and Crystal, dub or sub-
Goddamn it.
Yeah, I got the CE of Tokyo Mirage Sessions, and it literally comes with a "skip grinding" dungeon where you get items that level you up every 5 or so battles.
It's kind of hard to justify not using it when I hit a dungeon boss underleveled- if I can easily kill the mobs in the area, why not just level up faster.
And yep, endgame "using what the game has to offer" is my leading argument for KH2FM+ being the best iteration of kingdom hearts. It goes from "easy button masher where if you lose you're just a bit underleveled or out of it" to an actual game with skill on the hidden bosses who will run you into the ground if you don't learn the mechanics.
Then again, critical is easier than proud mode for end game, so KH is kinda janky as an example in many ways.
It's also why I love SMT endgames- most of the time you can finish in the 80s and theres harder bosses than the final one, meaning you can't just level from the ending level of 40 to 50 in most games and break it at 99, and instead are only having a slight edge with 20 levels higher.
Nocturne does this very well with the final boss actually being a cakewalk because you've beaten silly hard challenges to get to him- nothing they could throw at you could be hard, because by that point, you've fully broken the game to it's core with pierce+strongest attack and other such combos.
The new dub is pretty fun I find. Better than what I've seen of crystal, which isn't much. Apparently that gets better as it goes along.
FUCK YOU DEMYX
StarSketch
Banned
Seconded
DANCE WATER DANCE
DANCE WATER DANCE
Since we are talking about JRPGs, I'll throw in my two cents.
My problem with JRPGs is that I have too many in the backlog. About 5-6 years ago when I was collecting a ton of games on the cheap I picked up a lot of JRPGs as well. They were mostly PS1/2 games but there are a fair share of DS and PS3 games as well in my backlog. When I started slowing down on purchasing games I made it a big point to stop buying JRPGs since I hardly finished them.
Heck I still have a bunch of Final Fantasy games to play through. I own all of them in some form but I have only beaten 1, 2, 13 and.... that's it. I've started 4, 7, 8, and 12 but I've never finished them. (Honestly I could make a thread about my experiences with Final Fantasy VIII.) I've finished Dragon Quest 5 but I own 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9. Never touched any of them. I own most of the great Squaresoft games from the PS1 days (Front Mission, Vagrant Story, Xenogears and a few others), only played Xenogears and that is unfinished. I own Secret, Legend, and Sword of Mana but those are unfinished and I've only touched the SNES one. All three Xenosaga games? I have them and I've never touched them. The Golden Sun series? Same thing. I won't even get into my PSP JRPG backlog which is probably the worst of them all.
This gen I have gotten much much better with not buying JRPGs but that still hasn't stopped me from picking up games like Rodea, Fire Emblem, TMS#FE, and Bravely Default. I've finished Awakening but FE: Fates is currently a work in progress. Now that school is done I would like to get more knocked out but it is hard when I already have other games I love playing right now. I love playing this genre but these games are LOOOOOONG
That's my two cents on JRPGs.
My problem with JRPGs is that I have too many in the backlog. About 5-6 years ago when I was collecting a ton of games on the cheap I picked up a lot of JRPGs as well. They were mostly PS1/2 games but there are a fair share of DS and PS3 games as well in my backlog. When I started slowing down on purchasing games I made it a big point to stop buying JRPGs since I hardly finished them.
Heck I still have a bunch of Final Fantasy games to play through. I own all of them in some form but I have only beaten 1, 2, 13 and.... that's it. I've started 4, 7, 8, and 12 but I've never finished them. (Honestly I could make a thread about my experiences with Final Fantasy VIII.) I've finished Dragon Quest 5 but I own 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9. Never touched any of them. I own most of the great Squaresoft games from the PS1 days (Front Mission, Vagrant Story, Xenogears and a few others), only played Xenogears and that is unfinished. I own Secret, Legend, and Sword of Mana but those are unfinished and I've only touched the SNES one. All three Xenosaga games? I have them and I've never touched them. The Golden Sun series? Same thing. I won't even get into my PSP JRPG backlog which is probably the worst of them all.
