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[chromatic9]

Speaking from a german perspective.
I don't think there is a language barrier with most in the EU saying Brexit can't be a success. People outside of britain see Brexit as a decision to purposely hurt yourself. People see the large (mostly economic) ramifications and wonder why anyone would vote for it.

A lot of people also wonder what the goal of Brexit is.
Until now i haven't actually heard one brexiteer tell me what they want to achieve with Brexit other than sovereignty(which is bs as May even said parliament was always sovereign). Is it cutting immigration? Do people think the British economy will develop faster than it is within the singlemarket? Do brexiteers want to negotiate their own trade treaties so bad they want to leave the EU? Do they think local training will be better than it is now because european immigrants don't fill vacancies?

Not judging on anyone that wants to leave but i'd like someone to explain me what exactly they think will be better 10-15 years from now that warrants self harm of leaving because i genuinely can't see it.

Well I was talking about the people at the table and the reply from Mayer about the meeting. Seems to imply Brexit success means Brexit talks a success which it isn't. Junker doesn't have to take affront and just merely say good luck with that. We also had a language barrier problem with article 50 letter although I know some will maintain it's a threat.

About the brexiteers, it's a mixture of some wanting trade deals, some wanting immigration on a requirement basis, not liking what the EU has become and where it's going. The tide changed during the early 90s, a referendum was wanted then when immigration wasn't much, so immigration wasn't the issue for this anti-EU feeling taking shape, people felt we got "sold down the river". The same people who voted in twice during the 70s voted out now. Some also see it as a protest vote, to globalization or how things are going.

How long can UK keep the £? 2020 was stated every EU country needed to be on the euro, I don't see UK holding out much longer. Everyone was quick to point and laugh when the £ dropped but then it was still stronger than the euro at it's lowest so why would UK want that?

Italy want the euro lower than it is now or move to the Lira to attract business. EU said no to the Lira unless you leave like the brits, yet UK was allowed so far to keep the £. Greece has had it suggested to them to leave the euro. It's actually difficult to have a currency suited to 28 countries unless you turn into 28 nation states doing a similar thing, right now its suiting Germany very well. I remember a Europe when each country had their own currency which adjusted to the country. A British style EU would allow Italy the Lira for example.

So while I'm for remaining, the problems are coming. UK has had concessions given which has annoyed the others but UK is holding the project up, the concessions mean UK is at odds with the EU. Brits would be all for a older EU or what David Cameron proposed yet the plans are for deeper integration. It might be best we leave you guys to it and make a start now as I don't see the country giving up the £ and military and the integration Mr Verhofstadt is wanting for better or worse. Perhaps we'll rejoin with our tail between our legs in 20-30 years time and be right onboard with adopting the euro.

 

[Par Score]

I already reached this point a long long time ago. I want the EU to absolutely fuck this country over completely. It won't be a difficult task either. I fucking hate nationalism.

Yep, my one small crumb of comfort in all of this is the hope that we are fucked over so hard that the crumbling of our economy, society and national institutions are all inextricably linked to Brexit.

I want it to be absolutely crystal clear, beyond any hope of spin or deflection, that Brexit is what fucked us.

How much effort, money and time would it take for a new political party to "launch"? The lot we've got really aren't for me (although I'm probably voting LDs in local and general elections).

It'd have to launch out of the hulk of an already extant party I guess, otherwise it'd always be fringe... Maybe, I don't know. Just letting my mind freewheel.

Hey, look - the EU has some indisputable principles. But, y'know what? We've "got" Jaguar Land Rover. So they'll buckle. Sometimes I think May's only interested in winning the election. Having a mandate. The negotiations that follow might surprise me. But, again, letting my bloody mind freewheel...

You should probably take a look at UKIP. They're the most recent, most successful UK party I can think of.

They've been around for ~25 years and were basically a laughing stock for the first 20. They stuck around due to massive financial backing from a very few very rich people, and a succession of "celebrity" leaders.

They struggled against a bunch of other far-right parties to gain traction, but got a lot of luck when the Referendum Party folded after the death of it's multimillionaire founder and another bit of luck when the BNP all but imploded.

For another new party to come along it would need a similarly powerful single issue to hold itself together for a couple of decades, and probably the collapse of one or two of the other big parties. I could see a Europhile "EU Rejoiners" party splintering from the Lib Dems and hoovering up a pro-remain husk of Labour, but in that situation brexiteer-Labour would probably fold into the Tories or UKIP.

