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[WhateverItTakes]

Deselection.

(No joke - it will be a big thing in the run up to the next election. All the rumours from his camp are that him winning again means he won't have to pretend to get on with the parliamentary party anymore).

The opposite is planned. After what they pulled last time, when Corbyn tried the nicely-nicely approach, this time it's all out war.

The NEC has been stuffed with pro-Corbyn candidates, pro-Corbyn CLPs have been on manoeuvres to skirt the disgraceful ban on meetings to prepare for Conference, and the coming "Re-selections" will be De-selections for any Anti-Corbyn candidates.

The Labour Party will be unrecognisable come 2020.

Well, can't say I blame the guy for consolidating power for himself and his movement when he can. And maybe the demographics will shift enough by the next general that his Labour will have a shot. Of course then they'd be competing in addition to any MPs/A whole new party that comes out of this.

It will be interesting to see develop but I can't help but feel like we're all fucked in the meantime.

 

[Maledict]

Besides all that, it's a moot point, and his own argument that we can't do anything without being in power works against him -- he's not going to secure the leadership, and so all this now is empty rhetoric, nothing else. The PLP needs to wake up and accept the situation for what it is, both sides need to compromise and work on presenting a cohesive front against the Tories. There are 4 years left before the next GE; that's enough time for anything to happen in the political sphere, and to write off Labour's chances completely now in 2016 is ridiculous.

The PLP *did* compromise. This fiction that since day 1 they have been against Corbyn simply isn't true. the holdouts were always, always less than 20 - the vast majority of the party compromised and tried to work with Jeremy.

And he failed. Utterly, and absolutely, in every possible respect, to even come *close* to being capable of running a major political party. Even the simplest of issues like meeting a press deadline couldn't be handled, never mind giving people other people's jobs, doing pointless reshuffles on major policy launch days, preferring to spend time with the cuban solidarity movement than his own party in the wake of brexit.

The labour party hates taking out leaders. Look at how long Blair, Brown and Miliband managed to last for when everyone was saying they needed to go. The fact that the reolt has been so utterly overwhleming demonstrates how utterly fucking awful he is as a leader.

He is not, in any way, shape or form, capable of doing the job. It's not even about policy - it's simply the basic management skills required to run a major political party.

 

[kmag]

The opposite is planned. After what they pulled last time, when Corbyn tried the nicely-nicely approach, this time it's all out war.

The NEC has been stuffed with pro-Corbyn candidates, pro-Corbyn CLPs have been on manoeuvres to skirt the disgraceful ban on meetings to prepare for Conference, and the coming "Re-selections" will be De-selections for any Anti-Corbyn candidates.

The Labour Party will be unrecognisable come 2020.

Unfortunately the parliamentary part of it will probably be able to conference in a minibus. But hey 'social movement'

 

[kmag]

It's not politics or debate. It's entertainment. That's why PMQ's is a complete waste of time. People don't remember key questions that hold the Government to account, they remember spines removed and Mr Bean.

But as always, there's new depths to be plumbed, and May quoting a racist twitter account has to be pretty down there.

Unfortunately for Corbyn fans, it's also the main conduit for an opposition leader to get on the tv. Corbyn's managing that but weekly images of him getting his arse handed to him by May (who's actually pretty poor at the dispatch box when against) probably isn't doing him any favours.

It's noticeable though that Corbyn is able to channel his anger against his own party but somehow never actually manages it in the commons against his supposed enemy the Tories. But then the Left always left it's ire for internal squabbles.

 

[Hazzuh]

The PLP *did* compromise. This fiction that since day 1 they have been against Corbyn simply isn't true. the holdouts were always, always less than 20 - the vast majority of the party compromised and tried to work with Jeremy.

To add to this, we have fairly concrete evidence this is the case since Corbyn's team made a list of MPs ranked by hostility in March. Note how many previously supportive MPs he alienated.

 

[BKK]

Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily "image from Rochester" Thornberry just had a meltdown on Murnaghan where she couldn't answer any questions on foreign affairs. She then called Murnaghan sexist for asking her difficult questions. Would probably result in a resignation usually, but I don't think that Corbyn could find anyone to replace her, so I guess that we're stuck with an incompetent looking opposition for the remainder of this parliament..

