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UHD Blu-ray Game Consoles shipped in 2013
- Thread starter jeff_rigby
- Start date
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
A lot of peoples' patience ran out years ago.
Been there done that dude. Fool me once etc etc.
I've been reading Jeff's stuff for years, starting on the Blu-Ray.com forums in the early days of the format wars if memory serves.
Growing tired of the needlessly convoluted rhetoric and the pie-in-the-sky constant, that is all.
He's nigh-incoherent in explaining the details of what he's even presenting, so agreeing or disagreeing sounds tough.
Factor in how he's apparently been doing this for years and, well...I haven't even been here long but I'd be lying if I said I haven't checked (well, "binged", really) his thread history. Shit is fascinating.
honestly where does he even find these documents
His entire argument here rests on this 44 page document, written in 2009, about the energy cost of various devices, that begins estimating the average annual electrical cost of devices (that didn't even exist when this was written) in 2013. To OP, because they began estimating in 2013, it is absolute proof that said consoles released in 2013 have UHD capability. Never mind that the estimated cost given is infinitesimal (because the article is really arguing that cost will grow over time as devices sell, hence why they extrapolate their estimates out to 2020), do you really think such a report, jointly written by several console manufacturers, is solid proof that they released a console with UHD capabilities in 2013? It was written in 2009!
If you spend your energy trying to argue this with OP, as evident by his previous topics, you will just be wasting his time. To OP, that is solid, irrefutable proof that UHD consoles released in 2013.
Do you see now why many don't engage?
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Those aren't predictions, those are ideas. The idea of a better version of an existing console and the idea of a console that supports 4K. These aren't particularly unique ideas, either. And they are way too vague to be "predictions" of the sort that you should be proud of in any way.
"But the HDMI is custom and HDCP can be updated via firmware update because there's something on the southbridge." - Jeff when he replies to you with actual facts
katsubento
Member
I was waiting for this to pop up sooner or later with all the new upgraded console talk.
Mahalo Jeff.
Mahalo Jeff.
Obliterator
Member
Jeff rigby posts and threads are the best
And the problem with the first thread was that it was stated as fact. Which it wasn't.
This thread is exactly the same.
I said "Kinda"
also if you look at all the "No"s in the threads you can see that it was pretty unique ideas around here.
Looking at the linked document I didn't see any mention of UHD media playback of any kind (Blu-Ray or streaming). Did I miss it? The supported media types are listed on pp. 6-7 and none of them are over 1080p. As far as I can tell the media playback mode power requirements are for UHD consoles playing SD or HD content.
outunderthestars
Banned
I don't see why Sony would block UHD Blu Ray movie playback for 3 years now when they would make millions of dollars a year of profit from it.
jeff_rigby
Banned
I have not yet made an argument in this thread, I just quoted the 2015 paper that mentioned UHD Game console power use starting in 2013 with UHD Blu-ray media starting in 2016. What this means to me is that some game console(s) have plans to firmware update in 2016 to support UHD Blu-ray.
Arguments against this in the past have been that the 2013 drive can't support reading a UHD Disk but the 2015 paper belies that and a Microsoft VP said in 2013 that the XB1 hardware can support UHD Blu-ray.
Further the BDA (Association that Licences Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray) lists Game Consoles. Sony has a licence for a PC UHD Blu-ray player and a licence for a UHD Movie Player/Game Console/Test player.
https://www.blu-raydisc.info/rom4-faq.php said:
So the counter argument to this is what? The mention of 2013 UHD Game consoles in a 2015 paper is in error and the BDA is licencing a newer game console.as the PS4 and XB1 launch consoles can't support UHD BLu-ray despite a VP stating the XB1 can and the PS4 will support 4K media.https://www.blu-raydisc.info/content-protection/content-protection-rom4.php said:
My fault in this case is to believe the 2015 paper from Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo because it's supported by the BDA and early quotes from both Sony and Microsoft. This is also supported by the latest Fuji book, HDCP and ARM Tee recommendations as well as Microsoft last June announcing XB1 support for HEVC profile 10.
Notice the difference in style here, one resorts to personal attacks and gets their facts wrong while the other provides cites and logic. The failure to engage by many, I think, is due to the effort it takes not the flavor of my posts.
Because UHD Blu-Rays have just recently hit the market, and players are just now going on sale because they finalized the specs not too long ago.
your topic title is an argument - that UHD Blu-ray Game Consoles shipped in 2013.
