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[jmdajr]

Don't care about winning Florida?

Cool.

 

[Kathian]

The important statement;

“We’ll start taking a hard look at those to start seeing what we can do in a bipartisan way.”

Which is a pivot from his my way or the high way bluster.

 

[Drkirby]

Meeting with Ryan went well I see

Also:



Literally laughed out loud.

"President Trump, we have convinced Congress to pass the tax cuts, but our budget has only gotten worse!"

"Well, the only solution is to cut Social Security"

 

[Team Alucard]

No, it's basic been entirely disproven by modern economics. Laffer still goes around advising politicians on what the entire economics community understands is a falsehood. He's knowing peddling a crock of shit to gullible right wing lawmakers.

So you don't believe at all that there is a level of taxation that negatively impacts investment and economic growth? Cause that's basically all that the laffer curve implies.

Problem is that no one really knows what the "optimal" tax rate really is, and conservative policy makers pretend the entire left side of the curve doesn't exist thus turning it from this

to this

 

[davepoobond]

Setting themselves up for failure. It's the only way to stop government from getting to big

 

[User1608]

Such values and commitment.

 

[Fenderputty]

These entitlements yeah. Current healthcare coverage is subpar because the elderly receive Medicare and social security so they oppose any improvements for the rest of us because they already have it good. Meanwhile us pay into these entitlements and benefit not one dime off it. Go Trump, tbh

Joke post?

 

[johnsmith]

Probably will come back and say he only meant cuts for Mexicans and Muslims.

 

[Cotton McKnight]

Well I suppose if trump does not turn bout face: I could start billing the US government for the SocSec I won't receive, and then in turn I can rob Peter to pay Paul and put the former SocSec towards my kids disability???

 

[davepoobond]

Probably will come back and say he only meant cuts for Mexicans and Muslims.

Once they deport all of them it'll save so much money you see...

 

[Nomadic Sparks]

Paul Ryan talking about entitlement """"problems"""" is both homicidal urge inducing and pretty lol at the same time, considering whose altar he worshipped from before Romney picked him for VP in 2012.


I do not care for the GOP and their hidden desire to see people like me scavenge for food, shelter and money and the only way these bath salt smokers can even get erections, is to sacrifice SS/medicare/medicaid to the altar of God King Ronald Reagan and the policies of """""small government"""""

Paul Ryan is a young face on the Ronald Reaganite fascist nationalist older body. I don't trust this bath salt smoking suit wearing white boy wastoid spit fuck to do anything but try and eliminate SS/medicare/medicaid/any program that may attempt to help the impoverished and the disabled because the ghost of Ayn Rand came to him in a bath salt induced hallucination and told him the poor, the disabled, the elderly and minorties were causing America to not embrace unfettered capitalism and that empathy is for the week.

 

[CornBurrito]

"if the campaign’s tax cuts don’t achieve extraordinary budget surpluses"


When have they ever. And the last thing we want are budget surpluses, extraordinary or otherwise.

But countries work just like households. That's why surplus = good, debt = bad.

 

[Lord of Ostia]

So you don't believe at all that there is a level of taxation that negatively impacts investment and economic growth? Cause that's basically all that the laffer curve implies.

Problem is that no one really knows what the "optimal" tax rate really is, and conservative policy makers pretend the entire left side of the curve doesn't exist thus turning it from this



to this

No, I'm saying that the way Laffer portrays his curve to politicians, the conclusions he encourages from this data, are baseless.

Edit: For clarity, Laffer asserts that cutting taxes will raise revenues, because we are at the point at which taxation has become a burden to investment and economic growth. Very few economists support this assertion.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

But countries work just like households. That's why surplus = good, debt = bad.

1057% just like households. Exact match and then some. If you spot one hair's width of difference, you're thinking just wrong.

 

[thepotatoman]

So you don't believe at all that there is a level of taxation that negatively impacts investment and economic growth? Cause that's basically all that the laffer curve implies.

Problem is that no one really knows what the "optimal" tax rate really is, and conservative policy makers pretend the entire left side of the curve doesn't exist thus turning it from this



to this

That only applies to taxes that mostly affect rich people.

The laffer curve apparently doesn't exist when it comes to sales taxes.

