Support NeoGAF

[jakonovski]

This is 100% appeasement, wanting to ignore the most important issue of our day for the sake of one delusional man. There literally is no reason to do it except to make Trump comfortable despite being a monumental shithole.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Fuck your guy

 

[Frankfurter]

Nice spin on that article... it sounds more like a political power play by Merkel given the upcoming German elections as the primary motivation.

Canada's statement after the United States official withdraw could not be any more clear.

It was actually supposed to be a clear message to Trump: you can't divide the world, you can't renegotiate.

Edit: Keep in mind that climate change is certainly among the top 3 topics that a G20 should talk about. It's an immense problem, one that might ultimately cost tens of million lifes. But Canada wishes for it to not even being mentioned!

 

[excelsiorlef]

This is 100% appeasement, wanting to ignore the most important issue of our day for the sake of one delusional man. There literally is no reason to do it except to make Trump comfortable despite being a monumental shithole.

They aren't ignoring the issue...

Dude the Accord is going nowhere.

 

[espher]

This is not appeasement.

It's a different tactic.

Not my preferred tactic.

But it is exactly that.

Yeah, reading through this thread, I feel the word appeasement is being tossed around without people quite knowing what that means...

 

[Maximilian E.]

Well, Merkel seems to be having the biggest balls in the political sphere as it is now.
This reminds me of a quote by Doulglas from The IT Crowd..

"[..] You've got spunk and balls, and I like that in a woman"

(the whole quote and others can be found here

 

[Gutek]

Pathetic.

 

[gutter_trash]

Yeah, reading through this thread, I feel the word appeasement is being tossed around without people quite knowing what that means...

Canada is the master of playing both sides when it comes to environmental issues no matter the colour of the Prime Minister in Ottawa.

NDPers will scream on top of their lungs that they would be different, but that is bullshit especially considering Alberta's NDP continuing business as usual when it comes to tar sands.

 

[espher]

Canada is the master of playing both sides when it comes environmental issues not matter the colour of the Prime Minister in Ottawa.

NDPers will scream on top of their lungs that they would be different, but that is bullshit especially considering Alberta's NDP continuing business as usual when it comes to tar sands.

Yeah, you're not wrong here. We're too dependent on this stuff to play hardball at this point, I think, as much as I'd love a more aggressive stance, and every party is horrible two-faced on it because of that... but this still isn't to the level of appeasement to me. I mean, the public statements certainly don't make it sound like anyone is bending over backwards to avoid riling up the orange beast.

 

[tuxfool]

He shouldn't be asking it to be dropped from the G20 meeting.

 

[Earthstrike]

So, just to review, all the signatories are still on board with the Paris accord.

This is about a decision to not all mutually publically reaffirm their support for it, which would be a public stunt to humiliate Trump.

The question people have to ask is, would all the other g20 leaders publically reaffirming their position cause trump to reverse it? No it wouldn't. Not only that, but as we all know many american mayors and states are staying committed to the Paris accord.

So basically, people are angry that countries aren't damaging their political relationship with Trump to achieve a poltiical pressure that will go nowhere, in spite of the thing they are trying to support already being supported by resistance groups within the USA.

I'm not outraged, and noone really should be.

 

[4Tran]

Basically the EU is alone amongst the developed nations.

China is totally behind the EU; heck they might even be more aggressive. I imagine that India isn't too far behind (although they do have a lot of problems to tackle).

Canada is the master of playing both sides when it comes to environmental issues no matter the colour of the Prime Minister in Ottawa.

NDPers will scream on top of their lungs that they would be different, but that is bullshit especially considering Alberta's NDP continuing business as usual when it comes to tar sands.

Pretty much. Canada gains nothing from directly insulting the US President, so this doesn't seem like a very problematic approach to take. It's not as if Canada's position on climate change has shifted in any way, and the damage was already inflicted by Trump.

 

[KernelPanic]

People are acting like Trudeau is withdrawing from the Paris Accord.

Like others have said Canada tends to play both sides, and due to our closeness to the US our response will be different.

I'd wait and see how Canada does at NAFTA renegotiations before saying Trudeau bends over to the US. They promised a tough stance here.

 

[firehawk12]

Canada is the master of playing both sides when it comes to environmental issues no matter the colour of the Prime Minister in Ottawa.

NDPers will scream on top of their lungs that they would be different, but that is bullshit especially considering Alberta's NDP continuing business as usual when it comes to tar sands.

Oh please, if Harper did this, as he did during the Bush-days, how many people would jump on him instead of calling him a master of five-dimensional chess?

 

[pr0cs]

, plan to revamp long term energy production etc.

Plan? Surely you jest. Unless you mean tax the shit out of people.. Not much of a plan really

 

[4Tran]

Oh please, if Harper did this, as he did during the Bush-days, how many people would jump on him instead of calling him a master of five-dimensional chess?

