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"Turkey asks Germany to prosecute comedian over Erdoan poem"
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Kill Your Masters
Member
AfD voters are dumb as fuck though, as they are happily voting for climate change denying, pro carbon dioxide, dont tax the rich, women should stay at home, anti-lgbt right wing nuts just because "omg immigrants and erdogan!".
Election is coming up and they are under 20%.
It should be noted that this does not imply a conviction. I actually agree that it is not the responsibility of the government to absolve or condemn a citizen. The question now obviously is whether the poem can be deemed a form of art and thus protected from limitations that other forms of expression might be subject to through something like paragraph 103.
At the very least, the legal basis for this case is set to be removed now, and I wouldn't be surprised if any sentence (in case of an unlikely conviction) were to fall on the low side.
At the very least, the legal basis for this case is set to be removed now, and I wouldn't be surprised if any sentence (in case of an unlikely conviction) were to fall on the low side.
Captain Smoker
Member
Basically.
And "voting because of defiance" is no reason to support this craziness.
I also dislike Merkels move, but thinking about it it's basically fucking politics and politicians fighting for power and other shit, therefore her move was probably inevitable.
Nothing will happen to Böhmermann, Erdogan can fuck off because he can't cry around for another few months and can only say "Ok" to the decision of the court and he can't blame Merkel, while she still gets his support in the refugee crisis.
And of course: Streisand effect is going to hurt Erdogan even more.
While I think you are true about the lack of education of AfD voters in the East, I'm pretty sure it's not necessarily the big case in BW or Hessen. While I don't sympathize with the AfD at all, I can see why people would vote for them as a form of protest due to SPD and CDU having done crap shit in recent years.
Don't be afraid, I wouldn't vote for the AfD, but du it now I also wouldn't know whom I could still vote for.
From a few lines i read i think the poem is somewhat insulting and of bad,terrible, taste but when a person is a politician should understand this job has certain risks.
I find that the german government is correct to allow the case to go on trial however i sense a humiliation for Erdogan is coming.
I find that the german government is correct to allow the case to go on trial however i sense a humiliation for Erdogan is coming.
Did you get the whole context? It being insulting and of bad taste is pretty much the point of the poem.
I feel so sorry for Böhmi. He is an awesome person. :-/ Fuck this.
Always-honest
Banned
Wait.. what? They caved in?
The context of the poem was "Listen Edogan, this is what an actually insulting poem sounds like, so you start to understand the difference.".
Kill Your Masters
Member
Dont worry, I wasnt implying you would vote for AfD or something. I just like to point out why the AfD is poison...because I think a lot of AfD voters are not aware and educated enough about the "true program" of this party and only see the immigration policies.
Merkels reaction definitely sucks though, but if people are going to vote, they have plenty of non-AfD (and NPD for that matter) parties to pick from.
Sadly true :-(
Protest. Please.
This is terrible. For all the talk about 'defending our Western values against terrorism and extremism' we sure are quick to give our freedoms and values away in a splitscecond.
Don't be. I think his plan to expose our government for the weak hypocrites they are worked flawlessly.
Merkel is right imho. She could have said no and be everybody's darling. She said yes leaving the decision to the courts. You could say that is cowardly but I think it strengthens the rule of law and the separation of powers. Ultimately the only right decision. She's fucking impeccable. And her moral compass is stronger than her drive to power. She doesn't give a flying fuck about votes.
People don't realize what we have in her.
<3
People don't realize what we have in her.
<3
A law that was written ages ago and has so rarely been used, nobody even remembered it existed?
She should've told him "LOL, freedom of speech, look it up!" dropped the mix and walked off stage.
MisterFalcon
Member
Even if he is acquitted the term 'prosecuted for hate speech' will never go away.
What does it matter when it was written? What does it matter if people remember it? It's there. It shouldn't be. It's not her fault but she addressed the problem and will correct it. She did right.
Didn't know Volker Kauder was on this board.
The government has the right to permit or deny prosecution in this context. That has nothing to do with separation of powers. They could've referred to the other paragraph under which Erdogan already sued anyway.
This is simply a way to further get into Erdogan's ass. After how she mismanaged the refugee crisis and this, I wonder if she really wants to be reelected.
Not sure if serious but... I know it is in the law, but hell, there are many weird laws from the past that are still in the lawbooks that are never used. This seems to be one of them, so the sensible thing to do was to say: hey, we have freedom of speech, deal with it. I read that Merkel is planning to scrap the law now anyway, so why still give this case to the proscecuters?