 

[Slayven]

He does know the elderly vote like motherfuckers right?

 

[Fenderputty]

1057% just like households. Exact match and then some. If you spot one hair's width of difference, you're thinking just wrong.

Why does't the government just use the MINT application? It's helped me stay in line.

 

[Lord of Ostia]

That only applies to taxes that mostly affect rich people.

The laffer curve apparently doesn't exist when it comes to sales taxes.

Right, this is the other problem. The curve is only used to justify reductions in income tax, without consideration of other types of taxes that have to be raised in order to meet revenue demands. Exactly what has happened in Kansas, leading to an extreme increase in sales taxes and increased hardship for the average Kansan. Tax burdens could possibly impact investment and economic growth, sure. But the idea that we've hit that point, especially in a state like Kansas, is laughable.

 

[Acosta]

If you treat each piece like this like an "AHA, I GOT YOU!", you are going to be very tired by November.

 

[Silent Chief]

"if the campaign’s tax cuts don’t achieve extraordinary budget surpluses"

Trump's plan to reduce deficits is to cut revenues? I should go stay at a Trump hotel, it must be dirt cheap.

 

[mclem]

“After the administration has been in place, then we will start to take a look at all of the programs, including entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare,” said chief Trump policy adviser Sam Clovis, during an event in Washington. “We’ll start taking a hard look at those to start seeing what we can do in a bipartisan way.”

First thought:

 

[massoluk]

At least Democrats won't suffer this flipflopping labeling by itself this round.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

If you treat each piece like this like an "AHA, I GOT YOU!", you are going to be very tired by November.

This is just a Point at Bernie Stans Writing Stupid Articles About How Liberal Trump is and Laugh thread.

 

[Oblivion]

“After the administration has been in place, then we will start to take a look at all of the programs, including entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare,”

As opposed to...I dunno, maybe reversing said revenue generating tax cuts?

At least he admits there's a possibility that his stupid tax cuts won't work and old people will have to pay a price. That's something new.

 

[Aaron Strife]

They do what Paul Ryan did in 2012 and say that the cuts won't affect anyone over N age (usually around 55).

It's quite disgusting, basically pander to old people by cutting stuff that won't affect them.



I wouldn't necessarily say in large part, in 06 I think was driven by weariness over the Iraq war, Katrina, and the cluelessness of the GOP majority (Mark Foley, etc.). But yea, it was a big defeat as that was Bush's major domestic policy initiative 2nd term.

I mean don't get me wrong, it was far from the only reason. But probably a big factor in Democrats winning seniors that year 50-48, after losing them 54-46 in 2004 for a ten point swing.

 

[Silent Chief]

Problem is that no one really knows what the "optimal" tax rate really is.

Optimal for whom? In general, in areas where taxes are lower, the cost of living is higher.

If the question is, at what level of taxation does the rich stop using tax evasion schemes, the answer is way to low to generate enough revenue to run a country.

 

[Stinkles]

You have to admit, Republicans really stand by their principles and don't simply capitulate to idiotic billionaire populist racists.

They really are commendable.

 

[diffusionx]

So you don't believe at all that there is a level of taxation that negatively impacts investment and economic growth? Cause that's basically all that the laffer curve implies

The basic idea of the Laffer curve is that tax revenue is zero at 0% rate and zero at 100% rate, which is false.

A state like North Korea or the USSR effectively has/had a tax rate of 100%. Everyone works for the state (i.e. their economic output goes to the state), and is paid out a salary determined by the state which is used to buy goods that are priced by the state. Yet both states clearly have economic activity and tax revenue. Not as much as they could have, obviously, but they clearly do have economies that generate revenue for the state. The USSR had enough revenue to rapidly industrialize, build up a massive military, and even build up a successful space program. North Korea is able to build up lots of things for Kim Jong Un to look at.

I suppose theoretically there is a spot on the curve where taxes are maximized, but the reason why the Laffer curve is bullshit because there is never any attempt to find that spot. It's a bad faith argument. It's just propaganda.

FWIW I vaguely remember reading people who tried to do Laffer's work for him and find that spot and they believed it was higher than the rates we have now.

