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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding
- Thread starter Jezbollah
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If you're a white, middle class young person, student or some just out of uni the tuition fees thing probably *is* the worse thing that's directly happened to you. You don't care about sure start, hospitals, benefits cuts, etc etc because they are all things happening in principle that won't impact on your day to day life.
Not excusing it, just trying to understand why the tuition fees issue is still such a a huge thing to some people. Because of them it's one of the biggest policy impacts the national government has had in their lifetime.
Yes, I'm sure the County Council will be succesful in abolishing NATO/Royal Family.
I absolutely agree. If you want to be listened to then refusing to vote isn't the way to go about things, end of story.
But I also remember what it was like being a teenager and feeling patronised with the "lazy" argument - I don't think its really fair or helpful to actually addressing the problem
No, sorry I disagree, especially with the idea that Old voters are ignored as a demographic - the idea of chasing the grey vote surely disproves this
If only this was more mainstream in the UK
Huw_Dawson
Member
Kate Hoey has a master of Photoshop on her team.
What's wrong with this picture?
Answer:
What's wrong with this picture?
Answer:
The Lib Dem candidate, George Turner, has been 'shopped out. Or, rather, only his torso. They forgot to remove his legs.
They are counted, but they aren't cared about. There's no difference to the final count between me going into the booth and writing FUCK THE SYSTEM across the paper with a big marker and someone accidentally crossing into a second box because their hand slipped. It gets viewed for about a second by the counting officer who discards it, checks off a spoilt ballot and moves onto the next slip.
Don't spoil your ballot.
Yep, it was my first election and I voted Lib Dems just as I was going into uni. It was defining a betrayal. Of course I recognize people have to 'get over it' but I'll always associate the lib dems with it.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
If Corbyn was anywhere near winning an election none of this would be a problem. As it stands it's not merely a narrative, it's a fait accompli
I have a lot of reservations about the Lib Dems still, but I really hope you guys manage to get rid of her
Its a shame Gisela Stuart quit before getting to see the same happen to her in the GE too
Edit: I would add the same about my MP (Graham Stringer) too, but hes in such a safe seat that there shouldn't be any risk for him
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
Oh I have more problems with the Lib Dems than just tuition fees, that's just easy to point out as an example of them being massive opportunists.
No my problem with them extends to the fact that they are basically ideologically the same as the Tories on the economy.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Hey, the Lib Dem candidate for West of England Metro Mayor said in his compaign literature that he would "resist hard Brexit". Who knows what powers these guys have?
The tories are campaigning on putting a penny on income tax to fund the NHS? Gods Theresa May really has shifted the party leftwards!
Huw_Dawson
Member
Not sure what you mean by this - when we say we'd raise income tax by a penny to put entirely on the NHS, you this is something the Tories would also do - or do you mean basic free market capitalism principles?
I absolutely agree. If you want to be listened to then refusing to vote isn't the way to go about things, end of story.
But I also remember what it was like being a teenager and feeling patronised with the "lazy" argument - I don't think its really fair or helpful to actually addressing the problem
No, sorry I disagree, especially with the idea that Old voters are ignored as a demographic - the idea of chasing the grey vote surely disproves this
If only this was more mainstream in the UK
Sorry I should have been more precise. Absolutely agree the old vote is chased because it votes. My point re the same circumstances was in reference to numbers 1 and 3 on your list, not the middle one. Everyone has to contend with the idea that parties are too similar, or the safe seats make voting pointless. There's nothing unique about that for young people, and yet they are the group that doesn't turn out.
Ravensmash
Member
Only one is referring to his belief that there are injustices in British society, and the other was harping on about an email scandal.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Sweeps to party leadership on wave of enthusiasm from a disillusioned and radical membership despite strong resistance from the party establishment.
Primary comfort zone appears to be campaigning to large rallies of hyper enthused supporters who rail against the mainstream media.
Has an ideologically extreme ex-journalist adviser said to be highly influential and pulling the strings behind the scenes.
On record as being a consumer of internet 'news' sites that have sprung up to cash in on the unquenchable thirst of his supporters for conspiracy theories and fake news that they enthusiastically share on social media.
Promises to tear down the 'rigged system' and rails against media elites.
As mentioned already he was maligned by the mainstream media (yeah the MSM!
and he never stood a chance since then. From the moment he stood for party leader the media mercilessly mocked his style of left politics. When he got closer to winning that contest it was literally day after day non stop humiliation, yet he still won the leadership contest. Ever since it's been a never ending drip feed of anti Corbyn, anti left bashing in the papers especially but Keunsberg and co on the tv too. Politics of the left, the non Blairite kind of actual leftist policies are deemed not worthy, silly, not viable. When people are told that day in day out then it's no surprise Labour have slid and slid as the electorate believe they're a joke. Self fulfilling prophecy, no matter what you think of Corbyn and how he's conducted things.. even if he'd been absolutely on point and not made one error Labour would still be sliding. Moderates who would actually agree with his vision of Labour now feel like the party is unelectable and too compromised to vote for. Why? Mainstream media (yeah that is a catch all term but pretty much the media most people see on a day to day basis, the vast majority of which is trending very much rightward).I'd be fine with this he could actually win like trump
you think corbyn is the same as trump in that he represents the rigged system rather than opposes it?
Id be very happy if corbyn won wouldnt you?
travisbickle
Member
This is a bit of a stretch. Corbyn's been a politician for however many years, there's no comparison.
PJV3
Member
He also seems to have a set of values that he sticks to, Trump is an opportunist on the fiddle.
Maybe not in the same way, but he's been an MP for 34 years now.
