People can focus on more than one thing at a time. A crucial skill in times of Trump.
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Trump calls NATO "obsolete"
- Thread starter Bitch Pudding
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Chaos2Frozen
Member
I think because he said something like that already before, we know he's going to do that.
excelsiorlef
Member
They kinda go hand and hand
ErasureAcer
Banned
Russia joined forces with the USA...it's now called Rusa and NATO is obsolete.
No one is laughing except Jimmy Fallon.
Palette Swap
Member
What really doesn't help, and it's been true for some time now, is that he makes so many bullshit claims and faces so many critics that he saturates media bandwidth. There's only so many points you can report about in an international news segment. Not to mention, the more asinine propositions you make, the more likely it is that the media won't catch everything, particularly if they are foreign correspondents, essentially reporting on the local media consensus.
Most public figures are judged by a different standard, just because they peddle less bullshit and it stands out more. His high frequency madness is pretty unique.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Truth here. Nearly 1 of every 2 people in this country is your enemy. The enemy is from within.
TatteredHat
Member
Sorry AmeriGAF, you're mostly nice people, but the rate at which your government is turning hostile towards my country is not cool man.
Sidewinder
Member
Yeah I'm sure NATO didn't help keep Europe and other allies at peace and keep such crazys like Putin in check. Just imagine what his ilk would do if NATO was disbanded??
But why would Trump care, if Europe or any other place on earth not being the USA would bomb the shit out of each other?? So many business possibilities would open up, delivering arms at first and then building all them stupid countries up again, it'll be called the Trump Plan and will truly make 'merica great again!
That guy is pure cancer for the world!
But why would Trump care, if Europe or any other place on earth not being the USA would bomb the shit out of each other?? So many business possibilities would open up, delivering arms at first and then building all them stupid countries up again, it'll be called the Trump Plan and will truly make 'merica great again!
That guy is pure cancer for the world!
EU probably does need an army. No idea on the logistics of actually implementing one though. It was always a stretch that America would play world police forever. We were always truly one mad man away from the position we find ourselves in today. Not saying Trump is mad but he is erratic, why tie your futures and put your faith in a system that you can't control or influence significantly. Might be the wake up call Europe needs, this presidency. Nothing lasts forever.
Thank you racist Americans for electing someone who apparently wants to bring war back to Europe. It was getting boring, all this peace.
In all my life I've considered the US as a friend and an ally. These sound bytes make it sound like this is no longer the case. Trump lacks intelligence, strategic thinking and basic human traits like empathy. He is a disgusting piece of trash, voted in by bigots who couldn't deal with a black man in the White House, people marrying the ones they love and poc not wanting to get killed by the police.
Despite not agreeing with a lot of CDU policies, I will vote for Merkel's party in September. Anything to support and strengthen the new leader of the free world.
In all my life I've considered the US as a friend and an ally. These sound bytes make it sound like this is no longer the case. Trump lacks intelligence, strategic thinking and basic human traits like empathy. He is a disgusting piece of trash, voted in by bigots who couldn't deal with a black man in the White House, people marrying the ones they love and poc not wanting to get killed by the police.
Despite not agreeing with a lot of CDU policies, I will vote for Merkel's party in September. Anything to support and strengthen the new leader of the free world.
MisterFalcon
Member
If the EU would start now you may end up with a credible force in 10 years. As it stands now the EU armies are a husk that are mostly jobs programs for staff officers and a few thousand actual troops that are combat capable. Or what is left of the combat troops, many have quit after going on pointless peacekeeping missions to help people who hate them, combat an enemy without being allowed to kill them and being second guessed every step of the way by politicians and the press. Soft Power was supposed to be the future, not those crude weapons favored by the Yankee cowboys.
As Romano Prodi once said in the early 2000s, the EU was to be
http://www.foet.org/global/ED/The Washington Post- October 31 2004.pdf
And with this goal in mind the countries' militaries have been firmly set in the low end of the violence spectrum as they say.
Being a member of NATO and asking NATO for help without being a member are two different things.
In that regard, though i understand where you are heading with this, NATO will come to the aid of a country like Finland, but won't do some for Ukraine. You do the math.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Some of it, yes. But that would depend on how much the US wants to retain its capability to project its force.
"You see, even Russia agrees with me, ok? So smart, these russians!"
Imperfected
Member
No.
There's basically no chance of military spending reduction under a Republican government. The military contracts account for too much of how they funnel money into friends and benefactors, and they've spent too much time and energy making it a party-defining policy position, particularly in the post-9/11 era.
You would just see Trump using the "rise" of a European "boogeyman" as an excuse for armament and posturing. He'd probably say something witless about Napoleon and use it as an excuse for military build-up and larger armament contracts for the UAE or something asinine like that.
Melon Husk
Member
Putin playing the western world like a fiddle. First Brexit and now this.
CyclopsRock
Member
You think Putin orchestrated the Brexit vote?
SuperEpicMan
Banned
I think he would have tried to influence the result of it.
Melon Husk
Member
I wouldn't go that far. Seperating UK from EU has been their agenda for 15 years. Maybe the fiddle is playing itself but we can't tell for sure because Putin's not letting go of the damn fiddle.