 

[EmiPrime]

I was still reeling from the tweet below, wonder what she will come out with next week.

 

[pswii60]

Yep, my one small crumb of comfort in all of this is the hope that we are fucked over so hard that the crumbling of our economy, society and national institutions are all inextricably linked to Brexit.

I want it to be absolutely crystal clear, beyond any hope of spin or deflection, that Brexit is what fucked us.

You're talking like a psychopath. Why would you hope for that regardless of which side you're on?

 

[Huw_Dawson]

My hope is that the public sees sense in the next two years.

My fear is that the EU and UK cannot come to agreement on financial repayments, and we crash out.

My expectation is that we spend two years wrangling about financial repayments, and we get a divorce with no trade deal.

I get the feeling that May is going to end up *extremely* unpopular in Europe. She has surrounded herself with nonsensical promises to pay nothing and get a trade deal. She has reacted exactly as badly as the leakers expected she would, which has now highlighted to EU leaders how hardball they are going to have to play to get May to face facts.

But hey, if you control the message, nothing can harm you. Let Labour implode and ignore the LDs. Five more years of Tory government.

 

[2MF]

My expectation is that we spend two years wrangling about financial repayments, and we get a divorce with no trade deal.

I expect no deal to be reached within the article 50 deadline, and for the UK and EU to have some "extend and pretend" status quo deal for years while negotiations continue.

This is better than no deal at all, but still quite shameful for the UK as it means being under EU control while not being fully in the EU.

 

[Acorn]

I expect no deal to be reached within the article 50 deadline, and for the UK and EU to have some "extend and pretend" status quo deal for years while negotiations continue.

This is better than no deal at all, but still quite shameful for the UK as it means being under EU control while not being fully in the EU.

I'll settle for that, I mean since a govt I even somewhat agree with probably won't happen until I'm bloody 50 at best.

Pisses off brexiteers and I'm still in the EU. I'll take that as a victory.

 

[pswii60]

My hope is that the public sees sense in the next two years.

My fear is that the EU and UK cannot come to agreement on financial repayments, and we crash out.

My expectation is that we spend two years wrangling about financial repayments, and we get a divorce with no trade deal.

I get the feeling that May is going to end up *extremely* unpopular in Europe. She has surrounded herself with nonsensical promises to pay nothing and get a trade deal. She has reacted exactly as badly as the leakers expected she would, which has now highlighted to EU leaders how hardball they are going to have to play to get May to face facts.

But hey, if you control the message, nothing can harm you. Let Labour implode and ignore the LDs. Five more years of Tory government.

It's not in the EU's interest either for there to be no deal. Clearly it would be a much more major blow for the UK (devastating) but let's not pretend it wouldn't have a huge impact on the EU too, both direct and indirect. Which is why I think the deadline will just keep getting extended.. probably the only thing all 28 countries will agree on.

I don't think it's May's plan to be popular in Europe, just as it isn't Juncker's plan to be popular in the UK.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

Ewww social conservatism. Make that socially liberal and fiscally conservative and I might actually grow to like such a party. But then again that's pretty much the Lib Dems.....

I wouldn't support that party, but I know a lot that would, particularly in the westcountry. The entire point would be splitting the Conservative vote.

 

[Jezbollah]

Again if it doesn't lead to the government the hell does it matter?

I have to agree it would be the start of something that would take a long time to get to the stage Labour were at in 2010..

 

[Blueingreen]

I already reached this point a long long time ago. I want the EU to absolutely fuck this country over completely. It won't be a difficult task either. I fucking hate nationalism.

Yep, my one small crumb of comfort in all of this is the hope that we are fucked over so hard that the crumbling of our economy, society and national institutions are all inextricably linked to Brexit.

I want it to be absolutely crystal clear, beyond any hope of spin or deflection, that Brexit is what fucked us.

