PJV3
Member
Complete bollocks.
Cameron should have thought things through, divided nation, hung parliament and he didn't even check his own party.
embarrassing.
UK Parliament rejects use of military force in Syria
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Complete bollocks.
Cameron should have thought things through, divided nation, hung parliament and he didn't even check his own party.
embarrassing.
He only crawls out to post right wing rhetoric every time a thread like this shows up.
heliconsoul
Member
Keep banging that drum. It won't get tiring at all.
dapperbandit
Banned
Well going back to your "all becomes clear" post, you kind of implied that someone with military experience doesn't have a valid opinion.
Flatline
Banned
Oh for god's sake, stop sanctifying soldiers and demanding from other people to do the same. You're in an international forum, half the people here don't even know about America/UK's fetish with soldiers and many that do don't give a shit about it (I'm the later btw in case you're wondering).
You see this is where you dont know shit. Do you think soldiers dont know other soldiers killed. They are very tight knit communties. You dont know others that have been killed, then they must be a member of an army in a neutral country. If you also think that soldiers only witness death on a battlefield, think again.
And No, civilians by and large dont understand because they have not seen the things soldiers see. I also hope that the majority never have to because if you do, then the army has failed to do its job.
What pisses me off though is pieces of shit like you. Who live their lives in comfort yet fail to see that the comfort is protected by people they criticise
heliconsoul
Member
Please tell me how bombing Syria protects my comfort as a UK citizen? I think a few people in this thread need to take a five minute walk.
Good point, made well.
Fuck, Syria's going to invade the UK?
Flatline
Banned
Unless you fought in WWII you have never fought to protect Goodlife. You've fought to protect and expand national and corporate interests (nowadays so intertwined they're one and the same).
When you have 20,000 drone strikes and many of them hitting civilians, it's time to stop and think rather than rush into yet another war.
kurtrussell
Banned
Way to completely miss the point. This should not be a political decision. Every MP should have been given a free vote on an issue with this kind of gravity. For Labour to employ whips and force their MPs to vote along party lines demonstrates that they just wanted the opportunity to present a political front at a completely distasteful time.
Well: that, and the whoops, cheers and applause that were heard to be coming from the Labour whip's office. Which would have been right about the same time that school kids were having the flesh burnt off of their bodies in Syria.
jakonovski
Member
As a person who's done his mandatory national military service, I can safely say all military worshippers are full of shit. Being a soldier doesn't make anyone better (or worse).
It's like reading the comments on the Daily Mail talkback.
You don't have a greater insight in foreign policy and you didn't provide me with any freedoms. My Grandad might have, but unless your in your 80's...
Soldiers are told where to go and what to do and that's it, they don't make policy and there we have the problem with you taking some kind of moral high ground on this issue.
I would like you to explain how strikes will help, it's that simple, drone, cruise missile, air strikes, land invasion, tell me what the end game and exit strategy is.
Right now I see America desperate to unseat Assad, but why? because off the Russians? the pipeline? Do they really give a shit about Syrians? they didn't until they had the excuse of "chemical weapons" to wade in.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Ignoring the frankly pathetic image, is there any footage of Gove losing his shit?
PJV3
Member
jakonovski
Member
Does dropping a few bombs bring the kids back to life? Does it make the Syrians stop killing each other?
maquiladora
Member
The UN inspectors are in/on their way to Beirut airport and will have left by tonight. They weren't due to leave until Saturday so it seems things have moved forward a bit.
Would not be at all surprised to see a cruise missile strike happen overnight tonight.
Would not be at all surprised to see a cruise missile strike happen overnight tonight.
heliconsoul
Member
It's kind of hard to take your opinion seriously with rhetoric like that, good lord.
kurtrussell
Banned
Fuck is wrong with you? Point is there should have been NO whooping, cheering, celebrations etc and NO political pressure put on any MPs.
Why is that okay with you?
PJV3
Member
Because it doesn't fucking matter, you're making an issue out of fuck all, if it was a vote for war I could understand.
I'm happy with the result, you ain't.
Now this is just funny
"BBC Monitoring reports that Syrian TV has misquoted Labour leader Ed Miliband as saying the chemical attack near Damascus was the work of rebels. Government satellite news channel Al-Ikhbariyah al-Suriyah quoted Miliband as saying that he "fully understands" that it was "armed groups" (the usual government term for rebels) that used chemical weapons in the Ghouta."
And then AFP reports
" has just quoted state television saying that Syria will reject any "partial" UN report on alleged gas attacks."
That doesn't even look slightly guilty does it.
"BBC Monitoring reports that Syrian TV has misquoted Labour leader Ed Miliband as saying the chemical attack near Damascus was the work of rebels. Government satellite news channel Al-Ikhbariyah al-Suriyah quoted Miliband as saying that he "fully understands" that it was "armed groups" (the usual government term for rebels) that used chemical weapons in the Ghouta."
And then AFP reports
" has just quoted state television saying that Syria will reject any "partial" UN report on alleged gas attacks."
That doesn't even look slightly guilty does it.
heliconsoul
Member
Welcome to the House of Commons?
