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[Deleted member 231381]

It's community thing. Probably seen at the most extreme in the (now sadly almost vanished) Lancashire Wakes weeks when entire towns would decamp to the seaside simultaneously. Still happens on a smaller scale, days out with friends and their families, barbecue for the neighbours, getting together with far-flung family, village fetes, are all made a bunch easier without having to synchronise everybody's days off months in advance.

You might not notice it now, but you'd probably miss it if they went away.

I know, that was the second part of my post. It's generational though - people my age have never known that, so it doesn't mean as much to us. On a personal level, more bank holidays means very little to me. However, I do actually think Maledict, for example, has underrated it as a policy. It won't sell coming from Corbyn, because nothing does, but in the hands of someone else that's quite a good policy for attracting back the traditional working class - it's a communal day people share in, with patriotic overtones by putting it on the Saint's Days, that offers the chance for more overtime pay if necessary - what you and I agree on above. Hence my comments about the London metropolitan elite.

 

[pswii60]

Stop talking nonsense. We have hardly any bank holidays compete with other countries. http://metro.co.uk/2015/04/03/happy...d-has-more-bank-holidays-than-the-uk-5131970/

As if adding 4 more days would result in big business going "yeah you know what, lets not bother".

Oh lol, using that article. In France for example, only one of the bank holidays is actually statutory. In the USA, they get 10-15 fewer days annual leave than we do in the UK. I get 25 days annual leave in addition to bank holidays, that would be unheard of in most US jobs.

I know if our number of back holidays increases, those on salaries will likely see our annual leave days go down, so we'll end up with far less flexibility. Fuck that!

 

[PJV3]

that's what I meant - I meant SNP voters, rather than SNP as a party. Until we have a PR system, I don't see how the left can possibly win unless we are willing to work under a single, national party. That will require compromises by all parties - e.g. of course the Lib Dem voters won't be willing to switch to Labour while Corbyn is leader - but I just don't see any other feasible path. FPTP means the SNP are hyper-represented in Scotland all out of proportion to their vote, which means the Conservatives are coalesced around as the natural counterweight unionist party. Under PR, Labour and SNP can co-exist more easily and it becomes harder for the Conservatives to use coalition of chaos because frankly they'd probably have to use coalitions as well.

I have a feeling what is left of the labour supporters up there might just say fuck it and support independence if the results stay this bad.

It looks like it would be easier to rename the SNP than rebuild the labour party the way it's going currently.
The left are in a right bloody pickle.

 

[Daft Bird]

I took the isidewith test and only got a 55% as my highest score, it was for the Conservatives. I'm from the USA for reference.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Does anyone have any idea what sort of candidates are standing for the Tories in Scotland? Surely some of the stuff they will be expected to support in the HoC would be totally toxic in Scotland (ie hard Brexit-y stuff)? I guess the Tory whips could just look the other way because they'll have a 100+ seat majority but still..

I have no data to prove this for Scotland specifically, but I think it's probably the same problem that the Liberal Democrats face in England. Lots of people preferred Remain to Leave... but if they have to Leave, they'd rather go full hog about it. The SNP banked on Scottish Remainers being solid in their convictions and Scottish Leavers being willing to compromise, but it actually looks like the complete reverse. In that respect, Scotland is no different from England, at least.

I would never, ever have thought it, but it looks like the EU referendum has divided Labour and the SNP and united the Conservatives. We live in crazy times.

 

[daviyoung]

I took the isidewith test and only got a 55% as my highest score, it was for the Conservatives. I'm from the USA for reference.

Typical

My results if I were an American:

 

[Chinner]

I have no data to prove this for Scotland specifically, but I think it's probably the same problem that the Liberal Democrats face in England. Lots of people preferred Remain to Leave... but if they have to Leave, they'd rather go full hog about it. The SNP banked on Scottish Remainers being solid in their convictions and Scottish Leavers being willing to compromise, but it actually looks like the complete reverse. In that respect, Scotland is no different from England, at least.