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily "image from Rochester" Thornberry just had a meltdown on Murnaghan where she couldn't answer any questions on foreign affairs. She then called Murnaghan sexist for asking her difficult questions. Would probably result in a resignation usually, but I don't think that Corbyn could find anyone to replace her, so I guess that we're stuck with an incompetent looking opposition for the remainder of this parliament..

Posh, entitled and useless. Sums up Corbyn's mob.

 

[Jackpot]

Didn't even know if South Korea's president was male or female, despite specifically asking to be quizzed on the latest developments in Korea.

 

[travisbickle]

Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily "image from Rochester" Thornberry just had a meltdown on Murnaghan where she couldn't answer any questions on foreign affairs. She then called Murnaghan sexist for asking her difficult questions. Would probably result in a resignation usually, but I don't think that Corbyn could find anyone to replace her, so I guess that we're stuck with an incompetent looking opposition for the remainder of this parliament..

Saw the clip. It's a tit for tat exchange about knowing people's names in a live interview setting, like she says "pub quizzing". She should know the person's name when asked but George Osborne should have been able to answer a child's maths question. It's good for a laugh but people shouldn't lose jobs over it.

The Sky News presenter shouldn't make up headlines about what the South Korean President didn't say. I live in South Korea, currently there's protests against a Nuclear deterrent being built in the South and an unnamed source within the army said what he claims the President said.

 

[Jackpot]

Saw the clip. It's a tit for tat exchange about knowing people's names in a live interview setting, like she says "pub quizzing". She should know the person's name when asked but George Osborne should have been able to answer a child's maths question. It's good for a laugh but people shouldn't lose jobs over it.

So you think it's ok for the Shadow Foreign Secretary to not know who her opposite numbers are in France and Germany, and to then accuse the interviewer of being motivated by an intrinsic hatred of women?

 

[IdreamofHIME]

That Sky news interview is horrendous. It's literally Nicola Murray from Thick of It having a meltdown.

 

[travisbickle]

So you think it's ok for the Shadow Foreign Secretary to not know who her opposite numbers are in France and Germany, and to then accuse the interviewer of being motivated by an intrinsic hatred of women?

No.

 

[Hazzuh]

The New York Times has done a piece of about antisemitism in the Labour party too.

Not much new information but there is this thing about Milne trying to have Hebrew removed from a Passover message because he thought it seemed "Zionist"

The insensitivity extends to Mr. Corbyn’s inner circle. One senior party spokesman, Paul Flynn, said in 2011 that Britain should not appoint a Jew as ambassador to Israel, because the post should be filled by “someone with roots” in Britain who couldn’t “be accused of having Jewish loyalty” — unwittingly invoking the anti-Semitic trope of Jewish disloyalty. This year, one of Mr. Corbyn’s closest aides, Seumas Milne, wanted to remove the greeting “Chag Kasher VeSameach,” which translates as “A Happy and Kosher Holiday,’ from the leader’s Passover message to the community because he felt the use of Hebrew implied support for Zionism. (After some debate, Mr. Milne was overruled.)

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Deselecting Labour MPs is going to drive them and their staff away from the party entirely.

The nightmare for Corbyn is when one of the actually competent Labour MPs (Jarvis, for example) gets deselected and flips to a new party or the LDs, and suddenly the media message is that Labour *has* split.

If you want to see Labour crash to below 20% in the polls, give the media free reign to treat your party as dead.

 

[Nicktendo86]

The Evening Standard has leaked that Corbyn's constituency is set to be torn up due to the boundary review.

Someone at the boundary commission must want to save labour from itself!

Jeremy Corbyn’s seat looks set to disappear in a new map of boundaries, the Evening Standard has learned.

The Labour leader is currently MP for Islington North, but this will cease to exist in a controversial review ordered by the Tory Government.

Leaked details of the proposals, which will be published overnight by the Boundaries Commission, say his seat will be carved up and the pieces allocated to neighbouring seats.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...tories-planned-boundary-changes-a3342936.html

 

[Maledict]

From the data I saw Jerremy will be fine - his seat will change a bit, but it will still be very very safe. London Tories actually have quite a bit to worry about compared to the rest of the country - London has become such a Labour stronghold that the changes could lose them a few seats. The battersea seat for example is ripe for the taking.

