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[KSweeley]

Effective earlier this month (July 1st) is D.C.'s first minimum wage increase on it's way to having a $15 minimum wage by 2020 then after it goes to $15, it will increase each successive year beginning in 2021 in proportion to the increase in the Consumer Price Index.

What's interesting, is every law that is passed by the D.C. City Council and the Mayor is then sent to U.S. Congress for a legislative review period where Congress can decide to veto the bill which means it won't become law or they would allow it which means the law goes into effect.

I'm rather upset that U.S. Congress is unwilling to raise the federal minimum wage but allowed D.C. to have a $15 minimum wage.

Link: https://mayor.dc.gov/release/mayor-bowser-marks-first-step-toward-15-minimum-wage

Mayor Bowser Marks the First Step Toward a $15 Minimum Wage

Friday, June 30, 2017
Highlights Milestone Under the Fair Shot Minimum Wage Amendment Act of 2016

Today, Mayor Bowser marked the first increase to DC’s minimum wage under the #Fightfor15 legislation that she introduced in 2016. Effective July 1, 2017, the minimum wage for District workers will increase from $11.50 per hour to $12.50 per hour, and the minimum wage for tipped workers will increase from $2.77 per hour to $3.33 per hour. This is the first raise for tipped workers in the last 12 years.

“In a city as prosperous as ours, we must pay our residents a fair wage,” said Mayor Bowser. “In Washington, DC, low wages prevent working families from getting their fair shot, which is why we fought to increase DC’s minimum wage to $15 by 2020. This increase will put more money in the pockets of working families, and put more people on pathways to the middle class.”

In the Mayor’s 2016 State of the District Address, she promised to send legislation to the DC Council to increase DC’s minimum wage to $15 per hour by 2020. On June 21, 2016, the DC Council voted unanimously to pass the Fair Shot Minimum Wage Amendment Act of 2016. This week’s increase marks the first time the minimum wage has gone up under the Mayor’s legislation. Under the law, the minimum wage will increase to $15.00 per hour by 2020, and will increase each successive year beginning in 2021 in proportion to the increase in the Consumer Price Index.

 

[Widdle Puppy]

Poverty wages

$25 minimum wage nationwide

 

[Bornstellar]

Doesn't make sense for everywhere. Cost of living differs dramatically across the nation.

 

[bigkrev]

$15 is a poverty wage in DC.

 

[Drkirby]

One argument I have heard against a national $15 minimum wage is that it would negatively impact the poorest states. Increasing the minimum wage in DC does not go against that notion.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Should be that everywhere. I agree with Sanders on that.

Its $7.25 here in Texas. Just how does one live on that? its ridiculous.

 

[Wafflecakes]

Poverty wages

$25 minimum wage nationwide

Yeah.... no.


$15 is reasonable for a place like DC with higher cost of living. I would for sure support a $12 national minimum wage.

 

[NullPointer]

Doesn't make sense for everywhere. Cost of living differs dramatically across the nation.

Agree with this.

Am all for minimum wage increases, but they should be enacted on the local level rather than trying to manage some one-size-fits all rate at federal level.

 

[KSweeley]

Agree with this.

Am all for minimum wage increases, but they should be enacted on the local level rather than trying to manage some one-size-fits all rate at federal level.

How do you propose forcing local levels to increase the minimum wage then?

 

[NullPointer]

How do you propose forcing local levels to increase the minimum wage then?

I don't.

Local communities can do it themselves, with rates that make sense for those areas.

 

[KSweeley]

I don't.

Local communities can do it themselves.

Not if states pass laws that preempt municipalities, here in Maryland, a Democrat proposed a law that would preempt any municipality attempt to raise the minimum wage and that it would remain at the state or federal legislated minimum wage, fortunately that law didn't make it through the General Assembly.

 

[Evolved1]

Poverty wages

$25 minimum wage nationwide

Conservatives are always easy to spot because they suck at satire. They lack nuance.

 

[SPEA]

Poverty wages

$25 minimum wage nationwide

Where exactly would that money come from?

 

[Sutton Dagger]

Holy shit at the tipped workers minimum wage.... no wonder we always have lively tipping threads. It's disgraceful that people could get paid $3.33 an hour with a higher wage based on the whim of customers.

 

[Vicetrailia]

I don't.

Local communities can do it themselves, with rates that make sense for those areas.

What happens when they don't because they're evil. What happens when they block cities for doing so being they're evil?

 

[Mr.Mike]

Would a national minimum wage even matter?

