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True story of an abused game tester. LONG READ
- Thread starter Costanza
- Start date
Corwood Rep
Member
kamikaze said:
Not a bad guess.
Of course no one should have to work this much, but the difference between his plight and that of a designer, programmer or artist is that he's paid hourly.
Every hour he works increases how much money he makes, unlike those salaried positions, and that's not insignificant when you factor in time-and-a-half and double-time. If he really was working 110 hours a week, about 60 of those hours would be overtime.
Every hour he works increases how much money he makes, unlike those salaried positions, and that's not insignificant when you factor in time-and-a-half and double-time. If he really was working 110 hours a week, about 60 of those hours would be overtime.
splattergnome
Member
I am curious at what the DS game which saved him was.
ManaByte
Gold Member
iapetus said:
Exactly. This guy comes off as the sort of person not really concerned about doing his job, but more about working 8 hours a day, then going to get drunk. What he describes sounds about normal for the game industry, and this guy obviously isn't suited for it. He doesn't have the right mindset to deal with crunch time and crisises that pop up, and as such he probably would never make it past the lowest level tester.
Ravidrath said:
Exactly. There was a time three years ago when I was working more than 12 hours a day, six days a week with only 8 hours off to sleep and that went on for about four months. During that time I was making more money than my salaried bosses. And you know what? Not once did I ever complain. If you're going to go for a job in the gaming industry you're going to have to go through hell hours and crunch time. Everyone has to walk on fire and if you can't deal with it, get the **** out.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
I know you do have to put in some serious overtime/crunchtime in the games industry, but 110 hrs is insane anyway you slice it. I thought 70-80 for a week was maniacal, but those type of hours can tamper with an individual's health.
If he didn't like it he should have quit. That's what this industry throws at you at times.
A few years back we crunched for 16 hour days 7 days a week for.... '3 months'.
Thats 112 hours a week for 3 months straight.
I certainly didn't enjoy it, but if you want to "play the game" so to speak and stay in the industry thats the kind of situations you need to be ready to deal with at times.
A few years back we crunched for 16 hour days 7 days a week for.... '3 months'.
Thats 112 hours a week for 3 months straight.
I certainly didn't enjoy it, but if you want to "play the game" so to speak and stay in the industry thats the kind of situations you need to be ready to deal with at times.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Well, at least he got a nice check. At least I assumed he did.
PedroLumpy
Member
Wow, I'm kinda surprised at the attitude of some in here. Don't people think there is something inherently wrong about working 80 hour weeks? Instead of accepting this as the price of working in the games industry, shouldn't we expect something better? I have a buddy who works in the biz, and we've talked at length about this. As well it's a big topic with the I.G.D.A.
I think we can hope and expect better than continuing status quo.
I think we can hope and expect better than continuing status quo.
ManaByte
Gold Member
PedroLumpy said:
Ok. No more 80 hour weeks. Hope you like waiting until 2012 to play MGS4 or any other big game.
Sorry, deal with it. You can't have the game industry without crunch time. Games would take a decade to make and companies would go out of business from not having games on the shelf.
Again if you can't deal with crunch time, the industry simply is not for you.
platypotamus
Member
ManaByte said:
I don't think I've ever seen a more rubbish-filled post in my entire life. And I browse the OT.
PedroLumpy
Member
ManaByte said:
Good games naturally don't have to take decades to be finished. But yes under the current process games seem to take forever. It would definatly take a fundamental shift in how this stuff is done, but that doesn't mean that there is no other way. I'm just saying people don't have to accept this. And I'm not saying change should happen overnight either.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
Why dont they hire a few more people instead of working them 110 hours? Dumb question? I feel sorry form these people. There has got to be a better way.
platypotamus
Member
Dr. Kitty Muffins said:
These people are salary, not hourly. Hiring a few more people costs money. Unpaid overtime doesn't cost money.
LoathsomeCorpse
Member
platypotamus said:
These testers who worked 110 hours were paid hourly, though.
And I'm not sure why they didn't hire more people in this case. If they're working 110 hours, the producers have already thrown the budget out the window. It'd be cheaper to hire more people, set up multiple shifts, and have everyone work 8 hours. Completely incompetent management.
But hey, the testers probably ended up with nice bank accounts by the time it was done. And they didn't have to pay for food or lodging for two months. Not the worst situation I've heard of -- not by a long shot.
And yeah, this tester seems way too concerned with alcohol and porn. Not someone I'd want on my team.
As far as the identity of the game is concerned, these are the clues we have to work with:
- A DS game was available when he was working on the title.
- Tester worked on the game towards the beginning of the year and finished in June.
