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[Doctor Decimate]

• The characters' apathy to getting out of the game. Now this idea could work with better execution. In Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, we see how crappy everyone's lives are in the real world before everyone ends up in magic land. So it makes way more sense why all his friends fight the main character in trying to get out of the magic world. But SAO doesn't do this. Indeed, everyone's lives seem pretty good in the real world so their apathy for getting out just comes off as bad writing and stockholm syndrome.

this is what got me last episode. they treat "I LEARNED TO ENJOY LIFE HERE" as a POSITIVE. HOW IS THAT A POSITIVE?

 

[Levyne]

I'm not trying to be an ass. It's essentially driveby posting. A discussion was to be had. You run up and say something that is completely opposite of what would incite more discussion. There's nothing more to be said if your post contradicts the purpose of the discussion. It's the art of discourse and discussion. If there is no more knowledge to be gained then the discussion is over. Most immature posters continue conversations because they fail to recognize that a conversation is over and continually argue resulting in a circular discussion. If you see any FFXIII thread, that's actually what causes so many of the rifts between the posters. I'm sorry that you don't think I'm cool any more but I was merely pointing out and explaining my original post. If you don't agree then, I'm sorry to hear that. If any of my posts sounded ill-mannered, then that was not my purpose and I apologize for it.

My initial posts were short because I am playing a game on my other monitor.

 

[kayos90]

Here's an analogy actually. SAO's storytelling style is sort of like Darker than Black. it's episodic in nature and covers things with its own narrative for each episode or 2 parter or whatever style you want. The thing is, Darker than Black does it well because there's not central plot point/conflict introduced from the getgo. At least... not trasnparently. In SAO, there's a clear endpoint, yet it dillydallies in a stupid episodic storytelling style. Dumb dumb dumb.

 

[grandjedi6]

I'm sure your initial statement is true. However, I think it's foolhardy to say that this is the primary, if not sole, reason as to why people like the show. I've already stated why I like the show and I don't even like harem shows. I don't deny it's pandering, but to say that people like it because it's solely pandering seems a tad assumptive and you sort of misrepresent the people we're talking about.

I think you're in the minority. A lot of the people I find/see who like the show tend to talk about how much they love Kirito and the relationships. There are people who like the premise enough to overlook the other flaws and enjoy what they do get, but as a primary motivation I think they're in the minority. I think the pandering is a huge part of it, even if it's not the sole reason for everyone.

 

[kayos90]

I think you're in the minority. A lot of the people I find/see who like the show tend to talk about how much they love Kirito and the relationships. There are people who like the premise enough to overlook the other flaws and enjoy what they do get, but as a primary motivation I think they're in the minority. I think the pandering is a huge part of it, even if it's not the sole reason for everyone.

Touche. Sure. If you put it that way then I understand where you're coming from.

 

[Zonic]

IS Cobits and action show?

Nah, it's a Clamp romantic series about robo-people that are also computers or something and this one guy falling in love with his female computer and stuff happens.

It's been a while since I read/watch it & even then, I never actually finished it, so I can't really offer an opinion.

 

[kayos90]

So... I'm not entirely knowledgeable about the subject but what are the chances of the show order being rearranged when Soul Eater and SAO finish airing to accommodate new shows/premiers?

 

[Zonic]

I would assume it would depend on how "popular" they feel the show is & if it'd be worth pushing it to an earlier time. I wouldn't be surprised if they kept their 3 most popular stuff i.e the Shonen Jump trio at their current slots.

 

[kayos90]

I would assume it would depend on how "popular" they feel the show is & if it'd be worth pushing it to an earlier time. I wouldn't be surprised if they kept their 3 most popular stuff i.e the Shonen Jump trio at their current slots.

Hmm... Attack on Titan?

 

[Cwarrior]

I feel like liking SAO is less of a crime than hating FLCL.

Flcl is just dumb as Sao both are about some black haird pathetic kids harem, infact at least soa is some times about other stuff which puts it above flcl, both as whole are just otaku pander fantasys, flcl doesn't even try to be the least bit interesting with it's story, it's the aged old otaku fantasy of "alien waifu moving into your home" causing ripples in your life, done for the 9857575377593476575 time.

Seeing through anime fans lies and seeing flcl for what it is, is enough to undo any of Kayo's wrongs.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

by the way, what day does SAO end?

 

[Levyne]

by the way, what day does SAO end?

I would like to know this too, gotta mark the calendar

 

[grandjedi6]

So... I'm not entirely knowledgeable about the subject but what are the chances of the show order being rearranged when Soul Eater and SAO finish airing to accommodate new shows/premiers?

