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[Bam Bam Baklava]

Did he really have to be stripped? It's not like the UFC doesn't have it's share of champions who fight once a year, or are averse to having "interim" champions. On top of that Dana once tried to bail a guy out of jail to get him out in time to fight, so it's not like he has much of a moral high ground here.

Anyway the reason people give DC shit is simple, he did not beat the champion to win the title, in fact, just one fight before he won the title, he got the brakes beat off him by the actual champion. Of course people are going to question the legitimacy of his "championship". He's an interim champion in everything but name.

Not only that but after he got it he was talking shit like he was on top of the world (before he knew Jones would be back or not) assuming Jones could be away for years or in jail. Now that he sees the writing on the wall he has adopted this new humble approach. He's a joke character.

 

[BadAss2961]

Not only that but after he got it he was talking shit like he was on top of the world (before he knew Jones would be back or not) assuming Jones could be away for years or in jail. Now that he sees the writing on the wall he has adopted this new humble approach. He's a joke character.

The first thing he did after he won the title was call out Jones. And now he's agreed that Jones deserves an immediate title shot.

DC could easily bitch out and try to spark a fight with someone like Bader instead, but he's not doing that.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

The first thing he did after he won the title was call out Jones. And now he's agreed that Jones deserves an immediate title shot.

DC could easily bitch out and try to spark a fight with someone like Bader instead, but he's not doing that.

You think he has a choice? The UFC is a business, not a charity.

 

[BadAss2961]

You think he has a choice? The UFC is a business, not a charity.

He can't book it, but he could easily lobby for it and start some fake drama to make a Bader fight happen. They already have history too. Instead he's been calling for Jones.

If Jones isn't reinstated soon, that Bader fight is probably what we'll end up with.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Cormier is a company man. He's not going to rock the boat. And nobody in the world wants to see Bader in a title fight. Cormier calling someone like him out would be even worse a look than not calling out Jones.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

He can't book it, but he could easily lobby for it and start some fake drama to make a Bader fight happen. They already have history too. Instead he's been calling for Jones.

If Jones isn't reinstated soon, that Bader fight is probably what we'll end up with.

People won't stand for it and he's not dumb enough to try. The UFC wants him to fight Jones, the fans want him to, the media wants him to, the sponsors want him to. It's just not possible for him to even try anything else.

 

[BadAss2961]

People won't stand for it and he's not dumb enough to try. The UFC wants him to fight Jones, the fans want him to, the media wants him to, the sponsors want him to. It's just not possible for him to even try anything else.

Yeah right. There's always a situation like that in these sports where everyone wants a certain fight that refuses to come together for whatever reason. And it's not uncommon for it to be because of ducking.

Adonis is ducking Kovalev. Both Ronda and the UFC are ducking Cyborg.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Yeah right. There's always a situation like that in these sports where everyone wants a certain fight that refuses to come together for whatever reason. And it's not uncommon for it to be because of ducking.

Adonis is ducking Kovalev. Both Ronda and the UFC are ducking Cyborg.

Business in Boxing is entirely different and that's blatantly obvious to everyone who is familiar with the sport.

UFC nor Ronda are ducking Cyborg. Cyborg is a clear PED user who has been popped for it and she's refused to come down in weight because of it.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

Business in Boxing is entirely different and that's blatantly obvious to everyone who is familiar with the sport.

UFC nor Ronda are ducking Cyborg. Cyborg is a clear PED user who has been popped for it and she's refused to come down in weight because of it.

Not sure if serious. I am not MMA fact expert or anything like that but pretty sure she was "popped" for it once years ago and hasn't been since.

As far as refusing to come down to the weight, remember reading that she has a fight that is within 5 pounds of where they want here to be. Not sure but I don't think you can say she is a "clear" PED user.

 

[BadAss2961]

Business in Boxing is entirely different and that's blatantly obvious to everyone who is familiar with the sport.

UFC nor Ronda are ducking Cyborg. Cyborg is a clear PED user who has been popped for it and she's refused to come down in weight because of it.