- Title was available on PS2, X-Box, and PC.
- Developer is located in southern California.
- The game has levels.
- Title was delayed due to dissatisfaction from its famous level designer.
- Publisher is in San Francisco.
A DS game being available narrows down the time frame considerably. The DS was released in the US in November of 2004, and we know he worked on the title until June. Therefore, the only years that he could have worked on it are 2005 and 2006.
One game that fits many of the clues listed above is Marc Ecko's Getting Up:
- It was a multiplatform game developed for PS2, X-Box, and PC.
- It was developed by Collective Studios, which is located in southern California (Newport Beach, specifically).
- The game has 20 levels.
- Marc Ecko is at least famous enough to have his name in the game's title.
- The game was delayed from its original release date to November of 2005, and it wasn't ultimately released until February of 2006.
- Marc Ecko admitted in an interview that he was dissatisfied with some of the game's "technical things" and that it "was not as precise" as he wanted it to be.
The only thing that doesn't fit is that the publisher of the game, Atari, is based in New York, not San Francisco, so all of this goes out the window
. Maybe the author of the piece wanted to obscure the most important piece of information about him, which is where he actually works, by claiming it to be in a location where any number of game publishers reside.
- A DS game was available when he was working on the title.
- Tester worked on the game towards the beginning of the year and finished in June.
- Title was available on PS2, X-Box, and PC.
- Developer is located in southern California.
- The game has levels.
- Title was delayed due to dissatisfaction from its famous level designer.
- Publisher is in San Francisco.
A DS game being available narrows down the time frame considerably. The DS was released in the US in November of 2004, and we know he worked on the title until June. Therefore, the only years that he could have worked on it are 2005 and 2006.
One game that fits many of the clues listed above is Marc Ecko's Getting Up:
- It was a multiplatform game developed for PS2, X-Box, and PC.
- It was developed by Collective Studios, which is located in southern California (Newport Beach, specifically).
- The game has 20 levels.
- Marc Ecko is at least famous enough to have his name in the game's title.
- The game was delayed from its original release date to November of 2005, and it wasn't ultimately released until February of 2006.
- Marc Ecko admitted in an interview that he was dissatisfied with some of the game's "technical things" and that it "was not as precise" as he wanted it to be.
The only thing that doesn't fit is that the publisher of the game, Atari, is based in New York, not San Francisco, so all of this goes out the window
. Maybe the author of the piece wanted to obscure the most important piece of information about him, which is where he actually works, by claiming it to be in a location where any number of game publishers reside.I definitely agree that those hours are insane, potentially damaging to one's health and shouldn't be tolerated, etc. If it really is that terrible, he should've quit. If he didn't have the financial resources to quit and find another job, then, well, that's not the companies fault. They're never going to learn as long as there is no consequence, and unfortunately most people aren't strong or prepared enough to react appropriately.
But the IGDA is more concerned about the quality of life for salaried employees who get no direct, guaranteed reward for their overtime and leads to the massive burn-out and turnover that's costing the industry millions.
Hiring more people is always preferable, especially when you're talking about 110 hours and the inevitable double-time pay it entails (at least in California). That said, maybe the overtime wages aren't enough "incentive" for companies to hire more people, or they just don't enough seats. Most large publishers already test in day and night shifts, so there's probably a reason they're not hiring more.
All I'm saying is, at least they get something. That doesn't make it right, but it's a lot more than I got for crunching and most everyone else in the industry. Unless they're willing to put their foot down and quit, there really isn't much else that can be done.
But the IGDA is more concerned about the quality of life for salaried employees who get no direct, guaranteed reward for their overtime and leads to the massive burn-out and turnover that's costing the industry millions.
Hiring more people is always preferable, especially when you're talking about 110 hours and the inevitable double-time pay it entails (at least in California). That said, maybe the overtime wages aren't enough "incentive" for companies to hire more people, or they just don't enough seats. Most large publishers already test in day and night shifts, so there's probably a reason they're not hiring more.
All I'm saying is, at least they get something. That doesn't make it right, but it's a lot more than I got for crunching and most everyone else in the industry. Unless they're willing to put their foot down and quit, there really isn't much else that can be done.
LoathsomeCorpse
Member
Diuretic said:One game that fits many of the clues listed above is Marc Ecko's Getting Up:
- It was a multiplatform game developed for PS2, X-Box, and PC.
- It was developed by Collective Studios, which is located in southern California (Newport Beach, specifically).
- The game has 20 levels.
- Marc Ecko is at least famous enough to have his name in the game's title.