On the plus side, Jeremy now has the worse opposition poll rating of any labour leader a year into his term. Only person who beats him is Hague for the Tories in 1998.

 

[Coxy100]

So you think it's ok for the Shadow Foreign Secretary to not know who her opposite numbers are in France and Germany, and to then accuse the interviewer of being motivated by an intrinsic hatred of women?

Do you know I've focussed so much on the second part (sexism) that I actually forgot how bad the first part is!

 

[JonathanEx]

On the plus side, Jeremy now has the worse opposition poll rating of any labour leader a year into his term. Only person who beats him is Hague for the Tories in 1998.

See, Corbyn is ahead of the tories in polls. And people say he's unelectable.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Yeah London has become a very Labour city, the inner boroughs anyway and it has been for some time. I feel the inner cities will pretty much be the only strongholds left after the next election, whenever that takes place.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

The Evening Standard has leaked that Corbyn's constituency is set to be torn up due to the boundary review.

Someone at the boundary commission must want to save labour from itself!



http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...tories-planned-boundary-changes-a3342936.html

lol

Not only are tories quick at getting rid of their own leaders, they can get rid of labours faster then labour!

 

[Nicktendo86]

Just read that the new seat Corbyn will have to take has about 37% of residents who identify as Jewish.

Someone is just trolling him surely.

 

[Hazzuh]

Why doesn't Jeremy try standing in one of the marginals Labour needs to win in 2020? Croydon Central needs a swing of 0.16%, how hard can it be?

 

[Nicktendo86]

Why doesn't Jeremy try standing in one of the marginals Labour needs to win in 2020? Croydon Central needs a swing of 0.16%, how hard can it be?

If he is so sure of his electability, why not. Go on Jezza.

 

[haxamin]

In other news, Cameron has resigned as MP.

 

[JonathanEx]

Buzzfeed have more leaked emails showing the struggle to get Corbyn to publicly back the EU: with Milne removing pro-EU bits and adding anti stuff to speeches. https://www.buzzfeed.com/marielecon...team-over-eu-c?utm_term=.fqM53L1vr#.mnoaq301K

 

[BigAl1992]

Buzzfeed have more leaked emails showing the struggle to get Corbyn to publicly back the EU: with Milne removing pro-EU bits and adding anti stuff to speeches. https://www.buzzfeed.com/marielecon...team-over-eu-c?utm_term=.fqM53L1vr#.mnoaq301K

If this gains traction in the media, Labour could lose more voters who voted remain and are disillusioned with Corbyn's leadership.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Buzzfeed have more leaked emails showing the struggle to get Corbyn to publicly back the EU: with Milne removing pro-EU bits and adding anti stuff to speeches. https://www.buzzfeed.com/marielecon...team-over-eu-c?utm_term=.fqM53L1vr#.mnoaq301K

Shocked that anyone actually expected a politician who has spent his entire career going against the EU would suddenly put his heart and soul into it. It was obvious he would do the bear minimum, half arsed campaigning.

 

[jelly]

People should just vote Lib Dems at this point, sure they fucked up with Student fees but they more or less kept the Tories in check. Win more seats for the Lib dems and go from there. Labour are done.

 

[Nicktendo86]

While I think the lib dems will eventually pick up it will be a while yet, they are still severely tainted. They are a party that basically promised the world not thinking they had a hope in hell getting anywhere near government pre 2010 and their support base were not happy seeing them supporting things they had previously campaigned against.

Didn't help that the also spent the 2015 GE campaign basically rubbishing their time in office and alloing the tories to take credit for the good stuff. If the new boundaries go through I would thing they will end up with about 3-5 seats post 2020 tbh.

 

[JonathanEx]

Shocked that anyone actually expected a politician who has spent his entire career going against the EU would suddenly put his heart and soul into it. It was obvious he would do the bear minimum, half arsed campaigning.

