• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding

Status
Not open for further replies.
Theonik

Theonik

Member
Falling back to WTO rules is also not true. The UK is not a member of the WTO so it would need to re-enter post-leaving. Hence having no transitional deal is completely suicidal for trade.

TimmmV said:
Sorry, that wasn't aimed specifically at you. My complaint is more at the way Brown selling off the gold is portrayed as this huge economic mistake, whereas recent Tory privatisations are totally glossed over.
Click to expand...
In the conservative lexicon, gold is good. Privatisations are also a good way to get those companies out of the inefficient mitts of government and into smart businessmen. i.e. It's an easy spin.

TimmmV said:
Well that was a mental image I certainly didn't need for the commute back home
Click to expand...
Can't wait to be home eh?
 
P

Peccavi

Member
Theonik said:
Falling back to WTO rules is also not true. The UK is not a member of the WTO so it would need to re-enter post-leaving. Hence having no transitional deal is completely suicidal for trade.


In the conservative lexicon, gold is good. Privatisations are also a good way to get those companies out of the inefficient mitts of government and into smart businessmen. i.e. It's an easy spin.


Can't wait to be home eh?
Click to expand...

Uh, the UK is one of the founding members of the WTO, not sure why you think otherwise...
 
Theonik

Theonik

Member
Peccavi said:
Uh, the UK is one of the founding members of the WTO, not sure why you think otherwise...
Click to expand...
Its membership currently is through the EU the UK isn't an independent member of the WTO. The UK will have to submit its own schedule after leaving and that would have to be approved by all 160 members of the WTO.
 
Jezbollah

Jezbollah

Member
Tamanator said:
UKIP are finished as a political force. We are now seeing the pitiful downward spiral of the remnants.

Will only serve to consolidate the Tory vote and strengthen the inevitable May victory. I'm looking very forward to watching this play out.
Click to expand...

This is going to be one of the few positive aspects of this election.
 
phisheep

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Crab said:
Not really, though. The negotiation of treaties is a matter of royal prerogative. There's no more bills that need passing; May can do whatever she likes in the process of Brexit from this point on. The only thing she requires Parliament for is to vote for the final deal... but given the alternative to voting for a final deal is crashing out to WTO terms, nobody will vote for that. This is not all like Major's situation, which required a series of contentious votes to amend UK law in-line with the EU requirements and where there were a variety of feasible alternatives.

What she's saying is not true at all.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's quite right. It's not just about negotiating the treaty. Much as they are trying to shovel stuff into the Great Repeal Bill, I suspect there will be additional quite significant primary legislation that will need to be passed in order to make Brexit actually work - some of it may need to go through during the negotiation period, some afterwards if there is a transition period, but it will need to be able to be committed to during negotiations and with the confidence of a sufficiently big majority in the Commons to be able to bully it through the Lords without recourse to the Parliament Acts.

We'll see, but I'd be astonished if this can be done with "no more bills".
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
Maledict said:
It's a brilliant line - Blairs article in the guardian yesterday touched on it. She's basically turned a party political stance into a national interests stance - support May to get the best deal in Europe. The issue is, it really, really works because 95% of the county have almost no understanding of Brexit (including most remained).

Whether it's crossbys or not, one thing is certain right now - it's absolutely working. She is on course for a stonking majority, and it won't be because of her specific policy proposals but because this has become a 'support your country, vote for May' election.
Click to expand...

It works especially well since she's up against an opponent who's easy to portray as unpatriotic.
 
T

TimmmV

Member
Theonik said:
In the conservative lexicon, gold is good. Privatisations are also a good way to get those companies out of the inefficient mitts of government and into smart businessmen. i.e. It's an easy spin.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I get why. Gold is easily relatable to wealth, whereas shares + investment are more complicated. Its still frustrating that it works so well though, its so easy to have a google and see why it wasn't that bad

Theonik said:
Can't wait to be home eh?
Click to expand...

Well yeah, its difficult to walk a couple miles when your reproductive organs have retreated as far back inside your body as they can manage
 
C

Camp Freddie

Member
phisheep said:
I don't think that's quite right. It's not just about negotiating the treaty. Much as they are trying to shovel stuff into the Great Repeal Bill, I suspect there will be additional quite significant primary legislation that will need to be passed in order to make Brexit actually work - some of it may need to go through during the negotiation period, some afterwards if there is a transition period, but it will need to be able to be committed to during negotiations and with the confidence of a sufficiently big majority in the Commons to be able to bully it through the Lords without recourse to the Parliament Acts.

We'll see, but I'd be astonished if this can be done with "no more bills".
Click to expand...

This is a good point. I don't think May needs a stronger hand in negotiating with the EU since whatever deal she negotiates is a fait acompli, but she might need a stronger hand to pass some primary legislation for things too big for the Great Repeal Bill.
For example, our border control and customs authorities will need to reform since they won't just keep following EU law. May could be voted down currently if she went too hard on immigration or had to add WTO tariffs to things that are unpopular in Tory constituencies. She could have a lot of denialist Tories trying to go for Hard, Red, White and Blue Brexit but opposing a lot of what WTO rules would actually mean, "We voted for the freedom to make any trade deals we want! Unilaterally! We won't be tolds what to do by unelected bureaucrats at the WTO!"

