PJV3
Member
I don't see post liberal politics lasting long, even when we leave the EU life won't go back to the 1960s. Global citizens are still going to exist in real places around the UK.
It's just the modern world.
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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding
- Thread starter Jezbollah
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I don't see post liberal politics lasting long, even when we leave the EU life won't go back to the 1960s. Global citizens are still going to exist in real places around the UK.
It's just the modern world.
*Thinks I should vote SNP*
*Didn't bother asking if I think Scotland should be independent.*
(Also I'd never vote SNP, because they're actually depressingly authoritarian in a lot of ways).
jimbobsmells
Member
My wife and I are looking to buy our first home at the moment. We both work in the City and sit in the higher rate tax bracket. It's only with our combined income that we could afford a place within an hour's commute of London. I feel that would be impossible for a single person here, even on 80-90k without dangerously over leveraging. Remember that article is a couple of years old now.
Sounds like someone's a real outlier.
Charles Brandon
Member
You've got a combined income of over 300k and you can't get within an hour of London? Really? Unless you're looking at five bedroom houses that sounds a bit unlikely.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Isidewith algorithm is a bit weird sometimes.
I'm very pro immigration, and generally for government intervention for environmental causes, yet the website said I agree with BNP and UKIP on environmental and immigration issues. The overall percentage of both these parties was very low for me.
I'm very pro immigration, and generally for government intervention for environmental causes, yet the website said I agree with BNP and UKIP on environmental and immigration issues. The overall percentage of both these parties was very low for me.
Even though Im Norwegian, I took the sidewith website test just for fun.
SNP 80%
Plaid Cymru 78%
Liberal Democrat 71%
Sinn Féin 64%
Labour 61%
Green 60%
Conservative 60%
Democratic Unionist 56%
UKIP 46%
Your ideology... Left-Wing
Im suprised Labour didn't get higher and Ive never heard about Plaid Cymru.
SNP 80%
Plaid Cymru 78%
Liberal Democrat 71%
Sinn Féin 64%
Labour 61%
Green 60%
Conservative 60%
Democratic Unionist 56%
UKIP 46%
Your ideology... Left-Wing
Im suprised Labour didn't get higher and Ive never heard about Plaid Cymru.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Aye, my brother earns way over 100k and is struggling to buy a decent property in London. I've certainly never thought of him as particularly 'rich'!
HandsomeCharles
Member
It's kinda like the welsh equivalent of the SNP.
AHA-Lambda
Member
I side most with Plaid Cymru at 70%? Eh?? 
70% Plaid Cymru
69% SNP
65% Sinn Fein
63% Green
61% Lib Dem
59% Labour
35% Democratic Unionist
30% Conservative
28% UKIP
28% British National
Ideology: left-wing
70% Plaid Cymru
69% SNP
65% Sinn Fein
63% Green
61% Lib Dem
59% Labour
35% Democratic Unionist
30% Conservative
28% UKIP
28% British National
Ideology: left-wing
Huw_Dawson
Member
The Isidewith algorithm doesn't ask you about the Welsh language/independence or Scottish independence, so the nationalist scores are off for most people.
Charles Brandon
Member
They're the Welsh version of the SNP but with the difference that no-one in Wales really wants to be independent so they have less success. Their leader is quite good though and if I'm honest I'd quite like to have sex with her even if she is a but mumsy. And old.
jimbobsmells
Member
No i got that wrong, I meant to say higher rate not top rate. Combined income is closer to half that.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Sorry I got wires crossed there. I'm not doing it on purpose. Specifically on Art 28, yes it was a mean and nasty bit of legislation and it is good that it is gone and a shame that it took so long. And I understand where you are coming from. I still think that it actually does matter quite a lot if people change their minds - but let's leave it at that, eh?
Charles Brandon
Member
Ah - that explains it. Still a very decent income but I can believe that you'd have trouble on that, as ridiculous as that seems. Have you tried Walthamstow? Seems alright round there these days, lots of fun to be had and not too pricey (for London anyway).
ferrasvansen
Member
Interesting results for me, seems to agree with my decision to vote Snp. But that LD score was unexpected.
SNP 67%
Liberal Democrat 66%
Labour 61%
Green 64%
Conservative 37%
UKIP 33%.
SNP 67%
Liberal Democrat 66%
Labour 61%
Green 64%
Conservative 37%
UKIP 33%.
FortuneFaded
Member
Given that I'm in England, I guess it'll have to be the Lib-dems.
Huw_Dawson
Member
^ How on Earth did you go SF - LD - Labour?!
I must really be misunderstanding SF - I usually associate them as being very hard left.
