We aren't talking about some reality T.V contest here, we're talking about a federal election. I couldn't give a shit if woe is me morons want to spin it. He is clearly inciting his supporters to react in a certain way if he loses and it's fucking dangerous.
Trump refuses to commit to accept the results of 2016 Presidential Election
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We aren't talking about some reality T.V contest here, we're talking about a federal election. I couldn't give a shit if woe is me morons want to spin it. He is clearly inciting his supporters to react in a certain way if he loses and it's fucking dangerous.
Frivolous sedition charges would make people lose trust in the government faster than Trump whining about rigged elections because he knows he's gonna lose.
EDIT: fucking hell Benji
You are going to have to define what frivolous means because nothing that Trump is saying about this comes across as frivolous to me at all. How people are conveniently ignoring the precedent this is setting is beyond me.
Regginator
Member
But... how? Like I said, maybe the election procedures in the US are different, but despite the voter base in Cali being smaller than the US in general, relatively there are much more Hispanics in Cali than in the US as a whole, right? Which should mean he'd have a lot harder time running for mayor in California than running for president of the US.
Unless I'm not comprehending something here.
You don't jail someone for saying the system is rigged, even if they're talking out their ass.
You can call Trump's behavior ridiculous without jumping to "toss him in jail for saying stupid shit".
Anti-sedition, like socialism, is a bad word in American culture because Americans have been largely conditioned to relate them to the worst practices of such things in their enemy states. These values are considered "Un-American" while America prides herself has a land of the free and the land of opportunity, idealized as a place where your opinions and words however incorrect, misleading, or damaging is defended in teh name of freedom, and where anyone from any origin has the chance to lift themselves up to wealth and success by their own efforts alone. Reality looks different, but I guess it's hard to kill institutionalized perceptions.
Less people in California will bother participating in mayoral elections, it will get less media attention, and if somehow a crazy racist dude gets into the post, it's not a huge loss anyway because who cares.
Less people in California will bother participating in mayoral elections, it will get less media attention, and if somehow a crazy racist dude gets into the post, it's not a huge loss anyway because who cares.
makingmusic476
Member
I hope they take to the streets and realize how small their numbers are.
benjipwns
Banned
Just because there is a higher percentage of Hispanics in California than the US as a whole it doesn't mean there is a higher percentage of Hispanics in a specific town even one in California.
Irvine, California, for example, is only 9% Hispanic, it's 45% non-Hispanic white and 45% Asian.
He's tossing off at the mouth because he can't admit when he loses, he's not actually forming a seditious conspiracy against the state or even the current U.S. government.
Or our own experience with the state abusing sedition laws against its citizens.
For things like opposing slavery. Or war. Or calling the President toothless.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Every time I say he shouldn't have made it this far, someone tells me that's not democratic
Hurry up November
Ghost is Bad
Banned
I don't think Trump should be locked up but he and his supporters definitely deserve some intense scrutiny for how little respect they have for the country they claim to want to make great.
Slappers_Only
Neo Member
Can someone break down why this statement from Trump is so shocking? I think this is one of the most tame things he's said. Compared to grabbing a woman by the pussy, why is I'll wait for the election to decide if I agree with the result being heralded as a nail in the coffin type of statement?
I truly am confused...
I truly am confused...
He doesn't have to, he knows his supporters are dumb and spiteful enough to do that on their own. All he has to do is plant the seed, which he's already done. He's drop kicking the bee hive.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
I don't really care whether Trump accepts it or not, because his opinion is worthless, but I am concerned how his supporters will respond.
By the look of things it looks like the whole carny is about to double-down.
This is a very fair point. I am not handwaving the danger of abuse with sedition laws, but I do generally feel that Americans are too afraid to call a spade a spade sometimes but perhaps there is good reason for that.
I don't for example believe that sedition should be used on Trump because he is suggesting the media is biased. But I feel pretty strongly that implying a judge is not fit for office because of his racial background should fall under sedition. Stuff like should not be tolerated.
benjipwns
Banned
Ahh, so you want him arrested for not even participating in any seditious acts but want him arrested for seditious acts we "know" others are already planning that he's sending coded messages to. (That you happened to hear and understand clearly...hmm, suspicious...)
Yeah, that's definitely one way to preserve a republican form of government.
Election eve hysteria.