What the hell is wrong with you people, there are millions of people that voted Remain myself included that at this point just want to get on with Brexit with the best possible scenario, we're not sitting in some dark corner like a bunch of sour grapes hoping for the worst outcome just to add validity to our political agenda, do you have any idea how fucking immature that is ? pathetic

 

[JesseEwiak]

What the hell is wrong with you people, there are millions of people that voted Remain myself included that at this point just want to get on with Brexit with the best possible scenario, we're not sitting in some dark corner like a bunch of sour grapes hoping for the worst outcome just to add validity to our political agenda, do you have any idea how fucking immature that is ? pathetic

The best possible scenario is that Brexit is so terrible that the UK rejoins the EU. Sometimes, you need short term pain for long term betterment.

 

[theaface]

What the hell is wrong with you people, there are millions of people that voted Remain myself included that at this point just want to get on with Brexit with the best possible scenario, we're not sitting in some dark corner like a bunch of sour grapes hoping for the worst outcome just to add validity to our political agenda, do you have any idea how fucking immature that is ? pathetic

Yeah, about that. Doesn't quite seem to be panning out that way so far does it?

 

[Huw_Dawson]

there are millions of people that voted Remain myself included that at this point just want to get on with Brexit with the best possible scenario

"... and the best possible scenario is a strong and stable Brexit done by a strong and stable prime minister. Every vote for May is a vote for..."

Millions of people voted Remain, and now regard this General as the same as any other major election - pin the rosette on the donkey. "As long as *insert favourite party here* wins, I couldn't care less what they actually do."

Brexit is still a stupid idea. It doesn't matter if it is a popular stupid idea, or has a referendum result behind it. The core facts of Brexit do not change. Voting in a government that wants to 'make the best of it' is voting for the Everything Is Fine dog.

 

[bosseye]

The best possible scenario is that Brexit is so terrible that the UK rejoins the EU. Sometimes, you need short term pain for long term betterment.

The irony being that for all we know you might be describing exactly what Brexit provides; short term pain for long term betterment. 'Short' of course might be relative....

Those of you wishing for a crash and burn Brexit, misery and pain all round etc; grow up. Why would you wish that on your own country just to validate your political agenda?

Those of you wanting general disaster to be inextricably linked to Brexit; what are you expecting to be the outcome? That all rabid leavers suddenly have an epiphany and say "Oh God, you were right all along. What have we done!". Looking at the often head in the sand narrative so far about the Brexit process, do you honestly believe that would ever happen? That people would take responsibility for their political choices backfiring, and not just look for a convenient scapegoat? That anyone would actually listen sagely to you saying "Told you so!" and agree that you were right all along? Are you really that desperate to be 'right'? Now that's pathetic.

Grow up. I would suspect that most sensible, rational, sane remain voting people have (no doubt grudgingly) accepted the current Brexit direction and would prefer if it all went as smoothly as possible. I only really come across the Pyrhic victory crowd on GAF and it never fails to make me shake my head.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

What the hell is wrong with you people, there are millions of people that voted Remain myself included that at this point just want to get on with Brexit with the best possible scenario, we're not sitting in some dark corner like a bunch of sour grapes hoping for the worst outcome just to add validity to our political agenda, do you have any idea how fucking immature that is ? pathetic

Why should I 'get on with' something which fucks me over? It's like sawing your leg off and deciding to just finish the job and hoping to deal with the blood pouring out later instead of stopping and having fewer issues.

I view nationalism as the cancer that needs to be cut out. Accepting Brexit would make that the new normal. It's clear that educated progressives aren't welcome in this country anymore in this new political reality. So, I too hope the EU encourages a massive brain drain. It would help me out immensely as well.

The UK is the most unconstructive party in these negotiations with all these 'red lines'. If the government simply caved in on these and watered them down then the chances of a deal acceptable by all would increase. As a government you have a duty to look after the interests of ALL your citizens and everyone living in your country. May isn't doing that. I would never unite behind a government that looks at your concerns and says "Go fuck yourself, we don't care". Negotiations are give and take. May is all take and no give.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

The irony being that for all we know you might be describing exactly what Brexit provides; short term pain for long term betterment. 'Short' of course might be relative....

Those of you wishing for a crash and burn Brexit, misery and pain all round etc; grow up. Why would you wish that on your own country just to validate your political agenda?

Those of you wanting general disaster to be inextricably linked to Brexit; what are you expecting to be the outcome? That all rabid leavers suddenly have an epiphany and say "Oh God, you were right all along. What have we done!". Looking at the often head in the sand narrative so far about the Brexit process, do you honestly believe that would ever happen? That people would take responsibility for their political choices backfiring, and not just look for a convenient scapegoat? That anyone would actually listen sagely to you saying "Told you so!" and agree that you were right all along? Are you really that desperate to be 'right'? Now that's pathetic.