 

[bigkrev]

Holy shit at the tipped workers minimum wage.... no wonder we always have lively tipping threads. It's disgraceful that people could get paid $3.33 an hour with a higher wage based on the whim of customers.

If they aren't making minimum wage after tips, the employer needs to make up the difference

 

[Xelinis]

What happens when they don't because they're evil.

Local elections are a thing.

What happens when they block cities for doing so being they're evil?

This is what we need to address directly.

 

[VariantX]

Doesn't make sense for everywhere. Cost of living differs dramatically across the nation.

Yes. $15 dollar minimum wage just doesn't make sense when applied everywhere at once.

 

[KSweeley]

This sort of proposed law would NOT allow any localities to set wages or benefits: http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?pid=billpage&tab=subject3&id=hb0317&stab=01&ys=2017RS

Limiting the authority of the Commissioner of Labor and Industry to enforce a local minimum wage law; prohibiting a county or municipality from enacting a law that regulates wages or benefits for employees other than employees of the county or municipality; and prohibiting a law enacted by a county or municipality that regulates wages or benefits for employees other than employees of the county or municipality from being enforced if the specified provision was enacted on or after January 1, 2017; etc.

 

[jdstorm]

I don't.

Local communities can do it themselves, with rates that make sense for those areas.

Except by doing that you are isolating communities by geography. Should a minimum wage worker in Arizona not be making the same money as a person doing the same job in San Francisco? America is afterall one country.

 

[conpfreak]

$15 is a poverty wage in DC.

Sadly, it is. $900 for a one bedroom (very optimistic estimate) in a very sketchy part in the Beltway without utilities, $250 for food and $240 for unlimited Metro rail if you live by and can utilize metro and not including bus fare. $739 left with 40 hour $15 hourly wage. So you can sleep, eat, and travel within that range. Add $50 a month for a prepaid phone, some form of health insurance, and utilities, and you dealing with under $400 for discretionary income. Can't save with that income and with one financial hiccup, you're pretty much screwed.

 

[Servbot24]

A national minimum wage makes no sense since obviously living in LA is different than living in DesMoines. I would still like to see some kind of federal standard implemented, though I don't have the answer to the best way to calculate it.

 

[AbsolutBro]

Yeah.... no.


$15 is reasonable for a place like DC with higher cost of living. I would for sure support a $12 national minimum wage.

bullshit it is

 

[NullPointer]

Except by doing that you are isolating communities by geography. Should a minimum wage worker in Arizona not be making the same money as a person doing the same job in San Francisco? America is afterall one country.

We aren't though. We're a collection of states and localities that do things differently.

San Francisco's high wages get eaten up by staggering San Francisco rental costs and all the assorted madness to our cost of living. In terms of wages and costs San Francisco is *not* a model to be emulated, so I'm thankful that different areas have different economies and different costs of living. Minimum wage in SF would not make sense applied to the nation as a whole.

The only thing I'd agree to on a federal level is some kind of formula based upon principle, rather than fixed amounts. Say, the median wages for full time work should be able to buy into median housing costs - not that exactly but something along those lines. A formula that applies throughout but ends up with working with local variables and leading to local values. Fixed amounts on the federal level don't make sense unless they're the very lowest end possible across the nation, and I doubt that would help matters.

 

[Servbot24]

bullshit it is

I don't know much about DC, but looking at the craigslist listings it seems there are a wide variety of options. Getting your own single bedroom apartment I can imagine being pretty expensive, but I mean that will run you around $1000 here in Austin, TX, and this is considered a pretty reasonable place to live.

 

[Instro]

Flat minimum wage hikes here and there seem kind of silly. Couldn't we just have a federal law that stipulates how minimum wage must be calculated at a local level, and enforce that the value is rechecked every couple years to ensure that the current minimum is still applicable?

The idea of using the CPI as mentioned in the OP makes sense.

 

[Havok1313]

Except by doing that you are isolating communities by geography. Should a minimum wage worker in Arizona not be making the same money as a person doing the same job in San Francisco? America is afterall one country.

I mean, yes, those people should be making different amounts of money. The cost of living in those areas is vastly different.

America is one country, but with states that are larger than a lot of other countries in the world. Some places have crazy dense population, some have barely any people at all. You can't treat it all the same economically.

Also yes, $15 is still not even a living wage for D.C. but it's a start

 

[ahoyhoy]

$15 is a poverty wage in DC.

Plenty of apartments to be had on the fringes or just outside the city.

Ain't gonna live in Dupont on that wage, no.

 

[Wafflecakes]

bullshit it is

Minimum wage needs raised, yes.

