Huw_Dawson
Member
Yup, nobody likes the Beeb when it is mean to them.
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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding
- Thread starter Jezbollah
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JonathanEx
Member
I think too often the BBC doesn't help themselves with their 'it requires someone criticising X to become a story', overly even-handed to the point of just spreading raw press statements rather than criticising, but the idea there's inbuilt biases that are brainwashing the public and we should follow the Canary, fucking bollocks mate
It's much the same as the US, I guess - "Fox and Breitbart are Truth Tellers!" - except in the UK it's the Left-wing doing it, not the Right. Maybe because mainstream media is centre or right-wing? But it seems a poor decision to push non-mainstream Left-wing media as the be-all-and-end-all... It can surely only end with the general electorate giving less credence to mainstream news media, which is not something the UK ought to be going towards.
To be fair, we have objective evidence that the right wing media are less trustworthy. The number of apologies and corrections the Mail and the Sun have to print in particular is far greater than the left wing press.
Roberto Larcos
Member
I think criticism of the BBC of late is fair. They've struggled with bias for the past few years - whether it's their shamelessly unbiased coverage of the Scottish independence referendum, or the substantial amount of airtime they gave to one fringe economist (Minford). I don't agree with the man, but they've also had knives out for Corbyn - I remember them repeating the 'Mao-style bicycle' line shortly after the first leadership election, and videos involving him have been edited in a manner that would make us cry 'dictatorship' if it happened in Russia. Even today, they have a prominent article supporting the 'strong and stable' narrative, courtesy of Laura K.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39777648
It's the government's job to rebut - not the BBCs. The above sounds like something that could've come straight from CCHQ.
They've also slipped far, far behind of C4 on the investigative side.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39777648
It's the government's job to rebut - not the BBCs. The above sounds like something that could've come straight from CCHQ.
They've also slipped far, far behind of C4 on the investigative side.
Randy Lanzarote
Member
It's pretty crazy how the US right wing and British left wing seem to be aligned in their mistrust (bordering on hostility) towards the media and news outlets. I guess its all part of the siege mentality they seemed to have adopted.
But then as others have mentioned, every other week the BBC is getting it from someone. I never know from one week to the next if we're in favour of saving the BBC, or all marching on Parliament to have it shutdown. :/
Huw_Dawson
Member
Channel 4 are just really good at investigation. They're supposed to be the edgy public broadcaster.
I mean regardless of what you might personally think about the BBCs bias, the Trust themselves has found Laura Kuenssberg to be biased against Jeremy Corbyn. I don't really blame her or them but I think political commentators in general are way too quick to gobble up whatever opinion spin teams give them and then endlessly regurgitate them rather than actually calling out the bullshit, and the people who feed it to them, where it exists.
The approach to anti-austerity is a perfect example of this, any story about spending more is framed with an air of suspicion about 'how can it possible to pay for it', as if the Tory way of balancing the books is the only possible way.
The approach to anti-austerity is a perfect example of this, any story about spending more is framed with an air of suspicion about 'how can it possible to pay for it', as if the Tory way of balancing the books is the only possible way.
Though you're kinda correct in terms of where this all ends, the bolded is completely untrue. The right wing are -at least- as vocal in their accusations of bias against the media. Hop onto any Have Your Say section on a BBC article and you will see, without fail, top-rated comments that suggest the BBC has a left-wing, pro-Brexit bent. The ultimate proof of this is this story, in which over seventy MPs attacked the BBC: - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39335904.
My personal belief is that the BBC does have a slight bent towards the status quo, rather than a left/right bias. They also fall into the same trap a lot of 'impartial media' do - they become impartial to a fault, representing opinions equally when one is backed by evidence and the other backed by lies.
That's an opinion piece by Laura, not a BBC news article. So, obviously, she's allowed to have an opinion. And I don't think anyone is better placed to talk about the politicians than Laura, I've never seen a journalist work so tirelessly. I swear she has a camper-van parked on downing street.
Roberto Larcos
Member
Sure, but if you're going to publish something that runs counter to a general understanding (based on recent and past events) - "Theresa May who is someone who does her homework, makes careful plans" - then you need to back it up. Ei qui affirmat 'non ei qui negat, incumbit probation - he who asserts must prove - is more than a legal maxim.
