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[BassForever]

If I had to take a guess perhaps as OP gets deeper and deeper into a serious story arc that assumes you've watched the past canon serious arcs when it comes to robin (and somewhat usopp) in particular those people who didn't watch/read the 200 episodes toonami skipped are finding themselves lost/confused and are giving up. Davy back despite being really goofy was easy for a first time watcher to pick up and enjoy without any prior knowledge.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Can we not post spoiler scenes from OP episodes that haven't aired on Toonami?

I thought it was from a movie.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

Not enough garbage pacing or laughable villain plans to hold attention

 

[Imperial Bishop]

Yet they can sit through Shippuden, which throws the casual viewer into a sudden timeskip after the Chuunin Exams in the original show.

 

[bigkrev]

Nice bounce-back for Dandy and Bleach following a UFC week.

That One Piece number is really concerning- it would be one thing if new show Blue Exorcist beat it, but Soul Eater also beat it. If this continues, it's going to be hard to justify having Blue Exorcist and Black Lagoon on after it, and they bump it back in the night.

 

[bigkrev]

If I had to take a guess perhaps as OP gets deeper and deeper into a serious story arc that assumes you've watched the past canon serious arcs when it comes to robin (and somewhat usopp) in particular those people who didn't watch/read the 200 episodes toonami skipped are finding themselves lost/confused and are giving up. Davy back despite being really goofy was easy for a first time watcher to pick up and enjoy without any prior knowledge.

There are people who couldn't bring themselves to watch 50 episodes of the best TV show of all time, Breaking Bad, before the final season. And we expect people to watch hundreds of episodes of One Piece?

 

[BassForever]

Nice bounce-back for Dandy and Bleach following a UFC week.

That One Piece number is really concerning- it would be one thing if new show Blue Exorcist beat it, but Soul Eater also beat it. If this continues, it's going to be hard to justify having Blue Exorcist and Black Lagoon on after it, and they bump it back in the night.

To be fair Soul Eater barely beat it, though it may warrant switching with Blue Exorcist for the time being if only to lessen the drop from shippuden. I somehow doubt 1pm magically became too late for people. They probably won't move OP unless it continues to dip like that during the summer when ratings are generally the highest

 

[B-Dubs]

11:30PM Space Dandy 0.9 HH, 1.211 million viewers (tvmediainsights.com)
12:00AM Bleach 0.8 HH, 1.136 million viewers
12:30AM Naruto: Shippuden 0.8 HH, 1.119 million viewers
1:00AM One Piece 0.6 HH, 791,000 viewers
1:30AM Blue Exorcist 0.6 HH, 838,000 viewers
2:00AM Soul Eater 0.6 HH, 799,000 viewers
2:30AM Naruto 0.6 HH, 722,000 viewers (tvmediainsights.com)
3:00AM Ghost in the Shell 0.5 HH, 607,000 viewers
3:30AM Fullmetal: Brotherhood 0.4 HH, 537,000 viewers
4:00AM Samurai Jack 0.4 HH, 572,000 viewers
4:30AM IGPX: Immortal Grand Prix 0.4 HH, 585,000 viewers
5:00AM Star Wars: Clone Wars 0.5 HH, 610,000 viewers
5:30AM Inuyasha 0.5 HH, 576,000 viewers

One Piece wow beaten by both Blue Exorcist and Soul Eater

They've gotta be kidding me with that shit. The most "wtf" reveal of the night and that many people tune out? Then more tune in for what has so far been the most by-the-numbers show on the block? I guess no one gives a shit unless there's lots of cool looking fighting going on.

 

[BatDan]

*sees One Piece ratings* Fuck you America.

One Piece should have been huge. It should have been the next DBZ (only even bigger since it's longer than Dragon Ball). But Toei and 4Kids fucked it up! They completely fucked it up!

 

[Beelzeboss]

Yet they can sit through Shippuden, which throws the casual viewer into a sudden timeskip after the Chuunin Exams in the original show.

