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[massoluk]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-says-u-s-losing-afghan-war-tense-meeting-generals-n789006

During the July 19 meeting, Trump repeatedly suggested that Defense Secretary James Mattis and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Joseph Dunford replace Gen. John Nicholson, the commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan, because he is not winning the war, the officials said. Trump has not met Nicholson, and the Pentagon has been considering extending his time in Afghanistan.

Over nearly two hours in the situation room, Trump complained about NATO allies, inquired about the United States getting a piece of Afghan’s mineral wealth and repeatedly said the top U.S. general there should be fired.

Trump vented to his national security team that the veterans told him forces from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization have not been helpful, and he lamented that China is making money off of Afghanistan's estimated $1 trillion in rare minerals while American troops are fighting the war, officials said. Trump expressed frustration that his advisers tasked with figuring out how the U.S. can help American businesses get rights to those minerals were moving too slowly, one official said.

China purchased mineral rights in Afghanistan a decade ago, investment the U.S. supported at the time. Beijing has since had teams mining copper outside of Kabul.

Trump told his advisers that the restaurant, Manhattan's elite '21' Club, had shut its doors for a year and hired an expensive consultant to craft a plan for a renovation.After a year, Trump said, the consultant's only suggestion was that the restaurant needed a bigger kitchen.
"“We aren't winning. … We are losing.”"

Officials said Trump kept stressing the idea that lousy advice cost the owner a year of lost business and that talking to the restaurant's waiters instead might have yielded a better result. He also said the tendency is to assume if someone isn't a three-star general he doesn't know what he's talking about, and that in his own experience in business talking to low-ranking workers has gotten him better outcomes.

Trump left the national security meeting without making a decision on a strategy. His advisers were stunned, administration officials and others briefed on the meeting said.

Two Pentagon officials close to Mattis said he returned from the White House that morning visibly upset. Mattis often takes a walk when grappling with an issue. That afternoon, the walk took longer than usual, the officials said.

This man is clearly fit to run a war.

 

[Slayven]

If we have a serious conflict he is going to get so many people killed

 

[Ponn]

It's amazing how blatant he is with war pillaging for profit but no one calls him on it.

 

[rjinaz]

If we have a serious conflict he is going to get so many people killed

I think you mean Hillary and Obama.

Somehow...

 

[RoyaleDuke]

So, he thinks talking to Gomer Pyle will help military strategy?

Why am I not surprised?

 

[BackLogJoe]

Afghanistan and a restaurant.

This is our president.

 

[commedieu]

He shat on a three star general.

I imagine what he thinks of grunts isn't flattering either.

 

[Trickster]

Complete raving lunatic.

 

[Loxley]

He also said the tendency is to assume if someone isn't a three-star general he doesn't know what he's talking about, and that in his own experience in business talking to low-ranking workers has gotten him better outcomes.

Our Commander in Chief, ladies and gentlemen -_-

 

[BronsonLee]

He's basically going to get ignored soon, isn't he

 

[Aselith]

inquired about the United States getting a piece of Afghan’s mineral wealth

Think of all the border walls we could build if we just stole their national resources? Why did we even invade them if not you plunder their lands?

Bigly!

 

[Aaron Strife]

...are we at war in Afghanistan? Obama declared the combat mission over, but I know we have residual troops. Does that count as being at war?

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Nothing Trump say or does surprises me any more.

 

[Xando]

Over nearly two hours in the situation room, Trump complained about NATO allies

Continue like you do and they won’t be your allies anymore soon.

Will be quite funny when Trump and the GOP try to start some shit in Iran and have to go at it alone because NATO allies can’t be arsed to die there to get called freeloaders

 

[Fury451]

Mattis not punching him in the face is a remarkable display of restraint

 

[Ryuukan]

so GOP pundits let me ask you
are US army generals now the "enemy" too

 

[Imperfected]

It's amazing how blatant he is with war pillaging for profit but no one calls him on it.

The problem is convincing him that Afghanistan is built on a mountain of gold was the only way we could get him to pay attention to the need to deal with Afghanistan's issues to begin with.

We've been outfoxed by the toddler.