Yeah. And I think they've got a slight tendency to need to crush things down to levels of detail in mainstream news reporting that makes it impossible to really understand what's going on.
But they can't win in that regard. The reason they need to do it is because quite a lot of the general public really can't do detail. If they could we wouldn't have the makeup of Parliament (in all parties) that we do.
So May was in Cornwall today. Remember how she wasn't doing debates as she said that what she says out on the campaign trail is more important? Well, she allowed reporters three minutes each and they were forbidden from filming, or even photographing, her answering them.
And she said "strong and stable" a bit too.
http://www.cornwalllive.com/prime-m...ral-election/story-30306323-detail/story.html
And she said "strong and stable" a bit too.
http://www.cornwalllive.com/prime-m...ral-election/story-30306323-detail/story.html
Final Spark
Member
Still totally undecided on who to vote for in this election. I live in a Tory stronghold so it's unlikely that my vote will make much of a dent.
I think my problem is that my opinion on policies is all over the place so it's hard to align myself with one particular party. I guess pick the issue i feel strongest about and go for that party ?
I think my problem is that my opinion on policies is all over the place so it's hard to align myself with one particular party. I guess pick the issue i feel strongest about and go for that party ?
Theonik
Member
PJV3
Member
She is a loon, I thought we might have dodged the loony bullet when she won the leadership, if the Tories mess this election up it will be down to her control freakery.
w1ck3dn1nj4
Member
Make GB great again with GOAT combo... Labour + Hard Brexit + Diane Abbott as Chancellor of the Exchequer
Roberto Larcos
Member
It sounds like you've already identified your biggest issue - lack of representation. The only way to solve that is electoral reform. UKIP, the Lib Dems and the Greens are all in favour of electoral reform, so one of those will likely be your best bet.
QuicheFontaine
Member
The Strong and the Stable
That's hypnotic
Camp Freddie
Member
I think that one of the main truths in politics is that the stronger a party attacks the BBC, the more likely that the BBC is correct.
That goes for whether it's Alistair Campbell attacking their 'anti-war bias' and 'false' reports of a sexed-up dodgy dossier; Tories attacking the 'pessimistic' Brexit coverage; or left-wingers attacking reports of Corbyn's leadership problems.
The BBC do favour the status quo because they rarely try to rock the boat, but I'm not sure that's really a major fault.
I mean, if May lost a vote of no confidence and then had half of her remaining supporters resign from their posts within a year, do you really think the BBC would keep quiet?
The Tories seem to understand the old "I don't need to outrun the tiger, so long as I outrun you!" argument. They aren't actually strong or stable compared to any serious political benchmark, but so long as they are more strong and stable than Labour they will get away with it.
That goes for whether it's Alistair Campbell attacking their 'anti-war bias' and 'false' reports of a sexed-up dodgy dossier; Tories attacking the 'pessimistic' Brexit coverage; or left-wingers attacking reports of Corbyn's leadership problems.
The BBC do favour the status quo because they rarely try to rock the boat, but I'm not sure that's really a major fault.
I mean, if May lost a vote of no confidence and then had half of her remaining supporters resign from their posts within a year, do you really think the BBC would keep quiet?
The Tories seem to understand the old "I don't need to outrun the tiger, so long as I outrun you!" argument. They aren't actually strong or stable compared to any serious political benchmark, but so long as they are more strong and stable than Labour they will get away with it.
Ian Hislop criticized the BBC's easy treatment of the tories too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmZjlgSQ8h8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmZjlgSQ8h8
Huw_Dawson
Member
The growing realisation that we are run by lunatics and the chief opposition are lunatics.
A Labour MP is facing deselection for insufficient support of Corbyn.
May gives journalists three minutes to ask her questions, without cameras, and they were not allowed to ask why they could not film.
This contest is being fought between a communist and a vampire.
A Labour MP is facing deselection for insufficient support of Corbyn.
May gives journalists three minutes to ask her questions, without cameras, and they were not allowed to ask why they could not film.
This contest is being fought between a communist and a vampire.
Little Old Man
Member
Today's Labour gaffe proves Tony Blair right in one away, if nothing else: the importance of education, education, education!
I'll see myself out.
I'll see myself out.