I suspect a lot of the people watching are familiar with the show from when it was popular on old Toonami and are already caught up.

I always had a problem with how much they skipped in One Piece when it started. I don't think we ever got Skypiea on TV and it's one of the bigger arcs of One Piece.

People just didn't have enough time to catch up and care and are tuning out.

 

[MetatronM]

Nice bounce-back for Dandy and Bleach following a UFC week.

That One Piece number is really concerning- it would be one thing if new show Blue Exorcist beat it, but Soul Eater also beat it. If this continues, it's going to be hard to justify having Blue Exorcist and Black Lagoon on after it, and they bump it back in the night.

Not really concerned about Soul Eater beating it. That's a 1% difference, which is basically statistical noise.

The bigger concern is the BIG drop from Shippuden. That's like a 30% drop in viewership from one show to the net. Not sure what the hell's going on there, especially since One Piece had been strong until just like 2 or 3 weeks ago.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

*sees One Piece ratings* Fuck you America.

One Piece should have been huge. It should have been the next DBZ (only even bigger since it's longer than Dragon Ball). But Toei and 4Kids fucked it up! They completely fucked it up!

There was never even the slightest possibility it would be as big as DBZ without primetime kids programming and although 4kids went way overboard, cuts and edits would have to have been made and I doubt any dub company would really have the incentive to do that for hundreds and hundreds of episodes. OP is also lacking in the toy factor that DBZ had. 4kids cut swaths of episodes just to get to Chopper believing he'd sell a boatload of toys but it didn't happen.

To be fair, nothing has been able to replicate DBZ. Not even DB or GT despite Funi trying their damndest. It was a time and place thing. I doubt any anime will be as big in the US ever again.

 

[slightconfuse]

One piece needs Hawaiian shirts !!

 

[Imperial Bishop]

Iceburg can't believe the ratings.

 

[Moaradin]

Those One Piece ratings hurt my soul.

 

[mightynine]

Not really concerned about Soul Eater beating it. That's a 1% difference, which is basically statistical noise.

The bigger concern is the BIG drop from Shippuden. That's like a 30% drop in viewership from one show to the net. Not sure what the hell's going on there, especially since One Piece had been strong until just like 2 or 3 weeks ago.

Note that I base this comment before I've watched this week's episode of Shippuden, so I don't know if this has changed, but I think the horrible pacing of these episodes is what's killing OP. It's not holding on to the audience it gets from Bleach and that's why OP sees the drop. The fact that shows rebound a bit after OP means the audience is coming back during that half-hour, so I don't think it's a case where people don't want to watch OP, it's that they tuned out during Shippuden and are coming back.

 

[Tamanon]

I think you guys keep forgetting that One Piece is nowhere near as popular in general in the US as the other two of the big three.

Good ratings for Blue Exorcist, I'm looking forward to seeing how it is once it settles into a normal rhythm.

 

[Dr.Palutena]

eh it wasn't as popular, but it certainly was doing a mil or 900k a week before this and now it hasn't these past 2-3 weeks and its weird.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

I think you guys keep forgetting that One Piece is nowhere near as popular in general in the US as the other two of the big three.

I honestly feel like One Piece has been more popular than Bleach for the past few years. There are still One Piece games being localized, the box sets are selling well enough and fast enough to warrant more seasons dubbed. All it was missing was a solid long-lasting TV deal.
Bleach is always going to do well at midnight since it's been there for years.

 

[lazybones18]

poor One Piece

 

[Beelzeboss]

I think another reason One Piece has been slower is because we haven't had a good shonen fight in a while.

It's been a lot of talking with characters people haven't gotten to know.

 

[B-Dubs]

I think another reason One Piece has been slower is because we haven't had a good shonen fight in a while.

It's been a lot of talking with character people haven't gotten to know.

This is honestly what I think it is. Once the fights start the numbers will jump.

