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[matthewuk]

And the tax cut is going to benefit me and the family. I don't know how much the Trump's are getting, but I'm not going to complain about keeping more money.

You got a bum deal, the UK conservatives raised the minimum wage twice, lowered the tax rate for low incomes. And as a result many people earn enough to not need welfare to supplement their income and Unemployment has never been lower (despite what the doom sayers said) and they didn't give the wealthy massive tax breaks either. I think you could of been given much more.

 

[J-Rzez]

Most of the facist SJWers are gone now, and liberal leftist moderators with them. We can have discussions now. If you don’t like Trump I don’t give a fuck; I love my country and the president.

I want DACA legalized though that’s as leftist as I get,.,approve them and end that shit there. Anyone else coming illegal get the fuck out.

GAF is actually tolerable once again, and open for discussion and others opinions. All those scumbags who dog piled and their equally scummy buddy buddy mods gone allows this. They were the stereotypical "oh oh i love the environment and all people, except you, you appreciate cops and have a different opinion from me" punks. I agree, you like Trump, cool, you hate him, okay. That's our opinion.

Ill still never forget GAF the night and week after Trump won. It was one of the most glorious days of comedy ive seen on the internets, the meltdowns were beautiful.

Anyways, I can say Trump has had some good, and some bad this year. His impact on me and my life has been beneficial, but ive seen some impact others poorly. One of those is healthcare, but tbh obama wasn't right either.

 

[hammysaurusrex]

No notable domestic or foreign policy accomplishments or achievements.

Saying he got a Supreme Court judge, though accurate, is not fair to place on him. Republican congressional leaders did all the work, told him who to pick, and he rubber stamped it. It's a participation trophy only, not a hallmark accomplishment of his administration.

For me personally, wages have stagnated in my industry, tax cuts will not benefit me, and health insurance premiums continue to climb. My personal interest is typically not the #1 thing I take to the ballot box, but if it were, he would fail it.

And obviously, the big pink elephant in the room is Russia. As someone concerned for American sovereignty and our fundamental democracy, I'm disgusted to say the least. I support Mueller completing the investigation before the conclusion is made, but if the crime is treason, the consequences need to be proportional to any other traitor to the country.

 

[lefty1117]

Mostly a bad year, with a historically bad start. perhaps the tax cut may prove to be a good thing; I'm actually receiving a pretty large benefit from it, but I'm not sure that it's beneficial for the country as a whole. At no time has corporate America ever shown a tendency to take tax cuts and pass them along to either employees or customers. But we'll see, we'll see.

I'm quite disappointed and even angry with him in the way he supports strongmen instead of his own American institutions. I am quite angry that he has never walked back or made any attempt to smooth over the divisive rhetoric from the campaign - the racism, inciting violence at events, etc. His attacks on the press are more akin to Chavez or Putin style than the great open press, freedom of information that this country was founded on.

I remember saying to my wife during the campaign, if he wins I'm sure he'll sober up, this is just an act to pander to the hard right that is his base - once he's in office the seriousness of the role will sink in. But nope - no signs of that happening. Maybe now that he's paid off his corporate sponsors with the tax cuts, he'll get down to real business. I haven't seen anything to make me think that's the case, though.

And out there, lingering in the background ... is Mueller.

 

[Sadsic]

We gave Obama 8 years and 9 trillion dollars to get us to 2% economic growth.

Trump is promising to spend about 1.5 trillion to get us to 4% growth. I would say it's fair to at least giving him a chance, right?

Anyways it's pretty dumb to try to measure his success when he's barely a year into his term.

I dont think "2%" growth or "4%" growth means much when the average young adult makes less than someone 35 years ago. All of this "growth" is directed towards the richest people, and does not benefit the average person, especially under a conservative administration. It is eminently clear that our current white house has no plans whatsoever to protect the economics of the average person. There has been no major legislation this year so far that directly benefits the majority of Americans, only failed laws which make it increasingly difficult for the average American to achieve the "American dream".

As well, you can very well measure the success of a president in their first year, as that is likely the time when they have their strongest mandate to congress. Trump is likely to have less and less power in Washington as he loses his political capitol, as well as less literal bodies in seats as the Senate and House are likely to flip in either 2018 or 2020. This is the year when Trump will likely have most effect over America, and he's clearly squandered most of what will be the majority of his hard power on Washington.

