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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding

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B

Billy_Pilgrim

Member
PJV3 said:
I don't think a Blair will work again, or the trick of attacking the left for brownie points with the centre right.

It's got to be a more inclusive figure like John Smith, this insulting each other but expecting their votes stuff clearly isn't going to work.
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John Smith, the same John Smith who spent the prime years of his life fighting against people like Jeremy Corbyn and momentum? Who rose to prominence because of his scathing attacks on the left? The one that Corbyn and McDonnell tried to have removed?
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Billy_Pilgrim said:
John Smith, the same John Smith who spent the prime years of his life fighting against people like Jeremy Corbyn and momentum?
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But he could reach out to the left on some issues, there has to be some compromise, if not, kick people out or form a new party.

Corbyn isn't only followed by mad Stalanist jew haters, there are lots of regular people in his movement.
 
B

Bits N Pieces

Member
Huw_Dawson said:
He's a Lib Dem. I assure you we are all a bit weird.

We have an event at conference every year where we all get drunk and sing really dumb politics songs.

We are people that do politics for fun. You have to be a bit mad to do all the work and lose.
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Haha, it's funny cause it's basically true. I don't mind the Lib Dems and if I was in England that would probably be the party I vote for but as im in Scotland, its got to be the SNP.

Poor Lib Dems have got Willie fucking Rennie here, that's like playing with a man down at kick off.
 
B

Billy_Pilgrim

Member
PJV3 said:
But he could reach out to the left on some issues, there has to be some compromise, if not, kick people out or form a new party.

Corbyn isn't only followed by mad Stalanist jew haters, there are lots of regular people in his movement.
Click to expand...

On the contrary, his policy was to isolate and remove the trots as much as possible while dragging Labour into the reality of the market economy. By the time he became leader much of that work had already been done. In many ways John Smith dying is the best argument the left have ever made for liking him. Blair and Brown were his project and his legacy.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Billy_Pilgrim said:
On the contrary, his policy was to isolate and remove the trots as much as possible while dragging Labour into the reality of the market economy. By the time he became leader much of that work had already been done. In many ways John Smith dying is the best argument the left have ever made for liking him. Blair and Brown were his project and his legacy.
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Well its not how I remember it at the time as a member of the party, there was a definite shift in tone after he passed away and Tony took over, it's why I quit.

It felt gimmicky as though he was looking for fights just to get positive headlines. Like I have said before, I have no problem with compromise, but there has to be some respect.

To be clear I'm not talking about Trots or militant, I'm talking about the left winger you need to win over if you want to lead the labour party.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
kmag said:
The Tories only got 25% of the first preferences on a small turnout which favoured their key demo (auld cunts). I wouldn't be surprised if the Tory vote was around the 20%-23% mark in the GE. That should pick them up a couple of seats, but they'd need a lot of ducks to fall to get the 9 or 10 some people have been suggesting. Think the Lib Dems will get 3 or 4, Labour maybe 2 or 3.
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I'm not certain there is really a desire to vote Lib Dem in Scotland. Outside of the seat they have. Most people who want something different/to challenge the Tories go Labour/SNP. Still convinced we'll see Labour voters turn into shy Tories and if anything Labour will get wiped out and the Tories will get a few seats. I'm honestly confident Labour may walk away with nothing. They're in a worse state than the 2015 GE and I think Scottish Unionists will huddle around the Conservatives to keep the UK together. They know that if votes are split between Labour and Conservative to oppose the SNP that runs the risk of the SNP winning seats. Just a question now of if enough will sell their souls for the cause and switch from red to blue.

That's not to say Labour won't get a decent amount of Scots voting for them, but enough to get multiple seats? Doubt it. Scotland is going to be far more interesting to watch through the night than the rUK! At least for gambling/betting.

Best tactic for Sturgeon and Co in the coming weeks is to quieten down on indyref2 now that it has passed in Scottish Parliament. Focus on framing it as opposing the Tories and May's ego tripping. There's decent numbers of Scots I believe voted SNP in 2015 on moral grounds when they genuinely thought independence was sunk, who will now sell their morals for desperation to protect the UK and consider quietly voting Conservative (if not Labour ~ Many were probably ex Labour voters). That's not to say Labour aren't a party of morals, but many in Scotland could see in 2015 Labour were ineffectual at challenging the Tories and will have considered rolling the dice on Sturgeon/SNP.

In 2017 Labour are still ineffectual at combating the Tories... But indyref2 in Scotland is back into the mix and if there is any country who would say NO twice to escaping Tory reign and self-determination around a progressive/inclusive/compassionate society it will be Scotland.
 
F

FlammableD

Banned
Maledict said:
Well, thanks to your continued support of him the conservatives will now have a decade of power to really put the boot in.

But don't worry, you get to be morally pure and righteous. That's helps people a lot.
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and your non support of the largest alternative party to the tories will do what exactly?

other than, you know, let you be sure you're pure and righteous and he's wrong.
 