 

[Seda]

Note that I base this comment before I've watched this week's episode of Shippuden, so I don't know if this has changed, but I think the horrible pacing of these episodes is what's killing OP. It's not holding on to the audience it gets from Bleach and that's why OP sees the drop. The fact that shows rebound a bit after OP means the audience is coming back during that half-hour, so I don't think it's a case where people don't want to watch OP, it's that they tuned out during Shippuden and are coming back.

That's possible I suppose.

And from what I recall, the pacing in Shippuden doesn't much improve. Especially the first two major arcs. :/

 

[foxuzamaki]

I suspect a lot of the people watching are familiar with the show from when it was popular on old Toonami and are already caught up.

I always had a problem with how much they skipped in One Piece when it started. I don't think we ever got Skypiea on TV and it's one of the bigger arcs of One Piece.

People just didn't have enough time to catch up and care and are tuning out.

They aired skypeia on TV, late in toonami's former years it changed into funimation dubs and went atleast halfway through the skypiea, I remember it like it was yesterday honestly, afterwards some years later I decided to marathon one piece and I made sure to search up where toonami left off in the arc and started from there, skypiea went on to be my least favorite one piece arc.

 

[AdventureMike]

From what I've been told, if anything, it gets worse and worse. I know they want the Bleach/Shippuden power hour but it isn't doing One Piece any favors by making people fall asleep. It's one in the morning for gods sakes, I would not be surprised at all if people are like "Aww yes Space Dandy! Bleach alright! Naruto!!...this is only half over? *yawwwn* Ehhh I've been up awhile".

 

[Moaradin]

This period right here is honestly the worst it gets in Shippuden. Not to say that it doesn't have pacing issues later on, but this is the worst of it.

 

[bigkrev]

From what I've been told, if anything, it gets worse and worse. I know they want the Bleach/Shippuden power hour but it isn't doing One Piece any favors by making people fall asleep. It's one in the morning for gods sakes, I would not be surprised at all if people are like "Aww yes Space Dandy! Bleach alright! Naruto!!...this is only half over? *yawwwn* Ehhh I've been up awhile".

That argument is invalidated by the strong Dandy numbers, and increased viewership for blue Exorcist

 

[LOLDSFAN]

Not enough garbage pacing or laughable villain plans to hold attention

Not enough Satan.

 

[Seda]

This period right here is honestly the worst it gets in Shippuden. Not to say that it doesn't have pacing issues later on, but this is the worst of it.

Hmm, maybe. I remember thinking the

Spoiler

Pain Arc

dragging significantly and that was when I was marathonning it. Perhaps the actual scenes in the show gain a modicum of interesting elements compared to the current happenings I suppose.

 

[ckohler]

Just speculating here but maybe One Piece's art style is just too "kiddy" and "comical" looking, enough so that the average late-night Toonami viewer is turned off by it.

For the record, I'm mostly enjoying the show but it certainly does on the surface look like a show that is meant for a much younger audience.

 

[AdventureMike]

That argument is invalidated by the strong Dandy numbers, and increased viewership for blue Exorcist

Meh I was kinda confusing I think. More or less I was trying to say I think that people watch Dandy and Bleach, get tired by halfway through Shippuden and go to bed. The higher BE numbers might negate that too though.

All in all, I think am with the opinion that it is more Shippuden boring people with lack of action than it is One Piece. Who knows though, this last week was a pretty exciting OP episode compared to some of the latest ones but maybe people have gotten tired of the dilly dallying.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Hmm, maybe. I remember thinking the

Spoiler

Pain Arc

dragging significantly and that was when I was marathonning it. Perhaps the actual scenes in the show gain a modicum of interesting elements compared to the current happenings I suppose.

Spoiler

pain

arc dragged? the pain arc was pretty nicely paced, especially when the villain shows up.

