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[Hazzuh]

Farron in Warrington today visiting the parents of one of the kids who was killed in the IRA bombing in 1993. Don't think the LDs will be in with much luck in either Warrington seat but I guess that isn't why he is there.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

No, North is Labour and South is Tory. I think South was a target once upon a time.

 

[Thornton Reed]

any links to the speech? Would rather watch it than read the transcript. I need to say the way he's delivering it.

 

[SymbiantXenos]

Farron in Warrington today visiting the parents of one of the kids who was killed in the IRA bombing in 1993. Don't think the LDs will be in with much luck in either Warrington seat but I guess that isn't why he is there.

Warrington South (my ward) has been lib dem often.

 

[scotcheggz]

any links to the speech? Would rather watch it than read the transcript. I need to say the way he's delivering it.

If you can access the BBC news channel website, you can rewind it to the speech. It started about 11:10ish

 

[Madouu]

any links to the speech? Would rather watch it than read the transcript. I need to say the way he's delivering it.

Speech

 

[DavidDesu]

Yeah please vote SNP in Scotland if you're happy with their policies and absolutely don't want the Tories. Labour is a wasted vote and frankly Scottish Labour are an absolute shower of c....

Good to hear Corbyn made a good speech.

I've been thinking just how abject Tory failures have been. Over and over. Yet the media always gives the view that somehow the Tories are the default responsible leadership. It's a joke. They always talk about Corbyn as if he lives in cloud cuckoo land yet what he stands for was perfectly alright not that long ago. Socially responsible decent ideas like protecting the NHS and not getting into messy pointless and self defeating wars. Stuff that when people are polled on policy gets strong support but weirdly which parties like the Tories never stand for.

I really hope the Tories keep fucking up, I would be ecstatic about Corbyn getting in and us rebalancing the nation after its huge lurch rightwards.

If they do it probably puts off a Scottish referendum for a while and that is still something I want.. but it'd be worth it to see the UK as a whole not slide into the totalitarian ambitions of the Tories.

 

[Pandy]

The only thing I even seen a hint of "working together" from Labour Scotland the SNP was bashing Davidson over the rape clause.

I posted it at the time, but as you've mentioned it again, I'll post it again. Kezia's best moment in politics by an absolute mile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DorfplPwYRU

I still find it super weird that this isn't a bigger deal South of the border.

 

[Audioboxer]

Yeah please vote SNP in Scotland if you're happy with their policies and absolutely don't want the Tories. Labour is a wasted vote and frankly Scottish Labour are an absolute shower of c....

Good to hear Corbyn made a good speech.

I've been thinking just how abject Tory failures have been. Over and over. Yet the media always gives the view that somehow the Tories are the default responsible leadership. It's a joke. They always talk about Corbyn as if he lives in cloud cuckoo land yet what he stands for was perfectly alright not that long ago. Socially responsible decent ideas like protecting the NHS and not getting into messy pointless and self defeating wars. Stuff that when people are polled on policy gets strong support but weirdly which parties like the Tories never stand for.

I really hope the Tories keep fucking up, I would be ecstatic about Corbyn getting in and us rebalancing the nation after its huge lurch rightwards.

If they do it probably puts off a Scottish referendum for a while and that is still something I want.. but it'd be worth it to see the UK as a whole not slide into the totalitarian ambitions of the Tories.

Brexit will still be a shit show whoever is in charge. Labour just slightly less so. What Corbyn would have to show the people in Scotland as well is Labour will actually manage to turn the UK into what the manifesto says. Let us not forget we've had some absolutely abysmal Labour governments in recent years. Wars/privatisation and ridiculous spending.

There's still a lot of Tory-lite on those Labour benches as well. Corbyn has about 9,000 knives in his back and counting.

Right now the UK needs Labour to win to stem the tide of the country continuing to go to shit and the damage being ever more difficult for us and our children to reverse. Like yourself, though, I still think a better future for us would be away from having to constantly hope and rely on a divided Labour party somehow challenging the Tories. Even if May fucks all of this up, I seriously doubt the Tories are reinventing themselves anytime soon.

I posted it at the time, but as you've mentioned it again, I'll post it again. Kezia's best moment in politics by an absolute mile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DorfplPwYRU

I still find it super weird that this isn't a bigger deal South of the border.

