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[TCRS]

Let the fucking Arab league bomb Syria.

Seriously, what's up with them? They keep buying shitloads of military hardware, but never actually use it (except against their own people) and cry for western intervention instead.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

Let the fucking Arab league bomb Syria.

It's easier said than done.

 

[SKINNER!]

Let the fucking Arab league bomb Syria.

You think western politicians are incompetent? Ha, you ain't seen shit. The Arab league is a joke.

 

[PJV3]

Seriously, what's up with them? They keep buying shitloads of military hardware, but never actually use it (except against their own people) and cry for western intervention instead.

I was getting irritated at every mention of them, if Syrian intervention went wrong they would be the first to blame us.

It's easier said than done.

I know.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Political manoeuvring, nothing more. The fact that it was tabled before the main vote was just a way to try to divide the sitting government.

The ammendment was shit anyway. Labour would know there isn't a smoking gun that will prove everything they required to allow for surgical strikes. Even if there was one, it would take a cease fire and unrestricted access to find it.

Everyone else knows that, well apart from labour



The issue with Afghanistan wasn't intervention, it was mission creep.

Labour didn't learn any lessons from Iraq, they just learned a lesson from a general election. Thats like saying the BNP is not a racist party as they no longer use racist rhetoric to go chasing votes.

They won an election after Iraq. It doesn't quite work like that just to say.

 

[Ding-Ding]

Let the fucking Arab league bomb Syria.

You will be waiting a long time then.

The Arab League wont do anything. After Egypt & Libya having regime change. Syria going through a civil war. They will be limited to just words, in the hope it doesn't piss off its own citizens who then start their own Arab Spring.

The UN will be powerless as Russia sits as one of the five permanent members. They need the port at Tartous, as they lost presence in the mediterranean after the soviet collapse. They want to challenge in the area again, as its been a NATO lake ever since.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Seriously, what's up with them? They keep buying shitloads of military hardware, but never actually use it (except against their own people) and cry for western intervention instead.

They lack this thing called "human resources". Their commanding staff is useless.

 

[FreedomFighter]

I've never been less proud to be british. Shameful voting by our ministers.

cyberheater, go home.

 

[Ding-Ding]

They won an election after Iraq. It doesn't quite work like that just to say.

The 2005 GE had just as much to do with a lack of a decent opposition than anything else. I have mostly voted Tory through my life but in 2005, I couldn't vote for them (didnt vote at all).

Since then, the conservatives became more coherent. The Iraq war was starting to be proved that it was all a lie. Afghanistan went through yet another mission creep. Then the economy tanked as that was just another lie.

I did find it funny though that a shitload of British people called Americans stupid as they voted Bush back in, yet voted for a Blair lead Labour government. Proving the British electorate is just as thick as its American counterpart

 

[Hermii]

So basically...its okay to use chemical weapons against your own people?

How many billions and how many Iraqi lives did it cost to get here?

What are you trying to say? If Iraq thought us anything, woudnt it be to not go to war with unconclusive evidence backing up your claims?

 

[v1oz]

Weakening the person with the upper hand could just as likely extend the war even further, to play devils advocate for a moment if the end goal is to stop the war for the sake of the civilians then surely the best response would be to help Assad and strike against the 'rebel' groups. That would bring the war swiftly to an end and stop the western foreign policy head butting against the Russians.

The Russians (and to a lesser extent Iran) have already heavily armed Assad to fight the rebels since the war started. Thus far this hasn't worked since the civil war has continued to ravage for over 2 years now.

That's likely because the Opposition has the support of a majority of the population who cannot stand the regime any more. No rebel movement in any country can survive against a government without the support of the masses. The Opposition also has some support from the other Arab states like Saudi Arabia. So even if the West armed Assad - the Arabs would continue to arm the opposition.

What if we do help the rebels, who are after all a bunch of separate groups that hate each other as much as they hate Assad do we really rely on them to being peace and democracy to syria post Assad? Under Assad there will be a stable government with a chain of command, under the rebels Syria could be torn apart by the power vacuum as those separate groups turn on each other for the top seat.

No one knows what happens after Assad goes. But what can be done is take the best position based on the balance of probabilities.

What is certain is that if Assad stays in power they will continue to be fighting and bloodshed because no one in his own country wants him any more. And you can't win the hearts and minds of the people through sheer brutality for an indefinite period of time. Killing everyone that is opposed to your rule is not a solution to a crysis like this. You only harden your enemies and the opposition has vowed to continue to fight for regime change. Therefore Syria can never be stable with Assad still in power.

