I agree with that completely.
What I don't agree with is 20 years jail time, which Devolution is saying to be perfectly fine.
Two adults have consensual sex, Texas is going to send one to jail!
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I agree with that completely.
What I don't agree with is 20 years jail time, which Devolution is saying to be perfectly fine.
Manmademan
Member
As I mentioned before, teachers and schools function in loco parentis and have a greater amount of legal authority than your boss at burger king does. For instance, your rights against unreasonable search and seizure and freedom of speech are greatly restricted at school- the teachers and administrators make the call here.
And that's not taking into consideration that a corrupt teacher or administrator could most certainly fuck your transcript if they were feeling vindictive or wanted to pressure a student into doing something- Being fired from a minimum wage job and being kept out of college are two completely different situations. The stakes here are simply greater.
And your average student does not have the option to simply stop showing up to school if they're feeling uncomfortable or unsure about an authority figure.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
Why? Because she rages and adds nothing to the discussion? She gets called out for it and still rages on not addressing what someone said? Okay, cool. I'm fine with that but you'll still get called out for being ridiculous. Of course, not once did I say what she did is right, but fuck the facts and have a field day.
The student is an adult. Why the hell should the government have the power to say who can and can't be in a relationship when it's all adults involved?
If the teacher met the student outside of school and wasn't his teacher it'd be fine by law. So why does it magically change because they met in a different situation? It shouldn't.
Go ahead and jail her for 20 years. I hope you're ok creating a career criminal, though. You think she'll go in and do 20 years and come out and say "I can see the light"? She will be one hard mofo after 2 decades in the penn.
So I guess some of you see this as a good solution? I don't see prison time as being productive. She would learn a hard enough lesson losing her family and career. Even house arrest or probation conditions that are strict.
So I guess some of you see this as a good solution? I don't see prison time as being productive. She would learn a hard enough lesson losing her family and career. Even house arrest or probation conditions that are strict.
Do you think your college would permit a professor having such a relationship with a student in their class?
I mean, let's be clear. An 18 year old student at John Smith Highschool can fuck a teacher at Jane Doe High School all they want. But YOUR teacher is a different matter altogether, even IF you think you should be allowed to have sex with a teacher AT your school.
Wafflecakes
Member
What does inherently constitutional even mean? Is there such a thing?
If you look at laws in general there are very few that are pretty much spelled out 100% in the constitution as ok. Hell......I doubt there are any of any significance.
Right. The state has no burden to demonstrate that the relationship is coercive, the law just bypasses the issue of consent to construct a statutory protection for this particular type of relationship.
Big Baybee
Member
This isn't rape and she shouldn't go to jail. Fire her, move on.
As I've explained, I don't think that there can be consensual sex between a high-school student and a teacher. It doesn't matter that he happened to be 18 at the time.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
Yup
Manmademan
Member
you're ignoring the fact that the supreme court has ruled that high school students while at school do not have the rights and responsibilities a full adult does, and in that case the teachers and administrators function as parents and make decisions FOR them to a limited extent.
This is why there is a problem here, and why this law is entirely constitutional- because while at school primary and secondary students are NOT legally treated as adults even if they ARE 18.
There most certainly can be. I know some teachers I would have probably had sex with given the chance, just saying.
Saying "I don't think that adult can consent to something" is saying that person isn't an adult. What they consent to is entirely up to them.
There are laws on the book in many states that don't allow K-12 Teachers to have sex with K-12 Students, a number of which don't care if the student is of legal age, and a few don't even care if they are at the same school.
A high school student when faced with the authority of a teacher they've probably know for at least many months if not years CANNOT make the same decisions as an adult.
Wafflecakes
Member
Except its not and never has been that way.
(also pointing out I agree the law is stupid)
States have always had every right to determine who can and cannot consent. It may be stupid but its the law. Even if it wasn't the law she still should be fired though.
MyAbsolution
Member
LOL if this was a male teacher there would be hell to pay.
Fire her, bar her from ever teaching again.
Teacher-Student relations? Not ok. I don't care if ur 18.
Fire her, bar her from ever teaching again.
Teacher-Student relations? Not ok. I don't care if ur 18.
Based on what?