Regginator
Member
Ah, yes, of course. My bad. I think the word I was looking for was a governor.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
It drives home what a petulant child he is. It is being the biggest sore loser imaginable.
And then you consider that he has a legion of gun-toting neo-nazis and ignorants who are already being told to patrol polling places in "certain areas", and things go from pathetic to worrying.
UltraGunner
Banned
When was the last time Coldplay tickets went on sale?
benjipwns
Banned
Oh come on, claiming that a judge has a conflict of interest in your case is not an insurrectionist stepping stone. Even if it's based on what you think is a xenophobic international conspiracy against you. He's calling for recusal in his case, not toppling the judicial system. Or even disobeying the law. Violently or as civil disobedience. He'll roll over for the judgment like he always does.
Trump wants to be in charge of the U.S. government and the state. He disagrees with how components of it act.
Technically, I'm far more seditious than he is.
And if the past is any indication, I'd be the one more likely to be charged for advocating pacifism. So I may be biased.
Just like happened in 2012 when the black guy stole the election despite all the polls right?
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Trump is not Romney, and Romney did not refuse to accept the results of the election, anyway.
Reminds me of Nigel Farage before the Brexit vote. He was quoted as saying that if the results of the referendum were close, say 52% to Remain and 48% to Leave, then he felt it would be sufficient grounds to call for a second referendum, because it would be so close. Now when the actual results came in as 52% to Leave and 48% to Remain, suddenly the result was valid and set in stone and anyone who calls for a second referendum was unpatriotic and a coward.
So fuck Trump.
So fuck Trump.
Imperfected
Member
Frankly, because with any grasp of republics of the past and how they died, it's hard not to read this as treasonous. Quite possibly treasonous to the point that someone actually stands up and does something about it, as opposed to, you know, the relatively "minor" acts of sedition he's been guilty of up to this point.
Refusal to accept the democratic process is contrary to the idea of democracy itself. If his followers act on that, and he is judged as having colluded with them (as is becoming increasingly likely) or providing support, he exposes himself to a federal death sentence.
Sadly, even if he was put to death for treason, the scars on our republic would be unavoidable. As soon as he opts out of accepting the results of a democratic election and isn't immediately denounced and shunned entirely by society as a whole, the damage has been done.
benjipwns
Banned
We're not talking about the candidates though, we're talking about the "legion of gun-toting neo-nazis and ignorants" who would rightly see Romney as a lieberal betrayer anyway.
It's "I never lose" bullshit from a bullshitter. He has no public office to lock himself in and not hand over, he can refuse to concede all he wants. It's fucking nothing.
Now here's some sly-type sarcasm.
O....kay? Have you considered that maybe it's a worthwhile sacrifice for you to be taken in along with Trump if he can be put away too?! /s
Because, like Bill Maher has said, civilization is a mile wide but an inch thick.
Most of the "civilization" and institutions we take for granted are solely held up by the agreement of everyone to follow the rules and trust our democratic institutions.
If a candidate for president suddenly decides, and convinces a large swath of his followers, that the election is rigged just because he doesn't like the results, no matter the evidence to the contrary, then yeah, trust in public institutions collapses or is diminished, and that's one way to get corruption to go up. Everybody just decides to go their way and not trust the police, the federal government, decide that voting doesn't matter, that all politicians are the same... Democracy stops working because basically a lot of people decide it shouldn't work.
There is probably 1 police officer for every 1,000 residents in any big city. It's impossible for just one of them to "force" every resident to follow the rules, so the only reason there is peace, honestly, is because society wants it. Otherwise, every person would have to have a solider or police officer watching them all the time, like a police state.
Democracy exist precisely because the people want it to exist.
Many citizens in developed nations like the U.S. has taken their stability for granted. It doesn't happened just because, there's peace because people work everyday for it and want it.
benjipwns
Banned
Can I take the other three (Clinton, Pence and Kaine) with us?
Psychoward
Banned
Who would you have win the presidency instead? Johnson?
Another thing to consider, is that it will only be Trump bitching about the results if he loses.
The RNC is not going to go out on a limb for him. The idiot Republican supporters are not going to be dragged further down by that train by damning the process and attacking the evil liberal media.
It will be Trump, and maybe Drudge, and Infowars continuing that debate. Half of the Republican party has either already distanced themselves from Trump, and the other half seems to only support him because they want a turnout for their own local elections.
Nobody is going to die on that sword for a second time, at least nobody who matters.
