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Total War: Warhammer |OT| WAAAGHcraft 4
- Thread starter PeskyToaster
- Start date
LurkerPrime
Member
Definitely.
It sounds like a great adaptation to make their unique playstyle feel more fleshed out. Vanilla Chaos worked more like a guerilla force than a rising tide of doom, due to how much lead-up time was needed for Norsca subjugation, and the whole infighting thing. It meant that they always aimed at undefended areas and avoided massed armies, rather than sweeping through everything like an unstoppable force They were basically the Beastmen, only without the ability to mass, ambush, or move around easily.
In my Chaos campaign (I think it was long victory? Don't remember.) it was just a whole lot of running and grovelling, chipping away at weak factions as they fought eachother. Also spent a whooole lot of time vassalizing Norsca (the patch notes don't mention it, but IIRC you could vassalise them if you conquer their last settlement. It took a while. And allying wasn't an option--they would betray you or fight eachother immediately.) Overall the playstyle was just very unsatisfying and unbefitting of Chaos.
From the changelog it sounds like good stuff. It's not just some number tweaks.
So in other words, they're now a proper engine of destruction, that becomes increasingly unstoppable as it gets into gear.
The third game should be incredible, though. All of that Chaos stuff has so much potential.
Yep, that's exactly what they should've felt like to play. Instead, like you mentioned above, a large % of my long campaign was spent eradicating the Norsca factions because they were too much of a pain in the ass as fickle allies. These changes are significant for Chaos. They allow for that rising tide of doom both organizationally and economically. Winning a Chaos campaign before was just tedious work.
LurkerPrime
Member
For Norsca, one thing I'm curious about, that I don't think they've mentioned, is how player-led Norsca and Chaos will interact. Being natural allies makes sense, but I dunno how lore appropriate that is if they're all about subjugation; plus, it'll depend on victory conditions. (Also whether AI Chaos will need to subjugate them too, now.)
It would be cool if getting subjugated by Chaos changed your victory conditions to suit their needs or something.
It would be cool if getting subjugated by Chaos changed your victory conditions to suit their needs or something.
I'm assuming it will be similar to the beastmen player controlled. You can either ally or fight them; whatever you choose.
I think CA said in one of the videos that AI norsca will still be subjugated to chaos when chaos archeon appears (don't quote me on this).
Yeah, Loot & Raze is the real game changer in there. It will definitely make the campaign feel less sluggish and it's something I wanted since day one. Still wish they'd done something more with chaos corruption as a mechanic, and gave ways to speed up horde growths after you reach midgame.
RoR cdkey live at TWaccess.
The patch is also live!
let's go and become the nightmare that destroys the old world
"yes and no". CA said the same thing about bretonia being the last major DLC for warhammer 1 and we still got norsca.
The fact that game 2 will use game 1 faction and mechanics on the mega campaign might mean that some of these features might trickle down to game 1.
In a nutshell expect this to be the last DLC and patch to warhammer 1, as CA will focus on game 2 for a while however until CA clearly explains how the mega campaign works there is *hope* for more content/updates.
The patch is also live!
let's go and become the nightmare that destroys the old world
"yes and no". CA said the same thing about bretonia being the last major DLC for warhammer 1 and we still got norsca.
The fact that game 2 will use game 1 faction and mechanics on the mega campaign might mean that some of these features might trickle down to game 1.
In a nutshell expect this to be the last DLC and patch to warhammer 1, as CA will focus on game 2 for a while however until CA clearly explains how the mega campaign works there is *hope* for more content/updates.
LurkerPrime
Member
It seems like the pushed the launch forward by 3 hours; for the longest time that was the release window. Download for all three (Norsca, RoR, patch) is 2.5GB.
I'm currently playing the waiting game.
I'm currently playing the waiting game.
Worth noting that on the Foundation Update page they make it sound like they might tweak it further depending on feedback. Nothing confirmed, though.
Started a campaign with Throgg. By turn 2 I have a full province with 3 settlements just by winning a battle at the end of the first turn. Smooth sailing.
edit: turn 8 now, 3 full provinces and I got Surtha Ek with his mammoth that wiped out half my army by itself. This campaign with its high stakes battles is fun as hell.
edit: turn 8 now, 3 full provinces and I got Surtha Ek with his mammoth that wiped out half my army by itself. This campaign with its high stakes battles is fun as hell.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
I think you need to start a new campaign.
