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Trump Fires James Comey

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Cross-posting from PoliGAF, since I know this thread is super active:

So, now that Trump has made so many enemies this week alone with his actions, that it's now a matter of "when" he goes down, instead of "if" he goes down...

I just want to know how deep the rabbit hole goes, and who else is a part of this elaborate scheme to ruin us from within? The FBI's RICO raid on the GOP fundraising headquarters, and the probe into Paul Manafort's finances and Trump's casinos has really captured my interest here. What are the odds that multiple GOP politicians are knowingly having their SuperPACS funded via illegal money laundered by the Russian Mob/The Kremlin? Who paid who, who took favors from who, who enacted Russian-favorable public policy?

It might seem kinda farfetched due to the pure ridiculousness of the whole ordeal, but reality is so much stranger than fiction that I'm surprised we haven't figured out a way to make pigs fly at this point. We might not only be looking at the collapse of the Trump administration... depending on how deep this RICO case goes, and how much longer Republicans continue to gaslight for Trump, we might actually witness the systemic collapse of a political party that, en masse, sold out to a foreign entity for the sake of power and riches.

It's actually kind of exciting, and would be entertaining if it didn't mean that we're watching the collapse of our democracy in real time. Depending on how deep this is, our country could fundamentally transform seemingly overnight.
I've been wondering about this for a while. If Russia has gone this far in infiltrating the government, then there may be a number of people in Congress that are compromised as well. Don't forget the leaks a few months back of the intelligence community realizing that Russia pretty much knows everything and assumed leakers among Trump and co.

Trump, Sessions, Manafort, Page, etc. didn't interact with each other before Trump ran for president and likely were compromised by Russia independently. Which makes me wonder how many others they may have compromised in the US Government. Let's also not overlook his chief strategist, alongside Bannon, Stephen Miller. He worked for Michelle Bachman and then worked with Sessions from 2009 onwards. They even developed their own plan of "nation-state populism". Given his closeness with Sessions, I wouldn't be surprised if Miller has been compromised too. He also attacked Maya Angelou for being too racially paranoid. Not too mention this gem:


Stephen Miller said:
Our opponents, the media and the whole world will soon see as we begin to take further actions, that the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned
 
Slightly off topic but what's going on over at Reddit? Every trump post or political post, the top comment is always pro trump and mostly brain dead or just outright false.

They must be working over time for daddy.
 

numble

Member
as i said. i question if there will even be elections. the us political system is getting ignored by trump and he is just testing with what he can get away with at this point. if republicans dont stop him now he may as well declare the united states of trump, an absolute monarchy.
Elections are run by the states. They need to elect governors and state politicians after all. How would Trump stop an election from being held in California, for instance?
 

mAcOdIn

Member
I seriously don't think Trump, especially a large swath of government Republicans are outright compromised by the Russians. Sorry. Don't see it. Sorta don't want to see it really.

Or to flip it around I think we need to reevaluate what we believe to be compromised to begin with. This is a new era than that of 50 years ago. First off people in politics generally have money. People with money generally no longer have all their financial interests in any single country. People who come into power in the government who didn't already have money, well they get money then and then they too begin to have global interests. Shit, as an ordinary citizen I'd like to have my dealings diversified if I had the money beyond what little international funds I have in my 401k. Finding a politician whom you couldn't say "follow the money" to as an insult implying they're bought by foreign interests is a hard task these days, finding a politician who neither s/he nor their inner circle has foreign interests, I'd be willing to bet that's near impossible. And unfortunately, in a way, it's going to just get increasingly harder and harder. I say "in a way" because I think it's generally this flow of money internationally that's staved off a lot of the strife we'd have likely seen had the countries of the world stay more closed. On the flip side, this is the prologue to those bleak futuristic settings where the worlds run by international mega-corporations rather than governments.

For sure you're not going to find many CEOs turned politicians that aren't seemingly influenced by global powers, by nature anyone in the political sphere's going to have lots of "questionable" contact with foreigners. This is our new normal.