The boxing point was relevant because it shows fighters can duck and not lose their credibility. DC could spark a fight with Bader and campaign for Jones to have to earn his title shot. He might not get it, but he'd still have the belt that Jones wants back.

UFC's employed plenty of PED users, and continue to. Cyborg's under the same parent company, passing the same tests, yet this is still an issue years after the fact. UFC could easily do a catchweight, but nope. Ronda outright refuses a catchweight despite making her name in Cyborg's division.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Not sure if serious. I am not MMA fact expert or anything like that but pretty sure she was "popped" for it once years ago and hasn't been since.

As far as refusing to come down to the weight, remember reading that she has a fight that is within 5 pounds of where they want here to be. Not sure but I don't think you can say she is a "clear" PED user.

Plenty of people use PEDs and don't get popped for it. Have you not paid any attention to any major sport in the last 15 years? The fact that she got popped simply confirms she's used and that someone in her camp screwed up.

The boxing point was relevant because it shows fighters can duck and not lose their credibility. DC could spark a fight with Bader and campaign for Jones to have to earn his title shot. He might not get it, but he'd still have the belt that Jones wants back.

UFC's employed plenty of PED users, and continue to. Cyborg's under the same parent company, passing the same tests, yet this is still an issue years after the fact. UFC could easily do a catchweight, but nope. Ronda outright refuses a catchweight despite making her name in Cyborg's division.

The Boxing point is irrelevant because there are so many Belts and Rival promoters that credibility means extremely little. They're not beholden to anyone but themselves.

Invicta is not owned by Zuffa, they just have a broadcast deal with them. Because of that relationship, Invicta is lenient about their fighters contracts if they want to sign with the UFC. Their are no uniform tests last I checked either. The details of testing can be unique on a per fight or per Athletic Commission basis. Even then, the way the results are reported and to who they go to in which order is something that can vary quite a bit.

Why would Ronda, the undisputed 135 Champ, agree to a catchweight for Cyborg? In what world does that make sense? People wanted a Silva/Jones or Silva/GSP at catchweight (which merited catchweight far more based on wins and reputation) and THAT never happened but nobody says those dudes were ducking. I'd also argue that the fight that actually put Ronda in the spotlight was the first Tate fight at 135.

All this obfuscation for what? To try to defend the point that Cormier isn't worried about fighting the guy that beat him handily the last time they faced each other?

 

[BadAss2961]

Plenty of people use PEDs and don't get popped for it. Have you not paid any attention to any major sport in the last 15 years? The fact that she got popped simply confirms she's used and that someone in her camp screwed up.

What? The UFC has booked many fighters after they've popped dirty. What makes Cyborg so bad?

The Boxing point is irrelevant because there are so many Belts and Rival promoters that credibility means extremely little. They're not beholden to anyone but themselves.

You're still missing the point. Adonis is ducking Kovalev, but he's still a champion and everyone still wants to see the fight. If DC were to duck Jones, everyone would still want the rematch as long as DC holds the belt. As long as DC has the belt he's credible and you have to deal with him.

Invicta is not owned by Zuffa, they just have a broadcast deal with them. Because of that relationship, Invicta is lenient about their fighters contracts if they want to sign with the UFC. Their are no uniform tests last I checked either. The details of testing can be unique on a per fight or per Athletic Commission basis. Even then, the way the results are reported and to who they go to in which order is something that can vary quite a bit.

Cyborg's been passing random drug tests. It's gotten to the point where she's tweeting pics of them drawing blood to hush the critics.

Why would Ronda, the undisputed 135 Champ, agree to a catchweight for Cyborg? In what world does that make sense? People wanted a Silva/Jones or Silva/GSP at catchweight (which merited catchweight far more based on wins and reputation) and THAT never happened but nobody says those dudes were ducking. I'd also argue that the fight that actually put Ronda in the spotlight was the first Tate fight at 135.

Because she's supposed to be a world beater, and that's the fight the fans want. A lot of people think she might lose. Why not prove how great you are by taking the one fight where you won't be ridiculously favored?