 

[RustyNails]

Our Commander in Chief, ladies and gentlemen -_-

He talks to low level employees everywhere to get their suggestions because he does not have the capacity to think like a leader or talk to one.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

He's basically going to get ignored soon, isn't he

it has begun

 

[Peccavi]

Trump will listen to anyone as long as they tell him what he wants to hear.

 

[jellies_two]

What's the Venn diagram of 3 star generals who are also waiters and low ranking staff? because it sounds like that's where his mind is at.

 

[ken_matthews]

He also said the tendency is to assume if someone isn't a three-star general he doesn't know what he's talking about, and that in his own experience in business talking to low-ranking workers has gotten him better outcomes.

That is actually a surprisingly aware statement about institutional dysfunction and the common disconnect between management and workers. I am surprised Trump thinks like that. On the other hand, I hope he does not routinely dismiss real expertise and experience, because you can read that statement two ways.

 

[Savitar]

Suppose those are the types of people that won't kiss your ass. So naturally it won't help dealing with Trump.

 

[Shoeless]

So basically, North Korea, is like the 21 Club, and... My God... you guys are going so going to get into a war before this presidential administration is up...

 

[AYF 001]

so GOP pundits let me ask you
are US army generals now the "enemy" too

Only the peace-loving liberal ones who also won't ban transgender troops.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Goddamn it Mueller, hurry!

 

[Belker]

"...and that in his own experience in business talking to low-ranking workers has gotten him better outcomes."

This is actually a good point. Front line staff know what customers are complaining about and understand the ins and outs of day-to-day work in ways that managers don't.

I've got an idea for a James Franco and Seth Rogen film, where they play waiters kidnapped and parachuted behind enemy lines in a fictional middle-eastern country; let's call it Drumpfistan.

 

[Fury451]

That is actually a surprisingly aware statement about institutional dysfunction and the common disconnect between management and workers. I am surprised Trump thinks like that. On the other hand, I hope he does not routinely dismiss real expertise and experience, because you can read that statement two ways.

True. It's actually something of a keen insight that's vital for the linke between employee and management to improve...in a business.

Trump treats everything from that frame of reference which is going to get a lot of people killed if he doesn't listen to people who actually know what the fuck they're talking about

 

[Yamauchi]

It's not possible for the US to win the war in Afghanistan. The best path forward is to attempt a settlement with the Taliban that ensures they will not provide safe haven or support for international jihadists.

 

[Froyo Love]

so GOP pundits let me ask you
are US army generals now the "enemy" too

The Deep State goes ever deeper. I'm sure Alex Jones can tell us more.

 

[grandjedi6]

Trump's continued disbelief that all of the country's problems aren't easily solved is embarrassing yet unsurprising.

 

[Dr.Acula]

it has begun

It was great when Trump announced the "Transgender Ban" and the response was basically, "Let us know via the proper channels and we'll see what we can do."

Trump literally doesn't know who to call or how to draft an order or who to send it to.

We might need to have that guy with the nuclear football just standing around the corner with earbuds in.

 

[ken_matthews]

True. It's actually something of a keen insight that's vital for the linke between employee and management to improve...in a business.

Trump treats everything from that frame of reference which is going to get a lot of people killed if he doesn't listen to people who actually know what the fuck they're talking about

Well his business perspective is all he knows. And I think you can make a compelling argument that a business paradigm is an inappropriate frame of reference for organizing the government and implementing policy. So you may be right, but as somebody who works with and around a lot of military officers, I can promise you that rank != competence.

 

[Shard]

He's basically going to get ignored soon, isn't he

Already happening.

 

[GK86]

Imagine him making decisions during a war conflict like he makes up his mind about Obamacare?

On Obamacare:

"Repeal and replace!"
"Let it implode!"
"Just repeal now, replace later!"
"Repeal and replace!!"
"Better to let it implode."
"Replace it now!

War conflict:

"Attack the eastern front."
"Forget the eastern front, we will attack from the south."
"Actually, the eastern front is better."
"No retreat!"
"Retreat!"

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

That is actually a surprisingly aware statement about institutional dysfunction and the common disconnect between management and workers. I am surprised Trump thinks like that. On the other hand, I hope he does not routinely dismiss real expertise and experience, because you can read that statement two ways.