And so while I think many of the same criticisms and claims of being compromised could be thrown at Hillary or many other politicians just as easily as Trump the key difference with him is that he's obviously not playing the game right. To not really divesting himself, to blatantly using the office to increase his own business to threatening investigations directed at him. You can say what you want about things like the Clinton Foundation, but two things matter, in my opinion, more than simply taking foreign money. Intent and the desire, or at least the public appearance of that desire as I can never truly know what's in another person's heart, to stay above board. Trump fails at both of that. So Clinton takes some money from some shitty countries for her charity, so her family's enriched themselves after being in office, this is true. She's not a monk, but how many people wouldn't take care of themselves as well? You can point to actual things her foundation has done. Contrast that to Trump who even before taking office was by and large a fucking conman, whether it be his "university" or his shitty charity you could tell he wasn't making money while trying to do something but just doing shit to make himself money. And again compare that to Clinton's general openness regarding her foundation, who they deal with, where the money goes, the fact that Obama and her party did let investigations into her run their courses, many fucking times over, and again look at Trump who doesn't want to tolerate investigations, doesn't want to release financial statements of his charity nor his own tax returns.

I always got annoyed with conservatives in my area calling Hillary crooked and yet supporting Donald Trump. I don't know how to quantify "crooked" anymore. Every politician will surely stand to gain financially from holding office. The Clintons did and will continue to do so until they die. Trump's doing the same thing and if he weren't so fucking bad at being President he'd probably increase his wealth immeasurably, who knows now at this point though lol. They've both taken foreign money. Just using the same metric of crookedness they apply to Hillary Trump's in a whole different league of crookedness. So clearly the real issue's not being crooked but either one of judgement or just basic teamsport bullshit. Since Trump always came off as a con artist I assume the real issue was always just partisan bullshit.

But this is why I'm wary of these generalizations that a whole political party's bought by a foreign power. Honestly I think Israel's bought more people than Russia ever could and no-one's clamoring to throw those American traitors in Congress in jail for selling out to that foreign power. And for awhile having financial ties to Russia'd not even be a thing, really, until they invaded Ukraine most people'd not give two shits. Turkey's one of our closest allies and not really until Erdogan going half dictator would anyone care about them paying people. It's weird how the wind's changed so fast.

Most importantly though, I don't know where we go from here. I'm definitely ok with politicians having never worked for a foreign power nor taken money from one, or business entities with close ties but I'm thinking more realistically we're going to have to generally accept some ties from this point on unless we're seriously expecting all candidates from this point on to be everyday Joe the Plumbers with no political experience nor international dealings. And while that does have a certain charm to it I'm not entirely sure it's better than what we have now.

But back to Trump, I think again his biggest sin will be the obviousness of it all more than what he's actually done. Clearly even if he had fully divested himself of everything he'd still truly stand to gain financially from being President, the idea that you could make all those connections, start with a large sum of money(since he'd have sold all his dealings and companies or transferred them to some other kind of holdings) even if he couldn't profit immediately as President day one out of office you know he'd be making bigger bank than ever if he weren't a total moron. Ethics are hard. I don't know that we posses a truly failsafe method of keeping government employees from not benefiting from their position but the one constant among most of them is that they at least try to put on an air of respectability regarding themselves and their position and it's that modicum of dignity towards their office or profession that we can somewhat properly judge. I don't know if Flynn, Trump or anyone was truly "influenced" by any of their dealings with others, they could 100% be simple business deals that at the end of the day mean nothing. I have no idea if Flynn has any care in the world what happens to Turkey or Russia with Trump. They may not be able to care less once they've cashed the checks. That's sorta how this new era of capitalism's supposed to work. Even you or I can jump to different companies and not be considered industrial espionage agents from the start, it's expected that our era with that company's over and now we're with the new one. But these people, whether they've truly colluded are not are acting guilty as fuck. They certainly don't carry themselves or represent their positions or office with any sort of dignity and worst of all they clearly don't believe the general public at large even has a right to know what they've done or are doing now. I believe that's the biggest wrong doing they could do.

Even if Trump's innocent I don't believe his actions should be allowed to stand, I don't think the President should be able to project an air of being above the law, whether he's broken it or not, because that drags down the entire Presidency. I do not believe the President can be allowed to seemingly pressure existing investigations into himself or his allies, whether those investigations have any merit or not because that undermines the strength of our check's and balances. For these alone I think Trump should be impeached and that's without even taking into consideration whether he's actually guilty of collusion with a foreign power to influence the election or not.