However, I am not in the camp that a person should necessarily be able to raise a family with a stay at home spouse on a minimum wage.

A single person should be able to sustain themselves at minimum wage... which isn't possible sub $10.

 

[conpfreak]

I mean, yes, those people should be making different amounts of money. The cost of living in those areas is vastly different.

America is one country, but with states that are larger than a lot of other countries in the world. Some places have crazy dense population, some have barely any people at all. You can't treat it all the same economically.

Also yes, $15 is still not even a living wage for D.C. but it's a start

$15 an hour is a start, but I think proponents and opponents of a higher minimum wage increase need to understand that the minimum wage is not meant to be a living wage and that 40 hour work weeks are not sufficient at $15. When both sides can accept this, we can then start the discussion about whether it's proper to treat the minimum wage as a basis for a living wage (it's not), instead of using other standards to gauge the true cost of existing as a adult in these areas.

 

[Xelinis]

Except by doing that you are isolating communities by geography. Should a minimum wage worker in Arizona not be making the same money as a person doing the same job in San Francisco? America is afterall one country.

Yes, one country. One country that's extremely diverse in culture, values, and (most importantly for the context of this discussion) economics. Factors like cost of living, taxes, business friendliness, union laws, and demand for specific kinds of goods can vary wildly between different cities, let alone different states.

Heck, even just here in San Francisco, we see massive economic disparities walking from one neighborhood to another. Last year, we raised the minimum wage from $12/hr to $13/hr, and the effects have been all over the place. Affluent neighborhoods like FiDi, Hayes Valley, and Russian Hill are still doing extremely well (and could probably accommodate even higher wages), but areas like the Mission, Tenderloin, and the Sunset have seen huge waves of small business closures and job losses. In those areas, the only businesses that are surviving are the corporate-chain outlets and high-end boutiques.

Most of the ma' and pa' shops in those areas suffering, and even more are set to close down now that the wage's been increased to $14/hr as of last week. I voted for the increase in 2013; this isn't what I wanted.

 

[Widdle Puppy]

Where exactly would that money come from?

Through a complete dismantling and redistribution of wealth from the oligarchs and corporations.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

I don't.

Local communities can do it themselves, with rates that make sense for those areas.

But they don't do that now. All while ensuring it's as difficult as possible to provide basic safety nets important for basic human function.

So at what point do you force the issue? I agree $15 may not be the answer everywhere. But $7.25 is likely the answer nowhere.

 

[Widdle Puppy]

Yeah.... no.


$15 is reasonable for a place like DC with higher cost of living. I would for sure support a $12 national minimum wage.

No it isn't. That is barely 30k a year. Minimum salary needed to live a decent life in usa is 35k. No way anyone can save or buy a house on 15 an hour.

 

[TarNaru33]

Agree with this.

Am all for minimum wage increases, but they should be enacted on the local level rather than trying to manage some one-size-fits all rate at federal level.

Doesn't make sense for everywhere. Cost of living differs dramatically across the nation.

Wish people would stop peddling this BS, most of the country is in cities now and that will keep increasing as Rural areas die out.

$15 should be the NATIONAL minimum wage and pegged to national inflation with locals deciding to go higher than that if they see fit. It can't be locally done because the Republicans hold considerable power at the local level (even in "democratic" states) and a national increase would mean no real increase for millions of people.

 

[rambis]

A national minimum wage makes no sense since obviously living in LA is different than living in DesMoines. I would still like to see some kind of federal standard implemented, though I don't have the answer to the best way to calculate it.

The National minimum wage serves as a floor when some state leg's don't want to respond to market demands. Its only meant to cover the poorest markets. Most states set their own which will sometimes be higher to reflect their demands.

 

[NullPointer]

Wish people would stop peddling this BS, most of the country is in cities now and that will keep increasing as Rural areas die out.

Kind of hard to have a discussion in good faith if you accuse me of "peddling BS"

I'm open to new information and to having my mind changed - but not so cool with being insulted or being construed as hawking some agenda.

 

[Theonik]

$15 is a poverty wage in DC.

The keyword in minimum wage is the minimum part. As in all wages will be at least that.

 

[cheezcake]

Why does conversation around minimum wage always have to boil down to one number?

Is not not visible for federal government to mandate minimum wage based on a fixed metric per state which accounts for cost of living, etc?

 

[Theonik]

Why does conversation around minimum wage always have to boil down to one number?

Is not not visible for federal government to mandate minimum wage based on a fixed metric per state which accounts for cost of living, etc?

I mean, setting it to a reasonable level and pegging it to CPI is a good first step in keeping it in line with price increases.