Grow up. I would suspect that most sensible, rational, sane remain voting people have (no doubt grudgingly) accepted the current Brexit direction and would prefer if it all went as smoothly as possible. I only really come across the Pyrhic victory crowd on GAF and it never fails to make me shake my head.

Any sensible remainers will already be making plans to leave the country. Why would you want to stay in a country where the majority of the voting public is racist/bigoted and generally okay with voting for racist rhetoric.

All fine and well to say let's come together, who were the motherfuckers out there using Nazi propaganda to win the referendum?

So no, let's not get on with it. Let's look at why people voted for Brexit, what voting tactics were used, what people felt comfortable endorsing and hopefully after all of that, the sane people will say fuck this miserable country, fuck the racist cunts, I'll move to mainland Europe where mine and my families future is more secure in the short, medium and long term.

 

[Mr. Sam]

Brexit will be like Iraq in that public opinion will be behind it, it'll go south, and a case of collective amnesia will sweep the nation. Brexit? Me? No, I knew there weren't any WMDs from the start, mate.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Those of you wishing for a crash and burn Brexit, misery and pain all round etc; grow up. Why would you wish that on your own country just to validate your political agenda?

I agree; we are all better together and we should work together to have closer ties with a shared investment in a prosperous future. . . . .

 

[jimbobsmells]

I expect no deal to be reached within the article 50 deadline, and for the UK and EU to have some "extend and pretend" status quo deal for years while negotiations continue.

This is better than no deal at all, but still quite shameful for the UK as it means being under EU control while not being fully in the EU.

That would absolutely destroy May's career and her government's chances at the next GE.
Bring it on.
Also, as an aside: nice to see the Mirror have a legitimate reason to have Maddy McCann on the front page for once.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Any sensible remainers will already be making plans to leave the country. Why would you want to stay in a country where the majority of the voting public is racist/bigoted and generally okay with voting for racist rhetoric.

All fine and well to say let's come together, who were the motherfuckers out there using Nazi propaganda to win the referendum?

So no, let's not get on with it. Let's look at why people voted for Brexit, what voting tactics were used, what people felt comfortable endorsing and hopefully after all of that, the sane people will say fuck this miserable country, fuck the racist cunts, I'll move to mainland Europe where mine and my families future is more secure in the short, medium and long term.

I doubt I can leave in 2 years, sadly enough.

 

[Dougald]

Unfortunately if the experience of some of my friends/family is anything to go by, EU employers are very wary of hiring in Brits right now.

They won't outright say it, but they clearly don't want to take the risk of hiring someone who may not be able to stay in the country in two years time

 

[jimbobsmells]

Haha you guys seen the Times headline?
'You can't lead Brexit talks, EU tells May'
May will be barred from attending talks and is being told the only person she can speak to is Barnier.

Also is DD backtracking on the divorce bill? He says that "we will pay what we are legally due to pay". That's a change from 'we're paying nothing!!!'
Edit: ok I misunderstood, he's saying if we want a deal we will pay what is legally due. If we walk away from the table we'll pay nothing.

 

[*Splinter]

It's May's job to "get on with it", not mine. In the meantime I'll continue to support the side I personally believe in.

If people support something just because the majority do, the majority opinion can never change.

If dissenting opinions are no longer welcome in this country... Lol bye

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Let me tell you that I'm so frustrated and angry at the UK public right now. Why aren't more people fighting this? I'm disappointed with this kind of attitude. Right now I'm just working hard to better myself, hope nothing else goes wrong in my life and eventually I will try to move to a more liberal place.

 

[PJV3]

It's May's job to "get on with it", not mine. In the meantime I'll continue to support the side I personally believe in.

If people support something just because the majority do, the majority opinion can never change.

If dissenting opinions are no longer welcome in this country... Lol bye

It would be nice if Brexit turned out to be sunshine and rainbows, but I can't accept a course of action that would be improved by France falling to the National front, it seems like the opposite of being grown up to me.