It's a spineless decision that goes straight up against the Western values politicians can't scream loud enough about. Freedom of speech is something that only in very rare cases (hatespeach and inciting violence for instance) should be limited. It should NOT limit satire in any way. By allowing this case to go trough, Merkel has put freedom of speech on a slippery slope, even if the dude isn't convicted in the end (which I think/hope he won't be)
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
How could anybody say something bad about a flawless leader and defender of human rights like Erdogan? Please don't sue me Erdogan
That's probably what the courts will do.
If a court decides guilty then we will have just reason to be outraged, other than the fact that this silly law still exists in the first place.
Not sure if serious but... Merkel was defending the german democracy with this decision. And people blame her for throwing away western values? What are your "values" that she threw away? And no, freedom of speech is not affected.
I live in Hessen. Every AfD voter I know is dumb as fuck.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
not so much that they caved, just that Turkey legally has the right to sue.
or something
either way, this is gonna be fun!
Bots are better than you
Banned
Wouldn't be the first strange decision of a court. I fear that for this to happen, all it needs is some backwards conservative judge(s) with a similar backwards opinion about satire and freedom of speech.
People have "offended" or "ridiculed" foreign leaders all the time over the course of history in Germany. Erdogan is the first one to invoke this law. It's petty and small and laughably bad.
You think the people behind these floats deserve to be proscecuted too?
No, she wasn't.
§103 says that the german government has to actively allow an investigation. The government is inserted there for a reason. It is not like a veto right. They have to decide whether they allow this investigation or not. Both options are fine in a democratic sense and are perfectly within the law.
It is not like Merkel decided to not interfere with the law. She actively allowed Erdogan to pursue charges in regards zu §103 against Böhmermann.
How was she defending German democracy? (Edit: I assume by letting the courts do their work? As the poster above me states, the fact the government has to agree wth proscecution isn't undemocratic, it is probably writting in the law to avoid it being used on a whim)
And how is freedom of speech not affected if you are liable to proscecution for satire?
People have "offended" or "ridiculed" foreign leaders all the time over the course of history in Germany. Erdogan is the first one to invoke this law. It's petty and small and laughably bad.
You think the people behind these floats deserve to be proscecuted too?
?!
You are mixing things left and right. I don't think anybody deserves to be prosecuted here. But that's the point, what me and you and Angela Merkel think doesn't fucking matter. leabe it to the prosecution or the courts ultimately. They will show Erdogan his limits. It's not up to Merkel at this point.
Where does it say that? I looked it up earlier, but the text of the law doesn't seem to include the government at all. I don't really understand why the government has been involved directly.
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__103.html
(§200 has nothing to do with it.)
Thats why she announced that they fix this law
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I feel like a lot of people are underestimating Merkel. While I don't like her that much myself, she is way too smart to "cave in".
Here's what will happen, I think: He will be found not guilty and they will remove §103 on which the accusation is based on. This way basically nothing happens and the relationship between Germany and Turkey doesn't suffer too much.
Here's what will happen, I think: He will be found not guilty and they will remove §103 on which the accusation is based on. This way basically nothing happens and the relationship between Germany and Turkey doesn't suffer too much.
CadetMahoney
Member
Merkel will still win next election easily.
Germany is due to go to the polls in 2017 to elect a new government, and Merkels Christian Democrat Party won't suffer any backlash from this distant event. People calling her smart and will come out of this a winner since she's the one that will get rid of the law and knows the courts will rule in the journalists favor.
Germany is due to go to the polls in 2017 to elect a new government, and Merkels Christian Democrat Party won't suffer any backlash from this distant event. People calling her smart and will come out of this a winner since she's the one that will get rid of the law and knows the courts will rule in the journalists favor.
Funyarinpa
Member
This is fucking maddening as a (lucky, since I have a fair chance of going abroad for university) Turk. Holy fuck, it's INFURIATING. I'd honestly get terrorized rather than let this piece of shit bend even Europeans to his/its will.
I hope I'll see the day of the fucker's death being christened as a national holiday.
(Not talking about the comedian, obviously)
I hope I'll see the day of the fucker's death being christened as a national holiday.
(Not talking about the comedian, obviously)
Simply by not putting her personal opinion above the law. That's called democracy.
Also freedom of speech grants you, well, freedom of speech. But freedom of speech does not discharge you from aftermaths which may follow. It also does not grant you the right that people will have to listen or that they have to agree with you. In this case at least one person didn't agree and used §103. Which is - in contrast what people claimed in here - not the first time that it happened.
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