I would never, ever have thought it, but it looks like the EU referendum has divided Labour and the SNP and united the Conservatives. We live in crazy times.

yup, looks like the tories are going to have a bigger run in government than new labour. oh well, it was nice having the NHS while it lasted.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Any idea when the new manifestos are up? Is there a good place to read them all together, rather than go to each party's site?

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Any idea when the new manifestos are up? Is there a good place to read them all together, rather than go to each party's site?

Manifestos should be out the first week of May. There will almost certainly be some snazzy website where you can assemble and compare them.

Can't imagine Labour are going to have an anti-nuclear or pro-Russia stance in their manifesto, but by all means Corbyn can go around not being firm on common sense policy issues. Only helps the LDs.

 

[phisheep]

I can just about see the LibDems coming out of this as the official opposition.

They won't do it at the ballot box, because of the electoral maths and FPTP. But if Corbyn refuses (again) to step down I could see there being enough Labour defections to tip the balance.

It's all crazy.

 

[Chinner]

I can just about see the LibDems coming out of this as the official opposition.

They won't do it at the ballot box, because of the electoral maths and FPTP. But if Corbyn refuses (again) to step down I could see there being enough Labour defections to tip the balance.

It's all crazy.

You think Corbyn will be too stubborn to leave even if he gets crushed?

 

[PJV3]

Manifestos should be out the first week of May. There will almost certainly be some snazzy website where you can assemble and compare them.

Can't imagine Labour are going to have an anti-nuclear or pro-Russia stance in their manifesto, but by all means Corbyn can go around not being firm on common sense policy issues. Only helps the LDs.

Why does Corbyn get tied up in knots over stupid shit, if we're at the point of launching nukes, there's a good chance the US has already launched theirs. Just lie you daft old fuck.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

You think Corbyn will be too stubborn to leave even if he gets crushed?

If I were a betting man, I wouldn't put money on it either way, let's say that.

 

[cjp]

Was quite impressed by Farron's appearance on Peston this morning.

 

[phisheep]

You think Corbyn will be too stubborn to leave even if he gets crushed?

I think it is possible.

 

[Dougald]

You think Corbyn will be too stubborn to leave even if he gets crushed?

I do. But I hope I'm wrong

Heck, I thought Brexit infighting would rip the Conservatives apart after the referendum but here we are

 

[PJV3]

I think it is possible.

I think he might try, the members will probably have lost the will to keep him.. hopefully.

 

[Chinner]

There won't any reason for him to stay if he gets humiliated at the polls and no excuse can hide a pure defeat in numbers. As you say maybe labour mps may start defecting if he doesn't leave.

 

[Dougald]

The cynic in me says his supporters will blame the 'MSM' for his inevitable poor showing and he'll stay on somehow

 

[Juicy Bob]

Come on guys. He'll go if Labour get crushed.

 

[PJV3]

Come on guys. He'll go if Labour get crushed.

I think he wanted out earlier to be fair to him, he's got a few bastards like Milne that make things difficult to function normally around him.

Well that seemed to be the rumour in the earlier part of the PLP rebellion.

 

[cyberheater]

Come on guys. He'll go if Labour get crushed.

He'll stay as he'll say he's got a clear mandate to rebuild the party.

 

[phisheep]

He'll stay as he'll say he's got a clear mandate to rebuild the party.

June 9th: "The fight starts now"

 

[PJV3]

June 9th: "The fight starts now"

I would have to join the libdems if he says anything remotely like that and won, I'm not too far from Corbyn politically, I just can't stand how oblivious he is to what is happening.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Even Polly Toynbee thinks he will stay.

 

[Violet_0]

my results from the poll

I was like 97% Team Bernie in the US poll. I'm neither from the UK nor the US

 

[Real Hero]

Corbyn might stay but I think people are over estimating the delusion of the majority of his supporters. Of course there's the hardcore that will cry abut the 'MSM' but I still think a crushing defeat will sap the enthusiasm and support for him from most people

 

[affleck1981]

The biggest and bluest. To be precise:

Aberdeen South SNP -> Con
West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine SNP -> Con
Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk SNP -> Con
Dumfries and Galloway SNP -> Con
East Dunbartonshire SNP -> LibDem
East Lothian SNP -> Con
Edinburgh South Labour -> Con
Edinburgh South West SNP -> Con
Moray SNP -> Con
Perth and North Perthshire SNP -> Con
East Renfrewshire SNP -> Con
Stirling SNP -> Con

by the current projections.