 

[hodgy100]

I think it's dumb to prevent brexit from going ahead at this point. But we must have e a government that will look after the people and actually argue for a good deal with the EU but in good faith.

May going in there throwing what little weight we have around just debases our country a d once again proves that we are being too big for our boots

 

[Blueingreen]

Any sensible remainers will already be making plans to leave the country. Why would you want to stay in a country where the majority of the voting public is racist/bigoted and generally okay with voting for racist rhetoric.

Um no thanks I actually love this country with friends, family and history here, unfortunately I don't have the privilege of being some upper class champagne swigging Hampstead liberal twat that can afford to move to a villa on the Spanish Coast.
I'm here to stay, and frankly being Black and British hasn't convinced me of the generalisation that all brexitiers are EDL marching social dregs. I know plenty of older generation Black, Asian and Irish who grew up in the 70's when bigotry was as blatant and raw as sign on a pub window that still voted leave, the referendum was so much more complicated than what you keyboard activists thought of it.

I voted remain and I still believe we should Remain, however I also believe a democratic election took place with the highest voter turn out in our nations history, and obviously the Remain camp failed or rather didn't bother to convince anyone outside the M25 or any other student enclave the implications that Voting Leave may have. That said it's done now, am I annoyed? yes absolutely, and do I want to work towards a better future in this country? absolutely, but what I'm not going to do is sit in some corner of the internet like a salty, bitter, whiny bitch and play to the stereotype of a 'remoaner' by wishing the hardship on millions good natured hardworking people in this country just so I can go "ha, ha told you so" fuck that, i'm better than that.

 

[theaface]

I think it's dumb to prevent brexit from going ahead at this point.

Why? Surely the definition of dumb (or at least stubborn) is to press ahead with something you can objectively see is bad for you?

Is it because of 'the will of the people'? There's a myriad of reasons why that doesn't fly, but it does beg the question of our government - does it exist to simply do as the people instruct, or to serve in the peoples' best interests? The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but where they don't align I would've hoped for the latter.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

If dissenting opinions are no longer welcome in this country... Lol bye

You're allowed to have a dissenting opinion, but you are expected to fall in line, because democracy is there to be manipulated and the minority are there to be silenced.

Have reservations about Brexit? The Tories have a tonic for you - making you believe that you're in the wrong and telling you to suck up and deal with it. Not a Tory? Good news - Labour are doing the same thing!

This is why the country is split evenly, even maybe a majority are against Brexit now, and the majority want us in the Single Market. But it does not matter, because it is very easy to convince a voter to fall in line and vote for the rosette - because you've voted Tory all your life Jimmy, and you can't risk Labour getting in...

This country's politicial discourse is increasingly being taken over by arch-nationalists and the hard left. I weep for the future. :/

How much will Brexit cost? The Financial Times this morning has the figure at €100bn.

Wel,, David Davis told Today "we will obey our legal obligations" but whatever the deal, it "has to be by agreement".

If we leave with no deal, there's nothing to pay, he insists. That's an option remember - and Theresa May has said walking away with no deal is better than accepting a bad one.

But that's not what we want, Mr Davis adds: "We want a deal. We think we can get a deal that is beneficial to everybody."

Davis setting up the excuse for crashing out early - "well, this means we don't have to pay €100bn!"

 

[Roberto Larcos]

Um no thanks I actually love this country with friends, family and history here, unfortunately I don't have the privilege of being some upper class champagne swigging Hampstead liberal twat that can afford to move to a villa on the Spanish Coast.

May I ask, is that what you think I am?

I'm emigrating, ideally to Spain. My salary there - if I'm fortunate - will be about 12.000€ p/a for a few years at least. That is with a UK law degree.

I have my own red lines. They have been crossed. For me, there is no other choice. I am not some pompous fuck that can afford the high-life - I'm a working-class son of the westcountry. Before I go, I'll campaign for the Lib Dems as much as time allows. I'll keep voting whichever way I can to steer this country back towards a progressive path. I'll remain a member of the Lib Dems (providing they continue to stay pro-EU).

I fucking loved this country. But I'm appalled with what it's become. Leaving here means leaving my family, my friends, my way of life, a potentially cushy job - even my football team. It's not easy, but it's not a choice.

 

[Number45]

Davis setting up the excuse for crashing out early - "well, this means we don't have to pay €100bn!"