 

[Sianos]

oh!!! the prophesied trump pivot arrives!! were the increasingly nervous men right?!

oh wait

it's a pivot even further to the right

 

[Lord of Ostia]

The basic idea of the Laffer curve is that tax revenue is zero at 0% rate and zero at 100% rate, which is false.

A state like North Korea or the USSR effectively has/had a tax rate of 100%. Everyone works for the state (i.e. their economic output goes to the state), and is paid out a salary determined by the state which is used to buy goods that are priced by the state. Yet both states clearly have economic activity and tax revenue. Not as much as they could have, obviously, but they clearly do have economies that generate revenue for the state. The USSR had enough revenue to rapidly industrialize, build up a massive military, and even build up a successful space program. North Korea is able to build up lots of things for Kim Jong Un to look at.

I suppose theoretically there is a spot on the curve where taxes are maximized, but the reason why the Laffer curve is bullshit because there is never any attempt to find that spot. It's a bad faith argument. It's just propaganda.

FWIW I vaguely remember reading people who tried to do Laffer's work for him and find that spot and they believed it was higher than the rates we have now.

Thanks for the explanation, much better than I could give. My girlfriend is the economist, not me, lol. But I've sat through enough lectures on why the Laffer curve is BS, and seen the evidence of it in state government, to understand the problem.

 

[Netherscourge]

Pivot my ass.

This sounds like a Paul Ryan ultimatum to me...

He probably told Trump in that meeting they had yesterday that he has to commit to budget cutting in order to get GoP support from him.

 

[Giant Panda]

The basic idea of the Laffer curve is that tax revenue is zero at 0% rate and zero at 100% rate, which is false.

A state like North Korea or the USSR effectively has/had a tax rate of 100%. Everyone works for the state (i.e. their economic output goes to the state), and is paid out a salary determined by the state which is used to buy goods that are priced by the state. Yet both states clearly have economic activity and tax revenue. Not as much as they could have, obviously, but they clearly do have economies that generate revenue for the state. The USSR had enough revenue to rapidly industrialize, build up a massive military, and even build up a successful space program. North Korea is able to build up lots of things for Kim Jong Un to look at.

I suppose theoretically there is a spot on the curve where taxes are maximized, but the reason why the Laffer curve is bullshit because there is never any attempt to find that spot. It's a bad faith argument. It's just propaganda.

FWIW I vaguely remember reading people who tried to do Laffer's work for him and find that spot and they believed it was higher than the rates we have now.

If people are being paid any salary whatsoever then the tax rate isn't 100%. You also need to keep in mind that the Laffer curve is a simplification, a 100% rate isn't going to result in exactly zero revenue, just close to it. The concept has a lot of merit.

As a side note, I'm not sure that maximizing government revenue should be the end goal of tax policy anyway.

 

[diffusionx]

If people are being paid any salary whatsoever then the tax rate isn't 100%. You also need to keep in mind that the Laffer curve is a simplification, a 100% rate isn't going to result in exactly zero revenue, just close to it. The concept has a lot of merit.

In this context, the salary is not unlike paying for schools or hospitals (which the USSR also had). The money the employees got from the state ended up being spent on things from the state. The fact that the government provides cops doesn't mean my tax rate is lower, it's just a service the government spends tax money on.

A semicircle drawn on a cocktail napkin has no merit. It would have merit if there was a serious analytical attempt to determine what the rates should be, but that never happened. The Laffer curve was always a justification for tax cuts for the rich to push a right wing agenda. It was always propaganda, from the start.

 

[gutter_trash]

Silver spoon billionaire simply says: Fuck You Got Mine!


where are his tax returns again? hmmmm????

everyone here talking about taxes, fiscal responsibility but where is Mr. Trump's accountability on the matter of paying his share of taxes? or does just evade 'em?

 

[Nokagi]

Did the wall get smaller yet?

 

[_woLf]

this guy really was a plant for clinton the entire time

 

[MetatronM]

Silver spoon billionaire simply says: Fuck You Got Mine!


where are his tax returns again? hmmmm????

everyone here talking about taxes, fiscal responsibility but where is Mr. Trump's accountability on the matter of paying his share of taxes? or does just evade 'em?

You don't understand. Trump has the best taxes. He really really does. They're absolutely incredible, and when he's finally able to release them I think you're really gonna love 'em.

 

[Ithil]

360 degree pivot.