Uematsu: Square collapsed after Sakaguchi left. Situation was awful after he quit.
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Jinzo Prime
Gold Member
It sometimes feels like they still haven't recovered.
TonberrysKnife
Member
Sakaguchi is truly the reason why Square/Squaresoft/Square Enix did not go out of business in the late 80's. If he didn't make Final Fantasy, then the company would have been long gone. Hence, the name "Final Fantasy" stuck. It was Squaresoft's "Final" attempt to turn around the company and if they didn't, they would be finished. So, Sakaguchi called his potentially "final" game, Final Fantasy. The fact that the company is still going on without him is a truly a miracle. Because, to me he IS the company; along with Uematsu/Mitsuda/Matsuno.
It's one of the reasons why I call Lost Odyssey the REAL Final Fantasy XIII.
It's one of the reasons why I call Lost Odyssey the REAL Final Fantasy XIII.
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Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
If you'd told me during the PS1 era that Square would be all but irrelevant today, I don't think there's any way I would've believed you. It can be hard to remember just how dominant they were back then, but they really did fall off a cliff, even if they do have the occasional good game here and there.
TonberrysKnife
Member
Not to go off topic here. Many of us still remember the Squaresoft Renaissance in the late 90s/early 00's. I feel that if they can give a lot of their old IP's the remaster treatment, they could recover even more here.
- Bushido Blade
- Einhander
- Parasite Eve 1 & 2
- Brave Fencer Musashi and Samurai Legend: Musashi
- Vagrant Story
- Ergheiz
- Tobal No 1 & 2 (RIP Akira Toriyama)
- Threads of Fate/Dewprism
Walliwallipaloo
Member
I figured that even back then. With hindsight, it's even more clear now.
Zacfoldor
Member
I weep for my once favorite gaming company.
There is still plenty to love there if they can get their act together. Rebirth has some real bright spots and games like Triangle Strategy, Octopath 2, and Bravely Default are great. They still control so much great IP like Vagrant Story, Parasite Eve, Final Fantasy, but wow have they been mismanaged.
It is very clear that at some point they decided to stop playing to their strengths and to try to trend chase in ways that are foreign to them.(fucking avengers, lol, fucking foamstars, lol)
They have searched so hard for ways to cash in on viral success and the irony is that if they had kept their nose to the grindstone and played to their strengths, they would be going viral organically for their unique talent. They still have the ingredients for excellence but they are like a kid with low self esteem. They always thought what every other publisher had was better than what they were creating and that is such a bullshit and wrong thought. They have something they do best and if they stick to that and try to parlay that they will find success. Find your niche and grow it like Owlcat or so many others who are doing just that. Stop trendchasing. If they wanna keep acting like a venture capitalist runs the company they will lose what they have left. I expect better management than this out of Japan. Short cheese bullshit.
The overlapping competing titles being released back to back had to be a red flag internally. Somebody was asleep at the wheel over there for a decade.
There is still plenty to love there if they can get their act together. Rebirth has some real bright spots and games like Triangle Strategy, Octopath 2, and Bravely Default are great. They still control so much great IP like Vagrant Story, Parasite Eve, Final Fantasy, but wow have they been mismanaged.
It is very clear that at some point they decided to stop playing to their strengths and to try to trend chase in ways that are foreign to them.(fucking avengers, lol, fucking foamstars, lol)
They have searched so hard for ways to cash in on viral success and the irony is that if they had kept their nose to the grindstone and played to their strengths, they would be going viral organically for their unique talent. They still have the ingredients for excellence but they are like a kid with low self esteem. They always thought what every other publisher had was better than what they were creating and that is such a bullshit and wrong thought. They have something they do best and if they stick to that and try to parlay that they will find success. Find your niche and grow it like Owlcat or so many others who are doing just that. Stop trendchasing. If they wanna keep acting like a venture capitalist runs the company they will lose what they have left. I expect better management than this out of Japan. Short cheese bullshit.