She needs a stronger hand for giving us a good fisting once the Brexit foreplay is done with.
Tory divisions on Europe have been resolved, but Tory divisions on post-Brexit Britain are likely to be huge. I just hope there's a skilled opposition to capitalise on this. Don't make me rely on Ken Clarke!
 
A

Acorn

Member
I'm worried about the American kind of wanking over the flag. I hope it doesn't last beyond this brexit shit. The less Americanised our politics are the better.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
Theonik said:
Its membership currently is through the EU the UK isn't an independent member of the WTO. The UK will have to submit its own schedule after leaving and that would have to be approved by all 160 members of the WTO.
Click to expand...

This isn't true - our rates are currently set at what the EU's are (obviously) but we would still be a part of the WTO when we leave. The difference is that the EU's tariffs within the WTO are different to the maximum ones. With no agreement we would move to the maximum ones - but they're still the WTO numbers.
 
A

Acorn

Member
PJV3 said:
Yeah, I wouldn't read too much into it beyond this election, I can't blame people for not trusting the labour party to run a bath at the moment.
Click to expand...
Hope Starmer ends up leading labour. Harder to stick unpatriotic on a man that spent years locking up pieces of shit.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Acorn said:
Hope Starmer ends up leading labour. Harder to stick unpatriotic on a man that spent years locking up pieces of shit.
Click to expand...

The party has to stop the infighting before worrying about the Tories, if he's still around after the labour rapture I hope he goes for it.
 
Theonik

Theonik

Member
chancellor said:
It's pretty harsh that this even became an issue considering his voting record in relation to gay marriage. It's almost as if just because he is Christian that must mean he agrees with every word in the Bible.
Click to expand...
If he wants to call himself a Christian that is the case yes.
 
P

Par Score

Member
chancellor said:
It's pretty harsh that this even became an issue considering his voting record in relation to gay marriage. It's almost as if just because he is Christian that must mean he agrees with every word in the Bible.
Click to expand...

No, it's almost as if he repeatedly waffled on the subject when directly questioned.

His voting record on LGBT rights is fairly unimpeachable, but nobody ever gay-bashed me because of the rights he voted for. Homophobic bullying, harassment, assault and murder is about attitudes towards homosexuality, not what the law of the land says.

Tim Farron is the leader of a supposedly Liberal and Progressive party, and that position is wholly and completely incompatible with believing being gay, or having gay sex, is a sin. Attitudes and views such as that are what get LGBT people killed. Simple as.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Acorn said:
Hope Starmer ends up leading labour. Harder to stick unpatriotic on a man that spent years locking up pieces of shit.
Click to expand...

He's good value to take a punt on right now, IMO. For some reason Cooper is at 4-1, which is a joke.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
PJV3 said:
Cooper will set off the Iraq alarm, I can't see her winning.
Click to expand...

Also, being as nice as possible... she lost to Corbyn already. If you're not competent enough to beat the worst Labour leader since Lansbury in a 3 vs 1 fight, you really don't deserve to be let anywhere near the leadership any time ever again.
 
A

Acorn

Member
PJV3 said:
Cooper will set off the Iraq alarm, I can't see her winning.
Click to expand...
At some point Iraq will cease to be an effective attack. I think we've reached that point due to more recent historical events. Brexit for or against at the time is the new Iraq imo.

It will override any other concern rightly or wrongly.
 
K

King_Moc

Banned
Par Score said:
No, it's almost as if he repeatedly waffled on the subject when directly questioned.

His voting record on LGBT rights is fairly unimpeachable, but nobody ever gay-bashed me because of the rights he voted for. Homophobic bullying, harassment, assault and murder is about attitudes towards homosexuality, not what the law of the land says.

Tim Farron is the leader of a supposedly Liberal and Progressive party, and that position is wholly and completely incompatible with believing being gay, or having gay sex, is a sin. Attitudes and views such as that are what get LGBT people killed. Simple as.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Him struggling to answer that question was not the actions of a man that believes gay sex isn't a sin. And in 2017 it's pretty damn weird to think that.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Crab said:
Also, being as nice as possible... she lost to Corbyn already. If you're not competent enough to beat the worst Labour leader since Lansbury in a 3 vs 1 fight, you really don't deserve to be let anywhere near the leadership any time ever again.
Click to expand...

The squabbling about who should drop out was pretty bad, I should have taken that as a sign of things to come.

Acorn said:
At some point Iraq will cease to be an effective attack. I think we've reached that point due to more recent historical events. Brexit for or against at the time is the new Iraq imo.

It will override any other concern rightly or wrongly.
Click to expand...

You have more hope than I, the left love to pick at self inflicted wounds, brexit is a Tory fuck up.
 
A

Acorn

Member
PJV3 said:
The squabbling about who should drop out was pretty bad, I should have taken that as a sign of things to come.



