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[Boem]

Jesus people on Gaf are bloodthirsty. In my country (Netherlands) jailtime isn't just punishment, it's meant as rehabilitation and finding a way to get these people back into society as functional citizens. I'm pretty sure that's - officially - the case in the US as well, no matter what the public might think (or what, given some judges you guys have over there, the reality sometimes is). It's none of the 'eye for an eye' business people are shouting for here. Yes, it's tragic what happened, but destroying the lives of 2 more kids who made a (very) stupid mistake isn't bringing those people back. Keep in mind, we have no idea how old they are. They could be 16, they could be 6. We simply don't know.

To the people saying the shouldn't be try them as adults, what's kind of huge difference is in the mind of a 16/17 year old and a 18 year old? is it really that huge?

These guys killed 14 people, injured more than a hundred and according to some they don't deserve to be punish.

They will be punished. That's what juvenile court is for. They won't get some ice cream and a pat on the back.

These kids did something fucked up, and there should be consequences to that, yes.

They also have the deaths of many people on their hands. They would need to be complete psychopaths if that didn't fuck with them at all. They need help, guidance, and yes, punishment, and hopefully they'll come out of it as better people who would never do something so stupid again.

But I guess I might sound too hippy-dippy lefty-wefty for some people here. I hope to God their identities won't be revealed to the public, given the immediate bloodthirsty gut reactions here on Gaf.

Fighting tragedy with prolonging the suffering and enacting revenge isn't healthy, useful, or in any way an adult response. That's the kind of Wild West attitude populist politicians like Trump build on.

 

[Zekes!]

To the people saying the shouldn't be try them as adults, what's kind of huge difference is in the mind of a 16/17 year old and a 18 year old? is it really that huge?

These guys killed 14 people, injured more than a hundred and according to some they don't deserve to be punish.

Yes it is. I know that 18 is the legal adult age for most places but it's basically arbitrary. Developmentally your brain stops developing at around age 25.

People like to say teenagers should know better and are old enough to understand certain things etc. etc., but that's not entirely true and the way teenagers act is a result of biology and where they're at developmentally.

Yes they should face consequences for their actions but they are not adults and should not be tried as adults.

 

[digita1alchemy]

Completely arbitrary and unlawful.

This is kind of how it works, actually, except there are definite guidelines. Every state as a list of especially violent crimes that if committed by a juvenile, make them eligible for being tried as an adult if they are within the minimum age (usually 16), which varies by state. Tennessee actually has no minimum age, it seems. I would imagine the thinking behind these kinds of laws is that people who commit what are considered to be the most heinous crimes (murder, rape, etc.) pose a danger to the public regardless of age, and thus require stiffer prosecution.

Now how fairly these guidelines are interpreted and enforced is another debate, but there are laws for this stuff.

 

[Pollux]

No, trying minors as adults shouldn't even be an option, it doesn't matter what they did or what the consequences of their actions were. Minors belong in a juvenile court!

As a former juvenile prosecutor I can't stress enough how naive this mindset it. I don't know about the current case but there are definitely juveniles who, for a variety of reasons, should be transferred to the adult court system.

Not going to comment on the Tennessee fire case since I don't know any of the facts.

 

[AtomskEater]

It's not arbitrary. A 4-year-old is not the same as a 17 and 364 day old.

It absolutely is arbitrary. The example ages the person CrocMother responded to used were 15-17, not a day short of 18. How low should that age be pushed, and under what circumstances? If a 7 year old does something intentionally that results in a hundred lives lost, does that change circumstances and require they be charged as an adult? The laws aren't perfect and they might leave a bad taste in your mouth because you feel someone's getting off with a slap on the wrist, but if we want them changed we have to consider clear outlines to prevent abuse and outlandish punishments on children.

This is kind of how it works, actually, except there are of course definite guidelines. Every state as a list of especially violent crimes that if committed by a juvenile, make them eligible for being tried as an adult if they are within the minimum age (usually 16), which varies by state. Tennessee actually has no minimum age. I would imagine the thinking behind these kinds of laws is that people who commit what are considered to be the most heinous crimes (murder, rape, etc.) pose a danger to the public regardless of age, and thus require stiffer prosecution.

TN has no minimum age? Hm. I can agree with the logic behind it. Although the amount of death and destruction that ensued from whatever this kids did is tragic I want more facts on what the hell they were doing. Fireworks? Setting trees or old buildings on fire? Arson does imply this was an intentionally lit fire but I know several people who messed around with fire when they were younger and COULD have started some shit on accident but luckily never did.
Some people were saying they should be tried as adults without knowing if they were even in the teenage bracket.

 

[Jenov]

I think the main thing here will be intent. We haven't been given hardly any info other than it was juveniles.

 

[CrocMother]

As a former juvenile prosecutor I can't stress enough how naive this mindset it. I don't know about the current case but there are definitely juveniles who, for a variety of reasons, should be transferred to the adult court system.

