It almost like there was a major rightward shift at some point, isn't it?
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UK Labour Leadership Crisis: Corbyn retained as leader by strong margin
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It almost like there was a major rightward shift at some point, isn't it?
CyclopsRock
Member
Anyway, it's not fair to characterise my position as dictating "what the poor are allowed to do" - we're talking about how to spend their time at school. There's a finite resource of school time, and an hour spent on Subject A cannot also be spent on Subject B. They can go be carpenters or Keith Vaz's painters/prostitutes or actors or rugby players or chicken farmers for all I care - but what do we sacrifice in the school time table to teach them all five of those things in a 8.30 -> 3.30 school day? And if we decide that, hey, maybe biology is more important than Chicken Farming, is that me saying the poor aren't allowed to be chicken farmers?
My point was that acting is such a minute part of the workforce, so how about we concentrate on the bits that actually have a realistic chance of success, which also happen to be well paid and accessible to working class kids?
My point was that acting is such a minute part of the workforce, so how about we concentrate on the bits that actually have a realistic chance of success, which also happen to be well paid and accessible to working class kids?
And nothing about the massive funding shortfall at the NHS. Unbelievable.
That is to say May isn't doing as well as people as saying, her answer to the Brexit question was just nothing.
Corbyn asks proper questions about one of the most pressing issues of our time, May responds with cheap jibes. At least that'll play well with the peanut gallery.
JonathanEx
Member
At what point does she get caught out by the fact her long waffly sentences actually mean and contain fucking nothing.
Then Corbyn goes on to ask another scripted question as if May hasn't spoken. It's terrible debating, he offers absolutely nothing, no reaction, no re-framing of questions to follow up when she does actually offer waffle, you'd be better just loading the text of his questions into a speaking clock. Like it or lump very few people watch PMQ's, most only get exposed to it via the highlights on the evening news, to get on those highlights you have to actually you know have highlights.
Nicktendo86
Member
He's described the new wall in Calais as 'Trump like' so I would hold the platitudes for the moment.
travisbickle
Member
The arts and culture industry is one of the largest providers of work in the UK. I wasn't saying that we literally need more working class actors it was a statement that we need the largest pool of people, all young people, to have the opportunity to develop the skills to allow us to maintain our arts and culture. As soon as we restrict the opportunity to children whose parents have the financial wealth to pay for "extracurricular" study, the output from the UK drops in quality. Acting is a good example because of how many exceptionally talented and famous ones come from humble backgrounds.
Personally, I would have all schoolchildren take art, drama and music classes because it's good for their spirit but for the philistines among us who need financial reasons, half the tourists that come to the UK take part in arts and culture events.
Personally, I would have all schoolchildren take art, drama and music classes because it's good for their spirit but for the philistines among us who need financial reasons, half the tourists that come to the UK take part in arts and culture events.
Camp Freddie
Member
I think it's a mistake to characterise arts funding as 'acting lessons'.
It's a bit like saying English shouldn't be funded because most novellists are unsuccessful.
Arts skills at school level are basically just teaching people effective ways of expressing themselves and communicating. I did a Drama GCSE and it's been quite handy in making me more confident about giving presentations and generally communicating to an audience as a scientist. Though I remain hopeful that the producers of Bond will call any day now...
I do agree that we shouldn't try to add lots of mandatory drama/dance classes to the national curriculum at the expense of existing subjects. But adding funding to make existing dance/drama lessons and out-of-school clubs more effective seems like a good thing.
I think it's a good policy for Corbyn, but it's also one for "page 38 on the manifesto". It's not something that'll win many votes, and making a big deal about it would actually be counterproductive - since the policy can only work as a counterpart to other policies focusing on more traditional employment-related skills.
More successful politicians might use it as one stream in a bunch of policies calling for "Education, education, education!"
As an aside though, I am still angry at Blair for making that his catchphrase while he removed university grants, and introduced increasingly expensive tuition fees and loans. The LibDems 'betrayal' as a minor party in a coalition has nothing on Blair's doubletalk as a government with a massive majority. I never voted for him for that reason (and because I was already in a safe labour seat at the time). Despite that, I do appreciate that Blair did what had to be done to stop the Tories from doing something even worse.
CyclopsRock
Member
The person I quoted was talking about "drama classes" at school, rather than arts funding in general.
Broadly I agree, but this argument also works for, well, more or less everything. Having optional, well funded, after-school classes and clubs would benefit a whole lot of areas. Classes in school will always have to target the center as much as possible, and this harms people who are genuinely into acting (or any other aspect of drama that it's not possible to explore with any real depth in the context of a 50 minute lesson once a week), but this is also the case for kids who are into robotics or computer graphics or programming (though maybe this one's changed since I was at school). Can we fund them all? Can we staff them all? This is why I was really questioning the validity of the (rhetorical) question about whether we need working class actors. These after school resources are also finite, just like class time is.
Corbyn asked a genuine question about the housing market and was instead met with a petty, scripted jibe by May. You may as well not even have PMQ's if they're just going to be deflected.