As for the Opposition they are at least united in their calls for a revolution and an end to political repression. This is what the Arab Spring was all about. The largest group in the Opposition is by far the Free Syrian Army (which is mostly composed of defected Syrian Armed Forces personnel and volunteers), they will likely carry a lot more political clout than anyone else. The other groups like the Islamic Liberation Front and Jabhat al-Nusra are much smaller. And realistically in a post war scenario, you would more likely get a political settlement amongst the various opposition groups, than you would between the Assad regime and the opposition who have sworn to crush each other till the end.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

The 2005 GE had just as much to do with a lack of a decent opposition than anything else. I have mostly voted Tory through my life but in 2005, I couldn't vote for them (didnt vote at all).

Since then, the conservatives became more coherent. The Iraq war was starting to be proved that it was all a lie. Afghanistan went through yet another mission creep. Then the economy tanked as that was just another lie.

I did find it funny though that a shitload of British people called Americans stupid as they voted Bush back in, yet voted for a Blair lead Labour government. Proving the British electorate is just as thick as its American counterpart

Er...

 

[Ovek]

When you have a Syrian jet dropping incendiary bombs on a playground full of kids. It's time to act.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=665405

And we have committed just as bad atrocities in the name of peace and "regime change".

 

[Ding-Ding]

What are you trying to say? If Iraq thought us anything, woudnt it be to not go to war with unconclusive evidence backing up your claims?

This is what alot of people just dont understand. After Iraq, you want evidence that is 100% accurate. In a war, that is extremely hard, close to impossible to find.

As a former soldier myself. I can tell you in the midst of war, nothing is constant, everything is fluid. You will have intelligence that contradicts itself, let alone another piece of intelligence. People appear left, right and centre so you dont know who the hell is friend, and who the fuck is foe.

There comes a time when someone has to make a best educated guess out of all the info available. With over 100k people dead and chemical weapons now in play, its time someone makes a stand.

Sorry but to me that only proves Milliband doesn't have the balls to be PM.

 

[twobear]

This is what alot of people just dont understand. After Iraq, you want evidence that is 100% accurate. In a war, that is extremely hard, close to impossible to find.

Any evidence at all would be a nice start as far as Iraq is concerned.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

The government has lost by 285 votes to 272 - a majority of 13.
- MPs have voted down a government attempt to secure provisional authorisation for military intervention in Syria.
- David Cameron has said he will respect the decision, and not order an attack.
- One MP shouted "resign" at Cameron.


Ed Milband stands up on a point of order.

He asks for an assurance that the govenrment will not use the royal perogative to start military intervention.

Cameron says he believes in respecting the will of the House.

He says he "gets" the message.

haha classic. the political equivalent of shouting 'pussy' to some kid who doesn't wanna scrap.

 

[PJV3]

This is what alot of people just dont understand. After Iraq, you want evidence that is 100% accurate. In a war, that is extremely hard, close to impossible to find.

As a former soldier myself. I can tell you in the midst of war, nothing is constant, everything is fluid. You will have intelligence that contradicts itself, let alone another piece of intelligence. People appear left, right and centre so you dont know who the hell is friend, and who the fuck is foe.

There comes a time when someone has to make a best educated guess out of all the info available. With over 100k people dead and chemical weapons now in play, its time someone makes a stand.

Sorry but to me that only proves Milliband doesn't have the balls to be PM.

No, lobbing a few missile into a warzone isn't adressing the long bloody history of Syria. Especially with all the vile elements that have descended on the place.

 

[jimi_dini]

So how long before the US rename German beer and sausages?

"However, Germany said it would not participate in military action."

They always say that. And then they indirectly support it anyway. See Iraq for example. *cough* AWACS *cough*

I've never been less proud to be british. Shameful voting by our ministers.

Hey, what about I give you 30EUR. Maybe a few GAFfers will give you some money as well
And then you use that money to buy a plane ticket to Syria. Of course you will have to get a gun somehow from somewhere - can't help you with that - and then you can personally fight against the government of Syria CoD-style. Wouldn't that be great?

 

[Ding-Ding]

Any evidence at all would be a nice start as far as Iraq is concerned.

This is what I am trying to say. The so called 'intelligence' that started the Iraq war for the UK was fabricated by Blair lead Labour government.

The governments of both the UK and US have changed since then. How long have they now got to stay immobile before they prove to people that they are not Tony Blair or George Bush.

Here is some questions though for all those that are against military action of any kind.

How many more people need to die and how many more chemical shells need to fall before you say "enough"

No, lobbing a few missile into a warzone isn't adressing the long bloody history of Syria

So you think the best way to solve it is if the population is gassed by its own government?

 

[Batigol]

I think you can only not interfere for so long. Using chemical weapons crossed a line. Now is the time to do something. Can't sit back and let them gas their own people, which is why I'm for America doing something

 

[Ovek]

The governments of both the UK and US have changed since then.

The intelligence agencies however have not.