I don't get why they're saying no deal means we don't pay - how does a failure to agree a deal mean that we don't have to fulfil our obligations? I understand they're using it as a bargaining chip - but would it actually stand up to any kind of legal challenge?

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Not really to do with the GE, but just as I was walking to work this morning I realised I have to vote tomorrow! West of England 'Metro Mayor' election. It really feels that it's come out of nowhere what with all this GE business.

I'm thinking of going for an independent candidate (this guy), since he looks like he has decent experience running large organisations, and I don't really know anything about the main party candidates.

Anyone else voting in local elections tomorrow?

 

[PJV3]

I don't get why they're saying no deal means we don't pay - how does a failure to agree a deal mean that we don't have to fulfil our obligations? I understand they're using it as a bargaining chip - but would it actually stand up to any kind of legal challenge?

The EU are talking about using the international court in the Hague if we do a runner.

I don't know if they can force anything that way, I really doubt the UK government is going to use this mental option anyway , it's going to fuck our reputation for a long time, governments have to pay their bills.

 

[EmiPrime]

What the hell is wrong with you people, there are millions of people that voted Remain myself included that at this point just want to get on with Brexit with the best possible scenario, we're not sitting in some dark corner like a bunch of sour grapes hoping for the worst outcome just to add validity to our political agenda, do you have any idea how fucking immature that is ? pathetic

Some of us will be forced to leave the country if EU citizens can't stay, my parents will have to sell their house and load up everything they own onto moving lorries. Some of us will have our lives turned upside down but of course we're just "upper class champagne swigging Hampstead liberal twats".

You think what avaya posts is harsh? That's mild compared to what I will think about this country should the worse come to pass because of British delusion and belligerence during negotiations.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

I don't get why they're saying no deal means we don't pay - how does a failure to agree a deal mean that we don't have to fulfil our obligations? I understand they're using it as a bargaining chip - but would it actually stand up to any kind of legal challenge?

No deal - as in, we cease being a member of the EU, hard border in Ireland, tariffs etc on all trade, WTO deals, is what happens if we crash out. In that case we could just not pay the EU what we legally owe them. Which would destroy our government's credibility even more than it already is being. But hey, we COULD just not pay. It IS an option.

The EU has said that there can be no discussion of a trade deal - what the Tories want - without commitment to paying a bill that the EU can set to be any size they want - but will probably just be money we have already committed. There can also be no commitment to any trade deal if Brexit and the transitional arrangement are not overseen by the ECJ.

Worryingly, this is tied into the rights of EU nationals and expats, and the Irish border.

Until the Tories capitulate on both the ECJ front and the repayments front, that is the reality we are looking at in 2019.

 

[Uzzy]

At the rate these negotiations are going, it's the reality we're looking at in 2017.

 

[RedSparrows]

If you don't like people being rude about demographic X, be rude about demographic Y!

 

[StayDead]

At the rate these negotiations are going, it's the reality we're looking at in 2017.

It's still upsetting to me. v_v

 

[ittoryu]

Um no thanks I actually love this country with friends, family and history here, unfortunately I don't have the privilege of being some upper class champagne swigging Hampstead liberal twat that can afford to move to a villa on the Spanish Coast.

You do realise that people are actually looking for jobs outside of the UK (including myself) and not all "Hampstead twat" right?
You do realise that some of us even bought a fucking house here before this car crash and now are just looking at what to do? Families will be affected by this bullshit of a "leave" and I should be looking at "getting on with it"?
Fuck that. The only thing I am actively looking to "get on with" is to find a job in Berlin and get the hell out of here; I loved London, not anymore.

 

[Wvrs]

Um no thanks I actually love this country with friends, family and history here, unfortunately I don't have the privilege of being some upper class champagne swigging Hampstead liberal twat that can afford to move to a villa on the Spanish Coast.
I'm here to stay, and frankly being Black and British hasn't convinced me of the generalisation that all brexitiers are EDL marching social dregs

You don't need to be upper class to move away. I grew up on a council estate, raised by a single mother of three kids who, when she wasn't unemployed, was on the minimum wage. Not just working class, but childhood poverty until I was 15 and able to get a job to help out. And I'm about to move to the south of France in a few months, after I graduate from University in July. Probably moving to somewhere in Asia the year after. I've made no plans to return to the UK yet. My sister is about to start University and I'm advising her to do her degree in Europe, as with tuition fee hikes (again) and the scrapping of maintenance grant, it's pretty untenable for someone of our socioeconomic background to study here.

