Spuck-uk
Banned
Also yeah, free market capitalism as an ideal is a Tory ideal.
The more I think about it, the more I realise the Libs are like the US Libertarians, guess the clue should be in the name.
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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding
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Also yeah, free market capitalism as an ideal is a Tory ideal.
The more I think about it, the more I realise the Libs are like the US Libertarians, guess the clue should be in the name.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Won't disagree with you there - our 2015 campaign was pretty weak.
Cable just being labeled "on the right" is unfair, though. He's one of the best voices on the economy in the country - and we need a trusted pro-EU voice in Westminister.
If he's re-elected he'll be replacing a Tory, too.
No, there's a dedicated Libertarian Party in the UK and the old Liberals, both of whom would be better descriptions of that.
Free market capitalism is NOT a Tory ideal. Free market capitalism is what we have in the EU. The Tories want a deregulated, low-tax Singapore-style economy. And as we've seen today on energy price caps, they're not even much fans of keeping internal free markets fair, either.
Spuck-uk
Banned
On the economy, you dingbat. I'm aware of his relatively good opinions on bankers bonuses and the like but:
As business secretary Cable oversaw the privatisation of the Royal Mail in 2013.
"it is entirely wrong for the government to assume the economy should be stimulated by yet more public spending rather than tax cuts"
-Vince Cable
Straight up Libertarian there.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
As mentioned already he was maligned by the mainstream media (yeah the MSM!and he never stood a chance since then. From the moment he stood for party leader the media mercilessly mocked his style of left politics. When he got closer to winning that contest it was literally day after day non stop humiliation, yet he still won the leadership contest. Ever since it's been a never ending drip feed of anti Corbyn, anti left bashing in the papers especially but Keunsberg and co on the tv too. Politics of the left, the non Blairite kind of actual leftist policies are deemed not worthy, silly, not viable. When people are told that day in day out then it's no surprise Labour have slid and slid as the electorate believe they're a joke. Self fulfilling prophecy, no matter what you think of Corbyn and how he's conducted things.. even if he'd been absolutely on point and not made one error Labour would still be sliding. Moderates who would actually agree with his vision of Labour now feel like the party is unelectable and too compromised to vote for. Why? Mainstream media (yeah that is a catch all term but pretty much the media most people see on a day to day basis, the vast majority of which is trending very much rightward).
I don't think it is so easily blamed on the mainstream media as all that.
Corbyn gets under 20% of the vote even among a group of intelligent professionals who are reasonably well-informed and immune to media bias.
That's the Parliamentary Labour party of course.
Spuck-uk
Banned
A OK with selling off government assets, opposing tax cuts for the wealthy, while being FOR individual rights, decriminalization of drugs, gay rights.
Which of the two am I talking about?
BossDarkseid
Member
Maybe we can at least be united in happiness at the news that Kelvin Mackenzie has been fired from The Sun, if only it were into the Sun...
And a perhaps choice use of Alan Pardew gif..
https://twitter.com/CarraGabs/status/861856891571494912
And a perhaps choice use of Alan Pardew gif..
https://twitter.com/CarraGabs/status/861856891571494912
Spuck-uk
Banned
Westminster voting intention:
CON: 47% (+10)
LAB: 30% (-)
LDEM: 7% (-1)
UKIP: 5% (-9)
GRN: 3% (-1)
[URL="https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/861724567152316416]source[/URL]
Bracketed figures are changes from the 2015 election.
In case there was any doubt as to where the huge Tory majority was coming from.
CON: 47% (+10)
LAB: 30% (-)
LDEM: 7% (-1)
UKIP: 5% (-9)
GRN: 3% (-1)
[URL="https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/861724567152316416]source[/URL]
Bracketed figures are changes from the 2015 election.
In case there was any doubt as to where the huge Tory majority was coming from.
Huw_Dawson
Member
We don't oppose tax cuts for the wealthy, I would like to say!
On selling off the Royal Mail - I think that's probably the most stereotypically right wing thing we did in coalition, but again, not really something the party aspires to.