You could say the same about anyone in a job that needs to put food on the plate. A lot of people just can't afford to lose that job and don't want to rely on a lawsuit that will take months to sort out. One teacher is not going to keep you out of college and there are still outlets to go to to report this kind of stuff (if you can't talk to your parents).
NathanMcMahon
Banned
Of course, she's a fucking rapist.
Wafflecakes
Member
Based on that student spent the last 12 years being required to obey teachers and it can be ingrained enough that they may or may not say yes to anything?
(Not saying that is the case here. Thats the gist of it though)
BEHEAD HER RIGHT NOW
Bull. An adult is an adult and can make decisions as an adult. Unless there's proof manipulation happened there should be no punishment, not even firing.
And how do we know the student didn't manipulate the teacher somehow as well? That can happen too. He threatens to get her fired unless she has sex with him or something.
Yeah...people, you realize murderers have done less time than what this lady might do?
I don't suppose there are any studies done that will support my position, but you cannot have that sort of relationship without there being undue influences that make a purely consensual decision like that impossible.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
Castrate her!!! Blerg and gloom and doom. Guilty I say.
The fact the situation is INHERENTLY coercive. This is a form of statutory rape.
This should scare any sane individual. It essentially means the government can determine any relationship it wants as inappropriate. As long as the government has this power things like gay marriage will certainly never be legal across the whole country. This is a problem. The government should not be allowed to say who can and can't be in a relationship.
Suppose this was a prison guard and a prisoner. Both swear it's totally consensual sex. Is it a crime? Should it be?
I don't think this is rape. I think it's probably a case of consenting adults having sex. However, according to the article the law clearly states that it applies even between consenting adults. The teacher certainly knew the law and knew there would be consequences to her actions. You'd assume that the adult student could comprehend the law as well. If the student had any sort of feelings for the teacher at all he wouldn't have let me be put in this position. They could have easily waited until after graduation.
That being said, I doubt she will get the full 20 years for this, given the nature of the case. More than anything I find the fact that a non-violent, first time offender had to pay $10K in bail to be the most appalling part of this.
That being said, I doubt she will get the full 20 years for this, given the nature of the case. More than anything I find the fact that a non-violent, first time offender had to pay $10K in bail to be the most appalling part of this.
Not really, the public is a strong driver of policy. We see this with Gay Marriage and would see the same in any nightmare jack-booted thug scenario you're describing.
Wafflecakes
Member
No because some relationships would be protected by other parts of the Constitution. For example relationships between different races. However, being in a subordinate position to another is not a protected class.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Some of you are acting like she is already sentenced to 20 years in prison. First she has to go to trial and then, if she's found guilty, she could potentially be sentenced for that long. It's doubtful that it'll happen and she'll probably end up with probation or something.
I'm a bit torn on this. True, they are both "adults" although an 18-year old high school student is still pretty vulnerable to being preyed upon by an adult. Also, the law is the law and as a teacher she had to be aware of that before they were together. This is the kind of thing they usually discuss in teacher orientation sessions just to make sure everyone is aware.
That said, there is definitely a gray area here. Firing her and making sure she never teaches again is probably plenty of punishment.
I'm a bit torn on this. True, they are both "adults" although an 18-year old high school student is still pretty vulnerable to being preyed upon by an adult. Also, the law is the law and as a teacher she had to be aware of that before they were together. This is the kind of thing they usually discuss in teacher orientation sessions just to make sure everyone is aware.
That said, there is definitely a gray area here. Firing her and making sure she never teaches again is probably plenty of punishment.
ConfusingJazz
Member
Wait, what? No, she should be fired and have her license revoked at minimum, even if this turned out to be the most innocent love since some Disney movie.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
She should definitely be fired. Definitely. I'm not even willing to have a conversation about that.
But prison time? For this? Really? Fucking for REAL?! Why can't we use common sense and stop wasting tax dollars in this country? What she did was wrong. No doubt. But she is not a threat to fucking society people. Jesus Christ...
And you know what, usually I do have a double standard when it comes to these type of stories when they involve Man/Girl or Woman/boy. Admittedly, I'm usually more lenient in favor of the women and more harsh when it comes to the men. It's wrong of me and I have no excuse for it. But in this case? If the roles were reversed my feelings would not alter. Not a fucking iota.