Not massively suprised by Berwickshire - my old town is in there and there's a lot of naturally stereotypically Tory and Union supporters there - farmers and people who work across the border.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Tories pledging to cut energy bills if they're elected.

I'd like to know how they're going to fund that when they're blowing up the economy by leaving the single market.

Magic pixie dust?

Meanwhile, Corbyn is pledging to get rid of all Grammar schools, which I can't imagine will go down well in, say, East Lancashire.

Meanwhile, 40% of Peston's interview with Farron this morning was on religion, and Nuttall apparently thinks that Jewish law is fine but Muslim law isn't.

This general election is already off to a good start.

 

[Real Hero]

So farron refused to say if gay sex is a sin again. What a dick

 

[theaface]

So farron refused to say if gay sex is a sin again. What a dick

As has been pointed out many times here, his Christian beliefs have no correlation with his actions as a politician. His voting record shows him to be incredibly pro LGBT when it actually matters. I may disagree with his religious beliefs but it's his actions that count. Moreover, thinking something is a sin does not necessarily equate with judging it negatively.

You should ask yourself why the media are obsessed with this 'gotcha' line of questioning in the first place. I don't recall May (the vicar's daughter) and Corbyn being repeatedly bashed over the head with this. It's a pointless distraction to actual matters of policy (yes, including LGBT rights).

He's answered the question as best he can within the constraints of his faith and continues to act in a pro LGBT way when it counts. People should move on.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

He's answered the question as best he can within the constraints of his faith and continues to act in a pro LGBT way when it counts. People should move on.

It won't be that easy unfortunately. The liberal weakspot is "no true Liberal" questioning, where you attempt to discredit the credentials of liberal opponents - which is why you see Michael Gove and Liz Kendall on the sofa afterwards attacking him about it, when both of them should, and do, know better.

 

[Real Hero]

As has been pointed out many times here, his Christian beliefs have no correlation with his actions as a politician. .

I couldn't vote from someone who I know thinks being gay is a sin

 

[Huw_Dawson]

I couldn't vote from someone who I know thinks being gay is a sin

Why?

 

[Real Hero]

Why?

Because I wouldn't want to? I think it is a terrible thing to think? It is a good a reason as any not to vote for someone

 

[PJV3]

I couldn't vote from someone who I know thinks being gay is a sin

He probably thinks everything related to sex is a sin, even a five knuckle shuffle thinking about Felicity Kendal.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Because I wouldn't want to? I think it is a terrible thing to think?

Alright, but have you actually thought this through - you're not willing to vote for the most LGBT friendly party over someone's private beliefs.

Oh, just to be clear. you should scroll up a ways. I posted Farron's exact comments on how he doesn't think being gay is a sin - he got asked directly in the Commons about it.

The question he got asked on Peston was if gay SEX - i.e. sodomy - was a sin, of course, which is drilling down further into the religious issue.

I do want to know why you think it matters if someone else has a religious view, if everything he's ever done is to say that whatever his religion might think, he's for the most tolerant society possible?

I also want to know - as this might help you contextualise the situation - if this was about a Muslim candidate, would you also take the same line of thinking?

JUST TO BE CLEAR I'm just trying to figure out your logic here rather than just distaste, as that will help me think over the issue as well. My logic is that liberalism and being religious are not incompatible, and Farron is a good example of that.

 

[Uzzy]

Tories pledging to cut energy bills if they're elected.

I've found the Tories election manifesto. Strange place for it, but you know..

 

[CCS]

Corbyn said we have less Bank Holidays than other countries. This alone makes him unworthy to hold office.

It's "fewer", goddammit!

 

[phisheep]

I explained further up the thread why I think this should be a non-issue, but it looks like it could damage Farron - which would be a considerable shame not just for him but for the future of political discourse in the country.

