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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding
- Thread starter Jezbollah
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I'm trying to remember the last politician I heard saying 'If I lose this vote I'll quit.' Nothing comes to mind, to be honest.
The irrevocability of the article 50 notification, i.e. the decision to leave the EU, is an unanswered question at the moment. Politically it'd be awkward to force the UK out of the EU if there was a clear change of heart, via the election of an anti-Brexit party or a new referendum, for instance.
But Labour's current position is to respect the referendum result and seek Brexit. A more constructive, co-operative Brexit, but still, Brexit.
The irrevocability of the article 50 notification, i.e. the decision to leave the EU, is an unanswered question at the moment. Politically it'd be awkward to force the UK out of the EU if there was a clear change of heart, via the election of an anti-Brexit party or a new referendum, for instance.
But Labour's current position is to respect the referendum result and seek Brexit. A more constructive, co-operative Brexit, but still, Brexit.
Nope, has to be agreed by all the EU member states now.
I guess they could (and maybe the EU would) but there's no support for that. If anything the leavers have gone in the other direction and become self styled "hard brexiters" because brexit wasn't dumb enough.
JonathanEx
Member
So Labour's policy isn't to cancel it - but for a different deal. Probably aiming more at single market access, but to still leave.
Generally though, there's a bit of disagreement over exactly how and if they could, but if Britain decided not to go through with it, if done quickly there could be moves to try and stop it. Less fuss in the end for all involved.
Audioboxer
Member
Nope, but they could do a better job of helping a shitty looking future look a little less bleak for many young families.
Going to be excellent to see what the Tories do in the next 8+ years in a lot of places where EU law/regulations aren't in play anymore.
So it looks even more certain now that we'll see a promise to cap energy prices in the Tory manifesto.
I thought this was Marxism a few years ago when Ed Miliband proposed it. Has John McDonnell joined the Tories or something?
I thought this was Marxism a few years ago when Ed Miliband proposed it. Has John McDonnell joined the Tories or something?
What sort of Marxist universe is Theresa May living in? The one that Ed Miliband was living in?
Will we see the same criticism that Ed Miliband faced from certain quarters? Will we heck.
Corbyn's not going to lose his seat at this point so I don't know why people are even entertaining the possibility of him losing his seat which you guys aren't doing.Even in 2005 when the lib dems got like 62 seats they still got beat by corbyn by like 22%. The lib dems are not in the position to take his seat at his point. He will win Islington North with over 55% of the vote on June 8th.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Pivot to the left for those new working class voters. Smart move. And Corbyn should fuck off. His Socialist purity tests and 'Momentum' are ruining this country by allowing unchecked Tory power.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
We do not have a brexit policy.
Huw_Dawson
Member
He has a former Labour PPC standing against him as "Labour For the Common Good". The PPC's manifesto - Corbyn's bloody useless - was published in the Evening Standard tonight. It's probably not going to be a massive splitting of the vote.. but...
It's not a target seat for the Lib Dems. It's not even close. It'd require a massive surge and Corbyn to ABSOLUTELY destroy himself in the eleven million national broadcasts the BBC and ITV are putting on over the next month.
Oh, btw...
🎉🎉🎉ONE MONTH 'TILL ELECTION DAY FOLKS🎉🎉🎉
Even if people hate Corbyn as a leader, would they want him to lose his seat?
Huw_Dawson
Member
Like I said, it's not as if we're seriously targeting it. There's a small number of target seats in London, and even Vauxhall, where we actually could deliver a massive swing thanks to its insane Remain vote and Hoey, is not really on that list.
Getting certain critically important Lib Dems back into parliament - Cable and Hughes especially - is the big goal in London. We also need to hold RP because Olney is a really good egg.
Cable will be critically important for our economic message.
whyamihere
Banned
I... I just...
travisbickle
Member
Theresa May is a better judge of who is deserving and underserving in this fairer society.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
A fairer society for these folks in this case is the other meaning of fair, the white one.
People are just fucking dumb. There's simply no other explanation.
Jezbollah
Member
Didnt Ed propose to freeze energy prices rather than cap price rises? I seem to think that this policy was quickly undone with a sudden fall of wholesale energy a few months after the election that would have seen people pay higher at a frozen price
(may be wrong - its early and I havent had coffee...)
travisbickle
Member
It was the same policy, just different wordage.
"freeze" is more relatable to working-class people who are getting fucked over by their meter turning quicker each month. "cap" is more relatable to middle-class people who feel utility companies are taking advantage of their power.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
No, it's the same policy.
Jezbollah
Member
Randy Lanzarote
Member
If changing providers is a hassle how does he cope with his day-to-day activities? Wiping your arse takes more effort than changing energy providers.
Has anyone checked if he is competent to be in government?
QuicheFontaine
Member
Really? We're blaming "the MSM"?
With his recent comments about "alternative news sources" we could soon be playing a game of "Who said it: Corbyn or Trump?". Can't wait!
With his recent comments about "alternative news sources" we could soon be playing a game of "Who said it: Corbyn or Trump?". Can't wait!
Commander Jameson
Member
Why are they [the media] not taking the Tories to task about their record?
Edit: Apologies. Was talking about the media and their reluctance to go against the Tories.
Edit: Apologies. Was talking about the media and their reluctance to go against the Tories.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Sure you can blame the media, but it also doesn't help that one side is full of incompetent idiots who completely fail at messaging.