To my understanding, Harper's position on climate change is completely different from Trudeau's. Hell, he even muzzled climate scientists the way that Trump is trying to!

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Canada has a population of 30 million. USA is our direct neighbour, and our largest trading partner. Our economy is heavily reliant on the USA.

I don't blame Trudeau at all. Like, Trump could probably fuck us nicely if he so desired.

It's one thing if you have a population in the 100 millions and have trading partners right next to you, its another if you have a pop of 30 million and your next trading partner is 5000 miles away.

 

[Violater]

His canoe did look like he bloodied some baby seals on the way over.

Spoiler

Poor guy probably just trying to keep the peace.

 

[gutter_trash]

Oh please, if Harper did this, as he did during the Bush-days, how many people would jump on him instead of calling him a master of five-dimensional chess?

Canadians no matter the party must admit they own the tar-sands, like it or not.

Can't go around with stickers and slogans pretending to be all green when you got the satellite view of muck in northern Alberta.

Who is the Premier of Alberta? ah, and NDPer. Did she clamp down on their main industry? LOL no

be realistic and admit our country's hypocrisy.

I recognize it.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

Canada has a population of 30 million. USA is our direct neighbour, and our largest trading partner. Our economy is heavily reliant on the USA.

I don't blame Trudeau at all. Like, Trump could probably fuck us nicely if he so desired.

It's one thing if you have a population in the 100 millions and have trading partners right next to you, its another if you have a pop of 30 million and your next trading partner is 5000 miles away.

I agree. Trudeau shouldn't be asked to do this. His country is far too reliant on a stable relationship with the U.S., and Trump has displayed time and again how unstable he is.

 

[Lonely1]

Not surprised at all. After all, Trudeau was ready to throw Mexico under the buss to appease Trump on NAFTA negotiations, and yet Canada got hit by the first strike on the trade wars.

Mexico already tried the appeasement route. Peña Nieto was ready to bow his head, but the monster cannot be sated and wanted more humiliation, forcing Peña Nieto to grow a spine, giving him his only political victory so far. Mexico wont pay for the wall and that has been made clear.

Trump has been very clear. He is in this for Trump and his vision of the USA and none else. The only way to deal with him is by showing him how he would get hurt if he continues on the current course. During the NAFTA scare of a month ago, Mexican position was: We wont negotiate with a gun to hour head, if you start the withdrawal then NAFTA is over. Yes, this will hurt us, but you will need to deal with the collapsing economy of Texas and Arizona. And look how red they are on that map you love so much!

 

[Lucumo]

Error: Backbone not found.

 

[Fritz]

Lol, "Trudeau leader of the free world" my ass

 

[excelsiorlef]

Like for the 100th time stop calling this appeasement.

 

[oti]

Too bad, Canada.
"Leader of the Free World" lmao.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

Plan? Surely you jest. Unless you mean tax the shit out of people.. Not much of a plan really

Do you know what a carbon tax is and how it actually serves free market economics in a much more representative way? It's better to be informed than blurt out stuff like "tax the shit out of people".

Watch these videos:

Prof. of Economics at the University of Queensland explains

Veritasium explains the concept perfectly

A carbon tax is not "just another tax"

It is a mechanism to literally place highly polluting industries on a level playing field; essentially the tax payer stops subsidizing these industries. Another reason why anyone who calls Trudeau a hypocrite on climate should be laughed at. A carbon tax will accelerate our way to a clean and sustainable economy, and eventually make things cheaper in the long run.

 

[gutter_trash]

I agree. Trudeau shouldn't be asked to do this. His country is far too reliant on a stable relationship with the U.S., and Trump has displayed time and again how unstable he is.

And especially since Trump won't even complete his first term.

 

[4Tran]

Like for the 100th time stop calling this appeasement.

Hey, didn't you read the part where Trudeau gave Trump the Sudetenland?

 

[Showaddy]

British Prime Minister Theresa May didn't want to damage relations with Trump, since she would need him in the event of a hard Brexit, the Chancellery surmised last week.

Take that Hard Brexit and shove it up your arse May. Makes me physically sick to think of us jumping into bed with Trump to save us from this shitshow.

 

[oti]

I agree. Trudeau shouldn't be asked to do this. His country is far too reliant on a stable relationship with the U.S., and Trump has displayed time and again how unstable he is.

One of the G7 shouldn't be asked to formally commit to the Paris Accord at the G20 summit?

Come on. What is this. This is not the time for Realpolitik. There's a right side and a wrong side here.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Once again Trudeau is all talk and no substance.

 

[Ouroboros]

Help us Obi Wan Macron, you are our only hope.