Sändersson
Member
How to control where the green knight spawns?
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Sändersson;245840110 said:
You can't.
Sändersson
Member
Sigh.. should have guessed. So he basically just spawns near your highest lvl hero?
Also does anyone have any tips against wood elfs? Im playing as bretonnia and there are like 5 factions fighting with me against them but we cant do crap. First the atrition wipes a good part of your forces and then when you finally get to a city you are faced with full garrison and one full stack. I once managed to wipe the tree of something and two of their cities but it just does not seem to matter to them.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
I never fought the Wood Elves that often in my campaign. I mostly had an army on their border to fight off any stacks that came across.
PeskyToaster
Member
Chaos changes are awesome. I believe many of the Chaos mechanics were left over from Attila's horde mechanics and weren't really Chaos-lore friendly.
Sändersson
Member
I kinda had this weird idea that I would shower them with gold and in the end ally them to fight the chaos hordes but after realizing how damn expensive it is I just gave up at some point they ended up fighting bordeaux and I joined to fight with them.
LurkerPrime
Member
Norsca are interesting so far, with a pretty unique playstyle. They don't have a bonus for capturing a full province, yet have very impressive defensive structures, and I think a special one for provincial capitals? From my brief time with them, you can just let disorder run rampant and trust garrisons to protect your capitals, while also sporadically conquering. They also don't suffer confederation penalties, but that would be overkill on top of some of the events they get (natural disasters) and their very poor infrastructure.
Finding it difficult to figure out a plan of attack with Throgg on very hard, though. I'm gonna restart and go East instead of West this time--it's imperative to get a revenue flow going, and once you get a strong first army, you can defeat other factions in combat and confederate with them, which is easier than slogging through those Western areas.
And yeah, it's best to wipe them out in one go if you can, they rebuild very quickly.
Finding it difficult to figure out a plan of attack with Throgg on very hard, though. I'm gonna restart and go East instead of West this time--it's imperative to get a revenue flow going, and once you get a strong first army, you can defeat other factions in combat and confederate with them, which is easier than slogging through those Western areas.
If you enter raiding or camping stance, you won't suffer attrition. It's the only way to approach their cities without losing everything. You'll probably need two armies to take their cities easily and maintain momentum. Cavalry is deadly against them, anti anti-large or fire-imbued attacks can waste the treemen, IIRC.Sändersson;245841144 said:
And yeah, it's best to wipe them out in one go if you can, they rebuild very quickly.
razzmahtazz
Member
What races are left for the 3rd game? I don't think a lot of people are gonna be hyped up for a full game release if its only god-aligned chaos races as their main addition.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Tomb Kings and Ogre Kingdoms.
manfestival
Member
They can always make new primaris empire soldiers ahem I mean stormcast eternals
Sändersson
Member
Haha, never that about raiding stance. Will propably make raids in the north way easier. Thanks for the heads up.
Kaffeemann
Banned
Going back to mostly vanilla after dozens of campaigns with Steel Faith Overhaul is brutal.
Enemy AI is braindead, their army compositions total trash (60% ranged cavalry), garrisons are pathetic, magic sucks, battles are too short, etc etc.
The Norsca campaign is still very fun!
Enemy AI is braindead, their army compositions total trash (60% ranged cavalry), garrisons are pathetic, magic sucks, battles are too short, etc etc.
The Norsca campaign is still very fun!
How was your Norscan campaign, boys?
I finished a legendary campaign and by the time i had unified Norsca and dealt with all the rebels the AI had simply annihilated itself. Empire vs Vampire and Brettonia vs wood elves. These 2 wars plus constant beastmen and greenskins invasions destroyed everything lol.
The campaign was still fun due to the monster quests and quest battles which were mostly great, but I was really expecting that i was gonna invade and sack a powerful and rich Empire this time.
I hope your experience differs from mine.
I finished a legendary campaign and by the time i had unified Norsca and dealt with all the rebels the AI had simply annihilated itself. Empire vs Vampire and Brettonia vs wood elves. These 2 wars plus constant beastmen and greenskins invasions destroyed everything lol.
The campaign was still fun due to the monster quests and quest battles which were mostly great, but I was really expecting that i was gonna invade and sack a powerful and rich Empire this time.
