Frankfurter
Member
That's rather unlikely, considering that the German government can't decide to just not sue anyone (it actually can't sue anyone to begin with).
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"Turkey asks Germany to prosecute comedian over Erdoan poem"
- Thread starter Ladekabel
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That's rather unlikely, considering that the German government can't decide to just not sue anyone (it actually can't sue anyone to begin with).
Heh, I concur. Many of the nicest folk I met while living in a small French town were Turkish. They were the most welcoming of others not from the area so I got along swell!
This situation is crazy, though. :\
They have to give the ok that he can be sued. They didnt do it back then when the polnish government asked. Now they have to discuss it.
ClosingADoor
Member
The government doesn't have to give the OK to the prosecutors to investigate anything. That would be rather strange.
br0ken_shad0w
Member
As long as Turkey continues to control the Bosphorus and Dardanelles, they'll never be kicked out no matter what crazy thing they do.
Oh so it's Bild who escalated all of this? Why am I not suprised?
In terms of insulting the heads of other states, they do need to.
"3. Abschnitt - Straftaten gegen ausländische Staaten (§§ 102 - 104a)
§ 104a
Voraussetzungen der Strafverfolgung
Straftaten nach diesem Abschnitt werden nur verfolgt, wenn die Bundesrepublik Deutschland zu dem anderen Staat diplomatische Beziehungen unterhält, die Gegenseitigkeit verbürgt ist und auch zur Zeit der Tat verbürgt war, ein Strafverlangen der ausländischen Regierung vorliegt und die Bundesregierung die Ermächtigung zur Strafverfolgung erteilt."
Winnie the Pimp
Member
Before reading the whole thing, i was actually firmly on the side of free speech and that under no conditions would it be acceptable to censor or sue someone based on what they say but i have to say AFTER reading it now.... Well, let's just say, i can somewhat understand the people that say a line has been crossed with this. It IS a bit too extreme even for a satirical outlet.
Still, though, it is a matter of principle and i sure wouldn't want to be the guy that has to sort out how to proceed now...
Still, though, it is a matter of principle and i sure wouldn't want to be the guy that has to sort out how to proceed now...
Just a question: Did you only read the poem or do you also know the context in which it was embedded in (it was announced as an example of what's not legal in Germany).
the whole point of the poem was to be offending. The content of the poem is completely irrelevant, they wanted to find out how far they can go - they actually intentionally broke the law, think of it as sort of a test for freedom of speech in Germany. Nothing is going to happen to Böhmermann and he'll benefit greatly from all the media attention
I also like the whole meta level of all of this. I don't know if Böhmermann actually was also thinking about this, but it shows, if you want to refugee topic out of your sight, you may have to deal with crazy people and be ready for their ridiculous demands. And now that even a lot of conservatives are for free speech, it is pretty funny.
On the other side, now that the biggest badass in Europe is on the same side mit dem blassen, dünnen Jungen, nothing is going to happen.
On the other side, now that the biggest badass in Europe is on the same side mit dem blassen, dünnen Jungen, nothing is going to happen.
Winnie the Pimp
Member
Not really, but the post afterwards explained it pretty well... Yeah it makes sense from his perspective i guess... Still though, not hard to see that Erdogan would be offended by this regardless what the intentions were and that there would be consequences given his...unique temper.
Frustrated_me
Member
Economy.
To quickly summarize what happened is that Erdogan and his AKP party actually did very, very good in the first term or two. The AKP party actually built infrastructure (they still do) like mad, creating jobs, giving back to the poor people with incredible health care. The AKP party made it easier to get mortgages (via a secure and solid system) where mortgages didn't exist in Turkey. The good majority of the people for the first time in their life had fair access to a job, education, healthcare and a roof over there heads. Hope was installed back into the country. Erdogan really was kinda incredible back then, mind you a lot of his policies were carrying over what was already planned by others but had yet to be executed. Ohh and get this, Erdogan wasn't really that pro-religious back then either, I mean sure he was very open about being muslim and so forth but he wasn't as religious back then, more on this later.
Then what happened is as follows, and this is simply my theory, my opinion. Erdogan got the shaft from the west, Europe embarrassed him time after time on the public stage by stalling their European entry candidacy.. As much as the AKP party reformed Turlye into looking and feeling more like the west, the Europeans power that be gave AKP the shaft and said "nah, continue waiting in line while these other poorer countries are allowed in".
...So Erdogan said fuck it, he gave up on the West knowing full well no matter how well Turkey does Europe will never allow the country in. Erdogan began boosting it's allies with the middle-east and Asia. AKP party at this point was very well established, funded and incredibly popular. The AKP party saw the Middle-East movement as an opportunity and started to cater to the audience (the Sunni Muslims) and went to bed with KSA. This is about when the AKP went full stupid with the religion thing. This plan ultimately backfired when Egypt's Muslim brotherhood fell and Syria couldn't be forced into a regime change.