So you think the best way to solve it is if the population is gassed by its own government?

Youre stating that as fact, it has yet to be proven.

 

[PJV3]

This is what I am trying to say. The so called 'intelligence' that started the Iraq war for the UK was fabricated by Blair lead Labour government.

The governments of both the UK and US have changed since then. How long have they now got to stay immobile before they prove to people that they are not Tony Blair or George Bush.

Here is some questions though for all those that are against military action of any kind.

How many more people need to die and how many more chemical shells need to fall before you say "enough"

It's been made quite clear that weakening the regime or altering the balance isn't on the agenda, if that's true then the bodycount is going to carry on growing.

Cameron pulled a ridiculous stunt and got burnt, he leads a hung parliament and didn't even bother to check with his own MPs, that isn't how a prime minister leads a country into military action.

And please cut out the bollocks of people unhappy with the Cameron approach, as being Assad supporters or ok with chemical weapons.

 

[Goodlife]

This is what alot of people just dont understand. After Iraq, you want evidence that is 100% accurate. In a war, that is extremely hard, close to impossible to find.

As a former soldier myself. I can tell you in the midst of war, nothing is constant, everything is fluid. You will have intelligence that contradicts itself, let alone another piece of intelligence. People appear left, right and centre so you dont know who the hell is friend, and who the fuck is foe.

There comes a time when someone has to make a best educated guess out of all the info available. With over 100k people dead and chemical weapons now in play, its time someone makes a stand.

Sorry but to me that only proves Milliband doesn't have the balls to be PM.

Ah, all becomes clear

 

[ghst]

And we have committed just as bad atrocities in the name of peace and "regime change".

huh, what firestorms?

 

[Ding-Ding]

The intelligence agencies however have not.
Youre stating that as fact, it has yet to be proven.

If you are waiting for certain proof, then you are just asking to be deceived.

It's been made quite clear that weakening the regime or altering the balance isn't on the agenda, if that's true then the bodycount is going to carry on growing.

Cameron pulled a ridiculous stunt and got burnt, he leads a hung parliament and didn't even bother to check with his own MPs, that isn't how a prime minister leads a country into military action.

If this goes ahead, it will be surgical strikes against fixed SAM sites, telling the regime we have his air and can hit his bases if the needs arise. It wont stop the war but its a deterrent against the use of further chemical weapons deployment.

You may not want us to get involved but not as much as the syrian government

 

[Dabanton]

So there will be no boots on the ground just 'strategic strikes' what happens after that?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

This is what alot of people just dont understand. After Iraq, you want evidence that is 100% accurate. In a war, that is extremely hard, close to impossible to find.

As a former soldier myself. I can tell you in the midst of war, nothing is constant, everything is fluid. You will have intelligence that contradicts itself, let alone another piece of intelligence. People appear left, right and centre so you dont know who the hell is friend, and who the fuck is foe.

There comes a time when someone has to make a best educated guess out of all the info available. With over 100k people dead and chemical weapons now in play, its time someone makes a stand.

Sorry but to me that only proves Milliband doesn't have the balls to be PM.

It takes "balls" to decide to bomb the crap out of a foreign people on a hunch?

You can't fix what's wrong with that country by killing more people. The world isn't that simple. You can't save lives by simply disabling one delivery method of death. You can't favor one side in a civil war without taking responsibility for what the other side does in the aftermath.

Pretending that we'll just neatly destroy a conveniently labeled chemical weapons depot and then step aside is the height of naivety.

 

[Ovek]

huh, what firestorms?

The Kapisa airstrike is the first of far to many that comes to mind.

Was it a fuel-air bomb or napalm? No but that really don't matter.

 

[shinobi602]

Good.

 

[Ding-Ding]

Ah, all becomes clear

What the fuck is THAT supposed to mean...

I have lost 3 friends in previous wars. 2 in afghanistan and another in Iraq. So if you think I enjoyed burying them, think again.

I wasnt involved with either war but I have been involved in others and I can tell you, the majority of civilians dont know shit about what a war is really like.

Alot of you think you know, because you sit in a chair watching watered down news. I have seen children in bits & pieces, who were targetted by the enemy because their town accepted foreign medical aid.

So dont pretend you know what a soldier goes through. Their reasons for serving or what war is really like. As I can guarantee you will be wrong 99 times out of 100

 

[darkwing]

So there will be no boots on the ground just 'strategic strikes' what happens after that?

nothing, the US can't afford another Iraq/Afghanistan

 

[captainnapalm]

The West: Covertly undermines Syrian leadership for years to bring about civil war, runs anti-Syrian government news channels in Syria, supports or turns a blind eye to allies Saudi Arabia and Qatar funding terrorists to infiltrate Syria.