Did he just call himself obsolete as well?
sechsterangriff
Member
I wonder if this will have the opposite effect on European countries and we actually start committing more resources to NATO and start integrating even more towards a unified defense strategy. These words must be ringing alarms across European political and military leaders.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I'm not sure if putting more money into NATO is wise when the leader of the main nation behind the alliance may have been compromised by Russian/is clearly impaired. I'd rather have further integration/more funding of the current European armies.
michaelius
Banned
I'm super glad he said that.
Hopefully this will be shock that was needed to push Western Europe into action and they actually start taking care of their armies seriously and not just depend whole on USA for protection
Germany, UK, France are economic superpowers and they alone should be able to muster standing armies big enough to stop Russian invasion for months. Then there's another three 35+ millions people countries with Poland, Spain and Italy. And dozens of smaller ones.
If every European country took their Nato duties seriously and with no need for any long range projection of power like USA needs European part of Nato defence force should be self sufficient against paper tiger like modern Russian army.
Hopefully this will be shock that was needed to push Western Europe into action and they actually start taking care of their armies seriously and not just depend whole on USA for protection
Germany, UK, France are economic superpowers and they alone should be able to muster standing armies big enough to stop Russian invasion for months. Then there's another three 35+ millions people countries with Poland, Spain and Italy. And dozens of smaller ones.
If every European country took their Nato duties seriously and with no need for any long range projection of power like USA needs European part of Nato defence force should be self sufficient against paper tiger like modern Russian army.
Ether_Snake
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Ukip, Murdoch, are.
If they do anything it'll be a push on Mariupol to create a land bridge to Crimea using the same little green men as they did 2 years ago. I'd be surprised if they went all out for Kiev as that would rouse the international community, rather they'll keep Ukraine destabilised so it can never join NATO.
ConfirmationBiased
Banned
What? No.
Do you know anything about Poland? It is the most anti-Putin, anti-Russian country in the EU. The Soviet years are fresh in everyone's memory and the current president believes Russia killed his brother, who was also president.
Sure the developments in Poland are worrying, but let's not pretend all (semi-)authoritarian governments are on the same team now. Poland will resist Russia to the end of the world.
It's amazing how powerful Murdoch is, one could even say more powerful than a US president except he doesn't have nukes.
Tomorrow Never Dies
Ether_Snake
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Can Trump remove sanctions through executive action?
dragonelite
Member
If the EU can work through this and if that happens, then yes, definitely. I don't know if all Americans have realised this yet, but this guy is rocking all the pillars the US built for the last 100 years that made it such a global power.
Read up on his newest interviews on trade. The US has its biggest trade deficits with these entities in order: China, EU, Germany, Japan, Mexico. Those are (Japan to a lesser extent, but it would get hit hard through China anyway) exactly the countries he basically threatened with a trade war. He never mentions Canada, but when he attacks NAFTA, it's what he means. But these are all very important markets and allies. I'm really not sure what would happen if he even turns half of what he says into reality.
ShiroAmakusa
Member
I can second that. Don't know about the Millennials but at least my generation, which experienced the communist era in Poland, has no love for Russia. I've witnessed things only my (future) shrink gets to hear. >.<
Sure, if his goal was to name and shame those countries that consistently fall short of the 2% mark then that would be reasonable (and overdue as it's not right that so many NATO members coast without really paying to remain a useful part of the alliance. He could have gotten that message across much better without the antagonistic BS and the comments about the EU crumbling, etc..., however.
I'm with Poland.
CyclopsRock
Member
I assume there's a typo there, but either way it's worth remembering that whilst The Sun campaigned for Leave, The Times campaigned for Remain.
Bitch Pudding
Member
It's not easy to implement those for him. First, he would have to cancel most WTO agreements, and in the case of Mexico, get rid of NAFTA contracts. And the congress would have to ratify those at the end.
I don't see how Trump's plans fit into any Republican agenda.
LegendofJoe
Member
If NATO falls apart how fast will your leaders move to get nuclear weapons? I imagine it has to at least be on their minds, if they haven't actually started the planning process to make it happen.
This has already come up and it's kind of crazy. It could happen pretty quickly, probably within months, and it could escalate things to the brink of war, too.
You just need to get a EU cooperation deal done with France as a "nuclear patron", because most European countries signed this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferation_of_Nuclear_Weapons
Interesting times ahead...
Vicetrailia
Banned
So what are Trumps end goals again?
Well legally for germany it's not that easy (Not to mention that the german public is against it) since we signed the anti nuke treaty aswell as the two plus four treaty requires germany not to develop nuclear, biological or chemical weapons.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...y-bot-deutschland-atomwaffen-an-a-505887.html
France actually offered Germany to take part in their nuclear program before under Sarkozy, but Germany refused. Pretty sure you don't break any treaties with such a solution.
DragonSworne
Banned
He wants to become Prime Puppet of Russia.
Germany already is defacto a nuclear power since the americans would let us use their nukes in case of a war thanks to the "Nukleare Teilhabe".
Most Germans don't know about this because public opinion is still anti nukes.
Yeah and that's exactly the option European countries have. Replace or extend this NATO program with their own if they have or want to.
To make oil companies and himself a fuckton of money.
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