It's as if someone provably to have views different to the party platform is awkward to lead it. 🤔

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

People should just vote Lib Dems at this point, sure they fucked up with Student fees but they more or less kept the Tories in check. Win more seats for the Lib dems and go from there. Labour are done.

In a perfect world the Lib Dems would be the opposition.

 

[CyclopsRock]

In a perfect world the Lib Dems would be the opposition.

Haha, I love that even in a perfect world they still can't win. Poor ol' Lib Dems.

 

[Maledict]

Haha, I love that even in a perfect world they still can't win. Poor ol' Lib Dems.

That made me laugh out loud... ;-)

 

[Real Hero]

In a perfect world the Lib Dems would be the opposition.

Sounds like hell

 

[redunzgofasta]

Haha, I love that even in a perfect world they still can't win. Poor ol' Lib Dems.

This post made my day.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Woof!

"Proposed constituencies imply LAB needs to win 97 seats to gain a majority. If no gains in Scotland winning line is Basingstoke (maj 11,000)"

Can't verify the truth of this but...

Edit: Further to that, the last time a party that wasn't the Tories won Basingstoke it was the Liberals almost 100 years ago. This has nothing to do with Corbyn other than to demonstrate the scale of his task.

 

[Maledict]

Woof!

"Proposed constituencies imply LAB needs to win 97 seats to gain a majority. If no gains in Scotland winning line is Basingstoke (maj 11,000)"

Can't verify the truth of this but...

Edit: Further to that, the last time a party that wasn't the Tories won Basingstoke it was the Liberals almost 100 years ago. This has nothing to do with Corbyn other than to demonstrate the scale of his task.

New Labour Party members are in complete denial about the task in front of them, when it's actually really simple. Labour has to persuade Tory voters to vote labour.

That's it.

There is no hidden, non-voting group of people ready for socialism that haven't been voting labour because it's too centrist. In order to ever enact a single policy, labour has to convince centrist voters who currently vote Tory to vote labour. It's nothing to do wth Scotland, Blair won off England alone. That's what's needed to win . Dominate and own the centre ground.

Despite her current polling Thesea is a PM in an incredibly precarious position whose already made errors, and clearly weak at the dispatch box. Any opposition leader worth their salt would be shredding her right now (and rightfully so!). To refer to the great Satan again - Blair would be utterly dominating the press right now.

 

[Colin.]

Despite her current polling Thesea is a PM in an incredibly precarious position whose already made errors, and clearly weak at the dispatch box. Any opposition leader worth their salt would be shredding her right now (and rightfully so!). To refer to the great Satan again - Blair would be utterly dominating the press right now.

It's a shame that such talent within the Labour party was nowhere to be seen when the terribly timed coup was executed, and it was time for MP's to put their name forward to challenge the leadership. Cowards.

 

[f0rk]

It's a shame that such talent within the Labour party was nowhere to be seen when the terribly timed coup was executed, and it was time for MP's to put their name forward to challenge the leadership. Cowards.

When would be a good time for the coup?

 

[Colin.]

When would be a good time for the coup?

Preferably not in the aftermath of the result of a referendum that only occurred as a result of the Conservatives trying to appeal to the UKIP crowd. They completely squandered the opportunity to unite and go on the offensive, and instead made their party look like the ones in disarray.

 

[f0rk]

Preferably not in the aftermath of the result of a referendum that only occurred as a result of the Conservatives trying to appeal to the UKIP crowd. They completely squandered the opportunity to unite and go on the offensive, and instead made their party look like the ones in disarray.

And Corbyn would be the right leader to go on the offensive about the referendum result? His comments immediately following were the same as hardcore UKIP voters (invoke article 50 now).

Labour MPs were worried that there was going to be a general election which they would get demolished in under Corbyn, and they didn't think he would be stubborn enough to ignore a vote of no confidence. With hindsight you can say it was poorly timed, but I don't see when it would be a good one. They thought they had to do something so they did.

 

[Empty]

Woof!

"Proposed constituencies imply LAB needs to win 97 seats to gain a majority. If no gains in Scotland winning line is Basingstoke (maj 11,000)"

Can't verify the truth of this but...