It shows my constituency as Lab/LB TBC. Interesting that in the linked spreadsheet it suggests that they're waiting for the data from local elections to update the recommendation but I thought that it was far from guaranteed that local and GE votes follow suit?
The Lib Dems did that all to themselves, really. The young adult vote tends to be more idealistic, and were directly screwed over by the Lib Dems reneging on their pledge. While most can understand the politics of why it was increased, being a coalition and all, it doesn't excuse the act that a promise was broken. The young adult vote just seems to be the only vote that actively punished a party for u-turning on a key stance.
He is a part of the political system yes. you have to play the game to change it after all. I was more alluring to the rigged system of the rich retaining their wealth.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
All facts I'm afraid
Yeah, everyone ultimately gets affected the same and has to deal with the same flaws in the system.
I just don't like the "young people are lazy" justification
Spuck-uk
Banned
What was telling was when the parties were attached to the policies, the responses were much more negative toward Labour policies.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...est-surrey-members-attempt-unseat-jeremy-hunt
SMH at this shit. Labour are a joke at the moment
SMH at this shit. Labour are a joke at the moment
Yes, facts taken utterly out of context to try and sustain a nonsensical argument. By all means criticize Corbyn, but the Trump comparison is ridiculous.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Clause 1, fuck them.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
Wants to ban all Mus--wait
Is a billiona--hold on
Is basically the embodiment of capitali--uh
Hmm
It's almost like you're being massively disingenuous?
If you can come up with something else I'd be all ears, I've been working in a political environment for a long time now and it's the one constant. Nothing seems to work, and eventually you just reach the point where when one single group doesn't participate, despite how much is on the line and how much it affects them, that you have to write them off if you are a political party looking for votes.
Even Obama only saw a minor increase in the youth vote in 2008, and he was the most inspirational, young candidate of our lifetimes running against a wildly unpopular party that had dragged the country into war on a very young person orientated platform. Yet the youth vote only went up from 17% to 18%.
When a candidate running on a campaign tailored to young people, who is themselves far younger and different to every other politician, still doesn't see a big change in young voters - what will?
What's clause 1? (Too vague to Google sorry)
And fuck Labour or fuck the expelled MPs?
Spuck-uk
Banned
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
This is Labour HQ right? Not the leadership?
Huw_Dawson
Member
I mean Corbyn isn't actually Trump in a facemask. There's comparable bits of their own rises to power, though, and they're both railing against the establishment as their rhetorical device.
I like that tactical2017 site. I counted about 210 seats which either tell you to vote Lib Dem or have us as one of the options TBC. And 66 seats list us as the best party to stop the Tories.
Spuck-uk
Banned
A lot of their policies are further left than those of the Labour party.
If it wasn't for some of their truly stupid other policies I'd certainly consider voting for them.
Audioboxer
Member
I absolutely agree. If you want to be listened to then refusing to vote isn't the way to go about things, end of story.
But I also remember what it was like being a teenager and feeling patronised with the "lazy" argument - I don't think its really fair or helpful to actually addressing the problem
No, sorry I disagree, especially with the idea that Old voters are ignored as a demographic - the idea of chasing the grey vote surely disproves this
If only this was more mainstream in the UK
The symptoms can be variations of laziness/apathy, but the cure is very rarely to approach with scolding/belittling and simply calling lazy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that is the point you're making, with which I agree.
As someone studying psychology, it is often inconsequential to an extent to tell someone what they are suffering from/engaged with/doing. What is important is finding ways to handle the symptom or behaviour, and then proceed onto possibly changing it. Not mercilessly beat someone over the head with their diagnoses. Meaning no, it's not very persuasive to just round up the youth and scream at them for being lazy, even if some of them are. That's a challenge for the political parties and leaders, but it can easily be surmounted. Youth will listen and get engaged if you approach them in the right ways.
Too often it does appear like politics is just old people in old parties fighting and arguing with other old people in old parties.
Encouraging tidbit here (but it's for Scotland and 16-17) ~ http://www.syp.org.uk/syp_elections...le_are_engaged_in_politics_now_more_than_ever
For the UK parties ~ http://www.if.org.uk/wp-content/upl...-people-vote-at-the-2015-general-election.pdf
^ What worries the Tories about youth
^ What lets the UK down, as the youth don't show up like the old do, who routinely vastly vote for Tory
Second source
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...election-2015-explained-turnout-10224278.html
More people come out for the GE, but at the very least you can count on those that went out for the locals to be there at the GE. Therefore a springboard for the outcome often starts in the shape of the locals and changes depending on what the people do that join in this time around. You can take a gamble that there is a lot of shy Tories waiting in the wings for the General.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Well that's certainly one of the more bizarre statements I've heard.
Not much a history fan I take it.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Doesn't like Jews
Is actually a millionaire
Clause 1 compels any Labour member to support the Labour party's efforts in putting Labour MPs into westminster. Campaigning directly for another party's candidate is an instant sacking. Literally the first rule in the book.
Theonik
Member
Half the LibDem MPs at the time rejected the rate increase btw.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Well it's not that amazing. Degrees are two a penny these days, and having one is no real indication of intelligence with respect to anything other than the specific field it's in.
Intelligence and "education" were sometimes sneeringly conflated by some trying to push a "Brexit voters are thickos" narrative around July last year though.
I take it I'm antisemitic for disliking Israel as well then?
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Ah, that's a bit "party over country" for my tastes.
Thanks for the explanation though
Spuck-uk
Banned
Lib Dems ran last time on a pro-austerity campaign and budget deficit reduction, which if not identical in practice, bore great similarity to the Tory plans.
Vince Cable is one of the most right wing members of their party.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
You've been talking a fair bit of bollocks in here but that's up there with the worst of it.
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