QuicheFontaine
Member
"The train's left the station, the seats are all empty, the leader's on the floor, even on rolling stock, they're a laughing stock"
lol I didn't watch PMQs, but that's a quality zinger right there
One that's pre written by someone else and rather than answer the question then deliver the zinger, May jumps straight into it just desperate to get it out there rather than do her job and give a response.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Are you new to PMQs or something?
CyclopsRock
Member
Pfft, she's doing her job. I don't mean to sound like I'm making excuses, but even Ed would have made Dave pay if he'd said that.
Bony Manifesto
Member
True, but then that's when her opponent should offer a sharp rejoinder and continue to press on the same line of questioning.
Remaining stony-faced and quickly moving onto your next prepared question is letting her off the hook at best, and looks like you got ethered at worst (which is presumably how it'll look taken out of context on the news).
That's fair enough, I can agree to that. Corbyn doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Just sick that we're still getting the all mouth no answers approach to PMQ like Cameron has done in his tenure, particularly at this stage where the UK has a lot of difficult questions it has to answer. Considering that May also quoted an EDL defending bigot from Twitter for one of her jokes, I'm not impressed.
As you say though, Corbyn is making it too easy for them and letting them off the hook.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Meanwhile, can anyone guess what Ken Livingstone has been talking about?
https://twitter.com/KittsNews/status/773535668085620736
https://twitter.com/KittsNews/status/773535668085620736
WhateverItTakes
Banned
Whhhhhy are they still bothering with that shite. Christ. I bet Mandelson looks on at all this in sheer disbelief.
Can you please link actual quotes from reputable sources instead of what is essentially twitter gossip.
JonathanEx
Member
Here's the full quote from the Labour source: https://twitter.com/elashton/status/773513829422686209
It's not directly him, but it is his team.
Thanks. To me, it reads more like he would like to push for changes within the EU, opposed to outright anti-EU sentiment. But it is a bit vague, and is still hard to give it much weight atm with no name attached to these claims.
OverBlood 3
Banned
So our unelected leader quoted from the twitter account of a racist and sexist moron. Can't link but it's hitting news sites now.
Good thing Corbyn stayed seated...
Good thing Corbyn stayed seated...
JonathanEx
Member
Statement from Corbz here:
https://twitter.com/polhomeeditor/status/773559175695704065
"We will be pressing for full access to the European single market", but that's being seen as not membership of.
https://twitter.com/polhomeeditor/status/773559175695704065
"We will be pressing for full access to the European single market", but that's being seen as not membership of.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
For me, this has soured me enough on Corbyn to doubt voting Labour... But saying that, it might win over voters that may otherwise never have voted for him (it wont)!
Wait, Acting is actually a school course in the UK?
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
I'll just throw my tuppence worth in here. In about 1972, when I was about 14, drama was suddenly made a compulsory subject throughout our whole (enormous 2,000 pupil comprehensive) school up to and including sixth form. At the time it was all WTF is this for, but in hindsight it was the single best thing that the school ever did.
All of us worked better together, got along better with each other (and across the usual school divides such as academics v non-academics, jocks v nerds, male v female, form v form, sec-modern stream v grammar stream) and developed into more rounded people and better people than we otherwise would have been.
Also, noticeably less (ahem) troublemaking.
It worked wonders and I'm all in favour. It need only make for a marginal improvement in behaviour to more than compensate for the "lost" time in other subjects.
How do you think we produce so many Shakespearan actors to play the bad guys in Hollywood films? I was doing Hamlet in costume by the time I was 4!
Weird
In America, Drama is an extracurricular activity that you can sign up for if you want. Art and Music are the typical fine arts classes that are offered
What is wrong with the guy? Seriously?
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
It's not politics or debate. It's entertainment. That's why PMQ's is a complete waste of time. People don't remember key questions that hold the Government to account, they remember spines removed and Mr Bean.
But as always, there's new depths to be plumbed, and May quoting a racist twitter account has to be pretty down there.
CyclopsRock
Member
Are you guys seriously telling me he hasn't done anything mad today, like refer to a regional town newspaper as the "mainstream media" or accidentally promote an anti-Semite to the the shadow foreign ministry?
Jezbollah
Member
Probably not. I suspect he was practicing at his water colours today.
JonathanEx
Member
Yeah but he's got the Question Time special right now, so, that'll cover that well.
Though I'm not watching because I have better things to do (anything)
CyclopsRock
Member
I didn't watch it at all, but my perusal of Twitter suggests that almost all Labour party members (on there, at least) who watched it though Corbz utterly destroyed Smith, and that anyone not affiliated with the party thought the whole thing was a joke.
Seems to be an unpopular stance around here to be a Corbyn supporter these days (not of the rabid ilk, he simply appeals to me and my own ideologies) but I was impressed by his performance on Question Time last night; he was self-assured, articulate, and even funny at times. Big improvement from when he first took the job last year, he just needs to bring the same passion he exudes in debates to the dispatch box now. Smith flailed in comparison, and shot himself in the foot when he argued for us staying in the EU; I voted to remain, I am heartbroken by the result as I want to live and work in Europe after I graduate next year, but what's done is done and we have to make the best of it.