The same reason Wii/WiiU blocked DVD/Blu-ray. Having the hardware is one thing, but having the certifications, licenses, and finalized specifications is another
Thats Jeff's style. Its not "his" argument, but a heavily editorialized bullet point from the link in his OP. I would agree thats what he needs to work on ,distinguishing definitive from speculative
Where in that document does it ever mention UHD Blu-ray? It says UHD capable XBO and PS4 which is true as they are both capable of outputting a UHD signal.
jeff_rigby
Banned
The PS4 has a custom Panasonic HDMI chip and HDCP is required to be in the Media Trusted Execution Environment. The XB1 is similar, HDCP is required to be in the ARM Trustzone TEE and a programmable HDMI/DP chip from Cadence provides the HDMI. The same is true of AMD's Kaveri and Carrizo. HDMI 2 timings were known way in advance of 2013.
The PS4 has a custom HDMI chip why? HDMI 1.4b can support 1080P @ 120 FPS so VR is not an issue. It can support side by side 3D or two video streams needed by Sony's VR @ 60 FPS but not at 120 FPS. Sony's VR breakout box can support two modes, one called Separate mode outputs two separate video streams @ 120FPS that the breakout box separates routing one to the Goggles and the other reducing it's framerate and sending to a TV. In separate mode you can have an entirely different screen from what's seen on the Goggles. This requires a HDMI 2 port and two video streams is a supported feature of HDMI 2 called multi-view but for AMD's Display port it's called EyeInfinity and supports 5 streams with a breakout box 5 monitors.
Adam Tyner
Member
We don't know that! For crying out loud, the BDA has a licensing category that encompasses game consoles, but there is no definitive confirmation that a game console specifically has licensed UHD BD. Maybe there is. Maybe there isn't. There is not a definitive answer that is publicly known.
The breakout box also does re-projection so having the separate screen experience can still be achieved with sub 2.0 HDMI. A 60HZ stream to VR and a 60 HZ stream to the TV and the box would do the tough work of separating that and doing the re-projection to get 120hz feedback to the headset. All correct yes?
no it doesn't
BlastProcessing
Member
I believe Jeff but I'm not so sure Sony even intends to support UHD discs any longer what with their online 4K store and lack of UHD Alliance certification on their latest sets.
Perhaps it's an internal change of strategy that is preventing the UHD disc on PS4 dream and not a hardware limitation.
Never mind, I'll just hand over my cash to Panasonic instead.
Perhaps it's an internal change of strategy that is preventing the UHD disc on PS4 dream and not a hardware limitation.
Never mind, I'll just hand over my cash to Panasonic instead.
jetsetnickradio
Member
Honest question from new member.
I saw alot of Jeff post in PS4K/Neo thread, I don't understand what's he trying to say in most his post because it's too advanced (for me), but I do understand people like Durante.
Who's Jeff and what did he do in the past and why people make fun of him?
I saw alot of Jeff post in PS4K/Neo thread, I don't understand what's he trying to say in most his post because it's too advanced (for me), but I do understand people like Durante.
Who's Jeff and what did he do in the past and why people make fun of him?
Kralamoonard
Member
Is Jeff the oldest guy here on GAF? IIRC, he said on a previous post that he was 61 or something.
He believes that if there's even a one percent chance that a technical document allows something, he will take it as an absolute certainty.
That whole document reads just as if they are laying down the rules for power consumption ahead of time. Because the manufacturers have to work within these limits, they are clearly trying to get around the power usage limitations by defining their console as something else.
Perhaps this regulatory board noticed that the Term UHD console was creeping in, so they wrote down that term as part of their restrictions in a preemptive move and Set its usage the same as the normal console.
Note how they have a separate tables for consoles with a NUI (Xbox one Kinect)
I've never considered before that the games consoles may infact be held back by power consumption figures.
Perhaps this regulatory board noticed that the Term UHD console was creeping in, so they wrote down that term as part of their restrictions in a preemptive move and Set its usage the same as the normal console.
Note how they have a separate tables for consoles with a NUI (Xbox one Kinect)
I've never considered before that the games consoles may infact be held back by power consumption figures.
Its not advanced, a lot of it is either gibberish or super concrete or definitive "evidence" he's trying to present based on piles and piles of documents that have one or two lines somewhere that give Jeff's brain some implication of something very improbable at best, which he will then post an entire thread about and defend as absolute truth till the death going round and round in circles.
"XBOX 360 IS GETTING AN UPGRADE WITH DOUBLE GPUS!"
"Jeff that makes no sense, we're already in the twilight years of the 360 and"
"No but you don't understand there's a document from 2009 that highlights a special contract between AMD & MS that focused directly on ENHANCED GPU COMPUTING AT 45NM!"
"Jeff those are prototypes for the 360 S SOC with a die shrink"
"But no you don't understand"
milkybar1983
Member
Are you misterxmedia's alter ego?