Edit: Further to that, the last time a party that wasn't the Tories won Basingstoke it was the Liberals almost 100 years ago. This has nothing to do with Corbyn other than to demonstrate the scale of his task.

i mean it is related to corbyn in that it goes a long way to explaining why he will win again

the size of the task of returning labour to government is so large that only a leader of the talent of 90s blair could manage it. even if jarvis or ummuna or whoever you think is the most electable labour mp were running, they can't do that. as such most members would rather try to change the conversation ("now we are truly standing up for what's right", "what if we try and create a social movement that makes the country's politics no longer fundamentally just right of center") than think about starting the miserable journey up that hill.

personally i think there's a lot that can be done to undermine theresa may's vision for britain given her slim majority and by presenting a plausible social democratic vision of what brexit britain looks like to keep the dealmakers under pressure (or if you like, questioning the need for brexit at all, though i think that dream is looking v slim indeed atm). plus ultimately you can't just put off the task of making yourself electable hoping for the next economic crisis as a deus ex machina, you need to start rebuilding trust over time. but the left tends to be grand in its vision and is motivated massively by idealism and the hope of a much better world. even blair with his precise practical pledge cards and managerialist government loved to talk himself up as a modern reformer boldly reshaping britain for the new millennium. it's an inescapable driving force of the labour party and many of its achievements as much as i and many are crying for a bit of pragmatism at the moment.

 

[Colin.]

And Corbyn would be the right leader to go on the offensive about the referendum result? His comments immediately following were the same as hardcore UKIP voters (invoke article 50 now).

Labour MPs were worried that there was going to be a general election which they would get demolished in under Corbyn, and they didn't think he would be stubborn enough to ignore a vote of no confidence. With hindsight you can say it was poorly timed, but I don't see when it would be a good one. They thought they had to do something so they did.

The article 50 stance you mention was a quote that was taken out of context for the media spin of "Corbyn wants Brexit now!" which isn't the case. He's made it clear that his stance is to respect the result, and only trigger article 50 once negotiations have been completed. (Something I hope never happens) Whilst I do find myself agreeing with a lot with what he has to say, I also feel his skills to be an effective leader are really lacking. But behaving the way the PLP have has not helped the situation at all, and anyone that could of possibly mounted a serious leadership challenge and turn things around have effectively went into hiding. It's all rather frustrating.

 

[Maledict]

The article 50 stance you mention was a quote that was taken out of context for the media spin of "Corbyn wants Brexit now!" which isn't the case. He's made it clear that his stance is to respect the result, and only trigger article 50 once negotiations have been completed. (Something I hope never happens) Whilst I do find myself agreeing with a lot with what he has to say, I also feel his skills to be an effective leader are really lacking. But behaving the way the PLP have has not helped the situation at all, and anyone that could of possibly mounted a serious leadership challenge and turn things around have effectively went into hiding. It's all rather frustrating.

He wasn't misquoted. Let's stop pretending Jeremy wasn't a Brexit supporter, we havge mounds of evidence at this point that shows he was in favour of brexit and his office did as little as possible to help the remain campaign.

“The British people have made their decision. We must respect that result and Article 50 has to be invoked now so that we negotiate an exit from European Union.

“Obviously there has to be strategy but the whole point of the referendum was that the public would be asked their opinion. They’ve given their opinion. It is up for parliament to now act on that opinion.

“Quite clearly negotiations must take place. There must be the best deal possible in order to ensure strong industries in Britain stay strong and strong industries that have big export markets protect retain those export markets. But we are in some very difficult areas. That’s obvious to everybody.

The word now being key there. He wanted us out as soon as possible, and there's no "misquoting" going on.

 

[Wvrs]

A handy win at PMQs for Corbyn today. He does well with education, and it was nice to see his MPs actually rally around him. Felt like the first time we'd seen an actual opposition in ages.

I really can't understand why this 'unelectable' babble comes from. In Question Time last week, and at the dispatch box today, Corbyn's shown himself to be articulate, quick on his feet, passionate and able to deliver a strong stance against the Tories. I'm interested to see how the next four years unfold.

 

[Maledict]

A handy win at PMQs for Corbyn today. He does well with education, and it was nice to see his MPs actually rally around him. Felt like the first time we'd seen an actual opposition in ages.