This tax bill is likely going to be the largest "success" Trump will have for quite a while, maybe the only real major legislative piece he will actually accomplish during his first (and probably only) term. Even then, the president had very little to do with this bill - it was written primarily by 6000+ lobbyists, more than half of all lobbyists in Washington, in a secretive and hastily done manner, in an effort to give as much kickbacks and pork to as many corporate industries as possible. My question is, why the fuck does anyone besides a corporate shareholder even want this? Again, this promised economic "growth" is going straight to the top, and there is no language anywhere in this law that describes it as having to "trickle down" to the bottom via investments or job creation - quite the opposite of what is mandated towards all subsidies towards the poor.

My question to all of you supporting Trump and his "economics": Why doesn't it bother you that the economy and tax code is now even more clearly rigged to support the rich?

I will repeat my claim again - this tax code does not command the rich to do anything with their extra money from these tax subsidies - they can pocket it and give it to shareholders and nothing can be done about this. This is in direct contrast pretty much any government subsidy towards the poor for decades now - it has all been tied to work, forcing the poor who use any government welfare subsidies to continually report their job search, apply to job skills programs and even biweekly drug tests to make sure they are still part of the economy. There are no checks and balances on the rich and what they use their government subsidies for, and they receive exponentially more money from the government for no reason other than as a "reward" to those who "saved their money". Why is this something that is wanted? This sounds like a terrible imbalance of power in the economy and lives of the extreme majority of Americans, and I assume all the Americans typing in this thread right now.

Wouldn't you prefer for the rich to ACTUALLY create jobs and invest in the American economy? If so, why was there a failure to tie any of that to the actual tax cuts in this bill? Why is this money dangerously unregulated, in comparison to the crazily high regulations on all government money handed to the poor (of which is dramatically less), where the money is more directly needed? Doesn't this seem like an atrocity in the changing hands of money from poor to rich? This literally benefits no one besides the donor class, of which I am again assuming no one here belongs to.

 

[pramod]

I dont think "2%" growth or "4%" growth means much when the average young adult makes less than someone 35 years ago. All of this "growth" is directed towards the richest people, and does not benefit the average person, especially under a conservative administration. It is eminently clear that our current white house has no plans whatsoever to protect the economics of the average person. There has been no major legislation this year so far that directly benefits the majority of Americans, only failed laws which make it increasingly difficult for the average American to achieve the "American dream".

As well, you can very well measure the success of a president in their first year, as that is likely the time when they have their strongest mandate to congress. Trump is likely to have less and less power in Washington as he loses his political capitol, as well as less literal bodies in seats as the Senate and House are likely to flip in either 2018 or 2020. This is the year when Trump will likely have most effect over America, and he's clearly squandered most of what will be the majority of his hard power on Washington.

This tax bill is likely going to be the largest "success" Trump will have for quite a while, maybe the only real major legislative piece he will actually accomplish during his first (and probably only) term. Even then, the president had very little to do with this bill - it was written primarily by 6000+ lobbyists, more than half of all lobbyists in Washington, in a secretive and hastily done manner, in an effort to give as much kickbacks and pork to as many corporate industries as possible. My question is, why the fuck does anyone besides a corporate shareholder even want this? Again, this promised economic "growth" is going straight to the top, and there is no language anywhere in this law that describes it as having to "trickle down" to the bottom via investments or job creation - quite the opposite of what is mandated towards all subsidies towards the poor.

My question to all of you supporting Trump and his "economics": Why doesn't it bother you that the economy and tax code is now even more clearly rigged to support the rich?

I will repeat my claim again - this tax code does not command the rich to do anything with their extra money from these tax subsidies - they can pocket it and give it to shareholders and nothing can be done about this. This is in direct contrast pretty much any government subsidy towards the poor for decades now - it has all been tied to work, forcing the poor who use any government welfare subsidies to continually report their job search, apply to job skills programs and even biweekly drug tests to make sure they are still part of the economy. There are no checks and balances on the rich and what they use their government subsidies for, and they receive exponentially more money from the government for no reason other than as a "reward" to those who "saved their money". Why is this something that is wanted? This sounds like a terrible imbalance of power in the economy and lives of the extreme majority of Americans, and I assume all the Americans typing in this thread right now.

Wouldn't you prefer for the rich to ACTUALLY create jobs and invest in the American economy? If so, why was there a failure to tie any of that to the actual tax cuts in this bill? Why is this money dangerously unregulated, in comparison to the crazily high regulations on all government money handed to the poor (of which is dramatically less), where the money is more directly needed? Doesn't this seem like an atrocity in the changing hands of money from poor to rich? This literally benefits no one besides the donor class, of which I am again assuming no one here belongs to.

I can't believe what I just read. Almost nothing you wrote made any sense.

A tax cut is not a subsidy. It's the government lowering the amount of money they steal from the private sector. I think you're confusing it with those billions in subsidies Obama threw at companies like Solyndra that went down the toilet.