We are indeed for lots of rights, gay sex and lots of drugs.
The lib dems are an economically and socially liberal party. There is a VERY important difference between a social liberal and a libertarian on rights - the latter deems it is OK for society to commit tyranny on those within it.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
No, they're against him because they're massive slugs who are against his politics
For example: Tristram Hunt, the man who crossed a picket line to give a lecture on Marx (which I will never not find hilariously stupid)
Spuck-uk
Banned
"it is entirely wrong for the government to assume the economy should be stimulated by yet more public spending rather than tax cuts"
-Vince Cable
¯\_(ツ
_/¯see also: All of this manifesto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orange_Book:_Reclaiming_Liberalism
Um that's not libertarian. Libertarians would argue the government has no role in stimulating the economy either way (whilst wanting no taxes at all).
Also, I'd argue there's a huge broad swathe of political opinion that thinks we should cut taxes more beyond the far right and libertarians.
So did Labour. The SNP were the only party actively arguing against austerity. Plus Labour were arguing for strong budget cuts in 2010 as well.
Spuck-uk
Banned
Oh, Labour absolutely did, and I was really close to spoiling my ballot over that complete clusterfuck of a campaign. Certainly wasn't alone, it's off the back of that that Corbyn got voted in as leader.
I've said it before, but I'm not a diehard Labour supporter, I'll vote with who has the policies and willingness to do what's right and necessary for this shambles of a country.
Huw_Dawson
Member
"it is entirely wrong for the government to assume the economy should be stimulated by yet more public spending rather than tax cuts"
-Vince Cable
¯\_(ツ
The source of your quote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7696733.stm
That's not terribly extreme a position, honestly. Tax cuts do, indeed, boost the economy when used well. The Tories take that to somewhat corrupt extremes, but it's one tool in a bag of them.
I'm not arguing that Cable is a leftist, but I will at least provide context.
In government, we of course got tax cuts for low-paid people through.
Spuck-uk
Banned
For the few, not the many, unless you're going to argue about 'trickle down economics'.
Only pre-arranged journalists get questions at May events. Those chosen asked by May aide to state Qs in advance
One reporter told me May aides made clear if he didn't state his question in advance then he wouldn't get a question
I was told by May aide I wasn't on list to ask May a question, & there was no point in putting my hand up to ask one
What shocks me is reporters collaborate with May press team by agreeing to reveal their questions to them in advance
One reporter told me May aides made clear if he didn't state his question in advance then he wouldn't get a question
I was told by May aide I wasn't on list to ask May a question, & there was no point in putting my hand up to ask one
What shocks me is reporters collaborate with May press team by agreeing to reveal their questions to them in advance
Huw_Dawson
Member
How many people were raised out of income tax all together in the coalition years?
QuicheFontaine
Member
Increases in the tax-free threshold put more money directly in the pockets of the lowest earners.
Edit:
Unless you're not counting that as a tax "cut"?
This needs to be heavily reported.
They're censoring their own messups. Theresa May is not perfect and they're using the Media to hide it.
PJV3
Member
Spuck-uk
Banned
How many of them are on 0 hour contracts?
Nevertheless, they were part of a coalition government which increased tuition fees. It's not about individual MPs, is about the party itself u-turning on the matter, which was a key issue for student voters. Its understandable why it happened politically, but it means that it should've never been a strong promise to begin with - if it was never going to be a "red line" in coalition agreements. What's disappointing is that only the Lib Dems have really been punished politically for such u-turns, it'd lead to better accountability if it was a trend across the political spectrum.
Huw_Dawson
Member
👏Ma👏naged 👏De👏mo👏cra👏cy
I decided to find the figure for people raised out of income tax via a Lib Dem policy and found:
Zero-hour contracts are a different matter not to do with tax, as you know, and they're pretty nasty things. I hope to see policy tackling them in our manifesto.
Spuck-uk
Banned
I mean, she's certainly angling for the role. Most dictators are at least competent at giving speeches though.