I hope your experience differs from mine.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
I just started my invasion of the Empire with Middenheim being the main concern. I had a brief war with Kislev after I united the tribes, which took less time than I thought. And also I'm working on my fourth monster hunt.
Aztechnology
Member
So, the monster hunts? Do I achieve victory just by killing the main beast? Or do I need to kill all units on the map? Like with the Frozen Dragon I mean. Just out of curiosity.
You have to rout the entire force
To get the changes you have to start a new campaign, but let's say you really wanted to end the campaign and now the save wasn't working. You can go to properties beta tab and choose the version of the game you want allowing you to keep playing the old file.
Sändersson;245841144 said:
I normally do this. use 2 full stack mid to elite units and go in athel lore with the raiding stance and burn a city; then return to replenish. It takes a while but It should work as long as the WE haven't expend enough to have several high tier stacks.
We know:
Game 2 -> high elves; dark elves; skaven; lizadmen
The way CA has been talking about the map and their changes for DLC packs we can conclude that tomb kings will be DLC for game 2. Since norsca got in without having an army book, i don't think it is too far fetched to expect a few minor factions for the new world campaign like araby.
For game 3 we are left:
- DoC
- chaos dwarves
- ogre kingdoms
- kislev
The russian datamine shows that the plan is for DoC to be 4 factions, one of each god. With the introduction of norsca it shows that CA's plan has become much more ambitious. I think that the 4 factions above will be the "core" factions for game 3; with around 2 LL for each faction. They can expand the DoC faction by using a lord pack solely focus on 1/2 chaos gods.
Aztechnology
Member
Cool, good to know. Thanks.
Kaffeemann
Banned
Well, I'm not bothering with vanilla very hard difficulty anymore, lol.
The enemy gets +10 morale and I get -5? +8 public order and -4??? What a joke.
But on hard I'll probably snowball really hard so there's really no good way to play the game...
The enemy gets +10 morale and I get -5? +8 public order and -4??? What a joke.
But on hard I'll probably snowball really hard so there's really no good way to play the game...
Sändersson
Member
Yeah its ridiculous and not fun at all. Also the way the AI seems to always target your towns etc over anyone elses on very hard is mind blowingly stupid. For example when I played my last campaign with empire on very hard the orcs near marienburg always some how decided not attack any bretonnia/marienburg armies (not even their smaller armies even though they were at war with each other) and just waltzed straight to my starting province. It feels very jarring and cheap when the AI sometimes just skips other factions which would be way more logical just to get to you. And tbh you really cant defend against multiple factions this way. Atleast I never could.
Sändersson
Member
Did you use industry or farms for the income?
Aztechnology
Member
Sändersson;245971270 said:
Believe me after a while playing, anything other than like Very hard will leave you having no fun. It's already at the point where it you start snowballing at any point it's just a bloodbath regardless of difficulty. The only difficulty I won't play is Legendary and that's because of the horrible Camera restrictions.
There's mods for the public order if it really bothers you. But generally the AI does need to cheat in order to keep up. They are at a disadvantage against a player afterall.
Another option for balancing is the Steel Faith overhaul mod. Honesty I think it does a much better job than default difficulties. And has a lot of other cool features.
Sändersson
Member
Yeah I have been eyeing out the steel faith mod. And sure, hard is a bit easy after playing with very hard but it wont feel as cheap. Im not sure if its even "harder" when you are fighting a winning war and suddenly some random orc faction decides to ignore all other factions and starts wiping your cities which you cant defend. I am 100% sure that ai targets you over others on very hard, at this point it cant be just bad luck. Also dont the stat boosts the ai gets basicly break agents?
I normally prefer farms because i don't use peasants that much so i prefer the high growth high income of farms.Sändersson;245971354 said:
Normally my armies are:
- 6X line infantry (normally i go for the men at arms with AP)
- 1X grail reliquae
- 1X damsel
- 1X trebuchet
- 1X archers with poison
- 4X questing knights
- 4X shock cavalry (grail knights or knights of the realm
- 2X flying units (Lord; paladin, pegasus or hipogriph)
I use the artillery to force the enemy to attack; use flying units to harass/kill enemy artillery; after this i use my cavalry to wipe out the enemy flankers while their line is bugged down with my peasants. My peasants die a lot but my cavalry normally finishes the job.