For sure, just a shame about Dugdale a lot of the rest of the time. She gets bullied by Davidson, and I'd argue someone like Corbyn is even a better leader than her (and Corbyn is no hot show on the "leadership" front).

As for why it's not making more waves in the South, I'll speculate it's just one of those things the "majority" Conservative country shrug off. Brexit, fox hunting and immigration are far more important.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Yeah please vote SNP in Scotland if you're happy with their policies and absolutely don't want the Tories. Labour is a wasted vote

This is constituency dependent. He might live in Renfrewshire East or Edinburgh North and Leith or East Lothian or Paisley and Renfrewshire South or Aberdeen South and so on.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Good God, the independent on BBC News right is ripping apart Corbyn's speech.

 

[Spuck-uk]

Sky picked a really very unfortunate picture of Farron to use here

 

[Audioboxer]

This is constituency dependent. He might live in Renfrewshire East or Edinburgh North and Leith or East Lothian or Paisley and Renfrewshire South or Aberdeen South and so on.

It's Edinburgh South that comes up Labour here. Everywhere else pretty much comes up SNP.

https://www.tactical2017.com/

Unless you just mean who is contesting those seats, and sure, it's mostly Labour/SNP in those areas. However, Edinburgh was one of the strongest NO votes in 2014, so do not underestimate the Unionist unifying in Edinburgh to possibly swing Conservative, away from Labour.

Ravenscraig put in a Conservative councillor in the local elections. It's not speculation Labour Unionists are switching to Conservative, it's fact. The whole extent of campaigning in Scotland has pretty much been vote for us to oppose indyref2. I don't even think I've seen Brexit mentioned once (would be risky up here anyway, given the remain vote). Labour fell way behind the Tories for the Unionist campaigning up here, and haven't recovered.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Sky picked a really very unfortunate picture of Farron to use here

It is weird how many duff photos of Farron there are out there.

If I'm allowed to make a prediction by the way, I'll make three.

1. It turns out that these non-voters and LD->Lab swing voters that Corbyn is picking up are either not in the right seats, and thus make no difference, or fade away before the GE, Cleggmania style. The Tories still sweep Labour heartland seats in the North and come
away with a 50 seat majority. Tory weakness allows the LDs to hold a couple of their weak Leave seats, and unionist tactical voting and heavily targeted campaigns deliver a raise to about 10-20 seats. All things considered, it's a good result for everyone. Corbyn is vindicated as leader of his party, as he prevented electoral collapse by stepping up when the election hit. Farron gets a more respectable bloc of MPs. The Tories get a slightly sturdier majority. The SNP are still the dominant third party, but electoral maps do not look quite as silly.

2. The LD->Lab swing voters head home, boosting the LDs up to about 13% in the polls before election day. Corbyn loses worse, the LDs maybe gain one more seat. This would be an indication of tactical voting failing. Otherwise same as #1 with Corbyn looking shakier.

3. The Tory vote continues to slide down to about where Labour are. The press start using the words "Hung Parliament." All eyes fall on the kingmakers of Sturgeon and Farron. This is by far the scariest position for Farron to be in. Both he and Sturgeon will be equidistant from the two blocs. The small number of LD target seats become extremely important, as do the SNP defences.

If there's a hung parliament, we're looking at Brexit negotiations started with absolutely no unity at home.

An election by Christmas would be certain.

 

[Thornton Reed]

Speech

Thank you.

He's right on just about every point

 

[Deleted member 231381]

It's Edinburgh South that comes up Labour here. Everywhere else pretty much comes up SNP.

https://www.tactical2017.com/

That's just selected the biggest non-Conservative party in each constituency. There are many more constituencies which are Lab/SNP races that the Conservatives do not have especially good chances in, and where the meaningful choice is Lab/SNP. Telling people to vote SNP in those seats to avoid letting the Conservatives in is a deceptive way getting their vote.

 

[Hazzuh]

Focus group in Scotland are asked what jobs different political leaders would be doing if they weren't in politics:

Full article here

 

[Little Old Man]

On the whole, a good speech, espeically the line on rebuilding police numbers, and offering more support to the security services. While I agree with the general sentiment of 'talking to your enemies' and that eventually in the vast majority of wars/conflicts/terrorism, a resolution and a dialogue need to be formed to resolve matters, it's a very easy line for critics to rip into. Plus, he didn't really specify if he would, nor indeed who he would talk to in that case specifically for ISIS. Then again he was just expressing his general views on the subject as a whole, not a detailed strategy.

