Support NeoGAF

[YN12]

Hmm, wonder where I've heard that before....cough drug classification laws cough..

Oh absolutely! On a side note, once I also attended a lecture by David Nutt, the guy that used to advice the UK goverment about drug policies, and was eventually sacked because he said that alchool causes more social damage than ecstasy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt

(man is nuts (!) but brilliant).

 

[Doc_Drop]

Oh absolutely! On a side note, once I also attended a lecture by David Nutt, the guy that used to advice the UK goverment about drug policies, and was eventually sacked because he said that alchool causes more social damage than ecstasy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt

(man is nuts (!) but brilliant).

Yeh that whole situation enraged me. If a government is just going to flat out ignore expert advice that could potentially change lives just be honest about it and be upfront about why. If it was about the dangers of the drugs then alcohol and tobacco would be illegal immediately

 

[Mandius]

Imagine going to jail for pirating season 5 of Game of Thrones.

 

[Mindwipe]

A few years ago I attended a lecture by this guy: http://www.theguardian.com/law/2011/may/18/hargreaves-report-recommends-overhaul-of-copyright-laws

Essentially, he was asked by the UK goverment to write a report on media piracy, so that the goverment could make up its mind about what the best course of action is about media piracy.

Needless to say, his report, and many others before, were all ignored. Because regardless of the factual evidence, there is much lobbying by media corporations that influences decisions.

No it wasn't. Many of Hargreaves recommendations were implemented, and I spent a lot of time personally working on it.

Hargreaves recommended a parody exemption was introduced in UK law. It was. He recommended changes to fair dealing around quotation. They were. He recommended the setting up of a copyright hub for facilitating transactions. It was set up, and funded by the government for several years (it's not terribly successful, but the recommendation was implemented). He wrote about the need for more copyright identifiers, and the government put a lot of pressure on major rights holders to implement them. Several changes to orphan works provisions and patents court licensing were made too.

The only major change that was not implemented was the format shifting provision, and the government tried to make that change too so it wasn't ignored, they just messed up the implementation by trying to be cheap.

There's even a wiki page about this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hargr...al_Property_and_Growth#Findings_of_the_review

That's not what I'm saying at all and I understand that a lot of people do it because it's free and easy. It has been ingrained into people since the days of Napster that music, television, and film has essentially been reduced in value - in terms of ownership - for a lot of people. The problem with Netflix and Amazon is that their selection is terrible bar a handful of films and TV.

In the UK currently Netflix is dogshite. However, if you want to get a torrent going you need to go via VPNs etc or stream in low quality. If Netflix had a great selection of films I would feel the need to circumvent the system less.

When I was able to use VPNs to watch stuff that wasn't available in UK (loads of anime and documentaries and films are available via Canadian/US/German Netflix) and it was easy for me to get to that content I didn't pirate nearly as much.

You were pirating it, just via different means.Netflix and Amazon in the UK offer a huge amount of content for the price by any sane metric.

I think the cycle of TV/theatrical release to DVD/streaming service needs to be much quicker also. Prices need to come down to watch films in theatres is also a part of this.

Edit - Also Sky TV is silly expensive to get, as is Virgin Media. For Sky I'd need a dish or via the online service pay 3-4 separate fees to get TV, Film, and Sports. Virgin dices up the channels so you have to combine your packages to up to like £100 or something per month.

SkyTV is a grand total of £6.99 per month, including their movie package via NowTV. The idea that piracy is necessary for anything other than because people don't want to pay for things is nonsense in the UK.

 

[Spaghetti]

I guess the massive increase in ISA allowance isn't bad, but it's starting to approach tax dodging levels. Average people can't save £15k per year.

Honestly, that policy is there for the wealthy middle classes and upwards only. I was earning £400+ a week, which is good money, but my yearly gross would have only been £18,000+. There's no fucking way I could have afforded to save £15k a year.

 

[StrongArmSteady]

^ what? Link me to the £7 deal its cheaper than netflix!

 

[Doc_Drop]

You were pirating it, just via different means.Netflix and Amazon in the UK offer a huge amount of content for the price by any sane metric.