145 put her on the map. She never fought at 135 before getting that title shot. So the weight is not an issue at all for her. She's delaying and hiding behind a weight she knows is hard for Cyborg to make. Take all this in and it's obvious she's ducking.

 

[Lazyslob]

Because she's supposed to be a world beater, and that's the fight the fans want. A lot of people think she might lose. Why not prove how great you are by taking the one fight where you won't be ridiculously favored?

145 put her on the map. She never fought at 135 before getting that title shot. So the weight is not an issue at all for her. She's delaying and hiding behind a weight she knows is hard for Cyborg to make. Take all this in and it's obvious she's ducking.

thats crazy thinking. ronda is a champ she doesnt have to do shit. if cyborg wants to fight her its up to her to make that weight not ronda

 

[BadAss2961]

thats crazy thinking. ronda is a champ she doesnt have to do shit. if cyborg wants to fight her its up to her to make that weight not ronda

Cyborg's a champ too though. Only difference is that one is in the UFC and the other isn't.

It could be a superfight, but one side doesn't want it.

 

[Fitts]

thats crazy thinking. ronda is a champ she doesnt have to do shit. if cyborg wants to fight her its up to her to make that weight not ronda

Anderson was champ he didn't have to do shit.

BJ was champ he didn't have to do shit.

 

[BadAss2961]

Anderson was champ he didn't have to do shit.

BJ was champ he didn't have to do shit.

BJ in particular didn't give a fuck. He'd fight anybody.

 

[Lazyslob]

Cyborg's a champ too though. Only difference is that one is in the UFC and the other isn't.

It could be a superfight, but one side doesn't want it.

then you are just proving my point even more. cyborg doesnt have a ufc title so priority shouldnt be made for her. besides no one apart from mma fans know who the hell cyborg is.

Anderson was champ he didn't have to do shit.

BJ was champ he didn't have to do shit.

okay? so what?

 

[BadAss2961]

then you are just proving my point even more. cyborg doesnt have a ufc title so priority shouldnt be made for her. besides no one apart from mma fans know who the hell cyborg is.

So you don't want to see the fight then?

I understand why it's a problem for the UFC business-wise, but I can't excuse Ronda.

 

[Fitts]

okay? so what?

You're not really that dense...

Spoiler

...champs who willfully moved up in weight for the purpose of testing themselves. Because they're fighters.

 

[Lazyslob]

You're not really that dense...

Spoiler

...champs who willfully moved up in weight for the purpose of testing themselves. Because they're fighters.

damn getting insulting now huh.

i know what you are saying but like i said before she doesnt have to do shit. whether or not you think its dope that fighters move up or down weight is irrelevant

 

[Fitts]

damn getting insulting now huh.

Not an insult. Just operating under the assumption that you were feigning ignorance.

If you're truly that new to the sport then I apologize.

 

[Lazyslob]

lol damn even throwing out the ol "you just started watching this sport yesterday!"

you covering all the bases now

dont get mad at me that you cant hold a conversation and resort to whatever that is

 

[Fitts]

lol damn even throwing out the ol "you just started watching this sport yesterday!"

you covering all the bases now

dont get mad at me that you cant hold a conversation and resort to whatever that is

Again, that wasn't an insult.

 

[Jest Chillin]

What? The UFC has booked many fighters after they've popped dirty. What makes Cyborg so bad?

UFC had signed her but didn't have a 145lbs division and wasn't going to build a division around her. Instead of dropping to 135lbs, She and Tito (her manager at that point) lobbied for her to be released from her contract, got what they asked for, went to Invicta and then started crying about Ronda not meeting HER challenge.

You're still missing the point. Adonis is ducking Kovalev, but he's still a champion and everyone still wants to see the fight. If DC were to duck Jones, everyone would still want the rematch as long as DC holds the belt. As long as DC has the belt he's credible and you have to deal with him.

People who win Vacant or Interim belts aren't credible at all until they beat an actual Champ. The only reason Cormier isn't considered Interim was because the UFC had to save face in the way they yanked Jones belt due to his terrible life decisions.

Cyborg's been passing random drug tests. It's gotten to the point where she's tweeting pics of them drawing blood to hush the critics.