As for a relative metric to start the peg that's quite subjective.

 

[Piggus]

Poverty wages

$25 minimum wage nationwide

I'm all for increasing the minimum (which my state has done already and is one of the highest in the country), but you may want to talk to some business owners about why that wouldn't work.

 

[TarNaru33]

Kind of hard to have a discussion in good faith if you accuse me of "peddling BS"

I'm open to new information and to having my mind changed - but not so cool with being insulted or being construed as hawking some agenda.

It is annoying seeing people make the argument you are, sorry about that. While what you are saying is the ideal way to do it, realistically for U.S this is the worst way to go about it for the reasons I stated. It would only result in prolonged suffering for U.S workers. A federal increase to a level of $15 or $12 is the best way to go about it and this does not even reach the living standard of many cities with higher population.

As a person who lives in a cheap city, I can assure you $12 is the least I would say someone should work for while living alone.

I'm all for increasing the minimum (which my state has done already and is one of the highest in the country), but you may want to talk to some business owners about why that wouldn't work.

I assumed that guy was joking.

 

[kswiston]

$3.33 an hour if you are wait staff is insane.

 

[Piggus]

$3.33 an hour if you are wait staff is insane.

That kind of shit is illegal on the west coast.

 

[Brakke]

Why does conversation around minimum wage always have to boil down to one number?

Is not not visible for federal government to mandate minimum wage based on a fixed metric per state which accounts for cost of living, etc?

Even states are too broad an aggregation though. The minimum wage that makes sense in Seattle is different than the one that makes sense in Spokane. Those are wildly different communities with basically zero commuter overlap.

Personally I think minimum wage is a kludge. If the thing you want is for people to 1) work and 2) have a decent standard of living, then introduce programs to stimulate jobs and also introduce programs to ensure a decent standard of living. Minimum wage puts those goals at cross purposes, as it necessarily distorts job markets.

Most minimum wage jobs are traps. Working at McDonalds is a dead-end with little-to-no opportunity for personal growth, development, or enrichment. Id rather support those people directly so they can pursue a next step onto a career path than make the trap appear more enticing.

 

[cheezcake]

Even states are too broad an aggregation though. The minimum wage that makes sense in Seattle is different than the one that makes sense in Spokane. Those are wildly different communities with basically zero commuter overlap.

Personally I think minimum wage is a kludge. If the thing you want is for people to 1) work and 2) have a decent standard of living, then introduce programs to stimulate jobs and also introduce programs to ensure a decent standard of living. Minimum wage puts those goals at cross purposes, as it necessarily distorts job markets.

Most minimum wage jobs are traps. Working at McDonalds is a dead-end with little-to-no opportunity for personal growth, development, or enrichment. Id rather support those people directly so they can pursue a next step onto a career path than make the trap appear more enticing.

Yeh I understand that but, and I'm not American I could be very wrong here, do you have legal entities at a level more granular than a state which could realistically mandate and regulate minimum wages?

I don't really think I can agree with your 2nd and 3rd points, relatively high minimum wages work just fine here in Australia and a bunch of other countries. Minimum wage is a great simple mechanism which acts as a safety net for those who do get stuck in those 'traps'.

 

[The Faceless Master]

what's great is when the local govt does decide to do something and then the state is like lol no.

 

[TarNaru33]

what's great is when the local govt does decide to do something and then the state is like lol no.

Which is why we can't rely on local increases, especially since U.S minimums are way too low.

Yeh I understand that but, and I'm not American I could be very wrong here, do you have legal entities at a level more granular than a state which could realistically mandate and regulate minimum wages?

I don't really think I can agree with your 2nd and 3rd points, relatively high minimum wages work just fine here in Australia and a bunch of other countries. Minimum wage is a great simple mechanism which acts as a safety net for those who do get stuck in those 'traps'.

Yes, the issue is a lot of the positions are controlled by those that think an increase is not necessary and even when some do think it is and do increase it, the state would sometimes intervene anyways.

 

[makingmusic476]

I don't.

Local communities can do it themselves, with rates that make sense for those areas.

Problem is local communities are often split into a mismash of different cities and unincorporated territory.

New Orleans could raise its minimum wage, but 2/3rds of the metro area would be left out in the cold. And the state put in place laws a century ago that explicitly forbid New Orleans (and only New Orleans, for explicitly political purposes) from annexing new territory, which is why the city hasn't grown in geographical size at all since.

Most other cities (like Houston) have patches of unannexed territory scattered throughout them where an increase in the minimum wage would not apply.