Surely if heavy political pressure was put on the parties why did so mant Tories vote against the party line?
Could it simply be that, and I know this might be shocking, the majority of MPs didn't agree with the case for action?
maquiladora
Member
Why do we send people who commit murder to prison?
Sending a murderer to prison doesn't bring the victim back to life, but it is seen as a just punishment for the crime and can send a message to people who might be tempted to commit murder that there is a cost. And it protects society from that criminal if they are still deemed as likely to offend again.
If a cruise missile strike will destroy part of Assad's delivery systems for these particular type of weapons, then yes, that has a direct impact on the future ability to kill Syrian people using those horrific weapons. And it sends a message to those forces that using those weapons leads to a price being paid.
Of course it's not going to fix the civil war, just like sending one murderer to jail doesn't fix all murders in a country.
jakonovski
Member
Punishing those responsible is not on the table, that would require a bloody invasion, thousands of peacekeepers and years of trials. Bombing a little just kills some soldiers and civilians and changes nothing. Bomb too much and you give victory to the other side and they will enact ethnic cleansing once they win.
In other words, this is not even remotely comparable to arresting Charles Manson. So please refrain from repeating the analogy.
edit: and to address the delivery system part, chemical weapons are commonly deployed by artillery. There are literally thousands of artillery pieces in the country and hundreds of small munitions dumps with chemical shells. Availability of weapons will not be an issue to Assad under any realistic circumstances.
His finest moment was when he blamed Hillsborough on the fans.
kurtrussell
Banned
Nope. It was because Labour employed whips in the vote and the coalition didn't.
kurtrussell
Banned
Show me proof I said that. When you can't find it, maybe you'd like to apologise for making shit up.
Mammoth Jones
Member
After going in on Iraq due to shady intel I can't blame em.
People are tired of war.
People are tired of war.
PJV3
Member
Labour the minority party had 30 MPs missing, Cameron fucked it up, he should have maybe checked in with his own MPs.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
He apportioned blame on them.
Even though it was systemic police failings coupled with press massaging to pretend it was the fans fault.
And that 3:15pm cut off point to again mask the actions of the police.
You're a bit of a joke.
kurtrussell
Banned
Why should he have done that? He should have given everyone a choice, unfettered by domestic political affiliation, which is what he did and Milliband didn't.
kurtrussell
Banned
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
do you understand the word catalyst?
Do you recognise the last part of your sentence?
Do you recognise the last part of your sentence?
PJV3
Member
He expected to win the vote, something went very wrong. I don't give a fuck.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
The Labour party reflecting the views of the British people.
kurtrussell
Banned
Yes - despite the fact you seem insistent on dragging this thread completely off-topic, I shall explain it to you very s-l-o-w-l-y:
The Liverpool fans WERE not the catalyst... ie they did not cause the Hillsborough disaster
However, there were some fans who impeded rescue efforts. Not all, and not to the extent of the "pickpocketing the dead" hyperbole that flew around, but there was an element there. Source: My brother, a Sheffield Wednesday fan who was present at the game.
So explain to me again how I was blaming the Hillsborough disaster on the fans?
kurtrussell
Banned
Of course you don't, because the end result of this unethical clusterfuck is to bury the news that the Coalition are well on the way to fixing the fucked-up-by-Labour economy.
jakonovski
Member
Wait, is Kurt suggesting that Cameron is a Labour double agent, burying the news like that?
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
I think we need to see what your brother has to say rather than hear it from a thatcher sycophant.
Considering we have documentary evidence of Liverpool fans doing their utmost to aid those injured. Including ambulance drivers going in. Disgusting to blame victims of one of the biggest police coverups in British history.
Would be like blaming a Syrian hospital for the deaths of the innocent because it didnt have enough ambulances.
The last I'll talk about it.
That hyperbole was the police influencing the biggest newspaper to misreport, deceive and slander the victims in order to deflect attention from police failings.
Just so we're completely clear.
Ill say this slowly, I'm a Londoner with no affiliation to Liverpool whatsoever.
Considering we have documentary evidence of Liverpool fans doing their utmost to aid those injured. Including ambulance drivers going in. Disgusting to blame victims of one of the biggest police coverups in British history.
Would be like blaming a Syrian hospital for the deaths of the innocent because it didnt have enough ambulances.
The last I'll talk about it.
That hyperbole was the police influencing the biggest newspaper to misreport, deceive and slander the victims in order to deflect attention from police failings.
Just so we're completely clear.
Ill say this slowly, I'm a Londoner with no affiliation to Liverpool whatsoever.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Precisely my point. Hence, he doesn't know what he's talking about.
So are the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats. Everyone was against this except the government.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Good on them for doing so.
"not blameless" = blame-worthy.
PJV3
Member
They weren't even against it totally, it was just about slowing down, double checking and not following an imaginary timetable.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Exactly! I'd bet that if David Cameron had presented a plan of how intervention would work, how he'd coordinate with international communities, how they would help out Syria in real terms, then then it would have passed the Commons.
Miles Quaritch
Member
nvm.
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