You're really going to stick your head in the sand on the issue of athletes in major sports getting clean reports during the time they've been on PEDs?

Because she's supposed to be a world beater, and that's the fight the fans want. A lot of people think she might lose. Why not prove how great you are by taking the one fight where you won't be ridiculously favored?

The majority of fans don't know who Cyborg even is. Now we can get into the pointless metrics of who is considered a fan but the vast majority of people buying UFC PPVs don't know or care who Cyborg is and won't until a Zuffa media blitz tells them they should.

145 put her on the map. She never fought at 135 before getting that title shot. So the weight is not an issue at all for her. She's delaying and hiding behind a weight she knows is hard for Cyborg to make. Take all this in and it's obvious she's ducking.

145 didn't put her on the map at all, what are you talking about? When the marketing for that Tate fight hit, very few people knew who Rousey was and most people thought she's was a propped up challenger. Rousey's previous 2 opponents had a 2-1 and 4-1 record at the time and neither Rousey, nor Budd, nor D'Alelio had the experience against known talent that Tate did at the time. It was beating Tate and doing so in such a spectacular fashion that put Rousey on the map.

 

[Lazyslob]

Again, that wasn't an insult.

im saying instead of telling me im dense or that i just started watching the sport yesterday how about you try and have a discussion instead and argue my points

 

[Fitts]

im saying instead of telling me im dense or that i just started watching the sport yesterday how about you try and have a discussion instead and argue my points

Fair enough. You're 100% correct that Ronda doesn't have to move up. But that doesn't change the fact that she's currently competing in the weakest division in the company and when some of the greatest of all time were faced with similar opportunities they chose to test themselves.

Ronda's undisputedly a champion, but not one that desires competition as she claims.

Edit: Miesha's willingness to fight Cyborg doesn't do her any favors either.

 

[BadAss2961]

UFC had signed her but didn't have a 145lbs division and wasn't going to build a division around her. Instead of dropping to 135lbs, She and Tito (her manager at that point) lobbied for her to be released from her contract, got what they asked for, went to Invicta and then started crying about Ronda not meeting HER challenge.

People who win Vacant or Interim belts aren't credible at all until they beat an actual Champ. The only reason Cormier isn't considered Interim was because the UFC had to save face in the way they yanked Jones belt due to his terrible life decisions.

You're really going to stick your head in the sand on the issue of athletes in major sports getting clean reports during the time they've been on PEDs?

The majority of fans don't know who Cyborg even is. Now we can get into the pointless metrics of who is considered a fan but the vast majority of people buying UFC PPVs don't know or care who Cyborg is and won't until a Zuffa media blitz tells them they should.

145 didn't put her on the map at all, what are you talking about? When the marketing for that Tate fight hit, very few people knew who Rousey was and most people thought she's was a propped up challenger. Rousey's previous 2 opponents had a 2-1 and 4-1 record at the time and neither Rousey, nor Budd, nor D'Alelio had the experience against known talent that Tate did at the time. It was beating Tate and doing so in such a spectacular fashion that put Rousey on the map.

Cyborg is willing to meet in the middle, Ronda is not. That's despite the extra 5 pounds not being any disadvantage to Ronda while each pound weakens Cyborg.

Interim champs aren't credible at all? Tell that to Conor. He's the big draw with all the hype even after all that Aldo's accomplished.

A clean report is all we have to work with. It doesn't get much more strict than random testing. Why harp on one failed test from years ago? Some cynics believe everyone is taking something.

What does casuals not knowing who Cris Cyborg is have to do with Ronda stepping up and demanding the fight the fans and the experts want to see?

145 didn't put her on the map? How do you get a title shot before getting on the map? I'm talking about credibility, not marketing. My original point was that she was already a legit 145'er before moving down.