D

Doctor_Thomas

Member
I think, genuinely, this is one of the most important GEs in my lifetime and also one of the most politically powerless I've ever felt.

I have, literally, no say over Westminister, but Northern Ireland also, currently, is without government.

I feel that the Torys have went from being nasty, to be being UKIP and the council elections in England saw the percentages line up as UKIPers realise the Torys are going to do what they want anyway.

We've seen May go from being politically inept, to outright damaging to the UK and push slogans over policy.

Meanwhile, anything Corbyn says is met with disdain by the media, even if the benefit to the majority is there.

It's scary.

I'm also voting NI Greens because I'd rather vote for principle and lose than tactically vote for no reason.

Edit: The BBC have also dedicated 2 shows to UKIP, despite being irrelevent now.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
Polling average update:

Con: 46.5% (+8.7)
Lab: 28.4% (-2.8)
LDem: 10.0% (+1.9)
UKIP: 6.7% (-6.2)
Grn: 2.9% (-0.9)

Chgs w/ GE2015

(Britain Elects)
 
Jezbollah

Jezbollah

Member
Meadows said:
Polling average update:

Con: 46.5% (+8.7)
Lab: 28.4% (-2.8)
LDem: 10.0% (+1.9)
UKIP: 6.7% (-6.2)
Grn: 2.9% (-0.9)

Chgs w/ GE2015

(Britain Elects)
Click to expand...

*reads poll*
*see's UKIP's demise*
giphy.gif
 
phisheep

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
PJV3 said:
It must be entertaining reading this thread if you vote Tory.
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No, it saddens me. It saddens me that Labour has so much forgotten its own voters as to be vanishing into unelectable purity battles, that the LibDems are yet again fighting for scraps from an impossibly low base.

It saddens me most of all that we (as a country, not as a GAF thread) have settled into a polarised politics void of consensus on apparently nearly anything, and this in a country whose proudest achievement was a National Health Service proposed by a Liberal, sanctioned by a Conservative-led government and implemented by a Labour government.

Royal_Phalanx said:
Progressivism in this country is dead and buried anyway
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No it's not. There are, for example, plenty of progressive Conservative voters.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
phisheep said:
No, it saddens me. It saddens me that Labour has so much forgotten its own voters as to be vanishing into unelectable purity battles, that the LibDems are yet again fighting for scraps from an impossibly low base.

It saddens me most of all that we (as a country, not as a GAF thread) have settled into a polarised politics void of consensus on apparently nearly anything, and this in a country whose proudest achievement was a National Health Service proposed by a Liberal, sanctioned by a Conservative-led government and implemented by a Labour government.
Click to expand...

No doubt Labour need to look at themselves, but Labour are between a rock and a hard place at the moment. Hopefully getting past brexit will be a reset of sorts, and leaving the EU does free up more traditional labour policies using the state.
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
I doubt anyone here watched the interview with Farron on ITV, but I'm pretty lukewarm on it. Having Farron once again defend being Christian on national television took up a pretty large chunk of time.

The interviewer was quite aggressive though (in a good way - asking difficult questions and challenging, which is exactly what I want out of a prime-time broadcast interview) so it should be fun watching her go at Corbyn and May.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
Labels such as "progressive" need to be looked at in at least two ways. The individual, and the party elected.

There's no doubt there are many reasonable, likeable, well-rounded and "progressive" Conservative voters. There's a handful in my extended family. A handful :p

Politics, however, isn't about supporting a football team which you do through thick and thin. The party you put in power has a real incremental impact on the whole country, and all the people. Just because the Conservative party you voted for 3 elections ago, heck, even one election ago, might have been something you thought was great, it doesn't mean it's always going to be great. Leaders change, MPs change, the party can shift around/make mistakes/etc.

Calling everyone who votes Tory a frothing at the mouth xenophobe/racist/bigot is taking a page out of the American political book. It's not true. As I said many pages ago I'd rather see the voting numbers at 85%+ and have that include Tory voting, than 50/60%, which is downright disappointing to see. People who vote and get involved with politics can be debated with and minds can and do change. It happened in Scotland in 2015.

Put it this way I refuse to believe 100% of the people who vote Conservative voted Leave. Many will, maybe even most, but there's voters out there who would probably ideologically align better with another party but they go out and vote like a zombie in elections forever chained to their "team". These are people we need to somehow stimulate and challenge. That https://uk.isidewith.com/ site is incredibly basic, but many people would take that test and maybe be "surprised" by the results. I switched from voting Labour to SNP, and as much as bystanders on GAF may read my posts and think SNP till he's dead, nah. I'd happily change again if another party came forward I resonated with better. One of my "dreams" along with independence is a Scottish Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem party that aren't chained to their "big brothers" in London. Right now Scottish Labour is afraid to ally with the SNP cause rUK/London, and Scottish Conservatives basically just peddle Conservatives in England 1:1. Yes, this is the UK, but you can't not look at the 2015 Scottish GE and accept the North and South's people are at odds and ends with politics. At times many in the South just blindly attribute that to "problematic Nationalism", but nah, that's an incredibly childlike way to look at it. If the SNP party was the equivalent of UKIP, fine, but the party and its speakers often have very inclusive, forward-thinking, compassionate and caring messages, and that resonates.