And welfare IS a subsidy...it's giving people something they never earned in the first place. That's why the govt can set the rules of who gets them...and yeah sure it would be great if they can make these companies use the tax cuts to hire more people but...they don't have the right to tell people what to do with their own money..that would be, you know, unconstitutional.

But I agree with you that stagnating wages and income equality IS a big problem...but a lot of it is being caused by loss of manufacturing, decimation of the middle class, automation, etc....stuff that I don't think anyone really has a good answer for right now. Did Obama or Hillary had a solution for people displaced by automation or outsourced jobs besides "go learn to code?"

And I also don't believe that the economy is a zero sum game. If the economy grows, there's a bigger pie for everyone to share. Sure sometimes it seems the rich may be getting bigger chunks of the pie but ultimately everyone benefits. Especially if lower taxes causes foreign companies to invest more in the USA.

So while tax cuts will help, I agree that it's not the ultimate answer to everything. Like Trump said it will take a lot more, like renegotiating trade deals, reducing illegal immigration which lowers wages, etc.

 

[lefty1117]

Sure sometimes it seems the rich may be getting bigger chunks of the pie but ultimately everyone benefits.

No. Jesus Christ in heaven above, NO. This is the exact kind of talk Trump, Kochs, and all the others want to hear from you. If you would do even a smidgen of research you'd find that at no times have tax cuts for the wealthy ever translated into benefits for the "lower classes". Our greatest times of prosperity as a nation have always been during more progressive tax regimes.

As to the comment about "government stealing from the corporations", aka taxing them, well if you really believe that corporations should have no obligation to pay tax on their earnings - well I'll trade you that for repeal of Citizens United and any semblance of corporate lobbying and corporation donations to election campaigns. Then at least we can be consistent in our arguments.

 

[transformer]

Trump's first year was far better than I expected. In hindsight, I may have considered voting for him. I still probably wouldn't, but the following was what was "supposed" to happen:

1. Stock market crash.
2. Banning all Muslims from America. Rounding up all Muslims in U.S. and putting them in camps/deporting them.
3. Russia running the U.S.
4. Anti-Semitic/racist policies
5. WW3 with some nations(s) TBD.
6. Global warming destroying the world.

And many others...

So this all turned out to be complete and utter tripe. None of this campaign nonsense spewed out by anyone turned out to be true. Many of it has been the complete opposite. Stock market up, unemployment down, GDP up, ISIS nearly ruined, no Russian influence whatsoever (Trump just supplied weapons to the Ukraine...), WW3 hasn't happened, no Muslims have been banned, etc. I could go on. But the moral of the story is that 99% of this has been utter nonsense and fear mongering.

I know there is a large constituent of Obama fans that enjoyed doubling the national debt, tripling health care costs, tripling food stamp reliance, stagnant GDP growth, etc. and felt this was the best way for the nation to go forward. But let's all be honest here. That was a recipe for the destruction of the United States. We got Trump because another four years of that was the alternative. This first year of Trump has been far better than that.

 

[transformer]

No. Jesus Christ in heaven above, NO. This is the exact kind of talk Trump, Kochs, and all the others want to hear from you. If you would do even a smidgen of research you'd find that at no times have tax cuts for the wealthy ever translated into benefits for the "lower classes". Our greatest times of prosperity as a nation have always been during more progressive tax regimes.

I've done quite a bit of research and found that, in recent history, every single instance of cutting corporate tax rates in industrialized nations has shown immediate positive GDP growth in a nation. Which happens to benefit everyone as unemployment goes down, wages go up, earning per capita goes up, etc. Across the board. It didn't even take a smidgen of research to find this. Lastly, in the U.S. we have a tax system which is progressive and target the rich. So the lower income people pay little to no taxes. This is an effort to not burden the lower class with taxation. By definition, if you pay little to no taxes already then you don't stand to save much on taxes from a tax cut. However, the prospect of higher wages, or having a job, is a good thing for the lower class. Also, the entire nation was created on revolting from a nation putting an undue tax burden on the people. They were darn prosperous after revolting for lower taxes.

 

[JordanN]

Trump's first year was far better than I expected. In hindsight, I may have considered voting for him. I still probably wouldn't, but the following was what was "supposed" to happen:

6. Global warming destroying the world.

While I can understand the other viewpoints, Trump's denial of global warming is still a dangerous thing.

The world hasn't been destroyed... yet. But that's kinda the point of trying to prevent it to begin with.

He's gone on record dismissing a scientific consensus as being a "chinese hoax". That's highly arrogant and reckless behavior coming from a head of state to dismiss the works of scientists.