 

[B-Dubs]

Just speculating here but maybe One Piece's art style is just too "kiddy" and "comical" looking, enough so that the average late-night Toonami viewer is turned off by it.

For the record, I'm mostly enjoying the show but it certainly does on the surface look like a show that is meant for a much younger audience.

Which is really pretty sad because it's a much more grown-up show than almost everything else on the block.

 

[mightynine]

Another aspect of Shippuden: this has only aired in the U.S. on Disney XD, right? It's never had this level of exposure before (CN/AS is available in about 18 million more households than Disney XD) so it may not have the hook that OG Naruto had.

Think about it: why would the hash tag AS uses for the show change to add Naruto?

My point is this is the first time a lot of people are probably watching Shippuden - even those who watched OG Naruto on Cartoon Network - and it might be struggling a bit to keep their attention.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

i really don't think any of the shows in front of One Piece are to blame here since Blue Exorcist bounced back.

 

[Tamanon]

Honestly, while I can see there's a story underneath the trappings, the fact that most of the characters seem to shout all the time and the more cartoony artstyle might be turning people off. I know I find that one shipwright that shouts really annoying, funny the first time, but now just annoying.

 

[MetatronM]

i really don't think any of the shows in front of One Piece are to blame here since Blue Exorcist bounced back.

This is more evidence that it likely IS because of the shows in front of One Piece, actually. The implication is that viewership at the end of One Piece was likely higher than it was at the start of the show, which would indicate weakness in front of it.

 

[AdventureMike]

i really don't think any of the shows in front of One Piece are to blame here since Blue Exorcist bounced back.

That's the sticking point to the whole theory. BE DOES bounce back.

It could always be a mix of both. People could be going to bed and people could just skip one piece and come back for BE because they don't like OP. 300,000-ish people is a lot of wiggle room for possible reasons.

 

[MikeMyers]

Bulbasaur in fr/lg can still be useful in the first two gyms to get you past the early game hump of no good pokes to catch. Chikorita struggles in the first two gyms forcing you to catch and grind other pokemon to deal with its short comings.

I just hate how Razor Leaf doesn't CH all the time anymore, and no real coverage since Sludge Bomb is post-game.

I don't find either hard. Bulbasaur is good against a ton of crap in gen 3 including the hardest two gyms, Misty and Surge. Chikorita sucks against the first two gyms (we call this charizard's revenge) but because it is Johto the gym leaders levels are so low you can obliterate them with just a Chikorita. You may say oh what about that scyther but Scyther don't mean shit if you've been training just that Chikorita and not speedrunning or you know, catching a diverse team which is pretty easy.

Haha, I thought I was the only one who noticed the Charmander-Chikorita weak to first 2 gym connection. Yeah Johoto's a breeze, not really any challenge until Red.

If he had a scizor then you might have some reason to sweat if your starter was chikorita

I can agree with that.

This sounds like someone that is still hanging on a decade late to his opinion of hating something when it was popular. Now that it (and its audience) is older and its flaws are more glaring, they're dropping an "I told you so"?

I'm glad I can go back and watch older stuff and not really care about if it holds up or not. Some of it will, some of it won't and some of it just won't be as exciting, but you can still enjoy it for what it is. Someone mentioned DBZ and Gundam Wing a little ways back. Nothing about those shows really holds up against scrutiny or makes me feel the need to get pumped and draw my own original gundams on notebook covers. Gundam Wing "holds up" more so than DBZ, but even DBZ does some great stuff if even for the sake of hilarity in what it tries to take serious.

Take the movie Cooler's Revenge for example. Watch that shit today and during the amusingly dubbed dialogue, you have nu-metal blaring every few minutes with a new song. It is a straight up time travel back to 2001-2002 for me every time I watch it and can always bring a smile to my face. It's funny that an official DBZ movie (which you could buy from Burger King at one point if I remember correctly, Lord Slug too) was given a soundtrack by Funimation in those days that was like "Man...man what do teens like today? Disturbed? The Deftones? Shit okay, lets go with that. That will sell it." Now you have a DBZ movie that looks like the AMVs people used to make as 14 year olds in the older internet days pre-youtube. Is it a good movie? No. Is it well made, ESPECIALLY the dub? Absolutely not. It is still enjoyable for what it is though.