 

[Lazyslob]

people arent wrong for assuming cyborg is using especially when she has been caught before and the way her body looks. i would like to see ronda vs cyborg but you guys are getting carried away. challengers challenge the champion not the other way around. 135 is her division and she has every right to stick to that. if cyborg cant make that weight then screw her it shouldnt be rondas problem that cyborg wont make it. and besides the only notable win cyborg has is gina carano

 

[BadAss2961]

people arent wrong for assuming cyborg is using especially when she has been caught before and the way her body looks. i would like to see ronda vs cyborg but you guys are getting carried away. challengers challenge the champion not the other way around. 135 is her division and she has every right to stick to that. if cyborg cant make that weight then screw her it shouldnt be rondas problem that cyborg wont make it. and besides the only notable win cyborg has is gina carano

Both are champs. This is to find out who the baddest woman in MMA is.

Carano was good, so was Coenen.

 

[Lazyslob]

Both are champs. This is to find out who the baddest woman in MMA is.

Carano was good, so was Coenen.

lol invicta champ. please

 

[Jest Chillin]

Fair enough. You're 100% correct that Ronda doesn't have to move up. But that doesn't change the fact that she's currently competing in the weakest division in the company and when some of the greatest of all time were faced with similar circumstances they chose to test themselves.

Ronda's undisputedly a champion, but not one that desires competition as she claims.

Edit: Miesha's willingness to fight Cyborg doesn't do her any favors either.

Hold up... you're saying that Silva taking the Irvin and Bonnar fights was him testing himself? Irvin who was never close to cracking the top 10 and Bonnar who should've retired years before. BJ is a solid point but Silva, not so much.

Tate's just looking for buzz because she's got a case of the Florians. Will constantly derail new challengers but will never beat the champ.

Cyborg is willing to meet in the middle, Ronda is not. That's despite the extra 5 pounds not being any disadvantage to Ronda while each pound weakens Cyborg.

Interim champs aren't credible at all? Tell that to Conor. He's the big draw with all the hype even after all that Aldo's accomplished.

A clean report is all we have to work with. It doesn't get much more strict than random testing. Why harp on one failed test from years ago? Some cynics believe everyone is taking something.

What does casuals not knowing who Cris Cyborg is have to do with Ronda stepping up and demanding the fight the fans and the experts want to see?

145 didn't put her on the map? How do you get a title shot before getting on the map? I'm talking about credibility, not marketing. My original point was that she was already a legit 145'er before moving down.

Willing to meet in the middle is a bullshit way of saying refuses to fight the champ at the championship weight.

And there are still people who doubt Conor. Conor had even more naysayers right up until TKOing Mendes.. someone who's never lost to anyone other than Aldo, who is the current champ. You picked a terrible case to try to cherry pick on this one.

It gets a lot more strict than random testing. The type of testing (as in what they're actually testing FOR), and year-round random testing rather than just before a fight are two ways to immediately make it more difficult to use PEDs.

There's that "casuals" label I was waiting for. Casual or Hardcore doesn't matter when talking about fight demand. Their money is worth the same amount. And what experts want to see that fight and what exactly makes them experts? MMA press is a joke and professionals tend to have personal bias.

How do you get a title shot? Being willing and having a record on paper that can be marketed. For decades MMA didn't have, and really still doesn't have, any kind of unified ranking system. UFC's current rankings are in their infancy and they're regularly ignored.

Ronda fought at 145 because women's MMA was struggling at the time and with her walking around weight being 148-150, she could take fights on short notice and make weight easily. Her competing at 135 is her legit weightclass as a standard weight cut for the sport.

 

[alr1ght]

Anderson fought Forrest Griffin when Griffin was coming off an unsuccessful title defense at 205. Hardly comparable to when he fought Bonnar.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Both are champs. This is to find out who the baddest woman in MMA is.

Carano was good, so was Coenen.

lol this is the equavilant of Liam McGreary challenging Chris Weidman and asking him to meet him at 205. The Invicta title carries no weight, especially when Ronda Rousey is the hottest fighter on the planet and has every ounce of leverage.

 

[BadAss2961]

Willing to meet in the middle is a bullshit way of saying refuses to fight the champ at the championship weight.

And there are still people who doubt Conor. Conor had even more naysayers right up until TKOing Mendes.. someone who's never lost to anyone other than Aldo, who is the current champ. You picked a terrible case to try to cherry pick on this one.