 

[Blood Borne]

No. Jesus Christ in heaven above, NO. This is the exact kind of talk Trump, Kochs, and all the others want to hear from you. If you would do even a smidgen of research you'd find that at no times have tax cuts for the wealthy ever translated into benefits for the "lower classes". Our greatest times of prosperity as a nation have always been during more progressive tax regimes.

As to the comment about "government stealing from the corporations", aka taxing them, well if you really believe that corporations should have no obligation to pay tax on their earnings - well I'll trade you that for repeal of Citizens United and any semblance of corporate lobbying and corporation donations to election campaigns. Then at least we can be consistent in our arguments.

FALSE.

The idea that a nation can tax itself to prosperity is analogous to you trying to lift a bucket by the handle with you standing in it.

Tax cuts is always a good thing. Fuck government spending. Always wasting money. Simply put, taxation is theft.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

Econmey is soaring, unemployment at a record all time low, and illegal immigrantion way down. I guess he needs to work on his flowery speeches and photo ops.

This is art.

 

[Mohonky]

He is the Commander in Chief of the armed forces of the United States.

I must have missed the part where the US drove ISIS out.

 

[transformer]

While I can understand the other viewpoints, Trump's denial of global warming is still a dangerous thing.

The world hasn't been destroyed... yet. But that's kinda the point of trying to prevent it to begin with.

He's gone on record dismissing a scientific consensus as being a "chinese hoax". That's highly arrogant and reckless behavior coming from a head of state to dismiss the works of scientists.

I agree that taking a politicians denial of science should not be done. But that's why I go to the actual scientists for global warming and other scientific information. Long story short, there is not consensus at all on global warming and the actual global warming theories have not been proven true. Now this doesn't mean we can say screw the environment, there is actual scientific consensus equating pollution to health, and other, issues and we should make policy to reflect that. However, the global warmIng alarmism needs to stop.

 

[Kurt Angle]

Econmey is soaring, unemployment at a record all time low

Baracks Legacy lives on

 

[transformer]

Baracks Legacy lives on

The same guy who said there was no magic wand to bring back economic growth? That jobs were never coming back? Nah, his destruction of the economy has been staved, at least in the short term.

 

[Dienekes]

GAF is actually tolerable once again, and open for discussion and others opinions.

As long as there are no personal attacks and genuine conversation is being had and debated, we welcome open discussions of legitimate topics.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

It's always "heads I win and tails you lose" with leftists.

Even if the economy is still soaring in 2018, 2019, 2020, they'll still say it's Obama. And when a leftist president takes over and fuck it up, they'll say it's Trump.

Definitely. Thanks to Pres. Trump people are changing their attitude. It's all about winning, bringing jobs back and draining the swamp.

Also, I'm not sure how some libs say with a straight face that the policies Republicans, Pres. Obama, and Dems passed years ago are driving the 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 economy. In addition, the mental gymnastics people are doing to avoid admitting the election of Trump didn't quickly lead to economic ruin and tanking stocks is something.

I struggle to see how you can give Pres. Obama and those Congresses so much credit given all the partisan bickering, corresponding uncertainty and all the tax cuts. Remember...according to the "experts" tax cuts don't work & cause recessions that Democrats have to clean up. I mean the US economy today speaks for itself with respect to that.

 

[Vicetrailia]

You guys are so miseducated. But I wonder what it would take to actually make progress. It's not debate, but surely this isn't the peak level of awareness.

 

[Militant17]

The same guy who said there was no magic wand to bring back economic growth? That jobs were never coming back? Nah, his destruction of the economy has been staved, at least in the short term.

His destruction of the US economy? Keep drinking the Kool-Aid buddy. LOL

 

[RiccochetJ]

Definitely. Thanks to Pres. Trump people are changing their attitude. It's all about winning, bringing jobs back and draining the swamp.

I see a lot of the same cronies still in place. I haven't seen a lot of swamp draining tbh.

Also, I'm not sure how some libs say with a straight face that the policies Republicans, Pres. Obama, and Dems passed years ago are driving the 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 economy. In addition, the mental gymnastics people are doing to avoid admitting the election of Trump didn't quickly lead to economic ruin and tanking stocks is something.

That's because it can take years to see the result of regulations and mandates to take hold. Sure there are things that can move quickly like the effects of the tax cuts, and that's because Corporations were holding back their money due to uncertainty. Now that they know the direction, they're moving forward full force. But it is absolutely asinine to think that Trump was completely responsible for this economic environment. I think the Obama administration had a lot to do with that. However, I'm also going to mostly blame the Obama administration for having the federal interest rates so damned low that it's going to bite us in the ass hard in a couple years and I'm going to only direct a bit of blame to Trump for keeping them that way.