The overlapping competing titles being released back to back had to be a red flag internally. Somebody was asleep at the wheel over there for a decade.
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SkylineRKR
Member
PSX Squaresoft is hands down the best publisher ever. For me there is simply no contest.
I mean this company released the best JRPGs ever in FFVII, Xenogears, FFT and Vagrant Story but also branched out to games like Einhander (one of the best shmups ever), Bushido Blade, Tobal and Internal Section. When Square announced something I was put on notice. I even dabbled with Racing Lagoon and Cyberorg to name a few very obscure JP games.
I finished PE last christmas and its every bit as good as I remembered.
I mean this company released the best JRPGs ever in FFVII, Xenogears, FFT and Vagrant Story but also branched out to games like Einhander (one of the best shmups ever), Bushido Blade, Tobal and Internal Section. When Square announced something I was put on notice. I even dabbled with Racing Lagoon and Cyberorg to name a few very obscure JP games.
I finished PE last christmas and its every bit as good as I remembered.
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TonberrysKnife
Member
Agreed. If they would just stick to what they know and do best, then it wouldn't be so bad.
Wildebeest
Member
Nobody cares about what Sakaguchi does because he can't use the name Final Fantasy and that is all the nostalgic nerds care about.
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
I wonder if hasn't happened since this was the Square/EA era. Maybe a rights issue with EA?
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Well that's where you're wrong. Lost Odyssey is incredible and actually has good writing unlike all of the FF after he left.
Walliwallipaloo
Member
My wife and I were the exact same growing up: we saw the Squaresoft logo, we were instantly interested. They basically owned the PS1. Some of the best games on that console were produced by Square. My childhood (the good parts of it anyway) was defined by their creative output.
The fact I just write them off now by default is kind of insane, really. It's a shame.
Parasite Eve 2 is one of the best games I've ever had the pleasure of enjoying. I know that I'll never get a proper sequel to it, or even anything like it. Final Fantasy is just done and dusted, and that's a shame, too.
le sigh
The fact I just write them off now by default is kind of insane, really. It's a shame.
Parasite Eve 2 is one of the best games I've ever had the pleasure of enjoying. I know that I'll never get a proper sequel to it, or even anything like it. Final Fantasy is just done and dusted, and that's a shame, too.
le sigh
Killer8
Member
His own output after he left isn't that interesting. Lost Odyssey was great ("the real Final Fantasy XIII" etc). But Blue Dragon was like baby's first JRPG, Terra Battle looked like gacha slop, and the Fantasian demo didn't do anything for me.
I don't want to undermine the man's legacy as his run in the 90s is one of the greatest of all time but it seems like he needed Square Enix's budget and brand names as much as Square Enix needed his design skills. Even then, SE can still put out some great games without him in the last 20 years like Rebirth, FF14, DQXI, Nier Automata, Bravely Default, Tactics Ogre etc.
He also lost Square a ton of money directing The Spirits Within, one of the worst CG movies of all time, which just kind of gets glossed over when discussing his departure.
I don't want to undermine the man's legacy as his run in the 90s is one of the greatest of all time but it seems like he needed Square Enix's budget and brand names as much as Square Enix needed his design skills. Even then, SE can still put out some great games without him in the last 20 years like Rebirth, FF14, DQXI, Nier Automata, Bravely Default, Tactics Ogre etc.
He also lost Square a ton of money directing The Spirits Within, one of the worst CG movies of all time, which just kind of gets glossed over when discussing his departure.
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Hypereides
Member
No shit. Uematsu also alluded to this in an old 1UP interview with James Mielke, way back, shortly after the merger. He insinuated that Sakaguchi was a big piece in their success. Found the article for context (link). Here's an excerpt:
You can notice how the company began to increasingly flounder creatively after his departure.
(...)
1UP: Back on the topic of Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within specifically -- you know, there was a lot of excitement leading up to the release of the movie, and I was at a couple of the media events and also the fan events, which let me witness sneak previews of the fan reaction, which was so overwhelmingly positive, and it seemed like such good times. But after Spirits Within came out...I guess it just wasn't the right time or the right place -- North America.
