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[Linkura]

The ACLU is a 501(c)(4), so you won't get a tax benefit from donating to it.

They should do the smart thing and reincorporate as a church.

They have a c3 foundation and donations to that are tax deductible. However, they are far more limited in what they can use the money for.

 

[Skyline Owl]

Praise be to meatballs!

Parma be with you.

 

[kaskade]

Is this constitutional?

 

[Apdiddy]

So I guess if a pastor walks up to the pulpit this Sunday and encourages everyone to vote Democrat and for Trump to be impeached and he donates to the ACLU, he can do that with this EO now, right?

 

[Linkura]

So I guess if a pastor walks up to the pulpit this Sunday and encourages everyone to vote Democrat and for Trump to be impeached and he donates to the ACLU, he can do that with this EO now, right?

Well it's not legal, but Trump is basically ordering the IRS to let it slide.

 

[R0ckman]

Hmm don't remember any record of the first century churches or gatherings being very political. A lot of the writings from that time seem to completely contradict western empire church behavior today. They caused major problems for the Roman empire on a functional level.

Its almost the exact opposite of what it was. Oh well, I guess its not my problem.

 

[darkwing]

So I guess if a pastor walks up to the pulpit this Sunday and encourages everyone to vote Democrat and for Trump to be impeached and he donates to the ACLU, he can do that with this EO now, right?

from what I understand, yes, it goes both ways

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

from what I understand, yes, it goes both ways

Can't wait for Muslims, Jews and Hindus to do the same thing. I'm sure that'll please evangelicals that they are speaking as well. But don't worry, it will always come back as somehow this is oppressing Christians.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Under his eye.

There it is. There we are heading.

 

[Kurdel]

So I guess if a pastor walks up to the pulpit this Sunday and encourages everyone to vote Democrat and for Trump to be impeached and he donates to the ACLU, he can do that with this EO now, right?

It more mega churches using their free speech to fund campaigns with no spending caps.

Churches are people too, my friend.

 

[Fast Forward]

Of course. Of course Trump would sign something like this.

But yeah, hearing churches cry like babies about their freedom of speech​ rights being violated is quite AMAZING.

 

[cloud_sleep]

Under his eye.

Came here for this.

 

[LosDaddie]

So this is another EO that doesn't actually really do anything but sounds like it does in a headline?

Pretty much. DJT is just fulfilling a campaign promise.

Many churches give politically charged sermons and are rarely, if ever, punished for it. In fact, there's a group of pastors who do this, record the sermon, and send it to Washington to see if anything happens.

It's a fight none want to have.

 

[bionic77]

Can't wait for Muslims, Jews and Hindus to do the same thing. I'm sure that'll please evangelicals that they are speaking as well. But don't worry, it will always come back as somehow this is oppressing Christians.

Conservatives actually believe that Christians and white men are the most oppressed.

This county is crazy.

 

[Jotaka]

Time to open a church

 

[Fast Forward]

Conservatives actually believe that Christians and white men are the most oppressed.

This county is crazy.

Does not help when the most popular media channel in the country in Fox is spewing that same sort of BS.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Conservatives actually believe that Christians and white men are the most oppressed.

This county is crazy.

Stupid is as stupid does. Seriously, it's like if narcissism and ignorance became one.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Churches deserve the right to engage in political speech.

It's the tax exemption they don't deserve.

TBH they deserve neither. Archaic hold overs with large sums of money dedicated to following sky wizards shouldn't have political power any more than Netflix or Amazon do. In fact those actually have more to contribute towards labour and trade politics than the church or any religious body does.

 

[Kaiterra]

Churches already engage in political speech. I'm not sure why we try to pretend it doesn't already happen.

This is 100% true.

Agree on Tax but how does the former work if you want division of state and religion?

Personally I disagree. Politics is the legal/social framework for everyone seperate from religion.

Religion is what you chose to do as an individual - I see it as no different than playing games or tennis. Should tennis clubs have a say in politics?

I mean I sure understand why religious groups want a say in politics and its exactly why I don't want them to have it.

Freedom of religion means the state isn't allowed to favor or promote one religion over another. It doesn't mean that political advocacy isn't allowed to come from religion., which is something you're never going to stop without ripping the 1st Amendment to shreds in the first place. I don't like all the horse shit Evangelical policy pushes that get made, but allowing them to advocate for specific candidates is not going to make a big difference.

However, allowing it while they are given a tax exemption is another ballgame. That is the government subsidizing that speech. And that's wrong.

 

[IrishNinja]

brb, tossing more $ at the ACLU

 

[The Wraith]

What the fuck happened to separation of church and state? God damn I loath republicans.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

One thing that Morning Edition on NPR pointed out this morning is that that it's liberal, Democratic churches who have been pushing most strongly for the political activism parts of this... They want to be able to advocate for Democratic leaders in their community, and the local church is often the only consistent community organization in low-income black communities.



The Catholic vote generally tends to break down along the general electorate, at least, it has in the last ~8 presidential elections. Catholics are also less likely to be single issue voters than other Christian denominations, as Catholics make up a significant portion of North East Democrats and South West Latino Americans. Politically, economically, and culturally, Catholicism is a very diverse religion.

Even if this were to support the liberal side of the coin, it's still unconstitutional and must be opposed.

Freedom of AND FROM religion. That's how it works.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Church and state should never be a thing.

Get religion out of politics. Quit shoving that down people's throats.

 

[Rayis]

They fear a Muslim theocracy but they sure as hell are supporting a Christian one.

 

[Keasar]

Oh man, what a time to feel appreciation to live in a secular country.

From us Europeans who had lived with this shit for hundreds of years before: Good luck Americans, you're gonna fucking need it.