For me I felt that whenever I searched for a film I wanted to watch it wasn't available unfortunately. I feel the selection comes down to distribution companies saying "well if you want that great film here's 30 mediocre ones" - at least to me.

SkyTV is a grand total of £6.99 per month, including their movie package via NowTV. The idea that piracy is necessary for anything other than because people don't want to pay for things is nonsense in the UK.

When I had NowTV I had the £6.99 subscription which got me the movie channels, of which there was a limited selection of films. I had to get a separate subscription for Sports, and another for TV. If this has changed I will re-evaluate the deal and decide whether I want to do that. The other problem I found was that due to me having a reasonably out of date OS on my Mac laptop and therefore an outdated version of Safari I was not able to even view the content on that laptop, only on my PC. The prices I said above is what my parents pay for their HD box and the channels they want - at no point (as far as I am aware) have they been able to get just the movie channels, sports channels, and Sky's own channels (for GoT and the likes)

Edit: Just checked NowTV and it is exactly the same - separated content for a larger cumulative price. SkyTV is unavailable to me because of my area, lack of dish, and lack of phone line

 

[Diablos]

I'm just waiting for the push for these kind of laws to come back to the US.

 

[Osahi]

Be careful, you wouldn't want to cut yourself on all that edge there.

It's hard to tell because it's pretty vague the way they present it, but it seems like the maximum 10 years is more about people who are distributors of pirated content, rather than the average joe just downloading them.

Downloading a pirated film/song/game should honestly be a lesser crime than petty theft. Still a crime obviously.

But distributors, I can buy they want harsher sentences. 10 years seems way overboard though.

Yeah, going for really harsh punishments has an opposite effect, as it only confirms to some how unfair copyright laws are and sours the public opinion about them. I'm all for severe punishments for distributors who profit from pirated content, but downloaders should not be liable to prison time or very high fines. In the past it was sometimes done 'to set an example', and it just doesn't work.

I'm all for small fines for illigal downloaders though. It should be on the same level of small traffic penalties. As someone who works in the creative business, and has part of his income come from copyright, I know how important copyright laws are and how dangerous the idea artistic works are 'information' that should be distributed free is. (If I didn't get my copyright income last year when I was in between projects, it would have been harder to make ends meet...)

 

[Dougald]

Honestly, that policy is there for the wealthy middle classes and upwards only. I was earning £400+ a week, which is good money, but my yearly gross would have only been £18,000+. There's no fucking way I could have afforded to save £15k a year.

IIRC its going up to £20k in 2017. That's so far outside the realm of the average person its unbelievable. ISAs are great and I'm all for encouraging people to save money, but there is a point where it becomes ridiculous

In a few years there are going to be some massive stock portfolios that are completely free of capital gains

 

[Joni]

Piracy is a moral act. It is everyone's responsibility to combat the oppressive and broken media conglomerates by paying only as much as you want to pay. Welcome to the free market, companies who charge 30 dollars for a blu-ray, stores who keep it at 30 dollars years after the fact, game companies who deign to give us 5 hours worth of entertainment for 60 bucks, with most of it broken and jilted and imbalanced!

Prison for piracy of an object with next to no scarcity. Riiiight.

There is also the option of not buying some thing. It is a free market, so nobody is forcing you.

 

[Harmen]

Ridiculous. It would be amazing if hackers expose politicians downloading the latest blockbuster or music album. You might as well make your entire country a prison if this is a 10 year offense.

I'd rather see them making that tax evasion bullshit a ten year offense, as that actually significantly harms global economy and wellfare.

Piracy is a moral act. It is everyone's responsibility to combat the oppressive and broken media conglomerates by paying only as much as you want to pay. Welcome to the free market, companies who charge 30 dollars for a blu-ray, stores who keep it at 30 dollars years after the fact, game companies who deign to give us 5 hours worth of entertainment for 60 bucks, with most of it broken and jilted and imbalanced!

Prison for piracy of an object with next to no scarcity. Riiiight.