The consumer reaction, how many people went to go see it, wasn't very much, and it became a big financial failure for Square, and despite how much Sakaguchi-san had done for Square, it was this project that kind of led to his eventually leaving the company. Looking back, do you think that was a sad moment, especially considering how much he had done for the company and where he had brought the company? Japanese companies in general seem to be quick to look for a scapegoat whenever something doesn't go right. How did you feel about what happened with Sakaguchi-san?
NU: [Long pause] No matter what happens in the future with the company of SquareEnix and with the individual Sakaguchi, one thing that's not going to change is that he is the father of Final Fantasy. He made the series. And it was a difficult time when he left Square -- at that time it was still Square. As an individual myself, as someone who creates content, not purely for business purposes or making money or gaining profit from something I create as a content creator, it's really hard to say this, but I really don't think Final Fantasy should have been made after Sakaguchi-san left the company. Square the company owns Final Fantasy the property, so it's really up to them what they decide to do. But me personally, that's what I thought when he left the company. And I think at the same time that they started to change the direction of the company. We weren't sure who was in charge of what. It meant a lot of things if we look back at that time when he left and maybe soon after he left. There were a lot of changes, and it was probably a turning point for the company. I don't know if there has been another turning point within SquareEnix the company, but that was definitely a moment that meant a lot of different things.
"I really don't think Final Fantasy should have been made after Sakaguchi-san left the company."
-Uematsu on Hironobu Sakaguchi leaving SquareEnix
(...)
You can notice how the company began to increasingly flounder creatively after his departure.
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Revolutionary
Member
The situation is going to get even worse since their golden goose, FFXIV, is heading in a downward trajectory.
For those that don't play XIV: last week, Yoshi-P pissed off casual and midcore players because he admitted that the reason why the newest raid doesn't have a Normal mode is due to "cost". That's right, "cost" is holding back the game that is singlehandedly holding up SE. People are getting sick of the excuses (it took them SIX YEARS to implement working hats on the two newest races), and combined with the amount of players dissatisfied with the latest expansion, there's gonna be a rude awakening come next expansion.
Edit:
www.pcgamer.com
For those that don't play XIV: last week, Yoshi-P pissed off casual and midcore players because he admitted that the reason why the newest raid doesn't have a Normal mode is due to "cost". That's right, "cost" is holding back the game that is singlehandedly holding up SE. People are getting sick of the excuses (it took them SIX YEARS to implement working hats on the two newest races), and combined with the amount of players dissatisfied with the latest expansion, there's gonna be a rude awakening come next expansion.
Edit:
Despite bankrolling Square Enix, 'cost' is somehow the reason Final Fantasy 14's newest raid (which has only been cleared 400 times in 23 days) wasn't given an easier version
CS3's got its priorities all backwards.
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Rush2112
Gold Member
This guy wrote/directed final fantasy : the spirits within. It was a love letter to hollywood with a full DEI cast, woman boss main char, and a plot to save the "dying planet".
the movie did so poorly that it has the lowest review score of any animation that has been aired in US theaters. This debacle ended the final fantasy / hollywood love.
www.rottentomatoes.com
the movie did so poorly that it has the lowest review score of any animation that has been aired in US theaters. This debacle ended the final fantasy / hollywood love.
Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within | Rotten Tomatoes
Discover reviews, ratings, and trailers for Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within on Rotten Tomatoes. Stay updated with critic and audience scores today!
www.rottentomatoes.com
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Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
There's really no guarantee he would do all that much differently to be honest. I think it would be better if he was there but they would still face many of the same challenges that came after he left.
Uematsu is good but Hamauzu was a giant step up. That was clear on FFX even.
- He was there for FFX and FFXIII was basically the spiritual successor to that game. Its not some departure honestly.
- WRPG going mainstream didnt occur until after he left.
- HD games era development challenges. Ballooning staff and dev times.
- PS3 development challenges.