I struggle to see how you can give Pres. Obama and those Congresses so much credit given all the partisan bickering, corresponding uncertainty and all the tax cuts. Remember...according to the "experts" tax cuts don't work & cause recessions that Democrats have to clean up. I mean the US economy today speaks for itself with respect to that.

You can't, and Trump has done a lot this year which I applaud. But don't be so laser focused. There's a lot at play and Obama did a lot of good.

Long term, I think these tax cuts are going to be great. You're already seeing Europe grumbling about it. Why? Because we're competitive. Corporations now have to think long and hard about whether to send their money overseas or keep it here in the US. Before, it was a no brainer which is why for example most of Apple's money was over there.

However, initially I think what we're going to see is a lot of buybacks along with mergers and acquisitions which is great if you're active in the stock market. However, the middle and lower class will not see the benefits of that right away.

The biggest thing I'm concerned about is the federal interest rate. It's way too low right now and it's what I feel is the largest contributor to what we're seeing in the stock market and we're way overdue for a correction. Ideally, I want to see it make it's way up to around 5 or 6% over the next couple of years. Right now the banks are finding it a better idea to lend money to the government than to the people. I want to see the inverse of that. That's when you'll see true growth and competition.

 

[Deleted member 713885]

I guess my ideas would lead me to be called "Alt-Right" but I dont think I am, I sure as hell aint a Nazi lol

I was liberal once, in my 20's. I voted Obama in his first term but I thats when I started to flip I think.
I was progressively minded. I bootstrapped it from nothing to something.

I guess I was naive. I watched the wave of "Bush is a Nazi!" and fell right into it. Preaching that people had to see Fahrenheit 911, hating cops, hating my country....
I see it ALL over again...just I'm not 25 anymore.

But then it changed, its like I became the enemy as a straight white male as these last few years have dragged on. Nobody wants equality, everyone just wants to be top dog.
I am all for putting every race or sex equal but the nobody really wants that. Their idea to do so is to attack and/or pull down the ones at the top rather then work to get to the top.

We all play the game. At work or with family us blue collar wite dudes, 30-50 year old talk honest...in the real world, like on social media we pull the same shit that had the polls thinking Hilary was gonna win lol We bullshit...then we pull the Trump lever.
Cause...we all the know the truth. Theres a ton of you liberals on here or ones you know who champion Liberal ideas but in the back of their head know its bullshit lol

I know, this idea of "Utopia" sounds great....but we know its bullshit lol

Credulous at best
Your desire to believe in angels in the hearts of men
But pull your head on out your hippie haze and give a listen
Shouldn't have to say it all again
The universe is hostile
So impersonal
Devour to survive
So it is, so it's always been.

Why do I support/vote Trump??
Cause I cant come to a message board anymore and talk about Dave Chappele without it becoming a 40 page thread about trans women telling me how I am a Nazi if I think hes funny and that I should be opening to sleep with them or I am a bigot.
Cause I cant talk about a JRPG without it becoming a 40 page thread discussing how video game tits make the game unplayable.
Cause I can watch a post on a message board say "Man, FUCK white women!" sit in a thread for 4 days and it be ok.
Cause I can write "Fuck Christianity" but not Islam because most of its followers are POC.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

I guess my ideas would lead me to be called "Alt-Right" but I dont think I am, I sure as hell aint a Nazi lol

I was liberal once, in my 20's. I voted Obama in his first term but I thats when I started to flip I think.
I was progressively minded. I bootstrapped it from nothing to something.

I guess I was naive. I watched the wave of "Bush is a Nazi!" and fell right into it. Preaching that people had to see Fahrenheit 911, hating cops, hating my country....
I see it ALL over again...just I'm not 25 anymore.

But then it changed, its like I became the enemy as a straight white male as these last few years have dragged on. Nobody wants equality, everyone just wants to be top dog.
I am all for putting every race or sex equal but the nobody really wants that. Their idea to do so is to attack and/or pull down the ones at the top rather then work to get to the top.

We all play the game. At work or with family us blue collar wite dudes, 30-50 year old talk honest...in the real world, like on social media we pull the same shit that had the polls thinking Hilary was gonna win lol We bullshit...then we pull the Trump lever.
Cause...we all the know the truth. Theres a ton of you liberals on here or ones you know who champion Liberal ideas but in the back of their head know its bullshit lol

I know, this idea of "Utopia" sounds great....but we know its bullshit lol



Why do I support/vote Trump??
Cause I cant come to a message board anymore and talk about Dave Chappele without it becoming a 40 page thread about trans women telling me how I am a Nazi if I think hes funny and that I should be opening to sleep with them or I am a bigot.
Cause I cant talk about a JRPG without it becoming a 40 page thread discussing how video game tits make the game unplayable.
Cause I can watch a post on a message board say "Man, FUCK white women!" sit in a thread for 4 days and it be ok.
Cause I can write "Fuck Christianity" but not Islam because most of its followers are POC.