To add to the misery, in order to gain a majority vote in the elections that followed in Turkey, the AKP distanced themselves from the Kurdish HDP party and moved more right wing to the nationalist MHP. This caused a drift between the Kurds (about 20 million Kurds live in Turkey) and the Turks living in Turkey and you now have a cluster fuck of a civil war between the Kurds and the state in south east Turkey.
The icing on the cake is ISIS attacking both the Kurds and the Turks living in Turkey. Finally, the AKP has to now deal with 3 million plus Syrian refugees that's costing the country billions.
tldr: Erdogan tried, the west failed him, so he tries an alternative method, which ends up failing him too.
It was apparently Böhmermann's and his production companies decision. ZDF neo still seems to support him
http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/tv/jan...ste-neo-magazin-royale-sendung-a-1086800.html
I am not sure if I trust the official version in this case
ClosingADoor
Member
Didn't know that. Seems very strange to have politics involved in something like this. I get a head of state might comment on it, but for the government to actually say prosecute something or not doesn't seem right.
The Le Pen Thread?
Infrastructure: They have stakes in construction companies so by constantly tearing down and rebuilding buildings they line their pockets.
Healthcare: They made hospitals eat the costs of health care, making many hospitals go out of business, or lower in price, then their interests purchased said hospitals, and threw in jail the owner of a private hospital for no real reason.
Unemployment was actually pretty high. They sold many companies that were traditionally Turkish to foreign interests reducing the country's autonomy.
Erdogan was arrested decades ago for inciting religious hatred. He did prison time. He was always a religious nut.
Your post is full of ridiculous spin. There's more I could deconstruct but it's so full of either ignorance or bias that I just don't know where to begin.
Focus online is a shit website that should not be taken serious.
Wait until someone else reports on this.
You're certainly right about Focus Online, but pretty much everybody else reports it as well, and if I'm not mistaken, focus.de was the site who came up with this news first.
According to welt.de (yeah, I know), a spokeswoman of the cologne police already confirmed publically that Böhmermann is under police protection.
http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article154270583/Boehmermann-steht-unter-Polizeischutz.html
RamzaIsCool
The Amiga Brotherhood
Yup basically Erdogan is corrupt as fuck. Where he and his inner circle has lifted billions of dollars with contruction (toki), mining (ever wondered why nothing happened after the Soma mining disaster, where 300+ people died) and shady privatization deals (just look to the companies who got the contracts). And many other things.
This is all, the wacky things you read about Erdogan is just part of him trying to survive. i used to wonder like some of you if he and his advisers never heard about the Streisand effect. But then it occured to me that it's not about the outside world, it's about his base in Turkey, the base that keeps him in power. Thats all he needs, the whole world can think of him a loony, but in the end that doesn't matter. This has actually alot of simalarities with what is going on with Trump.
Bedameister
Member
Yes but I don't think that's the case for Germany. A big reason why Erdogan is so thin skinned when it comes to Germany is that more than half of the 2.9 million voters that live abroad are located in Germany. And the German turks are very much in favor of Erdogan. About 60% of them voted for the AKP last time. German Turks are very important for Erdogan so I think he reacts more sensible to such things if they happen in Germany.
On a lighter note (at least a little):
Varufakis stands in for Böhmerman.
http://m.spiegel.de/kultur/tv/a-1086599.html
For context: Böhmermann brought himself and Varufakis in trouble when he and his team shopped a video of him, talking about Germany. In the end of Böhmermann version Varufakis flipped the bird to Germany.
His tweet is really great!
Also the link he tweeted has a FULL transcription of what happend in the show and what was said (in German).
Varufakis stands in for Böhmerman.
http://m.spiegel.de/kultur/tv/a-1086599.html
For context: Böhmermann brought himself and Varufakis in trouble when he and his team shopped a video of him, talking about Germany. In the end of Böhmermann version Varufakis flipped the bird to Germany.
His tweet is really great!
Also the link he tweeted has a FULL transcription of what happend in the show and what was said (in German).
Hm, wouldn't surprise me if he received death threats.
Haha, that's cool
I can't believe that some asshats apparently are so into Erdogan that they would send death threats because of nonsense like this. It's not like Böhmermann insulted anyone or anything other than Erdogan. (Not that it would make things any better if he had.)
RamzaIsCool
The Amiga Brotherhood
The fact that the AKP/ Erdogan has such a strong following in Germany (or any other western european country) isn't that surprising. When the "guest workers" came to Europe in the 60s/70s, they were primary from the poorest and most conservative places in Turkey. Places in central Anatolia like Konya and Kayseri or blacksea cities like Trabzon and Rize. These are places where the AKP has 60% of the votes also. You would hardly find Turks who emmigrated from İzmir or even İstanbul, two of the biggest cities in Turkey.
That said, those German Turks are just an extention of his votersbase. Erdogan doesn't need to do anything special, because those people (especially the elder generation) consume their media mostly thru Turkish sources anyway. And like in Turkey that conservative base don't budge that quickly on their voting habit simply because they have no viable alternative that would fullfil their views.