I must really be misunderstanding SF - I usually associate them as being very hard left.
Bits N Pieces
Member
After doing the test my top five looks like
SNP - 83%
Plaid Cymru -72%
Liberal Democrats - 69%
Labour - 68%
Green - 65%
Guess I should continue voting SNP then.
SNP - 83%
Plaid Cymru -72%
Liberal Democrats - 69%
Labour - 68%
Green - 65%
Guess I should continue voting SNP then.
I'm in a similar position as Jimbobsmells - my wife and I are on similar combined earnings. We've been struggling to find somewhere decent to buy.
Would love to buy in Walthamstow but she works near Slough, which'd be an arduous commute. Would definitely consider it if she worked in central/west, though - Walthamstow has surprisingly decent transport links.
The £70k issue is really fascinating, at least partially due to the way people are reacting. Though I don't think it's a brilliant thing for McDonnell to have said politically, the conversations around it have hammered home just how screwed up the economy is. £70k is, statistically, a very large income, but there are myriad circumstances where someone earning isn't in any way rich. We are a society that has been almost trained to live by our means, or thereabouts, and what this tends to mean is that, even if someone on £70k lives a relatively lavish life style, they are still relatively insecure financially.
My personal inclination is that someone on £70k could stand to pay more, say, by lowering the 45% tax threshold to £70k. However, the problem I would have with the policy in of itself is that what it fails to do in any sense is to take from those who are really, genuinely wealthy. By taxing income from employment so aggressively, but by putting in place so many ways of earning (via assets and investments) that are taxed lower or barely at all, we entrench a system where those who are already wealthy don't have to give much more but those who are trying to become wealthy get absolutely screwed. This policy seems especially laughable when Labour are committing to continuing the triple lock on pensions. The system is tilted against the young enough already, is it not?
I am just entering my third year of employment but am on a high salary - I do not feel remotely wealthy as someone who is renting and saving to buy a home - but I would be willing to pay more tax. What I find very hard to accept, however, is someone like me paying more while those who accumulated their wealth in decades gone by can sit pretty with buoyant pensions, assets, and investments barely pay any tax. I'm willing to pay more - but I want to pay a fair share. Between student loans, national insurance and income tax, I lost 40% of my gross income last year. I'm okay with that percentage, but not when most much wealthier people don't pay anywhere near that rate on their total income.
My personal inclination is that someone on £70k could stand to pay more, say, by lowering the 45% tax threshold to £70k. However, the problem I would have with the policy in of itself is that what it fails to do in any sense is to take from those who are really, genuinely wealthy. By taxing income from employment so aggressively, but by putting in place so many ways of earning (via assets and investments) that are taxed lower or barely at all, we entrench a system where those who are already wealthy don't have to give much more but those who are trying to become wealthy get absolutely screwed. This policy seems especially laughable when Labour are committing to continuing the triple lock on pensions. The system is tilted against the young enough already, is it not?
I am just entering my third year of employment but am on a high salary - I do not feel remotely wealthy as someone who is renting and saving to buy a home - but I would be willing to pay more tax. What I find very hard to accept, however, is someone like me paying more while those who accumulated their wealth in decades gone by can sit pretty with buoyant pensions, assets, and investments barely pay any tax. I'm willing to pay more - but I want to pay a fair share. Between student loans, national insurance and income tax, I lost 40% of my gross income last year. I'm okay with that percentage, but not when most much wealthier people don't pay anywhere near that rate on their total income.
paradox121
Member
81% SNP
75% Plaid Cymru
74% Liberal Democrats
64% Green
63% Labour
59% Sinn Fein
57% Democratic Unionist
54% Conservative
43% UKIP
31% British National
Which is great other than the fact that I don't live in Scotland and don't think they should become independent. Other than that we're a total match!
Slightly worried I've been branded a left-wing authoritarian though.
75% Plaid Cymru
74% Liberal Democrats
64% Green
63% Labour
59% Sinn Fein
57% Democratic Unionist
54% Conservative
43% UKIP
31% British National
Which is great other than the fact that I don't live in Scotland and don't think they should become independent. Other than that we're a total match!
Slightly worried I've been branded a left-wing authoritarian though.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Unfortunately global citizens and those who are living an international lifestyle are going to be a huge minority so cannot swing things. Leaving the EU is pretty much a big 'fuck you' to people who live an international lifestyle or to those who want to live an international lifestyle. It will cause someone like me grievous harm, for example.
FortuneFaded
Member
I'm guess I'm just that good.
I sympathise that you guys are struggling to buy a house where you want to live, but I don't think "being able to buy a house in London" is a good metric of whether a person is rich or not.