This has what to do with Trump's first year?

 

[Mohonky]

This has what to do with Trump's first year?

Not a lot, but guarantee a lot of people voted for Trump simply because of similar sentiments.

 

[Deleted member 713885]

This has what to do with Trump's first year?

Sorry, this post was supposed to go into the "Whats your political leaning" thread.

As for the 'first year' question...I think he has done what he has could so far but I would like him to get more of his promises/ideas passed.

Some stumbling here or there but all in all anything is better then Liberals/Progressives.

 

[Dunki]

This has what to do with Trump's first year?

Not with his first year but also a reason why peopple still like him. He is as anti PC as someone can get.

 

[Az]

Just a gentle reminder; this kind of dismissive snub to posters who are still junior members is not something we condone, nor will be tolerated. Let's just chalk this down to a misdemeanour and move forward

I've been here long enough to know that. However, I did not shit on Juniors just to shit on Juniors. I questioned the influx of new Members spewing Trump propaganda once all the drama was over. This will be my last comment on this thread.

 

[BANGS]

I've been here long enough to know that. However, I did not shit on Juniors just to shit on Juniors. I questioned the influx of new Members spewing Trump propaganda once all the drama was over. This will be my last comment on this thread.

You do realize pro-trump posters used to get banned, right? That pretty much explains it all right there...

 

[RiccochetJ]

I've been here long enough to know that. However, I did not shit on Juniors just to shit on Juniors. I questioned the influx of new Members spewing Trump propaganda once all the drama was over. This will be my last comment on this thread.

How about you engage and debate?

 

[entremet]

Interesting to see conservatives actually post lol. I remember in the old days of PoliGAF this was more common, actual debates with ideological opposites. I'm pretty liberal, but I enjoy the dialogue.

 

[Mohonky]

Interesting to see conservatives actually post lol. I remember in the old days of PoliGAF this was more common, actual debates with ideological opposites. I'm pretty liberal, but I enjoy the dialogue.

I do too, but the passive aggressive tone from some members is equally as annoying as the condescending self righteousness that was evident previously too.

 

[entremet]

I do too, but the passive aggressive tone from some members is equally as annoying as the condescending self righteousness that was evident previously too.

I think people are still adapting honestly. They see a conservative position and are shocked. I don't think it's a GAF thing, but modern internet communities have balkanized overall. Facebook has driven this too with their algorithms to show only content you agree with. And this happens everywhere online too. If you to try debate folks on the r/TheDonald on social topics, they will insult and cringe about it too. We all like our bubbles.

My thing is that there should at least be places for dialogue. We may never convince each other, but the dialogue is good.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

Interesting to see conservatives actually post lol. I remember in the old days of PoliGAF this was more common, actual debates with ideological opposites. I'm pretty liberal, but I enjoy the dialogue.

Absolutely let’s have a dialogue if we don’t agree that’s fine. Banning anyone with a differing opinion before was so disgusting.

 

[BANGS]

Absolutely let’s have a dialogue if we don’t agree that’s fine. Banning anyone with a differing opinion before was so disgusting.

And sadly it was to pander to the same exact people that turned on this place and ran...

Hopefully moving forward this place will maintain a level structure. I do hope they learned that hivemind bullshit only ends in heartache...

 

[mattiewheels]

His appointments to the EPA is biggest example of letting the foxes run the henhouse you’ll ever see. Pruitt and his second in command are beholden to the fossil fuel corporations and tow the line about climate change being a hoax. At least a lot of states are pledging to uphold the Paris Agreement after the inevitable pullout.

 

[J-Rzez]

As long as there are no personal attacks and genuine conversation is being had and debated, we welcome open discussions of legitimate topics.

Which is awesome. Even this discussion in here is better than we've had in years. No personal attacks or threats. Months ago i would have been called a racist cop, dog piled, then banned with a snarky remark from a mod for defending myself and opinion.

GAF is a much more comfortable place. I wasn't coming back after the last incident, but I noticed this change, and now we can rebuild GAF to what made it awesome in the past.

Sorry I know its OT, but feels good, good job thus far all.