It looks to me that he sought to put the issue to bed by that precisely worded (and presumably planted) question in the commons, but it is coming back to bite him. I only hope that enough people line up with what Huw and I say, that it's not relevant to his politics.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

It looks to me that he sought to put the issue to bed by that precisely worded (and presumably planted) question in the commons, but it is coming back to bite him. I only hope that enough people line up with what Huw and I say, that it's not relevant to his politics.

That wasn't planted - it was a Tory trying to catch him out in the middle of his speech about why the LDs were voting for the election. Same as the SNP interrupting him with "Yes or no?" after he got asked about a coalition with the Tories. You can see the whole thing on Hansard.

Overall, this is definitely going to be a thing that comes up over and over again, because it's something the media perceive as a weakness. Corbyn won't get asked about anti-semitism in the Labour Party, though anywhere near as much, as he's likely to just get asked credibility questions.

If Farron just does what he's good at - which is finding a line that works and sticking dogmatically to it when asked - then he should be OK in general.

But bear in mind he's being asked theological questions because he's a Christian - it's as unfair as asking a Muslim candidate their theological views.

 

[theaface]

I couldn't vote from someone who I know thinks being gay is a sin

Of course you're free to do as you please and I don't disagree that his position is wrong. I just think that what he would actually do in power that matters, and his voting record in this regard speaks volumes. I also see my vote being for the whole party and their policies, rather than just the religious beliefs of one man.

 

[Ridisc]

Listening to Corbyn on Marr and, while I sympathise that he doesnt want to be tied down to comments hes making now when the facts might change in 2 months, I feel like ive learned absolutely nothing about how he intends to run the country other than "I plan to talk to people, I plan to get people around the table".

 

[Real Hero]

Listening to Corbyn on Marr and, while I sympathise that he doesnt want to be tied down to comments hes making now when the facts might change in 2 months, I feel like ive learned absolutely nothing about how he intends to run the country other than "I plan to talk to people, I plan to get people around the table".

Yeah I'm voting from him but I HATE when he goes on about 'getting a more peaceful world' like everyone else isn't, it just doesn't mean anything and is offering fuck all to people.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Yeah I'm voting from him

What's your opinion on Labour failing to kick out Livingstone for anti semitic comments?

 

[Jackpot]

The good thing about Farron is that we elect MPs, not a PM.

Why?

I'm voting Lib Dem but the above shouldn't even be needed to be asked.

 

[Real Hero]

What's your opinion on Labour failing to kick out Livingstone for anti semitic comments?

I don't think what he said was anti semitic, just bizarre and pointless to keep bringing up. It would have probably been smarter politically to kick him out

 

[daviyoung]

Listening to Corbyn on Marr and, while I sympathise that he doesnt want to be tied down to comments hes making now when the facts might change in 2 months, I feel like ive learned absolutely nothing about how he intends to run the country other than "I plan to talk to people, I plan to get people around the table".

Are you kidding me? Dancing around questions is what all politicians do. For the questions around foreign policy like 'would you assassinate the leader of ISIS?' he was atypically flakey but his domestic positions to completely remove private contracts to the NHS and turn grammar schools into comprehensives were more straight forward than you'd get from any politician.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

I'm voting Lib Dem but the above shouldn't even be needed to be asked.

Actually it does - it's good to know why someone actually thinks the way they do, rather than just assuming.

One big issue in modern politics is that everything is very skin deep, because the actual issues have to be sold to people who don't care about politics. So asking questions - on the doorstep, or online - helps to actually figure out what someone's views are, and if someone's just saying something because they're not on the same political team.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

Yeah, never mind Clive Lewis, that would be individual upset of the night by far if it were to happen. The Westminster leader of the SNP defeated by the Scottish Conservatives would be an absolute shockwave to the system.

I've also heard whispers of Alex Salmond losing his seat, if the Lib Dems particularly do well in certain Scottish seats. Another party that has traditionally done well in Scottish elections, rebounding a little in the recent Scottish Parliamentary elections.