This gen I have gotten much much better with not buying JRPGs but that still hasn't stopped me from picking up games like Rodea, Fire Emblem, TMS#FE, and Bravely Default. I've finished Awakening but FE: Fates is currently a work in progress. Now that school is done I would like to get more knocked out but it is hard when I already have other games I love playing right now. I love playing this genre but these games are LOOOOOONG
That's my two cents on JRPGs.
I found KH2 incredibly disappointing until I played Final Mix, which does bring the good boss wise.
KH1 on hard is a very fun game for the most part besides the shitty camera and lame platforming. KH2 was a cakewalk before final mix, all that form swapping nonsense made it too easy, all of the bosses were mindless wait to counter, counter, repeat affairs.
KH1 on hard is a very fun game for the most part besides the shitty camera and lame platforming. KH2 was a cakewalk before final mix, all that form swapping nonsense made it too easy, all of the bosses were mindless wait to counter, counter, repeat affairs.
StarSketch
Banned
Well I guess if I want the "7 year old StarSketch" experience, I should go with 199-whatever Sailor Moon, dubbed.
I played it as a kid and loved it as a mashy game, then I went back and played FM as a 12 year old (my first import) and realized the main game isn't really 10/10, but FM is extremely satisfying and has so much content to love that it justifies the easy game beforehand.
BBS is boring and is kind of jank. I did a level 1 critical run as Ventus and I think the combat designs issues show heavily when doing such a run.
I had that journey myself around 2008 or so with a friend. We both...enjoyed the crap out of it!
Nah I've never finished it. I remember getting to the desert area about 10 hours in or so and that was it. I've heard that the ending is considered unfinished though.
You're deliberately devolving the experience to, at best, a button mashing A to B simulator. How is that, in any way, shape, or form, enjoyable?
You cripple both the exploration and the story bosses, the only major redemptions for the game, and it's already easy as is. Why on earth would you exacerbate the problem exponentially?
Natural level progression is a bullshit argument that's shifting blame to the game's drowning sea of sidequests. You can take paths that optimize your experience for each level, and I'm actually disappointed when I miss something and I'm forced to go back to it, as there's nothing more to do than press A repeatedly.
I'm trying to explain my view on why my choice of grinding according to their own design is perfectly valid - and yes, it is by their own design, as the exp multiplier is insane at such level gaps. However, XCX has more to it than just story bosses and exploration. Story bosses are such a small fraction of the game that they aren't really worth mentioning beyond an offhand note. Exploration is still fun regardless, but the combat in XCX is broken and certain methods are 10x more efficient and effective at killing everything.
It's the FE Awakening on normal issue- I don't really fault some people for finding the game extremely easy as they come to the natural conclusion less units on the map causes leveling to happen more which makes the game easier, and then take it to the extreme and just use Avatar+Chrom and solo the entire game after a few missions. This is a fault of the game designers for not creating incentives to not do this or walls to stop it, and as a result, leads many people to naturally come to these conclusions and keep with these tactics. You're overestimating people on their first playthrough going out of their way to break a game compared to them simply realizing method A works better than method B, and they want to beat the game instead of lose to it, so they simply go with the optimal method.
They still didn't fix this issue by the next game. Games on normal are supposed to be balanced, but this method still works relatively well in conquest mode.
edit: I'm confused why you're worked up over me playing a game in a certain way, it seems like it doesn't affect you, and that it's still a way to play it within the original game (not breaking the games code or anything), so I don't think it should be something where I need to defend a point.
There's a couple of games I take a perverse pleasure in powerleveling in.
One is FFTA. Another is FF VIII.
I may try Soul's method for this game when I play it.