You can however go for a more total war traditional army with a lot more unmounted units. with these types of armies it is better to go for industry since you need as many peasants as you can get. bretonia archers and foot squires are really really good units and "trade" very well on the battlefield so it is viable to have an army like this:
- 6X line infantry (i go for the men at arms with highest MD)
- 2X flanker infantry (foot squires; battle pilgrims)
- 1X grail reliquae
- 1X damsel
- 2X trebuchet
- 3X archers with poison (use fire against undead and VC)
- 2X questing knights
- 2X shock cavalry (grail knights or knights of the realm)
Don't forget to invest on the red skill tree that increases LD for bretonian men at arms. with so much infantry that is "easaly" routed you need to keep the army inside the Lord, damsel and grail radius for the LD buff
IMO VH is the difficulty that *everyone should play, the modifiers there force you to use most game mechanics while light enough that you aren't at a disadvantage against the AI.
*everyone that has a mastery of total war systems and not everyone that plays total war.
titiklabingapat
Member
Thinking about building a gaming PC just for this game after the holidays. Do I need to play the first one in order to understand the basic mechanics of the 2nd game? Like does it all happen at different continents?
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
It's a joke because both series has orcs in them.
Goldfishking
Member
It's just a joke. Basically Warcraft was originally going to be a warhammer game, but when they couldn't get the license blizzard just made their own IP.
Edit: Source
LurkerPrime
Member
Never forget
Total War: Warhammer II |OT| World of WAAAGHcraft
Total War: Warhammer II |OT| World of WAAAGHcraft
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
I thought we agreed: No more Warcraft references in the titles.
LurkerPrime
Member
Total War: Warhammer III |OT| Reign of Chaos
It just fits, man. I can't help it.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Goddammit, Lurker.
Each warhammer game can be played by itself like a stand alone expansion. Each game does have different continents. All this said having both games will allow you to play on a "mega" campaign which has the map of both games.
So what is currently available for each game?
Game 1
- base races
- DLC races
- other DLC
-> empire
-> dwarfs
->bretonia
-> greenskins
-> vampire counts
-> dwarfs
->bretonia
-> greenskins
-> vampire counts
- DLC races
-> beastmen
-> warriors of chaos
-> wood elves
-> norsca
-> warriors of chaos
-> wood elves
-> norsca
- other DLC
-> blood pack
-> lord pack for empire and vampire counts
-> lord pack for greenskins and dwarfs.
-> lord pack for empire and vampire counts
-> lord pack for greenskins and dwarfs.
Game 2:
- base races:
-Expected DLC races:
-> lizardmen
-> skaven
-> high elves
-> dark elves
-> skaven
-> high elves
-> dark elves
-Expected DLC races:
-> tomb kings
My opinion on which game to buy:
CA has been getting better and better at making this game, each subsequent DLC goes further away from the standard total war formula, creating mechanics that encourage that race playstyle more naturally. Assuming this trend continues warhammer 2 will be a much better game then warhammer 1. If i were making a new PC i'd wait for warhammer 2 release and see the OT here and . Note that warhammer 1 was in humble monthly bundle so you might be able to get it cheap on the trade forums. If you are a tabletop player you can also just choose the game that has the faction you used to field. I'm told nothing beats seeing your favorite tabletop unit killing your most hated tabletop unit.
In short, thinking logically i'd buy warhammer 2 if it doesn't release with any severe problems but i'd pick warhamemr 1 if it had a race that i wanted to play as.
If i make warhammer 3 OT i'd perhaps go with that title. It is such a perfect fit.
For warhammer 2 OT I wanted a subtitle that represented the elves, the dinosaurs and the rats. Any ideas?
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Total War: Warhammer II |OT| Dragons, Dinosaurs, Hydras We Got Them All
Total War: Warhammer II |OT| Welcome to Jurassic Island
Total War: Warhammer II |OT| No, That is not Master Splinter
Total War: Warhammer II |OT| Welcome to Jurassic Island
Total War: Warhammer II |OT| No, That is not Master Splinter
johancruijff
Banned
Total War: Warhammer II |OT| Tails, Scales and Pointy Ears
_________________________________________________
Waiting for all the mods to update to jump back in with Norsca and fresh Chaos
_________________________________________________
Waiting for all the mods to update to jump back in with Norsca and fresh Chaos
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
That is a winner.