Now wants to bomb Syria to prevent further human rights disaster. Yeah, that you knowingly helped create in the first place, you gigantic assholes.

'We can't let this killing that we helped bring about continue. We simply must start some killing of our own to stop this killing. Are you going to let us just sit back and ignore all this killing and not kill? We need the rebels to take over and start some tinpot government sanctioned killing. And we need to start making a killing.'

 

[Goodlife]

Let's go shoot some shit

fixed

 

[zeroOman]

it'a not a surprise, but the funny thing is u could feel the war is coming but in 24h every one hold back as if Russia going to join the war xD

 

[Ding-Ding]

fixed

You are a real cunt do you know that!!!

 

[Goodlife]

You are a real cunt do you know that!!!

If you used a couple more exclamation marks I think it would help me get the message

 

[Ding-Ding]

If you used a couple more exclamation marks I think it would help me get the message

I think no amount of exclamation marks can force anything through into your thick skull.

 

[Goodlife]

I think no amount of exclamation marks cant force anything through into your thick skull.

Um, ok, if you like.

 

[cyberheater]

fixed

I don't know what you're like in real life but that was a shitty thing to do. You should apologise.

 

[cyberheater]

What the fuck is THAT supposed to mean...

I have lost 3 friends in previous wars. 2 in afghanistan and another in Iraq. So if you think I enjoyed burying them, think again.

I wasnt involved with either war but I have been involved in others and I can tell you, the majority of civilians dont know shit about what a war is really like.

Alot of you think you know, because you sit in a chair watching watered down news. I have seen children in bits & pieces, who were targetted by the enemy because their town accepted foreign medical aid.

So dont pretend you know what a soldier goes through. Their reasons for serving or what war is really like. As I can guarantee you will be wrong 99 times out of 100

I can't imagine the horror of what you went through but you have my best wishes and support.

 

[kharma45]

fixed

Absolutely no need for that.

 

[Goodlife]

I don't know what you're like in real life but that was a shitty thing to do. You should apologise.

Oh give over.

An ex soldier who says "its time someone makes a stand" then tries to play the sympathy card (like only soldiers can lose people they know during wars) and tries to justify things by saying "civilians don't understand"

 

[Ding-Ding]

I don't know what you're like in real life but that was a shitty thing to do. You should apologise.

People like him dont apologise, nor would I want him to as it would be meaningless from someone like him.

He probable lives his life in video games. Thinking he knows about war because he played Call Of Duty.

Hell, if someone dies, it doesn't matter as its only a polygon

 

[Goodlife]

People like him dont apologise, nor would I want him to as it would be meaningless from someone like him.

He probable lives his life in video games. Thinking he knows about war because he played Call Of Duty.

Hell, if someone dies, it doesn't matter as its only a polygon

You just get better and better.

 

[hym]

Let the fucking Arab league bomb Syria.

The League of Arab Zombies.

Seriously, what's up with them? They keep buying shitloads of military hardware, but never actually use it (except against their own people) and cry for western intervention instead.

That equipment only serves as a deterrent for the West turning on their petrodollar “friends”.

Saudi Arabia's advanced "Peace Shield" radar and air defence system - reputed to be the most advanced radar network in the world.

The West couldn't even start a war with them if they wanted to and I'm certain many branches in intelligence considered it after 9/11.

 

[cyberheater]

Oh give over.

An ex soldier who says "its time someone makes a stand" then tries to play the sympathy card (like only soldiers can lose people they know during wars) and tries to justify things by saying "civilians don't understand"

That was a scummy thing to do and you know it.
That bloke risked his life for us. His friends have paid the ultimate price. For us.
Show some respect.

 

[Goodlife]

That was a scummy thing to do and you know it.
That bloke risked his life for us. His friends have paid the ultimate price. For us.
Show some respect.

It's a job, it's a choice. Granted, it's not one I want to do, but again, it's a choice, it's a job that pays well.
Talk to me about giving respect to those conscripted to the army, then I'll "show some respect"
Honest to fucking god.

 

[Kinky John]

Yeah, you can leave me out of that "for us" bollocks as well.

 

[SteveWD40]

That was a scummy thing to do and you know it.
That bloke risked his life for us. His friends have paid the ultimate price. For us.
Show some respect.

Although I get the feeling this thread is about to turn into a ban wasteland (calling people c**t is bannable for example), I must wade in and ask you tone down the love letter to the "heroes".

No soldier today is doing anything "for us", we are not at threat and only a fool would think we are, it's a job, a shitty one but one they volunteered for.

I have yet to hear how drone strikes / missile attacks are going to do anything beyond collateral damage, let's focus on that rather than "you weren't there man!" rhetoric and calling people "gaming nerds" on a gaming forum.

 

[kurtrussell]

.