 

[shpankey]

I consider myself non-political. Not a fan of Trump's personal antics, but can separate that from what he can/will do as the president. I know it's kind of weird to say, but I do think a person can do a great job as a president with moral shortcomings and vice-versa, a great person can be a very bad leader. So I remain open minded and tend towards optimism as to how the country will be at the end of his term. It's definitely been entertaining so far however.

 

[EBE]

At worst he's been a disaster. At best it's a poor to middling job. He's not a total screw up in the sky is falling kinda way but the direction he's taken things is definitely not to my liking.
I will say that he has definitely tarnished our hard and soft power abroad. It's not a good look for America right now.

 

[shpankey]

Yeah, I don't think anyone could argue (at least very effectively) that he hasn't tarnished the image of the american presidency. In some cases, into the comical. But somehow he has managed to make some important improvements to key areas, though I guess that can be debated whether or not that is to his credit or not.

It's definitely very strange to see the over-the-top twitter posts reacting to so many things going on. I can't say that I like that one bit coming from our nations commander in chief. But I still stick by my thoughts that he can achieve great things for the country on a whole, and may do so.

It's a very weird and strange time right now, that's for sure.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Econmey is soaring, unemployment at a record all time low, and illegal immigrantion way down. I guess he needs to work on his flowery speeches and photo ops.

He's stuck to his campaign promises better than most after taking offices. Looking forward to seeing my paycheck increase thanks to the tax cuts.

As far as i'm concerned, every day that I wake up & Hillary isn't President is a great day.

My God are y'all fucking stupid.. HAHA

 

[Breads]

Idiot conservatives credit Trump for things Obama did then get quiet when asked what Trump actually did to improve the economy or unemployment. Gets me every time.

 

[Ke0]

Idiot conservatives credit Trump for things Obama did then get quiet when asked what Trump actually did to improve the economy or unemployment. Gets me every time.

From what I understand his budget plan (?) hasn't even been submitted and won't be until like the middle/end of 2018, and until then your country and government are still running under Obama's rules and budget right? If I have that right I don't really see how Trump gets credit for the trajectory of the economy when it's a continuation of Obama.

 

[Naudi]

He is a complete joke and I can't take anybody serious that calls him a great leader or great man or anything great. He is a petty, narcissistic, ignorant shit stain on America. Lowering taxes in exchange for his constant dividing of America is not worth it to me. Hopefully all that fast food will do it's work here soon.

 

[TheContact]

you have to be delusional to think he's done a good job. stock markets only went up because of the perception that he would do well, as that's how the stocks work. he has a literal laundry lists of Ls and only one! W (the tax bill), and the white house admitted Trump personally benefits from that tax bill. Anyone who still thinks he cares about America before himself and his friends has the wool pulled over their eyes

 

[pramod]

If Trump was so "horrible", why does he have the same approval rating as Obama at the same time in his presidency?

https://twitter.com/DRUDGE/status/946392234403991552

And he achieved this rating with 24 hour a day 99% negative media coverage. While the media was 99% positive for Obama.

So what this all mean?
So was Obama also horrible?
Or was Trump not so bad?
Or...FAKE NEWS?

 

[Dunki]

you have to be delusional to think he's done a good job. stock markets only went up because of the perception that he would do well, as that's how the stocks work. he has a literal laundry lists of Ls and only one! W (the tax bill), and the white house admitted Trump personally benefits from that tax bill. Anyone who still thinks he cares about America before himself and his friends has the wool pulled over their eyes

But that tax bill was also the reason stock went up. Do not get me wrong I think its terrible for normal people but the ones care about the stock market etc are not the normal people.

To say he had nothing to do with this is pretty navie IMO.

Also I know that he cares for the jewish people as well. Thats also a reason why he did the Jerusalem part. For America? He cares about the capitalism of America not about social issues.

 

[Alebrije]

I am still waiting his promise about fight corruption, for a moment even thought he was going to expose corruption in Mexico , specially from Peña Nieto and pals. I do not like a lot of stuff he does but idea of fight againts illegal inmigration is nice, as someone that lives on a border city in Mexico plagued by Maras and illegals from America Central truly understand how that affect your community.

Not saying people does not deserve a better life , but if there is a chance to get it or give a better life must be offer to the good people not all in general.

If there should exist a Wall must be between Mexico and Central America , will be cheaper and easier to control. A joint venture between USA and Mexico. This would control illegal inmigration and drugs.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

I see a lot of the same cronies still in place. I haven't seen a lot of swamp draining tbh.