For the GOP as a whole, unfortunately I think they're just putting party over country. I don't think they're mostly bought by anyone but what it does show is you don't have to fucking buy them all anyways, just the fucking front runners, the party'll circle the wagons to protect anyone with a R in front of their name regardless of what they've done.
 

HeatBoost

Member
I seriously don't think Trump, especially a large swath of government Republicans are outright compromised by the Russians. Sorry. Don't see it. Sorta don't want to see it really.

Putting aside whether or not they are literally Russian puppets, I think that if there is significant Russian influence in US affairs starting around the time of the election (which seems kinda likely) it's less about creating a puppet state and more increasing the level of dysfunction within the US.

Like, Putin doesn't literally need some Tom Clancy shit for this to work to their benefit (or at least, to give him a feeling of schadenfreude so intense it FEELS like it's working for his benefit). The weakening of NATO is to his benefit. The US looking stupid is to his benefit. The US not caring about human rights as much anymore is to his (and China's) benefit.

To put in the terms of the internet goobers who were tickled pink at Trumps's election, it is beneficial for Russia to troll the US because the less on-top-of-things the country is, the less influence we have, which is more influence for everyone else, particularly for places that are hungry for it like Russia. And BOY HOWDY it seems to be working so far. If the government was barely functional before Trump got into the White House, now... woo. Imagine if there's some sort of natural or economic national crisis.

I could honestly see things turning into a less-aesthetically-pleasing dystopia before this all hashes out.
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Putting aside whether or not they are literally Russian puppets, I think that if there is significant Russian influence in US affairs starting around the time of the election (which seems kinda likely) it's less about creating a puppet state and more increasing the level of dysfunction within the US.

Like, Putin doesn't literally need some Tom Clancy shit for this to work to their benefit (or at least, to give him a feeling of schadenfreude so intense it FEELS like it's working for his benefit). The weakening of NATO is to his benefit. The US looking stupid is to his benefit. The US not caring about human rights as much anymore is to his (and China's) benefit.

To put in the terms of the internet goobers who were tickled pink at Trumps's election, it is beneficial for Russia to troll the US because the less on-top-of-things the country is, the less influence we have, which is more influence for everyone else, particularly for places that are hungry for it like Russia. And BOY HOWDY it seems to be working so far. If the government was barely functional before Trump got into the White House, now... woo. Imagine if there's some sort of natural or economic national crisis.

I could honestly see things turning into a less-aesthetically-pleasing dystopia before this all hashes out.
I agree, however to me this poses a problem as I don't think Russia even needs to do anything sketchy anymore. Honestly before the election I talked about Trump a lot at work, a lot of people liked him because he was an isolationist, well seemingly anyways. A lot of people I know, without Russian influence, don't like money going to the UN, NATO or us playing world police(not that I think we actually are to begin with). Now, of course if you're Russia that's a great candidate! My issue is this, I don't think Russia implanted those thoughts into my coworkers heads nor had the Russian stuff really started yet, so my problem is, well, question I guess is, should that kind of viewpoint or campaign rhetoric be banned? Well, maybe not banned but, how do I put it, shunned and not funded?

Like, I feel like Trump's campaign and Russian hacking and fake news/bot trolling are sorta separate things. Much as I hate to say it I'm not sure someone with Trump's views shouldn't be allowed to win because it happens to play into another country's hands, if a majority of the population did want to be isolationists then Russian financial backing or not, is that really a problem with Russia or a problem with our populace?

And the real problem here is Russia doesn't really need to collude with anyone here to get their wish and that's a problem we're going to have to learn to live with because good luck regulating the internet for shit.

I'm not even wanting to dismiss the investigation into Trump because I do feel that Americans do need to know the tactics used but the problem comes from what do we do with that information? Lets say Americans knew Russia was influencing the election then and that Trump being elected did benefit Russia, should we have expected Trump supporters to not vote for Trump..... to spite Russia? I just don't really know where we go from here.