It is simple, if you don't think it is worth it, you do not buy it. And you do not steal it either. In addition to that, chances are that within a year the product reaches a value you think it is worth.

 

[Beefy]

SkyTV is a grand total of £6.99 per month, including their movie package via NowTV. The idea that piracy is necessary for anything other than because people don't want to pay for things is nonsense in the UK.

Base model with only a few channels.... If you want Sky Sports etc the price goes up a hell of a lot. There is a reason why sports streams are growing. A ticket for a Prem league match is disgustingly high. Then you have hardly any matches shown on Sky compared to other countries and the cost. I would say piracy is necessary for football in the UK.

 

[YN12]

No it wasn't. Many of Hargreaves recommendations were implemented, and I spent a lot of time personally working on it.

Hargreaves recommended a parody exemption was introduced in UK law. It was. He recommended changes to fair dealing around quotation. They were. He recommended the setting up of a copyright hub for facilitating transactions. It was set up, and funded by the government for several years (it's not terribly successful, but the recommendation was implemented). He wrote about the need for more copyright identifiers, and the government put a lot of pressure on major rights holders to implement them. Several changes to orphan works provisions and patents court licensing were made too.

The only major change that was not implemented was the format shifting provision, and the government tried to make that change too so it wasn't ignored, they just messed up the implementation by trying to be cheap.

There's even a wiki page about this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hargr...al_Property_and_Growth#Findings_of_the_review



You were pirating it, just via different means.Netflix and Amazon in the UK offer a huge amount of content for the price by any sane metric.

I think the cycle of TV/theatrical release to DVD/streaming service needs to be much quicker also. Prices need to come down to watch films in theatres is also a part of this.



SkyTV is a grand total of £6.99 per month, including their movie package via NowTV. The idea that piracy is necessary for anything other than because people don't want to pay for things is nonsense in the UK.

Thanks for the clarification. At the time (around 2012) he was saying that nothing much came out his white paper. I guess he wasnt confident that his advice would be followed, as his report wasnt the first to say what he said, but nothing much changed in the past.

How do you see these recent news?

 

[travisbickle]

There is also the option of not buying some thing. It is a free market, so nobody is forcing you.

The free market only applies to products which can become scarce. Obviously, for digital products a false scarcity is created and maintained with draconian laws against re-distribution. Digital information is, for all intents and purposes, free, and ip owners are trying everything to stop people distributing it.

 

[Audioboxer]

Base model with only a few channels.... If you want Sky Sports etc the price goes up a hell of a lot. There is a reason why sports streams are growing. A ticket for a Prem league match is disgustingly high. Then you have hardly any matches shown on Sky compared to other countrie and the cost. I would say piracy is necessary for football in the UK.

Well, no. It's a luxury. You still get highlights on MOTD.

However football in general is a mess. Split across multiple sports services, and some not even available in your country just to watch the team you support.

Really, we need a service paying directly to the club we like for viewing of ALL live games. One can dream.

 

[Beefy]

Well, no. It's a luxury. You still get highlights on MOTD.

However football in general is a mess. Split across multiple sports services, and some not even available in your country just to watch the team you support.

Really, we need a service paying directly to the club we like for viewing of ALL live games. One can dream.

It's a luxury the oridinary person saw as a cheap thing to do at the weekend (in the 80's/90's). Who has been priced out of going due to crazy ticket prices and hardly any games on tv is what I am getting at. For a supporter or football fan on low income they have no chance. It's why football streaming legal and not is growing.

 

[Audioboxer]

It's a luxury the oridinary person has been priced out of is what I am getting at. For a supporter or football fan on low income they have no chance. It's why football streaming legal and not is growing.

That is true. It used to be the working persons sport. Now it's just all about ludicrous amounts of money.

 

[Joni]

The free market only applies to products which can become scarce. Obviously, for digital products a false scarcity is created and maintained with draconian laws against re-distribution. Digital information is, for all intents and purposes, free, and ip owners are trying everything to stop people distributing it.