I think it just means his low level employees aren't professional ass kissers like he loves, and he's more likely to have gotten an honest opinion from them.

 

[Angelus Errare]

so GOP pundits let me ask you
are US army generals now the "enemy" too

Replace the neoliberal deep state traitorous generals with American patriots in the heartland! MAGERZ!

 

[Raven117]

The more ignoring the top officials do the better for our country. This will also further infuriate Trump and either fire everybody (leading to his impeachment), take extreme action (leading to impeachment)....

This is going to get worse before it gets better.

 

[Netherscourge]

Are we even at war in Afghanistan anymore?

 

[Dan]

Trump's bad memory and penchant for wild exaggeration know no limits.

Trump told his advisers that the restaurant, Manhattan's elite '21' Club, had shut its doors for a year and hired an expensive consultant to craft a plan for a renovation. After a year, Trump said, the consultant's only suggestion was that the restaurant needed a bigger kitchen.

Officials said Trump kept stressing the idea that lousy advice cost the owner a year of lost business and that talking to the restaurant's waiters instead might have yielded a better result. He also said the tendency is to assume if someone isn't a three-star general he doesn't know what he's talking about, and that in his own experience in business talking to low-ranking workers has gotten him better outcomes.

The '21' Club, which has been one of Trump's favorite New York spots, closed for two months in 1987 while it underwent a full renovation and reopened to great fanfare.

 

[Cat Party]

It's amazing how blatant he is with war pillaging for profit but no one calls him on it.

Yup.

 

[curiouscharles]

I really think Trump should watch War Machine... just sayin'

 

[XMonkey]

It's not possible for the US to win the war in Afghanistan. The best path forward is to attempt a settlement with the Taliban that ensures they will not provide safe haven or support for international jihadists.

That sounds likely.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Are we even at war in Afghanistan anymore?

Yes and no. Afghani forces are doing most of the work getting air support and counter terror operations from the US.

The Taliban (which is likely getting arms from Russia) is still fighting the government and carrying out terror attacks.

 

[Froyo Love]

That is actually a surprisingly aware statement about institutional dysfunction and the common disconnect between management and workers. I am surprised Trump thinks like that. On the other hand, I hope he does not routinely dismiss real expertise and experience, because you can read that statement two ways.

In context, Trump is just using this as an excuse to blow off the informed expertise that disagrees with his hot take on the situation. He does this constantly by using "people tell me" and "everyone knows" to justify unsupported claims and this is no different.

Even if we assume Trump is operating in good faith here: the experience and feedback of workers is valuable for the business functions they interact with. Servers in a restaurant can probably tell you a lot about what's going right or wrong for the business because their job interacts with all of it. Oil rig workers can probably not tell you much about Exxon's global business strategy. Soldiers in a war can tell you a lot about the shit they personally have to deal with, which may be revealing of larger problems (like the logistics of the Iraq war with soldiers not getting body armor), but to have this kind of anti-elitist framing around a conversation that included pillaging mineral rights is insane.

 

[DrSlek]

Having just read The Operators, asking grunts about military strategy would be catastrophic.

 

[BlackGoku03]

That is actually a surprisingly aware statement about institutional dysfunction and the common disconnect between management and workers. I am surprised Trump thinks like that. On the other hand, I hope he does not routinely dismiss real expertise and experience, because you can read that statement two ways.

It is. And it's true in a lot of cases. Even in the military, senior NCOs can/will have more experience than some, possibly younger, officers.

But you have to keep the other advice in mind too. And I'm not sure it scales well to the Top guys in charge at the Pentagon. They're there for a reason.

 

[Fury451]

Well his business perspective is all he knows. And I think you can make a compelling argument that a business paradigm is an inappropriate frame of reference for organizing the government and implementing policy. So you may be right, but as somebody who works with and around a lot of military officers, I can promise you that rank != competence.

Oh for sure, as with anything.

Being business minded may even potentially be great for some aspects of government even- but military force is not a matter of hire/fire based on a whim.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

Think of all the border walls we could build if we just stole their national resources? Why did we even invade them if not you plunder their lands?

Bigly!

I wouldn't be surprised if he has already inquired about the possibility to steal the Great Wall from China.

 

[BriareosGAF]

Is that x axis labelled... 'No nothing'?