What do you mean by rearranged?

 

[kayos90]

Flcl is just dumb as Sao both are about some black haird pathetic kids harem, infact at least soa is some times about other stuff which puts it above flcl, both as whole are just otaku pander fantasys, flcl doesn't even try to be the least bit interesting with it's story, it's the aged old otaku fantasy of "alien waifu moving into your home" causing ripples in your life, done for the 9857575377593476575 time.

Seeing through anime fans lies and seeing flcl for what it is, is enough to undo any of Kay's wrongs.

Not even sure if I'm supposed to take this positively or not. Regardless, I do enjoy the soundtrack and animation in FLCL as I previously mentioned. It's literally not my cup of tea and I don't think it's particularly good either. Then again, I also couldn't stand the storytelling style of Jojo so.... lol. What do I know.

What do you mean by rearranged?

Like, say Attack on Titan replaced SAO. What're the chances of AoT airing on timeslot earlier than 2:00 AM.

 

[grandjedi6]

by the way, what day does SAO end?

With the movie nights? Feb. 8th currently.

 

[Zonic]

by the way, what day does SAO end?

We've got 12 episodes left, & considering the movie nights in Dec., I think it'll be early Feb. (Feb. 8th is a good guess, as grandjedi8 has mentioned)

 

[Crash Station]

Now, while doing the research in the thread, It came to my attention that there was another MMO themed anime that very same season, Accel World. So even saying that you liked the setting is an invalid argument to me- I love pro wrestling, and I would never call TNA Impact a watchable show.

Accel World isn't an MMORPG, though. It's a fighting game.

 

[grandjedi6]

Like, say Attack on Titan replaced SAO. What're the chances of AoT airing on timeslot earlier than 2:00 AM.

Oh, so you're basically asking what's the chance that Bleach, Naruto and One Piece get moved? Low. They've said before that consistent schedule = better ratings and it doesn't make sense to move the long running series (they're where they are in the schedule because they will run for a long time).

I don't think you're going to see the Big 3 touched in anyway until Bleach ends in the 2nd half of 2014.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

With the movie nights? Feb. 8th currently.

hm. FLCL ends the week before that, so they could double up SAO's finale and have an hour-long slot open.

 

[kayos90]

Oh, so you're basically asking what's the chance that Bleach, Naruto and One Piece get moved? Low. They've said before that consistent schedule = better ratings and it doesn't make sense to move the long running series (they're where they are in the schedule because they will run for a long time).

Thanks. That makes sense.

hm. FLCL ends the week before that, so they could double up SAO's finale and have an hour-long slot open.

I'm pretty sure no one would survive after that night.

 

[bigkrev]

I think you're in the minority. A lot of the people I find/see who like the show tend to talk about how much they love Kirito and the relationships. There are people who like the premise enough to overlook the other flaws and enjoy what they do get, but as a primary motivation I think they're in the minority. I think the pandering is a huge part of it, even if it's not the sole reason for everyone.

In my limited research in the Best of 2012 thread, the only person who mentioned liking Kirito as a character was DTL, and he likes him because he thinks he's hot.

But again, in the argument of escapism in a virtual world... Accel World, another show about MMOs, was airing at the same time as SAO. Now, I've never watched (or even heard of beforehand) Accel World, but lots of people had it in their top 10. I just can't understand why someone would need 2 simultaneous shows fulfilling the same fantasy. Edit: While writing this, Cosmic Blizzard informed me that Accel World isn't about MMOs, but about fighting games. Like I said, never claimed to have watched/know anything about the show!

And speaking of fantasy, I probably was a bit harsh in saying that people who watched the show for the Waifus were "doing it wrong" because there were far more lewd shows available. I forgot the lessons of Kurosensei! Human attraction is a very strange subject, indeed.

 

[B-Dubs]

With the movie nights? Feb. 8th currently.

That's one hell of a birthday present!