Theonik
Member
If the press had any balls they'd record it anyway then see how she reacts/justifies here paranoia. She's practically collapsing on herself.
Huw_Dawson
Member
It is looking like May didn't really think through this decision to call an election. By any right she doesn't deserve to be PM if she runs from journalists!
EDIT: Another poll, another non-story. ICM's latest has us back to normality - 48/28/8/8.
I'm anticipating this rough polling until election day unless we see a late LD surge - but as it stands my prediction is that the LDs do well in target seats and only see a small recovery elsewhere.
EDIT: Another poll, another non-story. ICM's latest has us back to normality - 48/28/8/8.
I'm anticipating this rough polling until election day unless we see a late LD surge - but as it stands my prediction is that the LDs do well in target seats and only see a small recovery elsewhere.
New polls:
========
CON: 47% (-)
LAB: 28% (-)
LDEM: 8% (-1)
UKIP: 8% (-)
GRN: 4% (-)
(via @ICMResearch / 28 Apr - 02 May)
========
Also:
Theresa May is running a:
Good campaign: 41%
Bad campaign: 22%
Jeremy Corbyn:
Good campaign: 21%
Bad campaign: 40%
(via @ICMResearch)
========
========
CON: 47% (-)
LAB: 28% (-)
LDEM: 8% (-1)
UKIP: 8% (-)
GRN: 4% (-)
(via @ICMResearch / 28 Apr - 02 May)
========
Also:
Theresa May is running a:
Good campaign: 41%
Bad campaign: 22%
Jeremy Corbyn:
Good campaign: 21%
Bad campaign: 40%
(via @ICMResearch)
========
Fernando Fernandez
Member
May gurning whilst attempting to eat chips is 10x worse than Ed and the Bacon sandwich.
https://twitter.com/elliotwagland/status/859389958292987904
https://twitter.com/elliotwagland/status/859389958292987904
Huw_Dawson
Member
I told you lot this already:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39784164
But Clegg has confirmed it. LDs would hold a second referendum and campaign to Remain.
Not that it will do much for our poll ratings, I'd expect. But hey, no doubt now.
Oh, and LD membership is now at an all-time high.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39784164
But Clegg has confirmed it. LDs would hold a second referendum and campaign to Remain.
Not that it will do much for our poll ratings, I'd expect. But hey, no doubt now.
Oh, and LD membership is now at an all-time high.
Just don't get it. Honestly I don't
Huw_Dawson
Member
The Tories have a cast-iron lockdown on their message and they are made to look good by Labour.
Expect them to go back on it then if they ever get a sniff of power
That was an excellent episode all round
Huw_Dawson
Member
With who? We have ruled out coalitions with Corbyn, May and Sturgeon.
And how? A special conference would be called for any sort of coalition deal.
And by who? Farron runs the party now, not Clegg.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
This fucking country
PJV3
Member
Nice steady polling, only the LibDems seem to wobble.
Huw_Dawson
Member
If you want to know why the polls look as they are, go look at a newspaper rack the day after a humiliating leak from Brussels about the most important negotiations in decades and count how many times you see the brief mentioned.
I counted twice - once on the Guardian as the headline, once on the Times as a small side article.
Add in how, despite sentiment here and elsewhere, Leave won 52% of the vote. And the Tories are unambiguously the party of Leave.
Add in endless criticism of Labour.
Add in extremely little positive coverage of the LDs.
And you get the polls we see now.
The Tories and their allies are denying anybody else a platform. Strong and stable, suck it up and move on, you have no real choice, strong and stable.
Every media appearance by May is a weakness, so minimize media appearances and lock down on message. Excellent campaigning that will deliver May a majority of massive proportions.
I counted twice - once on the Guardian as the headline, once on the Times as a small side article.
Add in how, despite sentiment here and elsewhere, Leave won 52% of the vote. And the Tories are unambiguously the party of Leave.
Add in endless criticism of Labour.
Add in extremely little positive coverage of the LDs.
And you get the polls we see now.
The Tories and their allies are denying anybody else a platform. Strong and stable, suck it up and move on, you have no real choice, strong and stable.