I actually like Inuyasha more now than I back then, mainly because it actually ends now LOL. That, and a few things I saw as a kid just flew over my head.

I watched DB/Z last year and I think the decline in quality started when the Spirit Bomb failed to kill Freeza. Up until that point he was using various strategies to fight, but after that it was mostly just winning because of a transformation. Heck, I even like Kaio-ken more than Super Saiyan because it's a power up that requires strategy and involves consequences. Super Modes get dull after a while.

That being said although the Android arc starts off slow, it really picks up when Cell shows up. Buu arc is insanely entertaining even if its story just stopped making sense, something I can forgive because the series was never strong on plot anyway.

First season (39 episodes) of DBZ in HD is free on Xbox right now if you have an account https://video.xbox.com/#TVSeason/d16c2467-3f54-4514-96e7-cee98ecc2dd4

I own the Dragon Boxes which are uncropped, as well as the Season Sets for DB/GT.

Similar TV: Baka & Test, Panty & Stocking, Cat Planet Cuties.

...."similar"....

Spoiler

& damn, I'm reminded I need to watch Baka & Test season 2 on Funimation's YT channel...

I watched Baka and Test too last year, good stuff. Didn't get around to S2 either though.

I think you guys keep forgetting that One Piece is nowhere near as popular in general in the US as the other two of the big three.

Yeah, the manga doesn't sell as well as Bleach/Naruto in the US.

I'm not sure if 4kids can entirely be blamed for it; after all Sailor Moon and DBZ were still popular despite being hindered by a poor dub. To be honest I think its just the artwork that makes it less appealing to people, it has a kidder "look" to it compared to Bleach and Naruto. If that makes sense.

From what I've been told, if anything, it gets worse and worse. I know they want the Bleach/Shippuden power hour but it isn't doing One Piece any favors by making people fall asleep. It's one in the morning for gods sakes, I would not be surprised at all if people are like "Aww yes Space Dandy! Bleach alright! Naruto!!...this is only half over? *yawwwn* Ehhh I've been up awhile".

My college library has Bleach and Naruto volumes so I've been reading both in between classes. To be fair, this arc of Shippuden isn't bad - its just the anime drags it out. Now in retrospective, I think the Itachi arc is the best arc. The best stuff about this arc is the Sakura stuff you'll get to in a bit.

 

[AdventureMike]

I watched DB/Z last year and I think the decline in quality started when the Spirit Bomb failed to kill Freeza. Up until that point he was using various strategies to fight, but after that it was mostly just winning because of a transformation. Heck, I even like Kaio-ken more than Super Saiyan because it's a power up that requires strategy and involves consequences. Super Modes get dull after a while.

That's a big point to why a lot of people (including myself) like DB better than DBZ. The power creep in DBZ is so bloody apparent. I think I mentioned the same thing about "Prince of Tennis" during the survivor event. You start off with this show about high schoolers playing tennis and a few kids have kinda done their own styles of tennis. Okay, cool, they may not work IRL but it makes the show entertaining. Couple seasons worth of episodes later, every kid is now doing fucking supermoves with super-human strength and dexterity that it just isn't enjoyable anymore. Everyone is just doing their supermoves back and forth until one of theirs upstages the other!

My college library has Bleach and Naruto volumes so I've been reading both in between classes. To be fair, this arc of Shippuden isn't bad - its just the anime drags it out. Now in retrospective, I think the Itachi arc is the best arc. The best stuff about this arc is the Sakura stuff you'll get to in a bit.