Sky picked a really very unfortunate picture of Farron to use here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR_3d29XE9k

 

[Pandy]

Speech

It was better in my head, but the delivery was fine.

Nevertheless, it was absolutely necessary that this happened today after the bile of the UKIP manifesto launch yesterday.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

What about Tim Farron?

"Maybe a gap year."

made me laugh.

 

[Coriolanus]

Oh yes, but it's not just due to intervention - it's due to a really wide variety of things stretching back to the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.

The causes of a home-grown terror attack like this being linked to our actions abroad doesn't wash. That's why I agree with Corbyn on policing (both our parties want to invest in the police, but we've done our policies differently) but not on foreign affairs.

If you're a radical islamist sitting in a cave in Syria, you're probably going to want someone like Corbyn to come along and say "well obviously the problem is the bombs we're dropping on you. That's why you're angry."

That's the sort of changing sentiment that these people want.

other way around. isis fully expects foreign hordes to invade "their" lands.

The Islamic State has attached great importance to the Syrian city of Dabiq, near Aleppo. It named its propaganda magazine after the town, and celebrated madly when (at great cost) it conquered Dabiq's strategically unimportant plains. It is here, the Prophet reportedly said, that the armies of Rome will set up their camp. The armies of Islam will meet them, and Dabiq will be Rome's Waterloo or its Antietam.

corbo's approach is the worst-case scenario for them. Can't have the Final Showdown if the other side never shows up.

Really now? You're forgetting that this isn't the only policy, these aren't the only financial commitments. They're going to somehow be able to afford this whilst ALSO funding everything else they've pledged, including the re-nationalisation of every service under the sun, and additional funds for NHS, tuition fees etc. I have no doubt that Corbyn will actually follow through with these policies, I don't doubt his integrity, but I do know that we'll then eventually end up like Greece but without the EU to bail us out.

Literally impossible, given that, unlike Greece, the UK has control over its own currency.

 

[TomWaitsForNoMan]

It is weird how many duff photos of Farron there are out there.

yeah

 

[Spuck-uk]

yeah

"Shat myself a bit there, didn't think it would follow through.

It's fine though.

It's fine."

 

[Linkstrikesback]

yeah

Alright, now I've got to know the context behind those photos. Why was Farron posing with tescos milk?

 

[Huw_Dawson]

corbo's approach is the worst-case scenario for them. Can't have the Final Showdown if the other side never shows up.

IS is just one group, though. You have the Al-Qaeda inspired groups, for example.

And again, if IS is expecting some great final showdown and victory for their extremist view of Islam, it's incredulous to expect we can talk them down. If we don't participate in getting rid of them, either some other country will fill our place or they'll hang around and directly inspire more terrorist acts.

Alright, now I've got to know the context behind those photos. Why was Farron posing with tescos milk?

One of the all-time great Lib Dem PR mysteries. Like how we thought "look left, look right, go forwards" was a good campaign slogan.

 

[Moosichu]

yeah

What

 

[Pandy]

Alright, now I've got to know the context behind those photos. Why was Farron posing with tescos milk?

Four people turned up with coffee, three with tea, and as leader he was the only one that remembered to bring milk.

Spoiler

I have no idea.

 

[SomTervo]

Farron always looks completely terrified

Like he's about to be told off every second

Spoiler

He probably is

 

[Sordid]

The whole extent of campaigning in Scotland has pretty much been vote for us to oppose indyref2. I don't even think I've seen Brexit mentioned once

I actually got a Lib Dem leaflet through the door today that said they will oppose a hard Brexit (secondary to opposing a "divisive referendum" of course but it's something). Got a Labour one in which has a really tiny mention of opposing a hard Brexit in between 6(!) mentions of "divisive referendum". It also gets bonus points for parroting Ruth Davidson's "Sturgeon needs to get back to her day job" spiel. They're all trying hard to get unionist votes but it's either the SNP or the Tories where I live :/

 

[JonathanEx]

Alright, now I've got to know the context behind those photos. Why was Farron posing with tescos milk?

I think a Fairtrade thing?