 

[excelsiorlef]

One of the G7 shouldn't be asked to formally commit to the Paris Accord at the G20 summit?

Come on. What is this. This is not the time for Realpolitik. There's a right side and a wrong side here.

He's not going to commit.

6 countries or 19 countries yelling at him isn't going to make it happen either...

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

One of the G7 shouldn't be asked to formally commit to the Paris Accord at the G20 summit?

Come on. What is this. This is not the time for Realpolitik. There's a right side and a wrong side here.

Trudeau's got way more to lose than anyone else. I'm fine with putting pressure on Trump for pulling out of the Paris Accord, but why are we blaming Trudeau, when other countries asked to remove the issue as well?

 

[ZeroGravity]

Don't care about a leader who beats his chest. I just want him to do what's best for Canada. He is.

 

[truestatic]

One of the G7 shouldn't be asked to formally commit to the Paris Accord at the G20 summit?

Come on. What is this. This is not the time for Realpolitik. There's a right side and a wrong side here.

We're already signatories. We ratified it last October. Isn't this about a commitment to optics rather than a commitment to the accord?

 

[pr0cs]

A carbon tax is not "just another tax"

It is in this country, it will do nothing in the overall process to decouple our reliance on hydrocarbons. I don't trust the government at all with any concept of taxing people into submission. They should have made more incentives for green living besides the stick and carrot they've adopted

 

[jiggle]

Oh noes
He flunked the purity test

 

[knkng]

One of the G7 shouldn't be asked to formally commit to the Paris Accord at the G20 summit?

Come on. What is this. This is not the time for Realpolitik. There's a right side and a wrong side here.

It's on the first page:

Ottawa, Ontario
June 1, 2017
The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, today issued the following statement in response to the United States’ decision to withdraw from the Paris Agreement:

“We are deeply disappointed that the United States federal government has decided to withdraw from the Paris Agreement. Canada is unwavering in our commitment to fight climate change and support clean economic growth. Canadians know we need to take decisive and collective action to tackle the many harsh realities of our changing climate.

“While the U.S. decision is disheartening, we remain inspired by the growing momentum around the world to combat climate change and transition to clean growth economies. We are proud that Canada stands united with all the other parties that support the Agreement. We will continue to work with our domestic and international partners to drive progress on one of the greatest challenges we face as a world.

“This is not only about the huge economic opportunities of clean growth and the need to address the pressing threats of climate change. This is about an ambitious and unshakeable desire to leave a cleaner, healthier and more sustainable planet for our kids and for generations to come.

“We are all custodians of this world, and that is why Canada will continue to work with the U.S. at the state level, and with other U.S. stakeholders, to address climate change and promote clean growth. We will also continue to reach out to the U.S. federal government to discuss this matter of critical importance for all humankind, and to identify areas of shared interest for collaboration, including on emissions reductions.”

Beyond that, there's no reason for Canada to engage in political stunts at G20. It will have no effect other than to stroke some egos, and do nothing to help Canada.

 

[Lonely1]

Trudeau's got way more to lose than anyone else. I'm fine with putting pressure on Trump for pulling out of the Paris Accord, but why are we blaming Trudeau, when other countries asked to remove the issue as well?

If Trump believes he can get something by screwing Canada, he will do it. Whenever Trudeau calls him on Paris or not.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

This stratagem has not worked for anyone yet.

I think 1% > 0% in this case lol

Sides, Canada is also in the unique scenario where we are permanent neighbours... At the same time though, I now think that the call to Merkel should have been "Yeah we'll keep our mouths shut - but you guys should go all in." I'd be happier if he said that.

 

[Pandaman]

Whole lot of non-canadians opinionating on how we should jump on a grenade for them.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Whole lot of non-canadians opinionating on how we should jump on a grenade for them.

I can't help but be a bit curious how many of them are from the US.

 

[Zimbardo]

Trudeau goes whatever way the wind blows. Obama was farther left, so Trudy was a little to the left with him. Trump is to the right, so that pulled Trudy back to the center, which is where the Canadian Liberals always tended to dwell.

His approval of the pipelines was the first clue that he's not this leftist savior that some had hoped for ... tho he does try to say all the right things like a good politician. actions speak louder than words and you can't please everyone.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

Once again Trudeau is all talk and no substance.

Read the thread.

Ok for anyone who keeps saying this, here we go.

The Trudeau government's concrete actions on climate change:

Pricing carbon pollution

1) Jurisdictions will choose a system: they can put a direct price on carbon pollution or they can adopt a cap-and-trade system.

2) Pricing will be based on GHG emissions and applied to a common and broad set of sources to ensure effectiveness and minimize interprovincial competitiveness impacts.
Revenues collected stay with the province or territory of origin.

3) The provinces and territories decide how to use this money. For example, they can give it back to families, build rapid transit, or support small businesses that will innovate and create good jobs for Canadians.