The most fun part in Xenoblade Chronicles is when the post game stuff finally because manageable by a party about 10 levels lower than the enemies you fight. Each encounter becomes a boss battle.
One is FFTA. Another is FF VIII.
I may try Soul's method for this game when I play it.
The most fun part in Xenoblade Chronicles is when the post game stuff finally because manageable by a party about 10 levels lower than the enemies you fight. Each encounter becomes a boss battle.
Is it truly that bad
or it's just so easy to break
I remember nothing of what I played as a kid besides a rental car with gas limits.
More that it's just fun to break. Also it involves playing quite a bit of Triple Triad so that's a plus.
It's a game that is fun to break. You can get the final weapons before the end of disc 1. You can get 9999 hp and max stats without leveling up once. Granted you need to put work in to do these things, but they are possible. Enemies also level up with you so it is actually easier to beat the game at min level than it is at max level, well, depending on what you do to min/max your stats. You can also apply status effects to your weapons that will effect almost every enemy in the game.
Most RPGs are actually fun to break, but few are on the level of FF VIII. Bend might be a more appropriate term though considering the game was designed with this in mind. You are not using glitches to do any of this, it's all in game mechanics working with each other. A lot of it involves playing a children's card game for ten hours.
My abbreviated experience of FF VIII
First playthrough- Corrupt save file shortly after disc 1.
Second Playthrough- Slightly farther than my first playthrough, lost the memory card.
Third Playthrough- Made it to the start of disc 4, but the first battle was unwinnable since
I was told on forums that I've been playing the game wrong since I didn't junction right or something like that.
That was two years ago, and I've sworn off the game for a while. I do want to actually finish it one of these years but it will require a brand new playthrough.
First playthrough- Corrupt save file shortly after disc 1.
Second Playthrough- Slightly farther than my first playthrough, lost the memory card.
Third Playthrough- Made it to the start of disc 4, but the first battle was unwinnable since
I would kill Riona before the enemy.
That was two years ago, and I've sworn off the game for a while. I do want to actually finish it one of these years but it will require a brand new playthrough.
Hellwarden
Member
I remember almost nothing about Final Fantasy VIII.
I remember virtually nothing about the story, other than it was a love story. I remember Squall was annoying. There was a cowboy party member. I remember the combat system being pretty bland.
That's all I remember.
Oh, and cards.
I remember virtually nothing about the story, other than it was a love story. I remember Squall was annoying. There was a cowboy party member. I remember the combat system being pretty bland.
That's all I remember.
Oh, and cards.
I don't recall getting far in FF8. Doesn't help my copy is kind of glitched since I think Triple Triad doesn't load if I try to play a game, & this is AFTER returning an used copy of FF9 which refused to load random battles in one area on the first disc.
....meanwhile on FF7, I almost made it to the final boss but screw the "drop the ONE save point you get where ever but that's it" crap, so I pretty much made it hard to go back out to get more items or be more prepared.
....meanwhile on FF7, I almost made it to the final boss but screw the "drop the ONE save point you get where ever but that's it" crap, so I pretty much made it hard to go back out to get more items or be more prepared.
BassForever
Member
Triple triad is a fantastic card game with an awful jrpg around it
ShinRPGamer
Member
Triple Triad is basically the thing I remember really enjoying about FF8. Everything else about the game was mostly average.
Triple Triad was good until you got bullshit rule sets like fucking god damned random.
And this is why I have the grind-free dlc <3
Playing FFXI and nothing else really for 15 days was soul draining so really any rpg of any form is 10/10 for me atm
I'm still baffled as to why you want to make the game worse. You're using turbo speed on your skell just to reach the destination, which is... what? A grindy endgame for weeb outfits?
Imperial Bishop
Banned
There's a crazy thunderstorm going on in my town.
50/50 chance my power might get knocked out like BatDan. :__:
50/50 chance my power might get knocked out like BatDan. :__:
Figures. One of the best line ups in a while and nature knocks out everyone's power!
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