Not going to comment on the Tennessee fire case since I don't know any of the facts.

Being black seems to be one of the main reasons.

 

[louiedog]

I wonder if they'd be sent out of state somewhere to serve sentences. I can't imagine any juvenile center or prison nearby isn't filled with inmates with close friends who lost a lot as a result.

 

[Velcro Fly]

I think the main thing here will be intent. We haven't been given hardly any info other than it was juveniles.

They are classifying it as arson and charging them, so some intent has to be there.

 

[Emerson]

I'm gonna go ahead and say that whether this case should be tried in adult court should be left up to the court which will consider, among other things, the ages of the offenders and the severity of the crime they committed. As they always do.

To say "juveniles should never be tried in adult court" or "juveniles committing X crime should always be tried in adult court" are equally valueless statements.

 

[FStop7]

A defense force for everything.

 

[Ivan 3414]

Do bad grownup shit, get judged like one.

Awfully simplistic of you

 

[digita1alchemy]

TN has no minimum age? Hm.

I have no legal background what-so-ever, but it appears that way: https://www.ojjdp.gov/pubs/tryingjuvasadult/states/tn.html. So it is likely handled purely on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Ivan 3414]

A defense force for everything.

What is being defended here

 

[NealMcCauley]

I suppose they can also be charged with violating the governor's ban on open-air burning that was issued in mid-November.

 

[Rked]

Pretty sure this is terrorism

 

[karmaforgotme]

Before you say these kids should be tried as adults or juvenlies while don't you let some more facts come out first (like age and what happen). The GSMNP is where I spend my weekends hiking and camping. I love it with a passion, but god dang the internet quit being so knee jerky.

It's amazing that they can figure out who starts these huge fires.

Due to it's short length (2 miles one way) and the views at top, the Chimney Tops is a pretty popular trail in GSMNP (it is funny watching people without water hiking it not knowing its a 1500 foot climb in 2 miles). They took a lot of statements from people who hiked that day. There was even a video someone did that day of hiking it the whole thing. It sounds like they got tip off by someone who was on the trail that day or those kids were talking to friends.

Also it sounds like some of the fires in Gatlinburg might have no relation to the Chimney Top 2 fire (it is in the park a little over 10 miles away) that these kids alleged started. The Fire Chief said earlier that some of the fires in town were started by fallen power lines. Not sure if that is still true or not, or if the Chimney Top fire is solely responsible for the Gatlinburg fires.

 

[Boem]

A defense force for everything.

Either explain your position or don't post at all man. Drive-by posting just for the sake of stirring shit up without putting yourself in the line of fire is just lame as hell.

Your post doesn't even make sense. Who's defending what here? Nobody is defending forest fires, and nobody is claiming the deaths and damages aren't a tragedy. There is discussion about people's reactions that these kids should be tried as adults (like my own post above), but at least most people here actually try to explain what they're thinking instead of this type of twitter fight nonsense.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

By murder I assume you mean manslaughter right? I thought murder was intentionally killing someone, premeditated.

Whereas this they started a fire and that fire killed people unbeknownst to the teens.

What kind of fire was it anyway? Aggravated arson? So starting a fire to cause a wildfire or "just kids blowing off steam" leading to a massive tragedy.

I don't think we should be throwing the book at them anyway, prison system isn't going to shape and create better people out of them and at 14 you're still young and learning. Sending em to prison would probably further increase the risk to society further down the line when they get out.

I'd say community service for 10 years and prison on weekends for 10 years.

 

[What did he mean by this?]

Life sentences* for both of them





*of community service

 

[NealMcCauley]

More info.

The teenagers charged with setting the fire in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park that ultimately spread to torch thousands of homes and businesses and kill 14 people were horsing around with matches, sources say.

The boys, ages 17 and 15, were charged this week in Sevier County Juvenile Court with aggravated arson in the Nov. 28 wildfires that shut down the city of Gatlinburg at the height of its winter tourism season and damaged or destroyed more than 2,400 homes and businesses. The death toll included two children and a woman who died fleeing the flames

The two friends are in separate legal postures as they are currently charged. Aggravated arson is not a qualifying offense that would allow a judge to transfer the 15-year-old to be tried as an adult in Criminal Court. Under state law, prosecutors can seek to transfer defendants under the age of 16 to adult court only if they are charged with a set list of the most heinous crimes, including murder, rape, robbery and kidnapping. But the law allows a 17-year-old defendant to be tried as an adult for any crime if prosecutors can convince a Juvenile Court judge to grant the transfer.

The boys are not charged in the fire deaths, but aggravated arson is a crime for which a charge of felony murder — a death that results from the commission of certain felonies -- can be legally supported. If Dunn seeks felony murder charges, the 15-year-old boy would then qualify to be considered for trial as an adult.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Being black seems to be one of the main reasons.

Jog on with that shit if it isn't related.

Anyway, what would be the difference here in juvenile court from the norm? The loss of life and damage done seems like it would still be a heavy sentencequipment regardless.