The RNC is not going to go out on a limb for him. The idiot Republican supporters are not going to be dragged further down by that train by damning the process and attacking the evil liberal media.
It will be Trump, and maybe Drudge, and Infowars continuing that debate. Half of the Republican party has either already distanced themselves from Trump, and the other half seems to only support him because they want a turnout for their own local elections.
Nobody is going to die on that sword for a second time, at least nobody who matters.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
Perfectly fitting that he associates with Nigel Farage then. During Brexit, Farage (a Leave campaigner) expected a Remain victory, and was insistent that a second referendum should be held if Remain didn't win by a large enough margin.
Leave ended up winning by a tiny margin, and that logic went straight out of the window. He was perfectly willing to point fingers at the voting system when he thought he would lose, but when he won, he had no reservations about it whatsoever.
benjipwns
Banned
Karl Rove couldn't handle it in 2012: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TwuR0jCavk
Romney waited two hours after this before conceding and he had never written a concession speech only a victory speech since he didn't expect to lose.
Imperfected
Member
Let's hope so. If all it does is get a bunch of neo-nazis out of their basements and into the back of paddy-wagons maybe it's a salvageable situation, but I'm personally worried that there are enough Republicans who have thoroughly cultivated the conservative scary world syndrome that even if they don't necessarily support Trump as such, they might still support open rebellion against basic democracy.
There are, sadly, quite a few socially conservative Americans who have bought into the increasingly lurid web of conspiracy theories being peddled by the vocal fringe right. (God, we're running out of monickers for the nutters; I mean the Limbaughs and the like of the world.) They might not like Trump because he's a piss-poor representative of conservative values, but they might just as well be game for a "burn it all down" approach because the dirty libruls obviously rigged the game and forced Trump on the GOP as part of their vast conspiracy to never lose the White House again.
benjipwns
Banned
The Limbaughs and the like are the last people to want to "burn it all down" they're multi-millionaires dependent on the system continuing as is. Openly encouraging violent reaction and revolution would be the end of their cushy lives.
There are still people, one who writes for the Wall Street Journal, who suggest that 2012 (and 2010/2014) was unfair and rigged because of the IRS scandal. The UnskewedPolls were even more powerful in the days after Obama stole the election.
All sorts of people believe Bush stole the 2004 election including the current Secretary of State.
There are still people, one who writes for the Wall Street Journal, who suggest that 2012 (and 2010/2014) was unfair and rigged because of the IRS scandal. The UnskewedPolls were even more powerful in the days after Obama stole the election.
All sorts of people believe Bush stole the 2004 election including the current Secretary of State.
And did the world implode?
Outside of Karl Rove, how large was the denial of Republicans? I think within an hour of Fox News calling it, the Romney campaign conceded.
They knew they lost. They were pissed and went into various stages of greaf leading to acceptance. Civil War did not occur, just a lot of sad hanging heads.
benjipwns
Banned
This is different though, Neo-Nazi's and racists and ignorants all love Donald Trump more than they'd hate a black man stealing the election after all the unskewed polls said he would lose bigly.
Remember, Donald Trump has magical extremism powers that require us to all lose our fucking minds.
Remember, Donald Trump has magical extremism powers that require us to all lose our fucking minds.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
This, but unironically.
Did Romney tell his followers to patrol polling places in "certain areas".
Did Romney get people chanting "lock her up!"
Did Romney's followers turn poor pepe into a symbol of hatred?
Psychoward
Banned
If you don't see the difference in Trump playing to his radical base and Romney....
Plus Romney never said the election was rigged and never refused to concede.
benjipwns
Banned
But we aren't talking about the two men who were the candidates. We're talking about the crazies who are supposed to be up in actual arms this time in defense of Donald Trump but not when the black man stole the election they had all but won according to the data.
Romney never refused to concede because he never considered the possibility he'd lose:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...romney-ticket-believed-unskewed-polls/321618/
Yes, the GOP always has poll monitors and tries to recruit them because they don't have as many as they want.
No, but that probably has more to do with his opponents being two men. And they only wanting one of them impeached, not actually tried for his crimes.
benjipwns
Banned
We're organizing the death sentence for Donald Trump after he loses the election and we convict him for treason for running against President Hillary. To protect the republic.
I suggest burning, like a witch.
I'm selling salt-water taffy in the shape of Trumps hair.
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