Charles Brandon
Member
West is a problem. It's way more expensive that east and much more boring, take it from me, I live in Acton.
it's all relative innit
AHA-Lambda
Member
lol I got same
QuicheFontaine
Member
I think to be 'rich' you need to at least own two properties. That's like the absolute minimum entry requirements surely.
Just moved from Stepney Green (near Whitechapel) to Maida Vale last month - I'm over East London, to be honest.
It actually costs us less to rent in Maida Vale than Stepney Green too - East is pretty damn expensive nowadays.
Well I could certainly make up to 50% more money by working in London. But then I'd have to work in London
HandsomeCharles
Member
TBH if I were earning 100k in London I would slum it for 5 years and save every last penny, then GTFO and move north, buy a house with a very small mortgage and enjoy a cushy life for the rest of my days.
Huw_Dawson
Member
I'm in Edmonton. Enfield-ish area is still pretty OK price wise.
Do you realise how privileged you sound complaining about not being able to "live an international lifestyle"?
If only it was that simple.
I thought that prior to moving to London, but the more time I spend here the less I want to go back to Leeds.
Biggest factors, for me, are how multicultural London is and how rarely I experience racism here compared to Leeds (I'm of South Asian descent and regularly received racist abuse in Leeds). The crappy career prospects don't help either.
CyclopsRock
Member
I could work in London, LA or New York and that's basically it, doing my job. Maybe Sydney too.
Charles Brandon
Member
High class prostitute? Racist cab driver? Madam Tussaud's 'host'? Auctioneer?
No, I wouldn't think so. A person can still be rich and choose not to make investments (or make bad ones)
Me and my partner are have a combined income of just under £60k and own a flat in Manchester, I would say we are comfortable rather than rich.
I have a mate in London who got an early job in a successful tech startup and is now able to afford to rent a Thames-side 2 bedroom flat somewhere near Chelsea. I'd still say hes rich, despite him having no chance of affording to buy the property he lives in
I get that its relative, but what you guys are talking about is more down to the mental nature of London property, not that you don't have an income high enough to be considered rich.
On most of the questions there is a YES / NO / Other
If you click the 'other' button you get a wider range of points and there are two in the Nuclear question that sound as if they match up to your comments above (basically not for it - we should invest in renewable instead or yes for it but only while renewable can be setup and funded)
PJV3
Member
To be honest I don't see the problem with it, it was a fundamental right(well pan European lifestyle) until the referendum result. Unless he meant like some Arabian playboy then I get you.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
How so? The EU offered such opportunities to everyone. I'm not rich or privileged at all. Leaving will just ensure this will be for the rich only. I think with the cost of education today, if you want to do another degree for example, the EU has members that offer courses in English for much cheaper than in the UK, to give one example of how the EU overall is a good thing for people.
I live in London, looking for work that pays £20k+ and it's still an impossibility for me to get my own place to live. To rent my own place I have to relocate. Forget about ownership.
Charles Brandon
Member
For me, you're only rich if you don't have to check how much something costs. If you can go out to dinner, buy a holiday, house, car, clothes whatever at whatever quality you want (within reason) and not have to check the price tag to make sure you can afford it, then you're rich. Many people can be well off or 'comfortable' but they can't do that. Very few people are rich because being rich is, in my opinion, a relative term, same as being poor. Not that that means they shouldn't be taxed more.
More relevantly, outside the south-east, £70k is a lot of money but in London in particular, a 5-10% tax hike at that level would put a lot of people into a degree of hardship. I think it's too low personally for that reason.
More relevantly, outside the south-east, £70k is a lot of money but in London in particular, a 5-10% tax hike at that level would put a lot of people into a degree of hardship. I think it's too low personally for that reason.
Solving this sort of thing within the UK would solve a lot of problems. People give the Northern powerhouse branding shit but moving jobs and investment to the North should definitely be a priority in my opinion.
I mean yeah it is poor phrasing, but beyond that I'd say there are multiple things that would stop someone moving to a European capital before you get to the actual legal right to work problems.
Now that's a party
ReplacementPelican
Member
I do always enjoying using 'isidewith', seems my highest party is Labour at 66%, surprising. Not sure if I should be happy or sad that my highest agreement with a party isn't that great at all.
The northern powerhouse isn't going to do anything to shift the creative industries based in London outside of London. Look at the list cyclops made - can you see yourself adding Manchester to that?
Certain industries require a key concentration of creative, tech and legal types that are only found in a few, rare world class cities. Hopefully London won't be too damaged by Brexit.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
The Northern Powerhouse is dead, the whole thing was an exercise in shifting to exports.
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