4) In provinces and territories with a direct price on carbon pollution, the price will start at a minimum of $10 per tonne in 2018, rising by $10 each year to $50 per tonne in 2022.

5) The Government of Canada will provide a pricing system for provinces and territories that do not adopt one of the two systems by 2018.

Sustainable and efficient homes and buildings

The Government of Canada will work with the provinces and territories to:

1) Develop a “net-zero energy ready” model building code, with the goal that provinces and territories adopt it by 2030.

2) Develop a model code for existing buildings to help guide energy efficiency improvements during renovations, with the goal that all provinces and territories adopt it.

3) Develop tools to support the aim of requiring labelling of building energy use by as early as 2019.

4) Use funds from the $2 billion Low Carbon Economy Fund and green infrastructure investments to help interested provinces and territories expand their efforts to improve building energy performance.

5) Set new standards for heating equipment and other key technologies.

6) Support Indigenous communities and governments as they improve the energy efficiency of their buildings.

Transportation

Canada is continuing to invest in more charging stations.

1) Budget 2016 provides $62.5 million for infrastructure for alternative transportation fuels, including charging infrastructure for electric vehicles and natural gas and hydrogen refueling stations.

2) Budget 2016 will invest up to $3.4 billion to improve and expand public transit systems across Canada over three years starting in 2016–17; and, as announced in the Fall Economic Statement, an additional $25.3 billion will be invested over the next 11 years in new transit networks and system extensions.

3) Canadians are already benefiting from improvements in the fuel efficiency of new passenger vehicles. By 2025, it is expected that new cars and light trucks will consume up to 50% less fuel than 2008 vehicles.

4) Canada has the world's strongest air emissions standards for new cars and light trucks.

5) Canada’s Clean Fuel Standard will aim to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 30 Mt per year by 2030.

Clean tech R&D

This fall, the Government of Canada announced $21.9 billion over 11 years for green infrastructure which will include targeted investments to support greenhouse gas reductions and enable greater climate change adaptation and increased resilience. This investment will in part support the attraction of the capital investments necessary to transition Canada's electricity system towards 90 percent non-emitting by 2030.

Plus a lot more. All information can be found here: https://www.canada.ca/en/services/environment/weather/climatechange/climate-action.html

 

[Silexx]

I think 1% > 0% in this case lol

Sides, Canada is also in the unique scenario where we are permanent neighbours... At the same time though, I now think that the call to Merkel should have been "Yeah we'll keep our mouths shut - but you guys should go all in." I'd be happier if he said that.

I mean, the problem that creates is that you possibly end up creating a situation where the EU and/or Germany is left isolated as the lone voice of dissent. You're basically leaving them hanging unless you present a united front against Trump on the Paris accord.

Trudeau goes whatever way the wind blows. Obama was farther left, so Trudy was a little to the left with him. Trump is to the right, so that pulled Trudy back to the center, which is where the Canadian Liberals always tended to dwell.

His approval of the pipelines was the first clue that he's not this leftist savior that some had hoped for ... tho he does try to say all the right things like a good politician. actions speak louder than words and you can't please everyone.

Trudeau campaigned on approving the pipelines. That was never a surprise to anyone when they elected his party to government.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Rather spineless of Trudeau, CC is not something to play politics over if you are on the right side of sanity.

Overall, Canada is making some strides on tackling CC, as Bubba Big Guns highlights, but it is not yet climate progressive. Continuing with the XL pipeline and exploiting the Tar sands puts paid to that. It doesn't add up.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Trudeau goes whatever way the wind blows. Obama was farther left, so Trudy was a little to the left with him. Trump is to the right, so that pulled Trudy back to the center, which is where the Canadian Liberals always tended to dwell.

His approval of the pipelines was the first clue that he's not this leftist savior that some had hoped for ... tho he does try to say all the right things like a good politician. actions speak louder than words and you can't please everyone.

But again this isn't him blowing anywhere.

He's not asking for a renegotiation of the accord to make it more appealing to Trump.

He's suggesting that since everyone knows the US is out and everyone else is committed. Why not focus on trying to get the US on board with some of the issues because that's sure as fuck better than nothing.

Nothing of this is changing Canada's status on the accord

 

[_woLf]

Trudeau, you were the chosen one. why do you have no backbone

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Whole lot of non-canadians opinionating on how we should jump on a grenade for them.

I'm Canadian.

I am 100% for doing something about climate change.

I'm also 100% for not paying $5 for an orange.

Our dollar is weak right now. In terms that nerds will understand, we pay $80 for video games right now.

So we are relying on a madman to the south not to destroy us. You think Trump gives a fuck?

He is a SPITEFUL man. You look at him wrong, he'll do some crazy shit.