Of course I'd like it if just the stupid nationalist/isolationist, racist really, sentiment just didn't exist or wasn't popular enough to be taken seriously let alone win but provided it is just what can I reasonably expect the populace to do knowing that information?
 

slit

Member
as i said. i question if there will even be elections. the us political system is getting ignored by trump and he is just testing with what he can get away with at this point. if republicans dont stop him now he may as well declare the united states of trump, an absolute monarchy.

They're not stopping the elections! You're letting your imagination take over. Even though it was a completely idiotic move, Trump does have the authority to fire the FBI director. The president has always had that power. In this case, his authority to act has blown up in his face. The very small win he got for his healthcare bill is now completely shattered. This is a huge fuck up, even for Trump.
 

Jaeyden

Member
Was Trump referring to the Pee "Tapes"?






Surely I'm not the first to think this....but I ain't looking through a billion pages.
 
A lot of people I know, without Russian influence, don't like money going to the UN, NATO or us playing world police(not that I think we actually are to begin with). Now, of course if you're Russia that's a great candidate! My issue is this, I don't think Russia implanted those thoughts into my coworkers heads nor had the Russian stuff really started yet, so my problem is, well, question I guess is, should that kind of viewpoint or campaign rhetoric be banned? Well, maybe not banned but, how do I put it, shunned and not funded?

Like, I feel like Trump's campaign and Russian hacking and fake news/bot trolling are sorta separate things. Much as I hate to say it I'm not sure someone with Trump's views shouldn't be allowed to win because it happens to play into another country's hands, if a majority of the population did want to be isolationists then Russian financial backing or not, is that really a problem with Russia or a problem with our populace?

Of course I'd like it if just the stupid nationalist/isolationist, racist really, sentiment just didn't exist or wasn't popular enough to be taken seriously let alone win but provided it is just what can I reasonably expect the populace to do knowing that information?

The problem isn't isolationism. It's using isolationism to lead people down the path of embracing the worst elements of their humanity. Tribalism, dehumanizing of others, paranoia, fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

The problem is not freedom of the internet. It's using the freedom of the internet to exploit people's willingness to accept alternative facts that reinforce their prejudices. One of the things that I strongly disagree with James Clapper is his recommendation to use counter-propaganda on Americans. That is incredibly dangerous because it can be exploited by Trump and his enablers.

The goal of Russia is not just to have a leader of America that is an isolationist. It's also to sew the seeds of division among the population such that there is no tenable middle ground. It's to have American institutions get in a dog fight and drag everyone down. It's to undermine the very checks and balances that separate the United States from a de facto dictatorship like Russia. Trump is the perfect disease for this because we don't have any antibodies for someone like him.
 

Fuck yeah, my faith is finally starting to rise again.

this-is-beautiful.gif
 
It might seem kinda farfetched due to the pure ridiculousness of the whole ordeal, but reality is so much stranger than fiction that I'm surprised we haven't figured out a way to make pigs fly at this point. We might not only be looking at the collapse of the Trump administration... depending on how deep this RICO case goes, and how much longer Republicans continue to gaslight for Trump, we might actually witness the systemic collapse of a political party that, en masse, sold out to a foreign entity for the sake of power and riches.

It's actually kind of exciting, and would be entertaining if it didn't mean that we're watching the collapse of our democracy in real time. Depending on how deep this is, our country could fundamentally transform seemingly overnight.

I don't see how the Republicans survive after this clown. No apology will ever be acceptable. Besides, what candidate could they possibly offer up to follow this asshole?
 

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.

Love seeing these.

Two possible theories why the GOP seems "unworried"
1. They think this is just a minority as "only angry people go to Town Halls" while the satisfied stay at home pretending nothing is wrong.
2. They've convinced themselves Soros paid for it, they just don't say it because the last guy that did got so much blowback that he's quitting instead of running in 2018.

Or they're extremely worried, hard to say with these assholes.
 
Love seeing these.

Two possible theories why the GOP seems "unworried"
1. They think this is just a minority as "only angry people go to Town Halls" while the satisfied stay at home pretending nothing is wrong.
2. They've convinced themselves Soros paid for it, they just don't say it because the last guy that did got so much blowback that he's quitting instead of running in 2018.