- The game was delayed from its original release date to November of 2005, and it wasn't ultimately released until February of 2006.
- Marc Ecko admitted in an interview that he was dissatisfied with some of the game's "technical things" and that it "was not as precise" as he wanted it to be.
The only thing that doesn't fit is that the publisher of the game, Atari, is based in New York, not San Francisco, so all of this goes out the window
Actually, Getting Up doesn't seem like a bad guess. Atari's North American QA department is in the Bay Area.
HeadsUpSevenUp
Member
LoathsomeCorpse said:
Then all the clues fit! Diuretic wins!
The Hermit
Member
He, I bet his Ds game was brain training!
Edit: ... I guess not considering the time frame...
Edit: ... I guess not considering the time frame...
Ravidrath said:
Yeah, that's why I'm having some trouble trying to sympathize with this guy. California labor laws are pretty damn sweet. Especially considering the paid-for lodging and food, I would take this gig in a heartbeat. I know the game being tested probably got excruciatingly old, but people are forgetting that this "ordeal" only lasted two months. It's not back-breaking labor. Easy peasy.
Littleberu
Banned
ManaByte said:
Why are you trying to make the game industry a hard-ass place to work?
110 hours is a lot, but that story was unneccesarily long and negative. Some crunch times are worse than others. 110 hour days need not be the norm. Multiple shifts and good project management can keep the hours more reasonable and morale high.
For those asking why they don't just hire more people (which is a good solution -> moving to multiple shifts), the 'talent' isn't always there. You can put out ads for new testers, but if you don't get enough applicants, there's not much you can do. There's a finite pool of people who would make quality testers in any geographic location, and if you keep drawing on that pool, eventually it starts running dry.
For those asking why they don't just hire more people (which is a good solution -> moving to multiple shifts), the 'talent' isn't always there. You can put out ads for new testers, but if you don't get enough applicants, there's not much you can do. There's a finite pool of people who would make quality testers in any geographic location, and if you keep drawing on that pool, eventually it starts running dry.
Open Source
Banned
I did something like this when I was a tester back in 2001, and it was totally awesome. It's what eventually led to me moving up in the industry, and 1.5X and 2X pay plus food and such was great.
Compared to boot camp and military life (what I did before games), even the longest weeks were cakewalks.
Compared to boot camp and military life (what I did before games), even the longest weeks were cakewalks.
110 hours in a week for two months straight. Think about collecting every single thing, entering every single house, look at every single texture, and hear every line of dialogue in Oblivion MANY times over. How long would that take before it stops being fun? Now this was probably a shitty game, I'd go crazy too :lol :lol
lordfroakie
Member
Matthew Gallant said:
Dr. Kitty Muffins said:
1) Budgets. The gaming industry is based off that retarded model the record industry is based off of: Big blockbusters pay for all the other titles, which generally don't make much money at all (if they even profit). Keeping a tight, predictable budget is key.
2) Even if they did have the budget, good help is hard to find. Yes, you hear that testing isn't a very tough job, but you'd probably still be surprised on how difficult it is to find people that are good at it.
3) The current model works fine. So? A few people not cut out for it come online and bitch? People bitch about their jobs all the time. Does that mean every job in the universe needs to be overhauled? People that are getting into testing know what they are getting into.
Mr. Mister
Member
ManaByte said:
screw your talk of putting your time in. stop your chest pounding.
yea sometimes overtime is required, but it doesnt have to be the standard. it is about getting the team size right, communication, and project management.
also i think the author sounds like an actual cool tester and not one of the normal nerds (the lifers as someone said earlier) believe it or not some peoplei actually like hanging out with people who want to go out and socialize after work, and heaven forbid maybe drink!!!!
Kuramu
Member
rs7k said:
As i read it, the 110 hour week was only 1 particular week, not every week for 2 months.
I'd rather be the tester in this situation than the guy fixing the code. There's some stress for you... you're tired, brain is fuzzy, and it's within your power to fix a bug, but you just can't figure out why it's not working, and people are waiting. Been there, though with Flash, at 5 AM looking for for who-knows-what. And it's always something stupid and hard to see like a missing semi-colon or a capital letter in a variable or something.
Joe Molotov
Member
splattergnome said:
I'd like to go with the obvious choice, but it came out too late.
poppin fresh
Member
"You People know nothing of the crunch!"
"This is an outrage!"
"This is an outrage!"
Warm Machine
Member
I hope the same people who say that working more than 40 hours a week is stupid are not the same people who use the lazy devs comment.
MomoPufflet
Member
True story of a game tester that worked long hours one time and made me read his uneventful crappy story.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
Businesses that are run like this need to fail.