Two adults have consensual sex, Texas is going to send one to jail!
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ConfusingJazz
Member
No, I don't think she should get 20 years, she should be fired, have her teaching license revoked, and pay a fine.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
Yeah, kil em all, fucking pedos
The difference between teacher and student to me is the age difference and what Devolution has said about coercion. Even if one is a legal adult, what guarantee that the relationship did not start before that, with the teacher abusing their position. And a 18 years old in comparison to a 34 years old and older is an age difference where even though the 18 years old reached the limit of legal adult there is a difference in expected maturity and they are not really much mature. That causes further imbalance in addition to the teacher being a person of authority that can potentially coerce the student. That increases the risk and problem of coercion as one of the two adults is in a weaker position than the other older one in a position in authority. And then you combine this issue with the uncertainty of when exactly such a relationship might have started whether it was before the legal limit. Such relationships can be damaging to students and their future. Making it illegal is something that makes sense, but I am not really sure how to punish it.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
The amount of people who are willing to speculate about what could have been and then passing judgement or advocating harsh punishment based on that really weird speculation is mind-boggling. What's it like to be that way?
Manmademan
Member
I think this is a bit more serious than that, because you have to think about the (potential) damage to the student in the long run.
From personal experience I know a girl who became involved with a teacher in high school, and ran off with him for several years. Of COURSE it didn't end well, and the news was full of all kinds of stories about how she claimed she had been coerced by a trusted authority and now her life's a wreck, unable to sustain normal relationships, etc.
once you let that genie out of the bottle, it's a lot harder to put it back in. People who will abuse a position of authority for personal gain are not rare, so it's best to err on the side of caution. I support harsh punishments here.
Devolution
Member
What's it like to expect teachers to not fuck their students? You got me I guess.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
How is this illegal? What is inherently illegal in these actions?
Wafflecakes
Member
Just like you are speculating that it was all innocent and no coercion was involved.
(also don't see anyone advocating harsh punishments. Most agree she should be fired though)
The part where it's clearly spelled on in the states law that it's illegal?
That's a start.
ConfusingJazz
Member
If only we had a legal way to figure out the story behind all of this, and have their peers give decide if the charges are valid or not, and an expert in law to judge the length of the sentence if convicted.
Yep. It's like restrictions on sex between prison guards and inmates. Even though they're both adults it's still considered rape even if they both claim the sex is consensual. Society has a rational incentive to protect people from those in positions of authority.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
I'm not sure you comprehended what I wrote. You should read it again and take a breath and drop the anger.
It's almost as if.... But nah, fuck it. Blerg blerf hissy fit and shit
We should just jail anyone who has sex with someone who could be considered a lesser power. Teachers having sex with students. Bosses having sex with anyone underneath them. Attractive people having sex with less attractive people. More intelligent people having sex with less intelligent people. Fuck freedom! Let's arbitrarily define which adults can have sex with each other and imprison those who clearly invoke their superiority, wherever it may be, to have sex with another person. Let's ignore the fact that in cases like this, we're assuming one party was abusing their "position of power" instead of it just being two consenting adults wanting to bang each other. Sex isn't that big of a deal; at least it isn't as big of a deal as Americans tend to make it out to be.
Dark Octave
Banned
Why jail time? I wonder if they have to sign up as a sex offender when they get out.
We need sane people who are grounded in reality to make laws please. The ones we have now obviously have mental issues and are not fit to hold that power.
We need sane people who are grounded in reality to make laws please. The ones we have now obviously have mental issues and are not fit to hold that power.
Smiles and Cries
Member
it becomes harder for people to respect laws when they become really stupid
Wow, you're like a living breathing embodiment of the slippery slope argument.
I think laws like this to change. After thinking it over it definitely seems excessive. The teacher should be punished since she is in a position of coercion but 20 years in jail when it is legal for them to have sex....... I would think banning her from teaching and letting her continue to live in society would be a better use of her life.
blame space
Banned
frowned upon
ConfusingJazz
Member
If you fuck someone under your authority in business, you just opened up your company to a huge liable case.
because sex in circumstances like this is considered to lack consent, it's considered a form of rape. The idea is to prevent people in authority from using that authority to get sexual favors.
I'm honestly having trouble seeing where the people in favor of criminal charges draw the line STOPPING the slide down the slope.
Two people in a workplace. The boss is 34 and the burger flipper 18. Criminal charges?
That really isn't pertinent
ConfusingJazz
Member
No, but the boss isn't a legal authority, nor in charge of minors.