So it's not just the 'media (but it'd be foolish to say they aren't a significant part of why May is seen as the fairer of the two)', Labour and Corbyn in particular aren't doing enough to persuade people they'd be better for them and society as a whole.
There's an article on the New Statesman about how people claiming out of work benefits are often in favour of curbing benefits, even as it directly harms them. Why? The author argues that they're doing this to avoid getting lumped in with the sorts of people the media like to portray as 'benefits scroungers' and the like.
When even some of the poorest in society are buying the right wing arguments, it's not hard to see why May could be seen as better for a 'fairer society'
When even some of the poorest in society are buying the right wing arguments, it's not hard to see why May could be seen as better for a 'fairer society'
They are.
That's all he does at PMQ's.
That's all he does at his public appearances.
That's all he does on social media.
But, you know, IRA, ties, Abbot.
May has more supporters than Corbyn. Who would support one candidate and then admit the other is more "fair"? It's almost a leading question.
I really don't think people over think questions like that.
The energy cap thing is interesting... If the Tories start implementing policies that Labour voters like it's going to be even harder to get rid of them. Thousand years of darkness indeed.
I really don't think people over think questions like that.
The energy cap thing is interesting... If the Tories start implementing policies that Labour voters like it's going to be even harder to get rid of them. Thousand years of darkness indeed.
He's been calling for a TV debate with May but she is refusing as she knows she'd lose.
Are you suggesting people aren't heavily influenced by the media they consume? Of course they are. The tabloid media is ridiculously powerful in this country.
shinra-bansho
Member
Yes. Because Jeremy Corbyn has proven himself such a master of debate and messaging.
He's already in Marianas Trench. Why would any opponent with a brain want to give him any oxygen.
He's already in Marianas Trench. Why would any opponent with a brain want to give him any oxygen.
Are you suggesting that it's only Daily Mail readers who want Corbyn to go?
I definitely agree, but I doubt much would change even if their message was stronger.
Corbyn has been labelled as "radical" from the moment he announced he was running to lead the party. The media against Ed was bad enough, but they've taken things a lot further with Corbyn.
He's no saint by any means, but a lot of people are simply too dumb to see beyond what the media tells them.
Absolutely not. I am suggesting people are heavily influenced by the media around them. Also, you are aware there are no mainstream media outlets supporting Corbyn? None of them have anything positive to say about Corbyn, and never have. Even before he was elected leader, the media made it a thing to call him unelectable. So it is not just the daily mail we are talking about.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
If the Tories start implementing policies that Labour voters like, then why would it be a thousand years of darkness?
Wouldn't it be exactly what Labour voters want?
Wrestlemania
Banned
While the headline of capping bills is much the same, the devil will be in the details on this. Nobody should trust the Tories to implement this in a way which doesn't also bring about cuts to funding for low carbon policies.
But they changed their logo to a tree! The Tories wouldn't lie to us!
That depends on how many Labourish policies they implement I guess. I can't see them doing a sudden u turn on the NHS, for example, and an energy price cap is small beans in comparison.
And besides, no matter how far/often the Tories lean left, Labour will always be further left and (presumably) my preferred option.
Audioboxer
Member
The tabloids in this country are disgraceful, and with many continually reading The Daily Mail and others, you don't need to be a psychologist to know the affects of influencing.
Even the BBC, Question Time and others can be accused of occasionally being "London Bubbled" in their approach to things with elitism. That's one of the prevailing arguments in England, the further you go from London the more unhappy the people are with everything being about London (wealth inequality/job prospects/council prospects/rural' NHS struggles/general quality of life).
Simply screaming at the rags and MSM coverage/responses isn't the answer for dragging people away. We need to find other ways of engaging and challenging people. It's a part of a bigger issue, so anyone just blaming the MSM is being lazy. It has to be said though in the world of 24/7 news channels, daily papers, Twitter retweeting and FB friends sharing non-stop bias, echo chambers are everywhere. Confirmation bias is rife too.
Don't worry, with George now in charge of the Evening Standard London will be voting in line with the rest of the country in a couple if years.
Audioboxer
Member
George Osborne
Absolutelydisgusting.jpg
Ironically London only has pockets of issues with rabid Tory voting. However, sure, the greater fear is parts of London even get flipped away from Labour now.
The arguments from people aren't really about London's political leanings, but the wealth inequality remarks I laid out above. Whether true, partly true or not, it's how many voters in areas of the country see it. If you ask me it's more about frustration the Government aren't doing more around the country, but then the irony there is the people then go and vote for the Government that's supposed to be at fault.... The Tories are the true party of elitism. Labour was supposed to be about the people, and no matter what state they are in, being in poorer areas of the country and voting for Tory en masse isn't exactly going to help your interests?
I think you're forgetting the polices are there to gain voters and might never be implemented. The Tories have promised to reduce net migration to tens of thousands three manifestos in a row, nothing happened and I doubt leaving the EU will have much effect, they'll kick the can down the road forever but they'll have the haters vote in the bag.
As for the energy price cap, yeah pigs will fly or they'll implement it starting Dec when the prices are the highest, thanks for nothing. They will not screw over big business.
May is offering nothing but bad, Corbyn is happy on the Brexit train and unelectable.
As for the energy price cap, yeah pigs will fly or they'll implement it starting Dec when the prices are the highest, thanks for nothing. They will not screw over big business.
May is offering nothing but bad, Corbyn is happy on the Brexit train and unelectable.
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