Every media appearance by May is a weakness, so minimize media appearances and lock down on message. Excellent campaigning that will deliver May a majority of massive proportions.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
I don't understand why there are still Remainers who vote Tory when there's the Lib Dems. Is it a case of nobody believes the Lib Dems can actually win in their area and Corbyn is too shit so they're holding their nose at the "least bad" option? The Tory platform is to screw Remainers over. Someone offers you a way out of making a mistake and you want to keep doing the thing that you believe is a mistake? Like, what? The Brits don't protest unfortunately. I would rather we followed other European countries like France when it comes to not being passive. Not advocating we riot by the way.
I really want Conservative activists to come to my house actually so I can grill them with questions. I have many.
I really want Conservative activists to come to my house actually so I can grill them with questions. I have many.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
On the contrary, I'm firmly on the left and pretty much devastated at the damage being done by those with marxist leanings, of which Diane is certainly one.
She would be nowhere near front bench politics were it not for the nepotism and cronyism that is the root cause of Corbyn's problems with the PLP. She's not there on the basis of merit or talent, she's electorally toxic because of her racist comments, patronising attitude and general proclivity for saying the stupidest thing possible. I will say that a lot of abuse that gets levelled her way is also racist and bullying, but there's quite a bit of it that's deserved too.
There are others who are lower profile but fit with the nepotism and cronyism. Graeme Morris, Ian Lavery, John Mcdonnell, Lansman. Most of his inner circle are old allies from the LRC who are completely unfit for their positions.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Abbott's only in her job because she fucked Corbyn back in the day. I'm pretty sure of that.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Tory remainers largely care more about voting loyally than voting correctly. The soft conservative vote is massive.
"I votes Remain, but I trust May to make the best of it."
Abbot is only in the job because she's a reliable socialist. The core group is Corbyn/McDonnell/Thornberry/Abbot. All reliable socialists, all very Militant. Corbyn can endure the PLP but he has absolute control over meaningful policy with that group.
BTW if you want a good example of what Lib Dems get mad at the BBC over, Abbot looking like a moron is their top story. A former DPM committing a national party to trying to overturn the referendum? Nah, no story there.
While I am rambling on:
It is amusing to me that the Remain side of British politics right now is:
Four nationalist parties that by-and-large have ambitions to break off various bits of the UK (SF, SDLP, SNP, PC), the Lib Dems + Alliance, the Greens, Tony Blair and George Osbourne.
How on earth did this happen?
"I votes Remain, but I trust May to make the best of it."
Abbot is only in the job because she's a reliable socialist. The core group is Corbyn/McDonnell/Thornberry/Abbot. All reliable socialists, all very Militant. Corbyn can endure the PLP but he has absolute control over meaningful policy with that group.
BTW if you want a good example of what Lib Dems get mad at the BBC over, Abbot looking like a moron is their top story. A former DPM committing a national party to trying to overturn the referendum? Nah, no story there.
While I am rambling on:
It is amusing to me that the Remain side of British politics right now is:
Four nationalist parties that by-and-large have ambitions to break off various bits of the UK (SF, SDLP, SNP, PC), the Lib Dems + Alliance, the Greens, Tony Blair and George Osbourne.
How on earth did this happen?
I'm afraid this is a question that'll probably never be answered.
But it does go to show some issues are non-binary and can cross party lines in the most extraordinary of ways.
CyclopsRock
Member
Surely it's more the case that, for the vast majority of people, the EU isn't actually something that occupies a great deal of their political attention? It might matter more now than in the past (and for those to whom its importance have grown, there's reason to think that they're more likely to be in favour of May's position than against it), but generally "the usual suspects" - the economy, leadership, education, the NHS - matter more, no?
QuicheFontaine
Member
Your confusion might arise from viewing everything through a binary Leaver/Remainer lens. There may be some people who voted remain but didn't really believe that strongly in it either way - they're not really "capital-R" Remainers. Likewise, there may be people who voted Remain, but think it's fair that the government is respecting the outcome of the referendum - they've "made their peace" with it. There's nothing contradictory about these people voting Tory now.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Brexit is consistently rated as the most important issue when polled - and those polls are unprompted.
It is regarded as more important than education, the economy, or the NHS.
It is regarded as more important than education, the economy, or the NHS.
1) It's a reference to a line used by Kenneth Clarke
2) It's an election.
I can't wait for this election to be over with (plus the German election) so that all of this grandstanding can end and we can actually start negotiating.
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