 

[TomWaitsForNoMan]

Alright, now I've got to know the context behind those photos. Why was Farron posing with tescos milk?

The only context I have is

Farron always looks completely terrified

Like he's about to be told off every second

Spoiler

He probably is

Every photo of his looks like he should be holding up today's newspaper

 

[Coriolanus]

IS is just one group, though. You have the Al-Qaeda inspired groups, for example.

And again, if IS is expecting some great final showdown and victory for their extremist view of Islam, it's incredulous to expect we can talk them down. If we don't participate in getting rid of them, either some other country will fill our place or they'll hang around and directly inspire more terrorist acts.

Al-Qaeda, you say?

On March 11, 2005, Al-Quds Al-Arabi published extracts from Saif al-Adel's document "Al Qaeda's Strategy to the Year 2020".[95][96] Abdel Bari Atwan summarizes this strategy as comprising five stages to rid the Ummah from all forms of oppression:

1. Provoke the United States and the West into invading a Muslim country by staging a massive attack or string of attacks on US soil that results in massive civilian casualties.
2. Incite local resistance to occupying forces.
3. Expand the conflict to neighboring countries, and engage the US and its allies in a long war of attrition.
4. Convert al-Qaeda into an ideology and set of operating principles that can be loosely franchised in other countries without requiring direct command and control, and via these franchises incite attacks against the US and countries allied with the US until they withdraw from the conflict, as happened with the 2004 Madrid train bombings, but which did not have the same effect with the July 7, 2005 London bombings.
5. The US economy will finally collapse by the year 2020, under the strain of multiple engagements in numerous places, making the worldwide economic system, which is dependent on the US, also collapse, leading to global political instability, which in turn leads to a global jihad led by al-Qaeda, and a Wahhabi Caliphate will then be installed across the world, following the collapse of the US and the rest of the Western world countries.

like, seriously dude, this is basic art of war, know your enemy stuff. AQ evidently knows theirs quite fucking well. The same cannot be said of the leadership of the countries it chooses to antagonize.

also no one said anything about talking them down, so how about you take that strawman down, eh?

 

[chromatic9]

Farron looked pretty cool back in the day, shame what age does to some. He looks like three fried eggs.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

In brighter UK poltiics related news, other than hilarious Farron photos, LBC have apparently fired Katie Hopkins after the scum tweeted about wanting a "final solution" to the terrorism problem.

One step at a time.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

also no one said anything about talking them down, so how about you take that strawman down, eh?

Corbyn's comment was that all conflicts end in talks - does that include IS?

 

[TomWaitsForNoMan]

In brighter UK poltiics related news, other than hilarious Farron photos, LBC have apparently fired Katie Hopkins after the scum tweeted about wanting a "final solution" to the terrorism problem.

One step at a time.

Now they just have to get rid of Nigel Farage, Iain Dale, Stig Abell, and Nick Ferrari and they might be fit to rejoin the human race

 

[Pixieking]

IS is just one group, though. You have the Al-Qaeda inspired groups, for example.

And again, if IS is expecting some great final showdown and victory for their extremist view of Islam, it's incredulous to expect we can talk them down. If we don't participate in getting rid of them, either some other country will fill our place or they'll hang around and directly inspire more terrorist acts.

The third option is that the military of the countries IS is operating in do something about them. Like this:

Iraqi Forces Open a Front in West Mosul, Trying to Squeeze ISIS

U.S. troops, Syrian fighters insert behind ISIS lines to retake key dam in Syria

Whilst that latter article has the US being involved, the UK being involved in getting rid of IS has no bearing on what the US does. Trump is either going to push for IS attacks or he isn't, and the UK won't really have any say in which way he goes. If he doesn't, then expect Germany and France to push for action of some sort, and again, I don't think the UK will have any determination in what goes down.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Now they just have to get rid of Nigel Farage, Iain Dale, Stig Abell, and Nick Ferrari and they might be fit to rejoin the human race

You're right of course.

As I said, one step at a time.

 

[Mr. Sam]

In brighter UK poltiics related news, other than hilarious Farron photos, LBC have apparently fired Katie Hopkins after the scum tweeted about wanting a "final solution" to the terrorism problem.

One step at a time.

As per Jack Monroe, she was already on her way out and the timing is largely coincidental.