I don't know if I ever loved this country, it's where I was born and always will be, but moving away is definitely an easier decision now than it was before.

 

[disco]

The sad thing is with the media how it is - even if the Tory Party makes a total mess of Brexit, they won't be held to account. Part of me wants to say, "well let it all go to shit and then we'll see!" but I just know that we'll never see them held accountable. Even if Brexit is a complete disaster - the papers will deem May, Britannia Thatcher Mk.II. Even if the Europeans plainly reject our ridiculous demands - their replies won't be reported, our stupidity won't be accounted for. No one will learn anything. At this rate I want to become a hermit, though all the Tory farmers live in the countryside + I think I'd loose it if I saw one of their ugly placards come voting season.

EDIT: 'Liberal Hampstead champagne socialists' go on holiday to Tuscany. Dave and Sheila from Warrington retire to Spain - why? Because they're lucky that their paltry state pension + imperialist currency exchange rate (used) to get them a better deal on social care in Spain than in the UK.

**Also, do Liberal Hampstead champagne socialists really exist anymore? It's not like it's the era of Blake, Keats or Waugh. I think it's in your head about 'champagne socialists' being the only ones who can take advantage of the EU - I am currently living in Dusseldorf and pay 400 euro a month for a whole pretty nice flat to myself whilst working in a bar. Try getting that in the UK...

 

[Mr. Sam]

If you're rich, you're a champagne socialist. If you're poor, it's the politics of envy. If you're in between, fuck you, that's what.

 

[Hazzuh]

Tories launched a new poster today:

Not sure they entirely thought it through:

 

[PJV3]

Tories launched a new poster today:



Not sure they entirely thought it through:

The nerve of the tories is breathtaking.

 

[Par Score]

You're talking like a psychopath. Why would you hope for that regardless of which side you're on?

What the hell is wrong with you people, there are millions of people that voted Remain myself included that at this point just want to get on with Brexit with the best possible scenario, we're not sitting in some dark corner like a bunch of sour grapes hoping for the worst outcome just to add validity to our political agenda, do you have any idea how fucking immature that is ? pathetic

Those of you wishing for a crash and burn Brexit, misery and pain all round etc; grow up. Why would you wish that on your own country just to validate your political agenda?

Grow up. I would suspect that most sensible, rational, sane remain voting people have (no doubt grudgingly) accepted the current Brexit direction and would prefer if it all went as smoothly as possible. I only really come across the Pyrhic victory crowd on GAF and it never fails to make me shake my head.

This isn't about "sides", this isn't about "political agendas", this isn't about being "right" and this isn't about "sour grapes". This is about my life.

Your name-calling does nothing but show your own pathetic attitudes to the severity of this situation. This isn't some political game. Brexit is shattering relationships, it is tearing apart families and friends. It is having direct, material, negative impacts on me and mine right now, and will continue to do so in the immediate and not-so-immediate future.

That pain, that suffering, that's not felt by the brexiteers who never wanted anything to do with Europe, nor is it felt by the cozy remainers who want to just "get on with it". Oh, sure, you preferred being in the EU to out of it, but your life wasn't wrapped up in the existence of the EU and the rights it afforded. You had no stakes.


I want Brexit to be such a failure that the UK goes back to the EU on our hands and knees and begs to be let back in, and I want that to happen so quickly and so decisively that my life isn't completely changed by the time we do it.

Will it happen? Probably not. But it's the best case scenario I can think of.

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

No bombs for our army??

What a stupid fucking slogan.

Unless you are courting the "guns and bombs give me a massive hard-on" vote.

 

[KingSnake]

What does Corbyn do with all the bombs he steals from your army?

 

[Dougald]

What does Corbyn do with all the bombs he steals from your army?

He removes the explosives and uses the casings to store his homemade jam

 

[Feorax]

Tories are absolutely fucking themselves so far. Corbyn has been a laughing stock for a while, but christ if Theresa May hasn't had her public image start to go down the toilet at the worst possible time.

I'm still fearful of the most likely outcome, but I'd laugh my tits off if this election backfired, even if it's just a reduction of the Conservative majority.