• The characters' apathy to getting out of the game. Now this idea could work with better execution. In Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, we see how crappy everyone's lives are in the real world before everyone ends up in magic land. So it makes way more sense why all his friends fight the main character in trying to get out of the magic world. But SAO doesn't do this. Indeed, everyone's lives seem pretty good in the real world so their apathy for getting out just comes off as bad writing and stockholm syndrome.
• The MMO premise could have been interesting... if the author knew anythign about MMOs when writing it. Instead the logic flaws just hurt the basic premise and make the viewer question things more often. It kills the suspension of disbelief. You gotta do your research!
• The pacing is just bad and hurts every aspect of the series.
• The world they are trapped in would be a lot more threatening... if they didn't portray the game as super awesoem and fun and even idyllic in numerous occasions. How is there suppose to be any threat when we spend several episodes in a cottage on a farm with no troubles?
• The relationships are god awful. The main character is perfect and all the girls are stereotypes that exist only to like Kirito. In fact, that applys to every character. Everyone only exists to Kirito's benefit and when they aren't they simply don't exist. You never get the feeling that off-screen characters are doing anything important. Because they aren't. Everyone is just NPCs that exist only when Kirito is there.
• Which brings up another point: NPCs. What's the difference between NPCs, AIs and real gamers? Nothing. They all act the same. That's super stupid and hurts the viewers emotional connection to the story.
• And don't get me started on the obvious plot twists the story relies upon. Or the faux emotional problems.

Which manages to cover quite a few of my problems with the series.

 

[Crash Station]

But again, in the argument of escapism in a virtual world... Accel World, another show about MMOs, was airing at the same time as SAO. Now, I've never watched (or even heard of beforehand) Accel World, but lots of people had it in their top 10. I just can't understand why someone would need 2 simultaneous shows fulfilling the same fantasy.

Well first of all, like I said before, Accel World is a fighting MMO as opposed to SAO. Second, it didn't air at the same time since it was a few seasons apart.

Also, it's by the same author and takes place in the same universe 20ish years after SAO, so there's going to be similarities. However, this was much later in Reki Kawahara's career. His writing and characterizations drastically improved, and the show actually had some really good action that DIDN'T get skipped over like in SAO. Sure, it's still pandery, but a bunch of the faults people find in SAO are not present in Accel World.

Edit: I see you edited, but I'll leave this up anyway.

 

[Jintor]

Flcl is just dumb as Sao both are about some black haird pathetic kids harem, infact at least soa is some times about other stuff which puts it above flcl, both as whole are just otaku pander fantasys, flcl doesn't even try to be the least bit interesting with it's story, it's the aged old otaku fantasy of "alien waifu moving into your home" causing ripples in your life, done for the 9857575377593476575 time.

Seeing through anime fans lies and seeing flcl for what it is, is enough to undo any of Kayo's wrongs.

You not being Aku weirds me out

 

[foxuzamaki]

So just watched episode 2 of log horizon and they just showed what happens when people die in the game, it is interesting how this will work, the expansion pack will probably throw people for a loop once they leave the town and then it isnt gonna happen like they thought it would.

 

[lazybones18]

someone was nice enough to get screencaps of the reaction faces from last night's SAO

 

[Cwarrior]

Out of the 4 requested shows requested I think attack on Titan is the most likely to come to toonami.

You not being Aku weirds me out

Am stuck with emperor yamauchi till I get my laptop back, jeez iPad's suck I don't even know why people buy these things it's a children's play toy.

 

[Raxus]

"the characters throughout the show struggle with harsh moral judgements and often have to question the ethics behind their decisions."

we've only seen half the series at this point. that being said, when the FUCK did any of that ever happen?

Future SAO spoilers

Spoiler

Should I sleep with my big *spoiler*?

Harsh moral judgement indeed.

 

[Man God]

I might need to add legit shook to this.

 

[Saprol]

someone was nice enough to get screencaps of the reaction faces from last night's SAO

I knew I had this lying around somewhere.

 

[789shadow]

http://i.imgur.com/tEo0NzU.jpg

I might need to add legit shook to this.

The typical reaction to watching any episode of SAO

 

[GaimeGuy]

but Asuna and Kirito were totally fine about killing Kuradeel, and the red and yellow players are just faceless antagonists. i mean, there's being badly represented and there's not existing in the first place.

The guy just tried to murder them in cold blood, and they'd been fighting for their lives (literally) for over 2 years, and seen countless companions die right next to them. Do you honestly think that death and killing will seem the same to people stuck in a world like that as it does to people living a cozy lifestyle in the real world?

 

[Doctor Decimate]

The guy just tried to murder them in cold blood, and they'd been fighting for their lives (literally) for over 2 years, and seen countless companions die right next to them. Do you honestly think that death and killing will seem the same to people stuck in a world like that as it does to people living a cozy lifestyle in the real world?

i think you need to reread the context of that response.

 

[GaimeGuy]

i think you need to reread the context of that response.

Or go to sleep.

Yes.... sleeep.....