Corbyn brought up a good point by mentioning the re-energisation of politics since he took the leadership. I think people calling him unelectable are speaking too soon: Theresa May is nowhere near as strong an opponent as David Cameron was (her record as Home Secretary was laughable (remember her decorum in the 2011 riots, anyone)??, he's yet to lose any by-elections, polls have let us all down lately and don't necessarily represent all demographics, whatever lead the Tories have gained after the referendum result can be attributed more to the honeymoon period of a new PM and internal strife within Labour than any fault of Corbyn's as leader, and if even another 10-15% of youth turn out at the polling stations in 2020, it could be all Labour needs to get a hung parliament and open the possibility of a Labour-SNP coalition.
We'll see. I'm just looking forward to this petty civil war being done with, whatever the result, and hope that whatever the losing side may be, they put aside their personal squabbles and get back to what we should be doing, which is opposing government.
Corbyn brought up a good point by mentioning the re-energisation of politics since he took the leadership. I think people calling him unelectable are speaking too soon: Theresa May is nowhere near as strong an opponent as David Cameron was (her record as Home Secretary was laughable (remember her decorum in the 2011 riots, anyone)??, he's yet to lose any by-elections, polls have let us all down lately and don't necessarily represent all demographics, whatever lead the Tories have gained after the referendum result can be attributed more to the honeymoon period of a new PM and internal strife within Labour than any fault of Corbyn's as leader, and if even another 10-15% of youth turn out at the polling stations in 2020, it could be all Labour needs to get a hung parliament and open the possibility of a Labour-SNP coalition.
We'll see. I'm just looking forward to this petty civil war being done with, whatever the result, and hope that whatever the losing side may be, they put aside their personal squabbles and get back to what we should be doing, which is opposing government.
The polls have been wrong, yes - by constantly overstating labour support and underestimating Tory support. Not the other way around. That's a really weak argument to make, especially given the historic unpopularity of Corbyn. The polls would have to be astronomically wrong at a level unheard of for him to win.
(Also worth noting that the research shows there are more non/voters opposed to Corbyn than there are non/voters who support him!).
Also, winning a few ultra safe by/elections as an opposition is not a mark of strength. When the that's your evidence as to your electability, you have issues.
(Also worth noting that the research shows there are more non/voters opposed to Corbyn than there are non/voters who support him!).
Also, winning a few ultra safe by/elections as an opposition is not a mark of strength. When the that's your evidence as to your electability, you have issues.
WhateverItTakes
Banned
I wonder if Jezza has a plan in place for when he wins. He needs some serious outreach to the defecting MP's / the more centre voters and try his very best not to appear even a vague hint of smug afterwards. Find some way to sell all the doubters and beyond on his world view. I think British politics has been missing that you need to attract a diverse population to vote for you in addition to your usual strongholds. Well, I say missing, the Leave campaign did a good job of that I suppose...
Deselection.
(No joke - it will be a big thing in the run up to the next election. All the rumours from his camp are that him winning again means he won't have to pretend to get on with the parliamentary party anymore).
CyclopsRock
Member
There are more numbers out from random local government bumfuck elections - the sort that Corbyn berates the mainstream media for not reporting - that have seen Labour get soundly beaten. But the reason no one reports them is because they're so natty, and you actually have independent candidates wipe the floor with established parties if they're sufficiently popular the the Dog and Duck, or Swan and Paedo or whatever the pub is in the parish.
And yet we still haven't seen a united Labour party for a very long time. The polls were pretty close before the referendum, and honestly the Tories seemed all but set to implode after they gambled the country's future in June to prevent a split and lost. But all this drama happened within the Labour party and it's been an absolute farce.
Would Smith be more electable? Perhaps. Find him to be a bit of a talking head myself, not very charismatic, quite duplicitous (hearing him try to backtrack on what he said about ISIS last night was cringe-inducing) and I really couldn't see him inspiring any more Labour fervour than Milliband did. All 'his policies' are just reshaped policies of Corbyn, save for differences on Trident and the EU, there's nothing standout about him except for the fact that he has the support of most Labour MPs.
Besides all that, it's a moot point, and his own argument that we can't do anything without being in power works against him -- he's not going to secure the leadership, and so all this now is empty rhetoric, nothing else. The PLP needs to wake up and accept the situation for what it is, both sides need to compromise and work on presenting a cohesive front against the Tories. There are 4 years left before the next GE; that's enough time for anything to happen in the political sphere, and to write off Labour's chances completely now in 2016 is ridiculous.
The opposite is planned. After what they pulled last time, when Corbyn tried the nicely-nicely approach, this time it's all out war.
The NEC has been stuffed with pro-Corbyn candidates, pro-Corbyn CLPs have been on manoeuvres to skirt the disgraceful ban on meetings to prepare for Conference, and the coming "Re-selections" will be De-selections for any Anti-Corbyn candidates.
The Labour Party will be unrecognisable come 2020.
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