 

[Spaghetti]

Consensus on the Corbyn speech? I'm in a bit of a hurry and can't read the whole thread unfortunately.

 

[Audioboxer]

That's just selected the biggest non-Conservative party in each constituency. There are many more constituencies which are Lab/SNP races that the Conservatives do not have especially good chances in, and where the meaningful choice is Lab/SNP. Telling people to vote SNP in those seats to avoid letting the Conservatives in is a deceptive way getting their vote.

Possibly, but the fact of the matter is if you look at the local election results a good bunch of Labour Scottish voters are selling themselves to going to the Conservatives. It's not the time to just take for granted that anywhere in Scotland can only be Lab/SNP.

Unless of course, anyone wants a Tory landslide, then trying to convince Scottish voters that the Tories aren't a concern and to split votes between Lab/SNP is a good tactical move

I actually got a Lib Dem leaflet through the door today that said they will oppose a hard Brexit (secondary to opposing a "divisive referendum" of course but it's something). Got a Labour one in which has a really tiny mention of opposing a hard Brexit in between 6(!) mentions of "divisive referendum". It also gets bonus points for parroting Ruth Davidson's "Sturgeon needs to get back to her day job" spiel. They're all trying hard to get unionist votes but it's either the SNP or the Tories where I live :/

Yeah, it's just a bit of political suicide if you put out a flyer in Scotland saying "let's have a Strong and Stable Brexit". Even the Conservative voters up here care far more about indyref now.

The Conservatives and Davidson actually played a smart game making it all about keeping the UK together and completely ignoring Brexit.

Consensus on the Corbyn speech? I'm in a bit of a hurry and can't read the whole thread unfortunately.

It was pretty good!

 

[Ghost]

Alright, now I've got to know the context behind those photos. Why was Farron posing with tescos milk?

Fairplay to Farron he responded on Twitter when someone asked him about these photos:

Tim: "Taken around 2009 I think. Campaigning on diary prices and calling for fair trade for UK farmers"



So presumably he was asked to look distressed/constipated and he pulled it off brilliantly.

 

[Coriolanus]

Corbyn's comment was that all conflicts end in talks - does that include IS?

I have spent my political life working for peace and human rights and to bring an end to conflict and devastating wars. That will almost always mean talking to people you profoundly disagree with. That's what conflict resolution is all about. But do not doubt my determination to take whatever action is necessary to keep our country safe and to protect our people on our streets, in our towns and cities, at our borders.

could you please stop talking about shit that just isn't so?

 

[Huw_Dawson]

could you please stop talking about shit that just isn't so?

So your argument is that Corbyn is saved from this question by using the words "almost always"?

So would Corbyn talk to IS or would he not?

If he does not want to talk with IS, he wants to continue the WoT.

If he does want to talk to IS, then... ?

 

[Ravensmash]

Any kind of snap poll on the Corbyn speech?

 

[Coriolanus]

So your argument is that Corbyn is saved from this question by using the words "almost always"?

So would Corbyn talk to IS or would he not?

he literally said that he's willing to take whatever actions are necessary to keep your country safe.
Thus, if that is what is required, he will. If other means are required, he will do those instead.

fwiw accepting an unconditional surrender = talking to the enemy.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Any kind of snap poll on the Corbyn speech?

Only super political anoraks like us saddle actually watch speeches. At best you could have a focus group. It takes a few days for received opinion to disseminate out, so you'll have to wait.

 

[Pixieking]

So your argument is that Corbyn is saved from this question by using the words "almost always"?

So would Corbyn talk to IS or would he not?

Either you want a yes or no answer to your question, or you except that "almost always" means something here.

 

[Screaming Meat]

So your argument is that Corbyn is saved from this question by using the words "almost always"?

So would Corbyn talk to IS or would he not?

If he does not want to talk with IS, he wants to continue the WoT.

If he does want to talk to IS, then... ?

Does he have to continue (specifically) the 'War on Terror' even if he doesn't want to talk with IS? Is it a this or that situation?

 

[Huw_Dawson]

-

So you believe that by talking to IS, you are saying Corbyn will demand unconditional surrender.

So he's presumably going to continue the WoT until he's defeated ISIS and they'll surrender.

By "War on Terror" we mean utilising military measures - and a giant government initiative, like the "War on Drugs" - to actively defeat terrorist groups.