Uematsu is good but Hamauzu was a giant step up. That was clear on FFX even.
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swaffles23
Member
Square was better with Sakaguchi but he did almost bankrupt the company with The Spirits Within
near
Gold Member
I'll have to disagree. I think he's output has been under appreciated without Square, but he hasn't been lost at all. Fantasian, Terra Battle, and The Last Story have all been good games, made on a budget by small teams.
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After a bit of digging, found it.
Homepage:
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Apple Podcasts link:
Hypereides
Member
Its probably out of humility, professionalism and respect to his former colleagues.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Possibly. But he still said it, and he religiously played XIV and I think gushed all over Yoshida who I think is a hack. I think he meant a lot of it.
Walliwallipaloo
Member
Look, not liking The Spirits Within is one thing. I can get that. But are you actually trying to imply it was woke?This guy wrote/directed final fantasy : the spirits within. It was a love letter to hollywood with a full DEI cast, woman boss main char, and a plot to save the "dying planet".
the movie did so poorly that it has the lowest review score of any animation that has been aired in US theaters. This debacle ended the final fantasy / hollywood love.
Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within | Rotten Tomatoes
Discover reviews, ratings, and trailers for Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within on Rotten Tomatoes. Stay updated with critic and audience scores today!
Come on, bro, that's... embarrassing. Don't do that.
TonberrysKnife
Member
Some of those games were made before EA stepped in. Some of those games during EA's involvement got remastered too. Who knows though.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
It all comes back to that Square Enix merge.
IFireflyl
Gold Member
I generally like you, but I also hope that both of your arms spontaneously fall off so that you can never post this kind of nonsense again.
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Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Well it's 100% true
. Director of the game worked on X. Similar art styles. Calm Lands similar to the Plains area in XIII and introduced at the same point in terms of pacing. Similar focus on lore and religion. The games are actually pretty similar in many ways. That group is now working on FFVIIR. Same type of design philosophy as always, just getting better at open world, Unreal Engine, and filling it with more side content. FFX is almost as linear as XIII is, just has a better endgame. Same OST composer as well.Nothing really changed from X to XIII except the challenge of making a game on PS3 in the HD era for the very 1st time on an unfinished Crystal Tools engine. There's not a lot of indication that Sakaguchi would do much differently other than maybe delay the game to allow them more time to finish it. But again, this is the first major game coming out in the HD era from them with costs ballooning right after he nearly bankrupt the company, so it's unclear if he could even get the delay honestly.
Proof that its a bigger issue than just Sakaguchi, look at every other Japanese developer during this time from any publisher. Some good stuff but it was almost a lost decade. Sakaguchi was out before all of that.
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MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I dunno Lost Odyssey and Last Story were magical. XIII was lame and XIV has been hard carrying the IP while XV and XVI are dragging it to the ground.
IFireflyl
Gold Member
Well it's 100% true
Nothing really changed from X to XIII except the challenge of making a game on PS3 in the HD era for the very 1st time. There's not a lot of indication that Sakaguchi would do much differently other than maybe delay the game to allow them more time to finish it. But again, this is the first major game coming out in the HD era from them with costs ballooning right after he nearly bankrupt the company, so it's unclear if he could even get the delay honestly.
Buggy Loop
Member
They never recovered to be honest
Bernardougf
Member
Well... they as far as FF goes.. still are in awful condition/direction
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Judge Magister
Member
Uematsu just confirmed the obvious. Sakaguchi departure was a huge loss but at the time Square board had to put the blame on him.
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Hypereides
Member
That may be. But, they, whoever took over, failed to identify who held the well oiled creative success machinery together. One misstep, is one misstep. Some finance savvy people should've stepped in, for the interim, as a temporary measure to stabilize the company and not let him go entirely. It was a mistake to displace him. Sakaguchi was the golden goose.
People can say what they will about Mistwalker. Even though they haven't replicated the same great success, as Squaresoft in its glory years, their output has been consistently solid and contained much of that original Squaresoft spirit.
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