Don't "sensible" Tory voters start to get a bit worried when they realise their parties policies are very attractive to former UKIP supporters?
Need to keep up the illusion of "Theresa May's Team". Don't want the public finding out she's an incompetent leader with no answers. Corbyn is the only incompetent one, remember.
No because it means your team wins more, and that's all that matters. Plus even Tory remainets were soft remainers and are okay with leaving now the vote has happened.
Spuck-uk
Banned
Well, that was how Brexit came about, the 'moderate' pro-Europe side of the Tories thinking they were throwing a easy referendum* to appease the harder right, nationalist wing of the party that was losing voters to UKIP.
Fucking whoops.
*probably emboldened that they so easily won the AV referendum a few years before. Also, yes, Labour were to blame there too.
PJV3
Member
This election is going to play havoc with her control-freak authoritarian personality.
100+ seat majority, all opposition crushed and obedient journalists doing as told, it's going to end badly like Blair and Thatcher.
Spuck-uk
Banned
Fuck, we're going to war with someone.
Ok this Trump comparison is a little more concerning than the Corbyn one. Wonder what happens if they ask a different question to the one they pre-supplied?
(Hyperlinked text is quite hard to read btw)
"Mr. Burns, your campaign seems to have the momentum of a runaway freight train. Why are you so popular?"
Instead of selling Royal Mail shares to the public, they sold them to huge financial institutions, including those involved in valuing the shares. Big surprise, turns out the shares were massively undervalued but it was ok because Cable had a "gentleman's agreement" that the banks who bought them wouldn't liquidate those shares for instant profit. But they did. And Cable made excuse after excuse for the whole debacle.
It was pure sleaze.
I wasn't sticking my neck out far enough to offer any actual solutions to the problem
, just that the diagnosis that youth are just too lazy to vote is wrongIt might be apathy for politics, it might also be disenfranchisement
To use another example, youth turnout was more or less consistent with 25-to-39-year-olds and those aged between 40 and 54 in the Brexit referendum, so they can be engaged just as much as other groups, even if it is harder than it is for pensioners
Basically yeah.
I think we all (including Maledict too) basically agree about the problem, just maybe differ at how we look at it is all
Poor people
WhateverItTakes
Banned
Fucks sake, our media shouldn't be at the whims of the government. Yet nothing will be done.
Yep.
Should be front page news in every paper
PJV3
Member
Lol
George Osborne will get right on it
That's handling on a next level, woof.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
Tory aides are keeping hold of the mic so they can pull away if they start doing something other than agreed
https://twitter.com/owenjbennett/status/859694183627579392
There was another tweet but I can't find it now
PJV3
Member
There's Laura smiling away, it's weird when I actually prefer the former chairman of the Oxford uni Tories compared to her in that job.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Something to chew over btw is Yougov's latest survey.
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne...mrfbguqp4r/SundayTimesResults_170505_VI_W.pdf
96% of Tory voters are either definitely voting Tory, or probably will vote for them and see changing their mind as unlikely.
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne...mrfbguqp4r/SundayTimesResults_170505_VI_W.pdf
96% of Tory voters are either definitely voting Tory, or probably will vote for them and see changing their mind as unlikely.
Audioboxer
Member
Bloody hell. This is not a part of the UK I want to belong to. Corbyn isn't even this incompetent/sinister, but no worries, public perception and the press will make it seem like May is stable and strong and it's old Jez whos 10x worse than her.
At this point you could roll out Farage as the new Tory leader and the British public would get in line.
edit: Apparently old Corbs "did it right"
Royal_Phalanx
Member
I've lost a ton of respect for this country over the past year or so. What have we become, a (much less bad) version of Erdogan's Turkey without the religion but with the nationalism and authoritarianism?
Yep. Tory voters are locked in right now. That should give people pause - unless something weird happens, the polling numbers aren't going to shift much,
Royal_Phalanx
Member
'My team, right or wrong' is likely what's going on here. Tory remain voters never truly cared much about remaining anyway even if they do still feel leaving is a mistake.
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