You have more hope than I, the left love to pick at self inflicted wounds, brexit is a Tory fuck up.
Click to expand...
I just see brexit making Labour the new Euro obsessed party with pro and anti wings. It'll be the wedge tories use against labour, like they themselves used against tories. Time is a flat circle etc etc
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Acorn said:
I just see brexit making Labour the new Euro obsessed party with pro and anti wings. It'll be the wedge tories use against labour, like they themselves used against tories. Time is a flat circle etc etc
Click to expand...

I don't see what is left to talk about it, we're still maybe 5 years away from leaving completely, so perhaps 15 years at the earliest to even bring up rejoining.
 
A

Acorn

Member
PJV3 said:
I don't see what is left to talk about it, we're still maybe 5 years away from leaving completely, so perhaps 15 years at the earliest to even bring up rejoining.
Click to expand...
Maastricht created the schism that lasted until brexit. Futility didn't seem to matter (well it was futile until it wasn't...).

Infact it still arguably exists. Redwood & co.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
PJV3 said:
I don't see what is left to talk about it, we're still maybe 5 years away from leaving completely, so perhaps 15 years at the earliest to even bring up rejoining.
Click to expand...

Right, but much like Eurosceptic Tories, Europhilic lefties will persist in all weathers. I think it's pretty plausible that the Europe issue will continue to sever the left by keeping the Lib Dems and Labour at loggerheads.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Acorn said:
Maastricht created the schism that lasted until brexit. Futility didn't seem to matter (well it was futile until it wasn't...).
Click to expand...

Ah I get you now, yeah there will definitely be a pro EU side, but unlike a referendum to leave, rejoining is off the table for a long time now.

Unless things go to shit worse than even I think they will.
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
Hazzuh said:
Lib Dems have apparently chosen David Ward to stand in Bradford. You may remember him for his views on Jewish people..
Click to expand...

Yeah, this knocked me down for a feather. The dude has served his suspension and I have no idea of the context though. I can't imagine he'll do well if the attack ads against him are that obvious.

Watched back the Farron interview about gay sex, and to be honest I can see why he doesn't like talking about religion. The last question was "but you saying gay sex isn't a sin is contrary to the bible".

Extremely frustrating this is the line the media took with him, and they had to drag this out. But I do wish Farron had seen this far ahead and spoke about it early on.
 
R

Royal_Phalanx

Member
I think the referendum proved that the majority of working class are socially conservative. They simply have no interest in, say, going to live in Amsterdam, Berlin, etc. let alone leaving their home towns. All that stuff is just rich people doing frivolous things according to their point of view. So the single market is really of zero benefit to them based on how they feel. It saddens me that we'll all lose these opportunities, but it is how it is.

Labour is in a real quandary now, which is why Keir Starmer has a real hard task to try and hold on to both of their bases. He's been talking about changing how free movement works whilst trying to keep a lot of the benefits of the single market for example. I think Labour is fucked no matter what.
 
A

Acorn

Member
Royal_Phalanx said:
I think the referendum proved that the majority of working class are socially conservative. They simply have no interest in, say, going to live in Amsterdam, Berlin, etc. let alone leaving their home towns. All that stuff is just rich people doing frivolous things according to their point of view. So the single market is really of zero benefit to them based on how they feel. It saddens me that we'll all lose these opportunities, but it is how it is.

Labour is in a real quandary now, which is why Keir Starmer has a real hard task to try and hold on to both of their bases. He's been talking about changing how free movement works whilst trying to keep a lot of the benefits of the single market for example. I think Labour is fucked no matter what.
Click to expand...
The young working class still value the ability to have the option to possibly move abroad whether they actually will or not.

Tbh I've encountered the opinion that Scotland and Britain widely have nothing to offer the working class or BA degree holders my age (30 next month) and younger. It's anecdotal but it fits with my view of the apathy of my generation.
 
U

Uzzy

Member
Royal_Phalanx said:
I think the referendum proved that the majority of working class are socially conservative. They simply have no interest in, say, going to live in Amsterdam, Berlin, etc. let alone leaving their home towns. All that stuff is just rich people doing frivolous things according to their point of view. So the single market is really of zero benefit to them based on how they feel. It saddens me that we'll all lose these opportunities, but it is how it is.

Labour is in a real quandary now, which is why Keir Starmer has a real hard task to try and hold on to both of their bases. He's been talking about changing how free movement works whilst trying to keep a lot of the benefits of the single market for example. I think Labour is fucked no matter what.
Click to expand...

It's hard to think about travelling to the continent for work when you're struggling to find the money to travel to work here in the UK.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
[TNYT] Brazil Blocks X After Musk Ignores Court Orders
Social News Community 2
69
4K
ManaByte replied
Satya Nadella: Annual letter to stockholders. Content on new platforms will continue
3 4 5 6 7
349
16K
solidus12 replied
Fox News: Nazis, Anti-Semites, Holocaust Deniers "Slip Through" to GOP Ballot for Midterms
38
3K
Arkage replied
German Federal Elections 2017 |OT| Electing the new leader of the free world
46 47 48 49 50
2K
285K
Green Yoshi replied
AP: France’s Macron faces test in parliamentary elections
2
80
17K
Coffinhal replied
Top Bottom