 

[CorvoSol]

I don't think people are arguing that it doesn't suck. We're just trying to have a discussion on why it's not entirely terrible and if there are any what are redeeming aspects of the show. In addition, try to understand and find out why people like the show.

If there are, they do not extend past the 14th episode.

 

[MikeMyers]

I started watching Shippuden again on Hulu, it becomes much more watchable when you fast forward all those fucking flashbacks.

Also checked out

Spoiler

Shikamaru vs Temaru in original series

for the hell of it, Ino's commentary is always underrated.

 

[Quasar]

If there are, they do not extend past the 14th episode.

Yeah. I liked the first, but I really didn't much like the second. For a range of reasons.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I don't think people are arguing that it doesn't suck. We're just trying to have a discussion on why it's not entirely terrible and if there are any what are redeeming aspects of the show. In addition, try to understand and find out why people like the show.

Animation. Thats it.

Why people like the show? Setting or premise, romance (the worst kind), they think Kirito's a badass (lol) or they like the story (even more lols).

 

[GaimeGuy]

How about that Yuki Kajiura music?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCvmx28g4_s (just don't scroll down for comments, they contain spoilers)


Edit: Though, it is one of her weaker soundtracks, most of the tracks are pretty forgetful

 

[wonzo]

Nope, Bebop did pretty poorly over there.

Nah.

Cowboy Bebop *8,648 Average (9, not including compilations, BOXes, and fan disc) (Sunrise/Bandai Entertainment)
1998/12/18-1999/02/25 **N/A* 1st Session-3rd Session (Three episodes up to 8th Session)
1999/03/25 *6,894 4th Session
1999/04/25 *7,694 5th Session
1999/05/25 *7,481 6th Session
1999/06/25 *8,904 7th Session
1999/07/25 11,085 8th Session
1999/08/25 *9,830 9th Session (Two episodes)
2001/07/25 *7,602 the Compilation 1 (Three omnibus episodes up to Compilation 2)
2001/09/25 *6,917 the Compilation 2
2004/12/23 23,142 5.1ch DVD-BOX (Twenty-six episodes)
2005/01/28 *5,679 Extra Session (Fan Disc)
2008/02/22 *5,162 DVD-BOX(Twenty-six episodes)
2012/12/21 16,055 Blu-ray BOX Limited Edition (Twenty-six episodes)
2012/12/21 *1,332 Blu-ray BOX Standard Edition

 

[Shard]

As it turns out, it a case of yes and no because, yes Cowboy Bebop here has the DVD sales but also has the poor TV runs.

 

[wonzo]

As it turns out, it a case of yes and no because, yes Cowboy Bebop here has the DVD sales but also has the poor TV runs.

TV runs/ratings are almost entirely irrelevant when it comes to late night anime.

 

[Shard]

TV runs/ratings are almost entirely irrelevant when it comes to late night anime.

Yea, this is one of those times where it is relevant considering it resulted in production troubles. Hell, it almost got cancelled in its first run until it moved to cable. Even then all the scheduling problems resulted in the final episode being fished the day of broadcast. This is an era where that was an exception and not standard practice as I understand it. Also, I wonder how true that is in the case of Cowboy Bebop since we are talking about a different era of Television. Still, no denying that it is fairly popular in Japan overall.

 

[wonzo]

It was only "cancelled" (until it began airing again in full on WOWOW a few months later) because of TV Tokyo's concerns with the amount of violence in the show, not because of ratings. It was a huge success by every metric that matters.

 

[Shard]

Yea, nothing I have researched contradicts that, seems to have also won some anime awards.

 

[duckroll]

Nope, Bebop did pretty poorly over there.

Still, no denying that it is fairly popular in Japan overall.

LOL.

 

[Shard]

I was wrong, okay, I admit it. Also, what is this, crossover day?

 

[duckroll]

I was wrong, okay, I admit it. Also, what is this, crossover day?

We should just get warmed up for more of this. Come January, ToonamiGAF and AnimeGAF might as well be the same community!

 

[BassForever]

We should just get warmed up for more of this. Come January, ToonamiGAF and AnimeGAF might as well be the same community!

Not really, I imagine most people watching the sub will post in anime gaf and most watching the dub will post here.

 

[Shard]

Not really, I imagine most people watching the sub will post in anime gaf and most watching the dub will post here.

Indeed, Toonami GAF runs real time while Anime GAF is more about watching Show X and posting your thoughts. Not to mention, our international GAFfers might have a problem watching the dub until later anyway. Still, Duckroll may be right about this happening more and more as Space Dandy approaches.