That's because it can take years to see the result of regulations and mandates to take hold. Sure there are things that can move quickly like the effects of the tax cuts, and that's because Corporations were holding back their money due to uncertainty. Now that they know the direction, they're moving forward full force. But it is absolutely asinine to think that Trump was completely responsible for this economic environment. I think the Obama administration had a lot to do with that. However, I'm also going to mostly blame the Obama administration for having the federal interest rates so damned low that it's going to bite us in the ass hard in a couple years and I'm going to only direct a bit of blame to Trump for keeping them that way.


You can't, and Trump has done a lot this year which I applaud. But don't be so laser focused. There's a lot at play and Obama did a lot of good.

Long term, I think these tax cuts are going to be great. You're already seeing Europe grumbling about it. Why? Because we're competitive. Corporations now have to think long and hard about whether to send their money overseas or keep it here in the US. Before, it was a no brainer which is why for example most of Apple's money was over there.

However, initially I think what we're going to see is a lot of buybacks along with mergers and acquisitions which is great if you're active in the stock market. However, the middle and lower class will not see the benefits of that right away.

The biggest thing I'm concerned about is the federal interest rate. It's way too low right now and it's what I feel is the largest contributor to what we're seeing in the stock market and we're way overdue for a correction. Ideally, I want to see it make it's way up to around 5 or 6% over the next couple of years. Right now the banks are finding it a better idea to lend money to the government than to the people. I want to see the inverse of that. That's when you'll see true growth and competition.

I wouldn't be concerned at all with the federal interest rate. I don't think they should raise it until they can bare minimum prove that they can hit their low inflation target of 2% on average. But they're determined unfortunately to do what doesn't make a whole lot of sense at all costs.

Also, all I'm saying is that you're seeing a lot of growth and private sector job creation at a time when Congress is struggling to get a constant stream of major legislation to your President's desk to sign. Also, I think Pres. Trump is changing attitudes with his rhetoric about making America great.

In terms of responsibility for the economy, I would attribute minor credit to any one individual. Trump's rhetoric and proposals sends signals. Alternatively, Obama did some good things like for example slowing the rise of income inequality. However, all of that is in the context of an economy that's putting out over $19 trillion in 2017. That's in the context of a recovery from a recession that caused trillions of dollars in losses. In addition, your government repeatedly talked about slashing useful social services, raising taxes and refusing to raise the debt ceiling over the years too. So, on top of inaction you had people actively seeking to contract the economy alongside the good things people did to help it grow.

Finally, I'll leave you with this. The fact so many Democrats want to spin Trump's 1st year as their guy doing all the heavy lifting when Obama had a split/Republican-controlled Congress for most of his reign is funny. According to this story, a 2009 stimulus package full of tax cuts, an auto bailout, a bank bailout, Obamacare and more miscellaneous tax cuts are responsible for the success of Trump's 1st year in 2017. Unless you're a liberal that thinks that tax cuts unleash growth if it's by a Democrat, then I don't see how you spin this as there's nothing to see here it's all thanks to Pres. Obama.

 

[JordanN]

Edit: Nevermind, I see he was still here.

 

[pramod]

Trump's Tax Cuts Are Forcing Other Countries to Compete:

Countries like Australia, France, Germany and Japan, all of which have effective corporate tax rates of at least 30 percent, will be under pressure to follow. . . . Some Chinese officials worry that the tax measure will cause more American companies to try to take money out and are mulling new restrictions on capital flows. The newly approved tax incentives could appeal to companies that are frustrated by China's rising labor costs, ambitious local competitors and tangled legal systems, or that would rather spend their money at home or elsewhere.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454958/gop-tax-cuts-forcing-other-countries-compete

Canada . . . faces risks the U.S. will become more attractive on a tax basis, an advantage that could widen should the Trump administration withdraw from [NAFTA]. ”Canadian politicians cannot afford to keep taking our competitiveness for granted, as they have been," said Jack Mintz, head of the University of Calgary's public-policy school. According to his research, Canadian forestry, power generation, and transportation and warehousing would find themselves at the greatest disadvantage over the Trump tax changes.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454958/gop-tax-cuts-forcing-other-countries-compete

While the tax cut could boost investment flows into the US, the question for Singapore is whether American companies might now re-evaluate their investments here. After all, as [Withers KhattarWong partner Eric] Roose noted, the difference between the US and Singapore's corporate tax rates is now just 4 percentage points. ”The general effect overall will be that US companies will do more things in the US and bring their profits back. Companies will begin to reassess their global structures and whether they really need foreign operations, or as much as they have now," he said.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454958/gop-tax-cuts-forcing-other-countries-compete

Looks like Trump's tax cut is setting off a huge chain reaction throughout the world. It's a huge boost to capitalism and growth. Pretty bad news if you're a Socialist or pro-government spending though, I guess.