Neither is purposely not recognizing the difference in authority between a boss over their employee, and a teacher over their student.
Devolution
Member
I don't get the debate here. She's a teacher. She fucked her student. It's a clear abuse of authority. It's coercive sex. Coercive sex is rape. These laws are to protect those who might feel pressured to say yes.
Don't want to get in trouble? Don't fuck your high school students. I hear self control is difficult.
Don't want to get in trouble? Don't fuck your high school students. I hear self control is difficult.
Manmademan
Member
But it clearly ISN'T legal, which is why she's been arrested.
It's not just an age or an omgpedo issue, it's an abuse of authority issue as well. It's usually illegal for prison guards to enter into sexual relationships with inmates for the same reason. It's POSSIBLE for it to be entirely innocent and consensual, but the potential for abuse and consequences of damage is simply too high.
If this woman REALLY was interested in a consensual relationship with this dude, then she could have waited a year and it wouldn't have been a problem. The fact that she couldn't or wouldn't says a lot about her judgement and character. throw the damn book at her and let her rot in prison as an example.
exactly. teachers and schools function in loco parentis which means that in the absence of a parent, they have a certain amount of legal authority over you. Your boss at burger king? not so much. and most kids don't have the ability to simply walk away or stop showing up to school if they're feeling pressured.
He may certainly be in charge of minors if this is a burger joint. And what do you mean by "legal authority"? He certainly has the legal authority to fire her ass.
I'd like to see more people respond to this comment...
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Depends on the nature of the relationship. If the Doctor is writing prescriptions for the patient? Yeah, I'd have a pretty strong problem with that. I don't know if its "crime" strong, but I do think its wrong.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
I think you just have a general problem with comprehension. Also an issue with differing valid opinions. Or maybe you're just angry. It's hard to tell.
But that's the best way to do it. Vicariously.
No she shouldn't. What she does off the school grounds is her business and her business alone. It shouldn't be anyone's business if she's having sex with another consenting adult.
There is no defending any sort of punishment for this. It's straight up stupid. Sex between consenting adults should NEVER result in punishment. Ever.
Is it illegal to have sex with bosses in your workplace? Serious question. Usually I just thought they get hit with civil suits.
I find the prison comparison to be a pretty bad analogy since they don't have any outlets to go to and cannot leave (since they are in prison).
Devolution
Member
Or maybe some people don't understand coercion well enough.
Wafflecakes
Member
I think you have a general problem of assuming that anyone who disagrees with you has comprehension problems.
blame space
Banned
what if the student was just really charming?
There is an expected amount of 'authority' given with each of those cases. None of them involve the teaching of minors over a long period of time. This boy happened to be 18, but how much exposure had he to the teacher before hand? There's a lot more influence in a Student/Teacher relationship than most any other I can ever think of.
RyougaSaotome
Member
Fired, sure. Arrested? Really?
At my old college, is was totally fine for a professor and a student to be in a relationship provided they were both 18 and up (duh) and they had to file something with the school so it wasn't hidden.
I can't even imagine somebody getting arrested for that though.
At my old college, is was totally fine for a professor and a student to be in a relationship provided they were both 18 and up (duh) and they had to file something with the school so it wasn't hidden.
I can't even imagine somebody getting arrested for that though.
You're making a huge assumption that she had to abuse her authority to coerce the student into having sex with her. Would she still be abusing her authority if the student propositioned her and then they had sex? The answer is obviously no.
Don't want to have sex with another adult just because they may be "coercing" you? Just say no. But I also hear self control is difficult.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
Then you fuck 'em obviously.
I'm sorry, but... I... I think I truly understand why Dev is as angry as she seems to some of the people in this thread. I...
Devolution
Member
If you're a teacher you have no business courting a student, which she was doing. This thread is disgusting in its defense of this woman's actions.
Wafflecakes
Member
Agreed.
Just because most people agree she shouldn't go to jail does not mean that we think what she did is ok. She should totally be fired and sever teach again.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
The state's law is not logical and doesn't seem inherently constitutional. It's not like states haven't made bad laws that have been overturned before. It's been ruled that sexual relationships between consenting adults are not under the jurisdiction of states to criminalize.
At the expense of two consenting adults, as defined by the state and federal government, having the freedom to carry on a relationship. I doubt those furthering this debate are ignorant of the fact that this is a law. Rather the argument is focused on the inflexibility of it.
I think your completely right that she had absolutely no business courting a student and should be punished but the question is how much punishment is enough.
I don't think you can ever call a relationship between a high-school student and a teacher consensual though.
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