Frankfurter
Member
That's only true for §103 StGB, which is a rather special law that's only applicable to - basically - governments. The polish government could have sued based on §185 StGB and there would have been nothing that the German government could have done about that.
Basically the only difference between 103 and 185 is that the former is only applicable to governments/heads of state while 185 is for anyone, and that 103 has higher maximum penalties.
Do you live in Germany? I'm not surprised, the Erdogan supporters in Germany aren't exactly the most educated or integrated. Today, the CSU guy probably made his first good comment in years: have imams be educated in Germany and cut funding from Saudi-Arabia. While he's more aiming at terrorism, it should also improve those people taking on our values and accept that we have freedom of press and art.
Maedre
Banned
My Boss is a Turk, well educated, intelligent, very well integrated but still defends Erdogan. He always says that the european/western media tries to mock him. He did so much for turkey.... yada yada yada... it's so sad to here him. On the other hand, our second boss (turk too) believes that the earth is only six thousand years old and Our solar system the only one is. The rest of the stars are Allahs ... something something Religous...
It's time to leave this place -.-
BrassDragon
Member
Forget the Turks, we already know Erdoğan is an enemy of freedom and enlightenment. He's not exactly subtle about it, is he?
My ire is solely directed at Merkel - what, you can't even unequivocally support your own constitution and citizens? That's the bare minimum I'd expect from a chancellor.
It's maddening that this thing even has legs, she should have shut it down at the first opportunity instead of throwing a damn entertainer under the bus.
Sometimes the spirit of the law trumps the letter of the law.
My ire is solely directed at Merkel - what, you can't even unequivocally support your own constitution and citizens? That's the bare minimum I'd expect from a chancellor.
It's maddening that this thing even has legs, she should have shut it down at the first opportunity instead of throwing a damn entertainer under the bus.
Sometimes the spirit of the law trumps the letter of the law.
So Belgiums (Flemish) satirical show De Ideale Wereld (The Ideal World) did a piece on Erdogan too now as a reaction on this case. (Barbara Streisand effect in full effect!).
They took footage of a press conference of Erdogan and subtitled it as if he reacts on the poem, with a powerpoint in the background to illustrate his points. So he says 'I don't beat women, it is the other way around. And the mask isn't rubber, it's polyster'. and then 'The same goes for goats, it's the other way around to).
So in a way they just added insult to injury, for which I can only applaud these guys (The show is pretty good, but I always felt their satire could be a bit nastier.)
The (NSFW!) piece begins around the 38:40 mark: http://www.canvas.be/video/de-ideale-wereld/voorjaar-2016/dinsdag-12-april-2016
They took footage of a press conference of Erdogan and subtitled it as if he reacts on the poem, with a powerpoint in the background to illustrate his points. So he says 'I don't beat women, it is the other way around. And the mask isn't rubber, it's polyster'. and then 'The same goes for goats, it's the other way around to).
So in a way they just added insult to injury, for which I can only applaud these guys (The show is pretty good, but I always felt their satire could be a bit nastier.)
The (NSFW!) piece begins around the 38:40 mark: http://www.canvas.be/video/de-ideale-wereld/voorjaar-2016/dinsdag-12-april-2016
Frankfurter
Member
Definitely needs English subtitles
I'll translate as much of it as possible/
He starts with: 'a german journalist has said some things about me I'd like to nuance.'
then the part of the poem where it is about his penis smelling like kebab.
"I hear this critism a lot. But be honest, who hasn't felt any temptation when seeing a tasty, hot durum. Look at it yourself, so hot and dripping with sauce. Can you say no? Horny as hell!" *audience claps*
"And yes, it smells like pigs arse sometimes." *silence* "Horny as hell!"
*part about him hitting women*
"Honestly. I've never hit a woman ever! At home it is always the other way around!" *footage of a woman smacking a guys arse* "by the way, the mask isn't made of rubber, but of polyester! Small nuance"
*part about the goat fucking*
"I swear, I have never fucked a goat ever! That was the other way around too!"
*part in the poem were it sais he has fellatio with a hundred sheep*
"That's a lie! I am a faithfull man! I would never cheat on my goat!"
*part in the poem about the small dick*
"I admit. It's nothing to brag about."
*audience gives standing ovation.*
Chuckie
Member
In the meanwhile a Dutch cartoonist proves Erdogan is not a goat fucker (slightly NSFW cartoon)
It got removed from Facebook for a while, but actually put back by them.
It got removed from Facebook for a while, but actually put back by them.
It wont. He attacked a politican, not a religion...
gutter_trash
Banned
The outrage generation has outlawed criticism of leaders and governments of Muslim countries
The most terrible thing about this whole scandal is that Böhmermann had to cancel his show for this week and probably next week too because of all the stupidly that is happening right now around it. Fuck this. I need my weekly Neo Magazine dose. Stay save Jan
Oh and btw fuck BILD
Oh and btw fuck BILD
huh?
Currently on mobile, but I posted a link in the gemangaf thread. To busy for translating, will maybe do it later
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