So, potentially "progressive" people in how they behave and act in their personal lives, sure, but arguably voting for a party right now that is very insular, often cares more about the rich/elite and has many ideas and visions for the UK that are steeping us in terrible cycles of depression, angst, hate and othering. The UK is fast hurling itself to one of the least caring nations from the top, who's in charge, seeping right through to the people.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-sound-of-leamington-spa?utm_term=.lpGnylYjxR#.dywXxjomGQ

Oh boy.

Jeremy Corbyn Says He Won't Quit Even If He Loses The General Election

Exclusive: Speaking to BuzzFeed News in Tory-held Leamington Spa, an upbeat Corbyn said he would continue as leader no matter what happens on 8 June.
Click to expand...

Jeremy Corbyn is enjoying his first general election as Labour leader, and he wants to make something very clear: he intends to remain in the job, even if he isn't victorious in next month's vote.

"I was elected leader of this party and I’ll stay leader of this party," Corbyn told BuzzFeed News, taking a few minutes out from campaigning in the Warwickshire town of Leamington Spa.

No matter what happens on 8 June, he said he would be "carrying on". And he insisted that the constant criticism and poor poll ratings were not getting to him. "Monsieur Zen is fine," he said.
Click to expand...
 
I

infi

Member
D4Danger said:
that's what I mean. You can't be like "yeah I think I'm gonna chuck it when I lose". It doesn't exactly inspire people to go vote.
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It could also encourage people who vote Labour but don't like him to vote for another party just to get shot of him.
 
F

ferrasvansen

Member
What a selfish Bastard he is, he will destroy the party rather than accept defeat. If he stays the Labour Party will be split in two, of that I have no doubt.
 
H

Hazzuh

Member
As a result, he said, he urges supporters to try reading nontraditional sources of information.

"I think it’s good that people go to all the alternative sites and check out what they want," he said. "I’ve read The Canary quite a bit, I’ve read yours, I do read a lot of them."
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
If it's a bloodbath he'll
probably
resign. Just "fighting" talk above to try and instil into voters that he's a confident man. He's already lost the minds of so many though, no real way back.

However for anyone else, fighting words, for Corbyn, many will take the words literally and despair. As is a reality with Corbyn, you never quite know. Doesn't matter what he says, an army of people "on his side" and in his political opposition just sitting waiting to claw him apart.

The guy is fucked. At the end of the day, he's just not a leader.

HaloRose said:
Ukip will collapse after this election probably they members will go back to tories!
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They already have. Members of the public interviewed on TV have said as such as well, UKIP were used for Brexit, and now all the voters are going back to the Tories. Says at least something for the party that they attract all the UKIP crew.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
PJV3 said:
Already has I think, it's the EDL can't vote Tory party now.
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Pretty sure it was Britain First who were closely aligned to UKIP.

EDL is a spent force outside of a few marches where the same hardcore supporters attend and maybe drag along their kids/family members/friends.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
D

Dabanton

Member
HaloRose said:
Ukip will collapse after this election probably they members will go back to tories!
Click to expand...

Pretty much.

UKIP voters have gotten exactly what they wanted, so most of them or ones who flirted with UKIP will return home to the Tory party.

Theresa is fulfilling all their dreams.
 
P

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
To every total wankbag that keeps hissing "neoliberal scum", thanks for where we are right now with uncontested Tory rule for 20 years. Well done, you win the prize.

It might be time to just admit you don't 'get' politics and go back to spinning around on the carpet with your head as the compass point. Nobody will think any less of you because we'll all just be very happy that we're able to get on with rebuilding an electable centre-left without 'momentum' slingshotting us into the side of oncoming traffic every other week.
 
E

Empty

Member
though they are getting obliterated in this election think ukip will recover a little over the course of the next parliament. ultimately may is not going to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands and there will be plenty of room to attack whatever compromise she is forced to make on brexit from the right, probably gleefully egged on by the sun and the mail.
 
D

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
Empty said:
though they are getting obliterated in this election think ukip will recover a little over the course of the next parliament. ultimately may is not going to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands and there will be plenty of room to attack whatever compromise she is forced to make on brexit from the right, probably gleefully egged on by the sun and the mail.
Click to expand...

UKIP was little more than a Tory subsidiary. They're a single issue party that can now fuck off.

when the Tories don't reduce immigration they'll just blame Europe or Labour or just get the papers to stop talking about it.
 
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