The same still applies. Someone wants to be paid for making it, so they set it at a price. If you don't want to pay the price, you can wait to buy the product or you can not buy it. You want to be paid for your work as well.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

End of the day, pirating isn't inherently hurting the Indy, the small time producers of content as they need other ways to engage their customers anyway. It's hurting the large companies who distribute globally. I'm not pirating electronic musicians or punk bands, but something from the powerhouses like Disney and Warner Brothers. And I will always be of the opinion that if I truly like something I will buy it, why wouldn't I?

I know it sucks, I am UK based as well. I use UK Netflix but half of the stuff I want to watch isn't on there and I have to wait hoping that one Freeview channel will pick the show up. I usually end up getting the Blu-Ray.

It REALLY pisses me off that there is a 3-6 month gap between theatrical release to Blu-Ray or streaming just to appease the cinemas that carry the films. I can't afford £20 for two tickets then £10 in bus fares then whatever extortionate rate they charge for popcorn or watered down drinks and then I am stuck in a really uncomfy chair constantly fidgeting while some idiot kicks the back of my seat or some clown eating as loudly as they can.

My TV isn't the size of a football pitch or whatever but I'd gladly pay £20-30 to watch a film day and date in the comfort of my own home.

Pirating is brilliant for indies to get their content out there, I am guilty of pirating myself in the past but if the content was worth it I've ALWAYS bought it, indie and AAA studio alike.

I'm not justifying piracy but I hate when content producers blame piracy for lackluster sales. Jurassic World made $1.6Bn in spite of piracy, Star Wars over $2Bn. As you said if something is worth it people will pay for it.

I just don't know how they are going to combat piracy and also line their own pockets, the two are incompatible.

 

[spekkeh]

Seems like a good move to prepare the citizenry for TTIP. They'll be begging the UK government to ratify the treaty so they can get extradited to the US and only face nine years imprisonment and just three times waterboarding.

 

[Thorgal]

even IF this would become a thing i don't see anyone getting arrested .

I mean even right now police can technically knock on someones door because they are downloading music on the web without paying and give them a fine yes, however most police don't even bother with that as they have more important work to do like that lunatic who just went flat pedal through red on an intersection .

 

[NekoFever]

Imagine going to jail for pirating season 5 of Game of Thrones.

Protective custody

 

[travisbickle]

The same still applies. Someone wants to be paid for making it, so they set it at a price. If you don't want to pay the price, you can wait to buy the product or you can not buy it. You want to be paid for your work as well.

Publishers pay a license to replicate the content and distribute it. You're agreeing with the idea that it's moral to pay for the product, for the original content makers, but it goes against the principles of the free market, as the product can be infinitely replicated and because we all own the machinery to distribute it and as mentioned, distribute it practically free.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Imagine going to jail for pirating season 5 of Game of Thrones.

I'd have to seriosuly think if this the hill I want to die on.

 

[Joni]

Publishers pay a license to replicate the content and distribute it. You're agreeing with the idea that it's moral to pay for the product, for the original content makers, but it goes against the principles of the free market, as the product can be infinitely replicated and because we all own the machinery to distribute it and as mentioned, distribute it practically free.

The product can't be constructed without any payments. The supply of new product would dry up. The supply chain starts at the beginning of the chain.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Why is the UK so fucked up right now? How can Cameron survive all this bullshit?

 

[RetroDLC]

Why is the UK so fucked up right now? How can Cameron survive all this bullshit?

Some people just don't care about the light of their legacy.

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

Why is the UK so fucked up right now? How can Cameron survive all this bullshit?

He doesn't give a shit. None of them do. As long as they can make out like bandits they'll do what the hell they want for 4 years laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Vashetti]

It REALLY pisses me off that there is a 3-6 month gap between theatrical release to Blu-Ray or streaming just to appease the cinemas that carry the films. I can't afford £20 for two tickets then £10 in bus fares then whatever extortionate rate they charge for popcorn or watered down drinks and then I am stuck in a really uncomfy chair constantly fidgeting while some idiot kicks the back of my seat or some clown eating as loudly as they can.

Which cinemas are you talking about? If it's Odeon or Cineworld, I understand.