That is my experience as well. I've read a lot of Shippuden when I had a subscription to Shonen Jump (and it was still a physical magazine). The manga does not drag nearly as much as the anime, which is unfortunate because now watching it, I keep having to tell my fiancee "No..it'll get better! Don't worry...it's coming..." like for the past 4 weeks.

 

[Dr.Palutena]

I seriously enjoyed the first few arcs of naruto especially the hidan-kakazu arc , but the anime is really killing the pacing so far

 

[BassForever]

I feel like that picture of the dude bros yelling and then sitting disappointed describes the feeling how it must have been knowing that Naruto was back into canon only to have it be even worse with pacing and still no budget.

 

[Moaradin]

I seriously enjoyed the first few arcs of naruto especially the hidan-kakazu arc , but the anime is really killing the pacing so far

The anime does that arc amazingly. It's one of my favorites in the whole series.

 

[MikeMyers]

I didn't really care much for the Immortals stuff this time around when I re-read it.

On a flip note, early Bleach artwork is pretty bad, there's one thing Kubo did improve on. I love the HS adventures though.

Oh and Bass I sent you a message over Twitter.

 

[Levyne]

Anyone who hasn't seen the show is going have high expectations for the arc to more we talk about how (relatively) good it is compared to the rest.

 

[Seda]

pain arc dragged? the pain arc was pretty nicely paced, especially when the villain shows up.

Episodes 152-162 I believe (after some quick Googling) is after some of the

Spoiler

Sasuke-headed plot and maybe some filler is the start of that arc, and the proper start of the "Invasion of Pain Arc". Those episodes I specifically remember dragging (it is largely a training mini-arc after all)

And yes Hidan-Kakuzu arc is still honestly my favorite arc in all of Naruto (after a rewatch), but I hope people don't have expectations too high because myself and some speak somewhat highly of it. It still has the trappings of a typical shonen in places. It's not like the show takes an entirely different identity or anything.

I seriously enjoyed the first few arcs of naruto especially the hidan-kakazu arc , but the anime is really killing the pacing so far

I don't think there's anything totally awful about the actual plot of first part of Shippuden (although I cannot speak about later parts that sound questionable) but yes, everything being dragged out really does 'kill' it.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Episodes 152-162 I believe (after some quick Googling) is after some of the

Spoiler

Sasuke-headed plot and maybe some filler is the start of that arc, and the proper start of the "Invasion of Pain Arc". Those episodes I specifically remember dragging (it is largely a training mini-arc after all)

And yes Hidan-Kakuzu arc is still honestly my favorite arc in all of Naruto (after a rewatch), but I hope people don't have expectations too high because myself and some speak somewhat highly of it. It still has the trappings of a typical shonen in places. It's not like the show takes an entirely different identity or anything.



I don't think there's anything totally awful about the actual plot of first part of Shippuden (although I cannot speak about later parts that sound questionable) but yes, everything being dragged out really does 'kill' it.

It's been a while since I watched and even longer since I read it, so I dont have the best memory of it at the moment, but I remember all the hype around the arc, cause everyone who read the manga knew it was a really high point(it also reflected when it came to its climax and they hired every animator under the sun for 2 episodes of pure fighting)

 

[BassForever]

I had problems with the pain arc in the manga but as a whole I enjoyed it more then the past few arcs before it. Seen most of the fight animated and it was pretty glorious

 

[Imperial Bishop]

I had problems with the pain arc in the manga but as a whole I enjoyed it more then the past few arcs before it. Seen most of the fight animated and it was pretty glorious

All I keep thinking about is the "so fluid my flesh is mostly liquid" animation.

Spoiler

And that Looney Tunes parody video on YT.

 

[foxuzamaki]

All I keep thinking about is the "so fluid my flesh is mostly liquid" animation.

Spoiler

And that Looney Tunes parody video on YT.

That was the result of several different key animators working on it, I think they hired like a ton of people for that particular fight so you see so many different animation styles, some of which isnt uncommon from what you see in gurren lagann.