Or they're extremely worried, hard to say with these assholes.
Polling still seems to show high levels of support among Republican voters. Like mid 80% levels of support.

So yeah they're probably telling themselves that these people complaining are the vocal minority or that these people aren't from their district.
 

gcubed

Member
Polling still seems to show high levels of support among Republican voters. Like mid 80% levels of support.

So yeah they're probably telling themselves that these people complaining are the vocal minority or that these people aren't from their district.

If they lose the GA special election they will all be shitting their pants. Ossof winning will be a seat pickup, but will halt all legislation until after the midterms
 

RDreamer

Member
Well this better continues until they freaking act or you guys are in such a weird course.

It won't. Not because people aren't angry but because Republicans are largely not going to do town halls. My congressman is refusing, calling it "political theater." They say these angry constituents are just organized outside agitators and hand wave the whole thing.
 
It won't. Not because people aren't angry but because Republicans are largely not going to do town halls. My congressman is refusing, calling it "political theater." They say these angry constituents are just organized outside agitators and hand wave the whole thing.

So they deflect the criticism ?
Never good if you plan to stick to your post
 
Hey, at least this means they've realized then dun fucked up. Took 3 days, though! Trump always watches those shows, so it'll be entertaining to imagine him sitting around watching everyone rip him to pieces with no one defending him.

Oh my, Pat Buchanan on CNN talking about how important it is to tape things in the Oval Office.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
HUMONGOUS wall of text with a decent point and a couple of falsehoods - like, "nobody is talking about Israel."


Look, I don't think anyone is seriously claiming that the entire GOP has been infiltrated, any more than the entire Penn State organization is composed of pederasts. The point is that you don't have to corrupt every component of an organization, just the leadership - the party at this point the corrupts itself through inaction and worse, enabling and protecting and defending this stuff.

Trump may be mentally ill. He at least has a very serious personality disorder. But he should never have been nominated, let alone elected. The GOP's strength comes from monolithic behavior and leader compulsion. They respond to authority and then toe the party line.

The reason the democrats can't use a single message and discipline during elections is not the party - it's the voters. Certainly they can align around a simple message, but they're not monolithic and they're not stupid. A Trump would fail within the Democratic Party. He succeeds in the GOP because ultimately they've abandoned reality anyway - their economic ideas are forty years of proven nonsense. It's a money grab. They get power, drop taxes and regulations, fail and get booted out. Rinse, repeat.
 

Kite

Member
Slightly off topic but what's going on over at Reddit? Every trump post or political post, the top comment is always pro trump and mostly brain dead or just outright false.

They must be working over time for daddy.
lol I'm gonna need to see those receipts, maybe you're hanging out on r/thedonald? I'm looking at the top posts in r/politics and seeing stuff like:

GhostFish 2701 points 12 hours ago
This is Putin intentionally fucking with and humiliating Trump. Either Trump is too incompetent to recognize the optics, or he's under Putin's thumb.
Either way, this is a national embarrassment and Putin is laughing his ass off.

[–]o511 384 points 9 hours ago
Every representative has to answer a simple question: Do you support this presidency?
If no, what are you doing to oppose it? If yes, then come out and say it. All Americans need to remember their representative's answers and hold those who supported Trump accountable.

[–]SpitfireDesigns 5227 points 15 hours ago
This is the best idea Trump has ever had, strongly support him making a fool of himself every two weeks.

[–]Whitey_Bulger 3009 points 19 hours ago*
Here's a formal request for the tapes from Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-IL), a member of the House Oversight Committee, to the White House Counsel.
Edit: Letter from Reps. Conyers and Cummings, also to the WH Counsel, and a letter from all 17 House Dems on the Judiciary Committee to its Chairman, to request hearings on the Comey matter.
 

KingV

Member
Polling still seems to show high levels of support among Republican voters. Like mid 80% levels of support.

So yeah they're probably telling themselves that these people complaining are the vocal minority or that these people aren't from their district.

Compared to historical presidencies, mid 80s is trash. Bush and Obama both had 90%+ at this point.
 
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