Just fire her authority abusing ass and be done with it. Sending her to a system filled with real rapist, murderers, and other hardened criminals is ridiculous and a waste of everyone's time and money. And anyone who agrees with it needs to take a step back and reassess their zero tolerance bullshit and use some god damn common sense for a change.
But prison time? For this? Really? Fucking for REAL?! Why can't we use common sense and stop wasting tax dollars in this country? What she did was wrong. No doubt. But she is not a threat to fucking society people. Jesus Christ...
And you know what, usually I do have a double standard when it comes to these type of stories when they involve Man/Girl or Woman/boy. Admittedly, I'm usually more lenient in favor of the women and more harsh when it comes to the men. It's wrong of me and I have no excuse for it. But in this case? If the roles were reversed my feelings would not alter. Not a fucking iota.
Just fire her authority abusing ass and be done with it. Sending her to a system filled with real rapist, murderers, and other hardened criminals is ridiculous and a waste of everyone's time and money. And anyone who agrees with it needs to take a step back and reassess their zero tolerance bullshit and use some god damn common sense for a change.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Is there a teacher in Texas here on GAF? I have to imagine that on your first day they drill that into your head.
lol in what universe do you live in where students religiously obey teachers?
Can a prisoner call 911? A prisoner has there rights significantly more restricted than a student to a point where its not even comparable. There are outlets for the student. Not for the prisoner.
This would be kind of difficult to pull off because they'd have a hard time doing this in private and it could be at least considered indecent exposure if other prisoners saw I imagine?
But other than that, no it shouldn't be illegal, even though it probably is. If it can't be proven that any sort of manipulation is happening than yes it should just be assumed that it is consensual. Does it not seem kind of wrong to punish someone based on assumptions and not proof and hard evidence?
SnakeswithLasers
Member
The courts don't have a place in anyone's sex life. People are entitled to their own private lives, this has been established.
I don't see where it has been ruled that an 18 year old is not allowed to make decisions about with whom they have sex. I also do not see a law that expressly forbids having a non-sexual relationship with a person under the age of 18.
I believe the relationship is unprofessional, but it should not be illegal. You people that think the government should step in and incarcerate people are just as crazy as you think the rest of us are.
Big Baybee
Member
Yea, she should not be allowed to teach. You can't fuck students even if they are of legal age. But calling this rape...........I don't agree with that.
Wafflecakes
Member
What part of "Not saying that is the case here. Thats the gist of it though" was complicated? Never said I believed it either. Thats just the argument behind the idea (and yes I do know people who are that stupid and would obey their teacher...but they are rare).
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
All? None. The ones that have a chance to get into a good University? Lots.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Suppose it was a boss and their employee. Subordinate relationship where there is a clear power dynamic that can be abused.
Suppose it is a 35 year old boss and their 18 year old employee. The 18 year old has been working there since they were 16 and they had a relationship that was not sexual until it was legal. Should that be outlawed?
Suppose it's a 28 year old coach (not school) and their 18 year old athlete. They have been coaching them since they were younger. Is that illegal?
evil solrac v3.0
Member
at first I was hot and bothered by all these teacher/student stories. but now this shit is getting out of hand and it's going way beyond predatory. and it's not confined to just one state and/or country either.
VelvetMouth
Member
What sane adult who's been through college and spent years working as a teacher goes on to having sex with a child that's basically in their care? How fucked in the head do you have to be to look at a kid in your class, a kid you have authority over I might add, and all you can think about is how you're going to fuck them?
This thread and people trying to justify this kind of behavior is quite scary because it reminds you that there are people so desperate for sex that they would excuse deviant sexual behavior.
While I think it silly to have no consequences, I think TWENTY years in jail is absolutely 'unjust' in this case. The punishment does not at all fit the crime.
The crime is a gross misuse of power and authority. Firing her and making sure she can never teach ever again seems appropriate.
Jail time seems a bit extreme, but I can understand it somewhat. Just not 20 years of it.
I mean, in this scenario, what purpose does putting her in jail for such a prolonged period of time actually accomplish?
The crime is a gross misuse of power and authority. Firing her and making sure she can never teach ever again seems appropriate.
Jail time seems a bit extreme, but I can understand it somewhat. Just not 20 years of it.
I mean, in this scenario, what purpose does putting her in jail for such a prolonged period of time actually accomplish?
Blackace
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