I really can't understand why this 'unelectable' babble comes from. In Question Time last week, and at the dispatch box today, Corbyn's shown himself to be articulate, quick on his feet, passionate and able to deliver a strong stance against the Tories. I'm interested to see how the next four years unfold.

He did do well at PMQs - what a disaster this has been for May.

And the unelectable stuff is coming from the objective reality? He is polling worse than any other labour opposition leader at any point, and every data point we have points to the Tories increasing their majority at the next election. His popularity is unbelievably low. For labour to win they have to take seats from the Tories - -and Corbyn is utterly poison to those centrist voters who labour need to take seats. We've had a year of him in charge and the numbers remain utterly terrible.

 

[Real Hero]

I do hope he's decided to to take pmq's seriously. He's going to win again so the least he could do is be that good most of the time

 

[Wvrs]

He did do well at PMQs - what a disaster this has been for May.

And the unelectable stuff is coming from the objective reality? He is polling worse than any other labour opposition leader at any point, and every data point we have points to the Tories increasing their majority at the next election. His popularity is unbelievably low. For labour to win they have to take seats from the Tories - -and Corbyn is utterly poison to those centrist voters who labour need to take seats. We've had a year of him in charge and the numbers remain utterly terrible.

The polls were relatively close until the civil war broke out post-Brexit. It seems to me that Corbyn could read out Labour's 1945 manifesto and he'd still get hamstrung by mass media and the PLP. At this point, as much as I wish it weren't so (as I do have a huge interest in politics and do wish to see this country better itself) I'm really starting to cease to care, the EU referendum's result was absolutely at odds with my personal beliefs to the point where I can hardly reconcile what happened; the greater British public not holding popular views on Corbyn does little to convince me to stop backing him. I think if, following the party conference this month, the party decides to accept the result and unite behind him (I'm not holding my breath), then we could see stronger opposition week in, week out.

I think it's still too early to call it, either way. We've got nearly four whole years before the next GE, and June showed how decades can take place within days. Anything could happen.

 

[Maledict]

The polls were relatively close until the civil war broke out post-Brexit. It seems to me that Corbyn could read out Labour's 1945 manifesto and he'd still get hamstrung by mass media and the PLP. At this point, as much as I wish it weren't so (as I do have a huge interest in politics and do wish to see this country better itself) I'm really starting to cease to care, the EU referendum's result was absolutely at odds with my personal beliefs to the point where I can hardly reconcile what happened; the greater British public not holding popular views on Corbyn does little to convince me to stop backing him.

I think it's still too early to call it, either way. We've got nearly four whole years before the next GE, and June showed how decades can take place within days. Anything could happen.

They weren't that close, and the key point is - labour should / need to be ahead! Saying they were close and that labour was only a bit behind is missing the main point - labour are supposed to be ahead at this point in he cycle! If labour are behind now, the odds are hugely against them winning an election.

And yes four years is a long time - but Corvyn shows no sign of improving or of shifting the numbers, and we can't afford to just write off another 5 years in the hope of some miracle. Yes, things might change - but every sign says otherwise.

 

[Wvrs]

They weren't that close, and the key point is - labour should / need to be ahead! Saying they were close and that labour was only a bit behind is missing the main point - labour are supposed to be ahead at this point in he cycle! If labour are behind now, the odds are hugely against them winning an election.

And yes four years is a long time - but Corvyn shows no sign of improving or of shifting the numbers, and we can't afford to just write off another 5 years in the hope of some miracle. Yes, things might change - but every sign says otherwise.

What makes you think Owen Smith would be any more electable? He seems to have adopted most of Corbyn's policies as his own, seems to think we can ignore the referendum result and remain in the EU, and runs the risk of alienating the Muslim electorate with his views on Prevent. He lacks, in my eyes, any form of charisma or distinct personality, and hasn't been doing well in the Leadership Debates -- how would he fare any better as Leader of the Opposition?

Labour's been in disrepute for years now; you say we should / need to be ahead, but the 2015 General Election should have been a dead cert for Labour, and that disaster was before Corbyn took the helm. I don't know who would be doing a better job right now.