 

[Milly Osworth]

I thought the one thing Trump has going for him is that hes not religious.

 

[squeakywheel]

I go to church and I find this repugnant.
Church has no business involving themselves in politics especially from the pulpit.
If the elders represent themselves as individuals, I have no problem with this.

 

[Ithil]

I thought the one thing Trump has going for him is that hes not religious.

He's done nothing but court the white Christian evangelicals nonstop from the beginning. He's not religious at all but he has bent over for them for votes all along.

 

[BobbyRobby]

Okay, then take away their tax exempt status.

 

[thetrin]

Churches deserve the right to engage in political speech.

It's the tax exemption they don't deserve.

Churches deserve nothing. Period.

 

[Kaiterra]

Churches deserve nothing. Period.

So are you saying that the first amendment doesn't apply to preachers or what?

 

[Linkura]

I don't mind churches having tax exemption in principle. But if they are tax exempt, they should be treated like every other tax exempt organization. And they aren't. Even before this, they weren't.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Even if this were to support the liberal side of the coin, it's still unconstitutional and must be opposed.

Freedom of AND FROM religion. That's how it works.

Agreed. Don't care if it's from liberals or conservatives.

If you want political power, then you should forfeit your tax exemption.

Church and State must remain separate at all costs.

 

[andymcc]

So are you saying that the first amendment doesn't apply to preachers or what?

They can engage once they start paying taxes.

 

[Kaiterra]

They can engage once they start paying taxes.

That's what I'm saying, but there are a lot of posters in this thread who seem to be saying that churches both should pay taxes and should, even so, still be barred from political speech. I'm an atheist and I know that's bullshit.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

So are you saying that the first amendment doesn't apply to preachers or what?

Preachers as people? Yes.

Churches? No.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Does not help when the most popular media channel in the country in Fox is spewing that same sort of BS.

And the other channels have this whole "let's listen to all sides/all viewpoints are of equal weight/just asking questions/is there truth to the statement" nonsense that only further bolsters the stupidity further echoed by moderate America.

 

[Not]

They fear a Muslim theocracy but they sure as hell are supporting a Christian one.

.

The difference? A lot less brown Christians in America

 

[DangerMouse]

Church and State are supposed to be separated you knucklehead.

This. Get religion the fuck out of politics as much as possible.

This is some fucking unconstitutional shit you orange turd.

Even if this were to support the liberal side of the coin, it's still unconstitutional and must be opposed.

Freedom of AND FROM religion. That's how it works.

This.

We're supposed to be protected from this shit.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Rednecks and ISIS are pretty similar. They like shooting guns, driving around waving flags in pickup trucks, engaging in hate speech online, killing anyone different from them given the opportunity...

This is the reality. Given the right circumstances, white evangelicals would act just like ISIS. The only reason they don't currently is because they are part of the privileged group in this society. Deprive them of resources, making them desperate, and they'd act in the same manner. 2 sides of the same shitty coin.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

There was another thread that didn't get much traction (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1369000), but to bring this to circle, the ACLU said this order was toothless and not yet worth fighting.

https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-statement-so-called-religious-freedom-executive-order

NEW YORK — After careful review of the executive order covering the Johnson Amendment signed by President Trump today, the American Civil Liberties Union has determined not to file a lawsuit at this time.

American Civil Liberties Union Executive Director Anthony D. Romero issued the following statement:

“Today’s executive order signing was an elaborate photo-op with no discernible policy outcome. After careful review of the order’s text we have determined that the order does not meaningfully alter the ability of religious institutions or individuals to intervene in the political process. The order portends but does not yet do harm to the provision of reproductive health services.

“President Trump’s prior assertion that he wished to ‘totally destroy’ the Johnson Amendment with this order has proven to be a textbook case of ‘fake news.’

“The directive to federal agencies to explore religious-based exceptions to healthcare does cue up a potential future battle, but as of now, the status quo has not changed.

“What President Trump did today was merely provide a faux sop to religious conservatives and kick the can down the road on religious exemptions on reproductive health care services.

“We will continue our steadfast charge to defend Americans’ right to exercise their religion and ensure their freedom from having others’ beliefs forced upon them. The ACLU stands ready to sue the Trump administration and in the event that this order triggers any official government action at all, we will see Trump in court, again.”

 

[R10Neymarfan]

It's gonna get thrown out by a Judge anyway. This isn't constitutional

 

[Mahonay]

This seems like Mike Pence's wet dream.

 

[Journeywalker]

It looks like they basically burned the leaked draft and started from scratch.

NPR's breakdown

 

[Monocle]

Wow what could go wrong?

 

[Lord Frieza]

brb, tossing more $ at the ACLU

If it's about this, they've already said they won't sue because it doesn't change anything and is mostly pandering and photo-op shopping.

If you just mean in general, yeah, it can't hurt

 

[newtypepilot]

screw democracy! Theocracy is the future!

 

[The Salt Life]

Absolutely fucking disgusting. Religion already has too big of a hold on American politics.


Ignorance is bliss

I wouldn't say that...

We are a heavily Christian/Catholic nation yes. Some people hate that, I just don't agree with those people.

 

[ChryZ]

Paving the way for the next Crusades.

 

[IrishNinja]

If it's about this, they've already said they won't sue because it doesn't change anything and is mostly pandering and photo-op shopping.

If you just mean in general, yeah, it can't hurt

we're sadly at a point where just knowing their "we'll see you in court, again" tweets anger he & his base so much, I gotta stay supporting

I can't wait for this to get exploited.

Get ready for Religious Lobbies.

we're really gonna act like those haven't been a thing for a long time now though?