But Vue is cheap as fuck, and their seats are awesome. I went with my parents just after Christmas to see SW: The Force Awakens in 3D. For three adult 3D tickets it was £5.60 each. Super cheap.

 

[Dougald]

But Vue is cheap as fuck, and their seats are awesome. I went with my parents just after Christmas to see SW: The Force Awakens in 3D. For three adult 3D tickets it was £5.60 each. Super cheap.

Not round here, I've never got out of Vue this decade with my wife without laying down at least £25, plus another £5 to park

Showcase are the cheapest, still ends up around £18 for two

 

[Vashetti]

Not round here, I've never got out of Vue this decade with my wife without laying down at least £25, plus another £5 to park

Showcase are the cheapest, still ends up around £18 for two

Oh wow, must just be the Cardiff branch then. It's awesome.

Plus you get a flat parking price of £2.50 in the NCP (car park) after 6pm

 

[moggio]

SkyTV is a grand total of £6.99 per month, including their movie package via NowTV. The idea that piracy is necessary for anything other than because people don't want to pay for things is nonsense in the UK.

Unless Rupert Murdoch lets me shit on his face, I'm not paying for Sky however much it costs.

 

[low-G]

If you've ever pirated more than 8 files in your life it is in your own self interest to kill, kill, kill these lawmakers until they're all dead and you can finally be free.

 

[Ashes]

Who cares about cost or ease of access? What other kind of thievery do we jail people this amount of time for? Isn't this almost double most non-violent theft?

 

[Dougald]

Oh wow, must just be the Cardiff branch then. It's awesome.

Plus you get a flat parking price of £2.50 in the NCP (car park) after 6pm

It's the tax for living in South East England (that and having to live in South East England)

 

[Ad0ve]

prison for non violent crimes LMFAO!!!11

 

[V1LÆM]

i could understand if you were the one uploading and sharing all that pirated content but i think it's way too harsh for someone who is downloading.

 

[Beefy]

Which cinemas are you talking about? If it's Odeon or Cineworld, I understand.

But Vue is cheap as fuck, and their seats are awesome. I went with my parents just after Christmas to see SW: The Force Awakens in 3D. For three adult 3D tickets it was £5.60 each. Super cheap.

Isn't a Vue where I live. It's either Odean £20 3d Imax or Cineworld £18.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Which cinemas are you talking about? If it's Odeon or Cineworld, I understand.

But Vue is cheap as fuck, and their seats are awesome. I went with my parents just after Christmas to see SW: The Force Awakens in 3D. For three adult 3D tickets it was £5.60 each. Super cheap.

Vue Blackburn singles are £10.39 for 3D regular seating, £11.89 for VIP.

 

[BajiBoxer]

It seems like a pretty terrible deterrent considering there are billions of people who don't live in the U.K. and online piracy isn't the least bit concerned with national borders.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

The concessions at cinemas are the worst. I bought my brother a small nachos for £4.50 it was literally 8 tortilla chips and some tepid cheese sauce.

 

[Spaghetti]

IIRC its going up to £20k in 2017. That's so far outside the realm of the average person its unbelievable. ISAs are great and I'm all for encouraging people to save money, but there is a point where it becomes ridiculous

In a few years there are going to be some massive stock portfolios that are completely free of capital gains

Christ. Tories definitely looking after their own there.

 

[shaowebb]

I'm all for cracking down on piracy but wouldn't this put a huge economic burden on the taxpayers? It just doesn't seem like the punishment fits the crime here...

 

[NH Apache]

“As a result we are now proposing changes that include increasing the maximum sentence, but at the same time addressing concerns about the scope of the offense,” NH Apache says.

This is my quote.

Spoiler

JK I PIRATED IT

 

[Plum]

Why is the UK so fucked up right now? How can Cameron survive all this bullshit?

This is nearly the end of Year 1 of 5. They barely have any opposition. The Tories can do whatever the hell they want.

 

[Special C]

This pretty excessive, but piracy is an extremely easy crime to avoid so I'm not too miffed about it.

 

[norm9]

I'd be fine with 10 years per pirated item.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

Nvm.