It gets a lot more strict than random testing. The type of testing (as in what they're actually testing FOR), and year-round random testing rather than just before a fight are two ways to immediately make it more difficult to use PEDs.

There's that "casuals" label I was waiting for. Casual or Hardcore doesn't matter when talking about fight demand. Their money is worth the same amount. And what experts want to see that fight and what exactly makes them experts? MMA press is a joke and professionals tend to have personal bias.

How do you get a title shot? Being willing and having a record on paper that can be marketed. For decades MMA didn't have, and really still doesn't have, any kind of unified ranking system. UFC's current rankings are in their infancy and they're regularly ignored.

Ronda fought at 145 because women's MMA was struggling at the time and with her walking around weight being 148-150, she could take fights on short notice and make weight easily. Her competing at 135 is her legit weightclass as a standard weight cut for the sport.

Meeting in the middle isn't bullshit at all. They're both champs. This is a superfight and Cyborg has openly said she doesn't give a shit about Ronda's belt.

I also don't get how WMMA was some sort of struggle where Ronda had to sacrifice more than any other competitor. Most of the scene the UFC has now was already built elsewhere. 135 was always an option for Ronda, but it wasn't the go-to division until UFC got involved and built everything around her. Ignoring 145 was a smart move on their part since it cut out Cyborg.

lol this is the equavilant of Liam McGreary challenging Chris Weidman and asking him to meet him at 205. The Invicta title carries no weight, especially when Ronda Rousey is the hottest fighter on the planet and has every ounce of leverage.

If the UFC never gets into WMMA, Cris Cyborg is still top dog unless Ronda beat her. 145 is still the glory division.

It's all hype.

 

[Lazyslob]

please stop using the "cyborg is a champ" excuse.

 

[-MD-]

Did he really have to be stripped?

Any sane person would say yes.

It could be a superfight, but one side doesn't want it.

Everyone knows Ronda doesn't want that fight, she said years ago she didn't want that fight and if it did happen she'd want to wait as long as possible.

Much more lucrative for her to continue crushing cans at 135 and pad her undefeated record than to take an L from Cyborg.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Anderson fought Forrest Griffin when Griffin was coming off an unsuccessful title defense at 205. Hardly comparable to when he fought Bonnar.

That was at a sketchy point in Griffin's career, though not obvious at the time, so fair enough.

Meeting in the middle isn't bullshit at all. They're both champs. This is a superfight and Cyborg has openly said she doesn't give a shit about Ronda's belt.

I also don't get how WMMA was some sort of struggle where Ronda had to sacrifice more than any other competitor. Most of the scene the UFC has now was already built elsewhere. 135 was always an option for Ronda, but it wasn't the go-to division until UFC got involved and built everything around her. Ignoring 145 was a smart move on their part since it cut out Cyborg.

If the UFC never gets into WMMA, Cris Cyborg is still top dog unless Ronda beat her. 145 is still the glory division.

It's all hype.

It's not a Superfight. Cyborg won her first belt in the fight against Carano, defended twice then popped hot. Then at Invicta, they didn't even have a 145 belt yet. Cyborg vs. Coenen 2 was the inaugural title match for that belt. Cyborg has literally never defended a belt more than twice in her career.

UFC and Invicta's Women's divisions were formed primarily out of Strikeforce's women's roster (and Bellator's 115ers for the Strawweight). Strikeforce's women's roster was heavily pulled from Elite XC's. 145 was never the top division for WMMA. Most of the top women in MMA at the time fought anywhere from 115-135, which was because there were so few options for Women in the sport at the time. In fact, half the names you see regularly today at 115 fought as high as 135 just to be able to fight. But now that they have the option, you see them fighting at 115. Aguilar, Penne, Rakoczy, Esparza, Gurgel all natural 115lb-ers. Megumi Fujii was the biggest name in WMMA before Elite XC's CBS deal and at 22-0 has the biggest winning streak Women's history that I know of.

UFC built a 135 division because 145 is even harder to get a roster for. That's also why they went to 115 for their second Women's division because that's where the majority of the women actually fight.